Synoid Gammacor Does Not Need Changes, It Is Already Balanced

[Magneu]

I think that the rakta ballistica (6 forma) are stronger now than synoid Gammacor

In raw numbers, it's close. However, the Rakta has mechanics that are much more awkward to use that balance it out.

[Faulcun]

i agree with what you are saying, but at some point you are probably going to get interested in doing things like long survivals or defense in the void or some such endeavors. 

 

it doesn't take long to figure out that fast-firing rifle starts having serious issues around 40 minutes with ammo consumption, or the mid-tier weapon isn't really killing things fast enough to stop you from taking too much damage, and so on and on. 

 

when people sit at that point of the game for a while they will start to recognize that only certain weapons and certain frames can really get the job done.    ...and then we get the overpowered/underpowered posts on the forums.

 

if the game ended at pluto, then sure, just about any weapon and frame in the game is perfectly fine if you max it out.  if only... 

 

But the reality of the situation is that the majority of players you might play with in recruiting chat cant even make it to 40 min no matter what frame or weapon they are using, at least not without camping in a tunnel or something. The people who beast past 40 waves or 40 min without cheesing it, are far and few between, but understand the real game behind all this DPS talk and nonsense.

 

To them, it doesnt matter what frame or weapon they use. Everything they bring into battle will work for them because of that deeper understanding. Every single frame especially, can get the job done effectively..... IF you take the time to learn it past pressing 4 to win.

 

The concept of nerfing this weapon is beyond the people who regular level 80+ enemies. The arguments here are mainly in target for those that cant. Which means this is about placing those people "in line" with what others deem to be the proper way to play. Granted, most of those people have no idea what they are doing or talking about, but thats also a DE problem. Perhaps more in depth tutorials or simulators for the dojo would help with education for the players.

[Davoodoo]

But the reality of the situation is that the majority of players you might play with in recruiting chat cant even make it to 40 min no matter what frame or weapon they are using, at least not without camping in a tunnel or something. The people who beast past 40 waves or 40 min without cheesing it, are far and few between, but understand the real game behind all this DPS talk and nonsense.

 

To them, it doesnt matter what frame or weapon they use. Everything they bring into battle will work for them because of that deeper understanding. Every single frame especially, can get the job done effectively..... IF you take the time to learn it past pressing 4 to win.

 

The concept of nerfing this weapon is beyond the people who regular level 80+ enemies. The arguments here are mainly in target for those that cant. Which means this is about placing those people "in line" with what others deem to be the proper way to play. Granted, most of those people have no idea what they are doing or talking about, but thats also a DE problem. Perhaps more in depth tutorials or simulators for the dojo would help with education for the players.

I call bullS#&$ on that really.

 

The same ppl who claim they dont care about weapons cant believe that you can do 40 waves of t4 def using mk1's and they are partially right, either you kill enemies fast enough or you need to disable them.

40 mins isnt high, 80lvl enemies still die under 2 seconds of sustained fire from anything that can do 15k dps.

 

There isnt some big mystery on how to be pro, all players depend heavily on gear and no amount of skill can replace mods in performance.

 

And no it isnt, you actually admitted yourself that this weapon is beyond anything that player should need and that is reason enough to call it op and nerf it, not even bacause its better than something else, but because its way above baseline.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Davoodoo

[Vaskadar]

Circular arguments in this thread.

 

It's gotten past the point of being helpful, to be honest.

 

This is my concise feedback.

 

The only way to really rein in the Synoid is to cut its range to 15-20 meters and increase its ammo consumption.

 

"A candle that burns twice as bright, burns half as long."

 

Aside from that, the Rakta is well-balanced because of its drawbacks to attain the high damage numbers.

 

There's really not much else to say. If a weapon is going to have such tremendous power, it should have drawbacks.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Vaskadar

[Davoodoo]

Circular arguments in this thread.

 

It's gotten past the point of being helpful, to be honest.

 

This is my concise feedback.

