Neogeo Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 I had said my piece in the other thread as to why I oppose AH. AH could work under certain restrictions. Limit the trading to only resource, cosmetic item, arcane helmet, syndicate reward and void keys. In short, only allow stuff that have little impact to a player power or stuff that can easily farm by everyone like syndicate reward. Please for the love of god, don't put prime item and mods on AH. That would be an instant disaster. There's a reason high end gear cannot be trade in other mmo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davoodoo Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 I had said my piece in the other thread as to why I oppose AH. AH could work under certain restrictions. Limit the trading to only resource, cosmetic item, arcane helmet, syndicate reward and void keys. In short, only allow stuff that have little impact to a player power or stuff that can easily farm by everyone like syndicate reward. Please for the love of god, don't put prime item and mods on AH. That would be an instant disaster. There's a reason high end gear cannot be trade in other mmo. Too late for that, since best gear can already be bought from other players and even de. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neogeo Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Too late for that, since best gear can already be bought from other players and even de. Yes through limited trading window. It's different than having a system up 24/7 ready to give out end game gear to the player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StinkyPygmy Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 (edited) I have had enough... I can't find good prices for anything in trade anymore! Why? Because many dishonest sellers only sell to new players who don't know any better. The reason why this is a problem is because now many people can't afford the prices because these sellers just tell you to F off. A player market should be introduced to give competition for cheaper prices ! and if a seller wants to make plat the will have to compete and this will keep price stable and HONEST. PLUSSSSS it can be INSTANT and you can set up items to sell and leave them for others to buy quick ! :D PLEASE DE :D The prices are honest... Its a free market. Thats pretty much what a free market is. Sure, people do try and take advantage of new players. But ultimately thats the nature of a free market. The buyer decides the price. People wouldn't be selling things for what is widely regarded as obscene prices if people weren't buying. You can't actually be dishonest in a free market unless you scam someone. The definition of scam in this instance being not receiving the goods/plat agreed upon. Trade needs an overhaul, but its not because some people set what you might consider unfair prices in a free market. Thats not how economics works. Did I mention its a free market? Free market. Edited February 28, 2015 by StinkyPygmy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davoodoo Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Yes through limited trading window. It's different than having a system up 24/7 ready to give out end game gear to the player. https://warframe.com/prime-access 24/7 GAIN INSTANT ACCESS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neogeo Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 https://warframe.com/prime-access 24/7 GAIN INSTANT ACCESS Obviously, there more gear than prime access offer in warframe. Did you see mod being sell in prime access? Don't turn this into DE selling overpower gear which is not true by far. Besides, two wrong don't make one right. You arr obviously offended by my reply to you in the other thread. There's a reason I don't reply anymore in that thread, because I know you would get personal and focus on the person rather than the issue. I'm going to said this to you again and this will be my last reply to you. I'm not interested in another forum pissing contest. Go back to trading channel and spend time like everyone else to get your gear