 

The only way to really rein in the Synoid is to cut its range to 15-20 meters and increase its ammo consumption.

 

"A candle that burns twice as bright, burns half as long."

 

Aside from that, the Rakta is well-balanced because of its drawbacks to attain the high damage numbers.

 

There's really not much else to say. If a weapon is going to have such tremendous power, it should have drawbacks.

Well for such little disadvantages as 15m range and manageable ammo economy it should have what?? 15% dps gain, thats top of what i could call fair.

 

For 47k dps, thrice of 15k baseline, it should have at best 5 range and 50rof.

 

 

Look at payday 2, not perfectly balanced but at least they try.

They introduced minigun, powerful weapon indeed.

But its inaccurate past few meters, spends ammo extremely quickly, slows you down by 40% and you cant get ammo pickups with it, meaning you need to use very limited ammo bags and even with whole team having them and all perks it will last maybe 30 mins for 1 single minigun with careful use.

 

You think that compared to that warframe weapon drawbacks are serious?? perfectly accurate gun with medium-long range and stupidly easily managable ammo have 2 times as much dps as best primary.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Davoodoo

[Adorable_Ookami_Momiji]

In raw numbers, it's close. However, the Rakta has mechanics that are much more awkward to use that balance it out.

 

And this is why I actually love the Rakta.

 

Powerful, but quite balanced.

 

Powerful charge shots that take out heavies; Burst fire for lower priority enemies, and is very nice for nullifier bubbles. 

 

Weird recoil that takes 'skill' to handle, but can also benefit your shooting of the burst fire into crowds. You have to aim properly to land the powerful charge shots anyways. Charge shot ragdolls enemies nicely and that can rack up additional kills too.

 

Can take out enemies at long range with either fire mode too, if you have good perspectives in 'leading' enemies.

 

In case of Synoid...I've seen people able to just hold the fire button, and spin in circles, or just hold it down and sweep across groups; The pure amount of damage it can do, can annihilate crowds even with no punchthrough. It hardly takes 'skill' to aim it properly. 

[HibikiGanaha]

Circular arguments in this thread.

 

It's gotten past the point of being helpful, to be honest.

 

This is my concise feedback.

 

The only way to really rein in the Synoid is to cut its range to 15-20 meters and increase its ammo consumption.

 

"A candle that burns twice as bright, burns half as long."

 

Aside from that, the Rakta is well-balanced because of its drawbacks to attain the high damage numbers.

 

There's really not much else to say. If a weapon is going to have such tremendous power, it should have drawbacks.

Which arguments have been circular?

 

The only person that has argued against the range argument with specific cases was Magneu.  It was enjoyable discussing our difference in opinion.  He ended up conceding that you might need ruinous extension in some scenarios (t4d with frost to hit guys behind the planters).  Everyone else has left the topic after I mention specific scenarios regarding range.

[BluelitHalo]

Everyone else has left the topic after I mention specific scenarios regarding range.

I believe you were arguing with me about range as well, and I don't think I ever bothered to reply back for some reason, so...

http://i.imgur.com/FA4erQll.jpg

From my Frost to that wall is 25 meters. That's not short at all. Short range is like Kohm's 10-meters where you're landing around 4-5 of 11 pellets.

[TylerFreeman]

I'm just gonna leave this here.

 

Weapon Changes:

• Synoid Gammacor now consumes 7.5x more ammunition.
• Synoid Gammacor magazine capacity has been reduced.

[Jinryusai]

Such a bizarre nerf.

 

Two things that achieve the same thing...

[Dogefighter]

*Grabs popcorn*

[Faulcun]

It still doesnt matter. People will just gravitate to the next  thing in line and we'll be right here again with the same old arguments talking about how you all are tired of seeing everybody using the same weapons all the time...

[Jinryusai]

It still doesnt matter. People will just gravitate to the next  thing in line and we'll be right here again with the same old arguments talking about how you all are tired of seeing everybody using the same weapons all the time...

The irony is, I rarely saw people with this weapon. Wonder why.

[Absens]

*Insert evil laugh here*

[f3llyn]

The irony is, I rarely saw people with this weapon. Wonder why.

 

Me either. I've played quite a bit the last 3 or 4 days. Maybe 5 hours or so a day. In that time I've seen maybe 2 or 3 people a day using it.

[Jinryusai]

Me either. I've played quite a bit the last 3 or 4 days. Maybe 5 hours or so a day. In that time I've seen maybe 2 or 3 people a day using it.

But a whole lot of Bolters...

[Pizzarugi]

Once you go brakk, you never go back.

In the beginning, there was the brakk, only the brakk. When the synoid gammacor was born and raised, the brakk became forgotten. But no matter what weapons come, what weapons go, there will be the brakk. Only the brakk.

Synoid gammacor needs both a mutation mod and the pistol scavenger aura to compensate for its nerf. That has got to be the most ammo-guzzling weapon I've had in a long time. Its usefulness in the endgame has plummeted to nothing.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Pizzarugi

[Faulcun]

*Insert evil laugh here*

 

It actually is funny.... cause the problem isnt fixed. Its like changing your oil in order to fix a flat tire....

[Reaver_X]

#RipSynoid

[Gr33hn]

That has got to be the most ammo-guzzling weapon I've had in a long time. Its usefulness in the endgame has plummeted to nothing.

 

I dont own it any more so I cant try but how does the Synoid Gammacores ammo economy compare to Dex Furis/Secura Dual Cestras?

Edited March 20, 2015 by VikingoX

[FollowTheFaceless]

If Kohm before swallows all ammo in seconds ... now we have a new leader.

 

#RipSynoid

[Davoodoo]

So weapon which now actually uses ammo and can still do 30k dps with only 7 mods, leaving place for ammo mutation because why not is now considered bad??

Edited March 20, 2015 by Davoodoo

[HibikiGanaha]

I believe you were arguing with me about range as well, and I don't think I ever bothered to reply back for some reason, so...

http://i.imgur.com/FA4erQll.jpg

From my Frost to that wall is 25 meters. That's not short at all. Short range is like Kohm's 10-meters where you're landing around 4-5 of 11 pellets.

Short is an arbitrary term.  When I use the term short I am talking about in context of the game and how it is not long enough to play without having to get closer.  There are plenty of situations where 25m is not sufficient to hit enemies.  If you skim through some of my previous posts, you will find some of them.  That screenshot does not disprove anything.  Every gun in the game can hit from that range with the exception of a few beam weapons and the embolist.  Those ranges don't matter on non-endless modes since nothing goes past level 40.  The ranges matter on endless modes like survival, defense, and excavation.  Defense and Excavation are the prime examples since you can't choose where to camp on those maps.

 

Unrelated to responding to your post, I don't think the Synoid is viable anywhere anymore.  I more than likely won't be testing the new gammacor since I stopped using the weapon when I made this thread, but now it seems mediocre within it's range and bad outside it's range.  This change doesn't phase me, but I will stop responding to this topic until I have an informed opinion on the changed gun.

[Mr._Clean]

Went from being one of the best secondary's to one of the worst. Congratulation DE you ruined yet another promising, usable weapon.

 

Why not just throw every weapon but the 4-5 good ones in the game in the Vault. No one uses them once they level them so there's no point n keeping them right? Everyone has Frost Prime so let's just stash him away never to be seen again.

 

I used to be so proud of this game a year ago. Now the friends I still have who play it sob every time a new update comes around to see what gets nerfed/broken and those who stopped playing it altogether just laugh at me when I tell them I still play it.

 

#BestContentWastingSimulator2015

#RipSynoid

Edited March 20, 2015 by Mr._Clean

[RealPandemonium]

I used to be so proud of this game a year ago.

Yeah, before the powercreep started really getting crazy.  Proud of what, again?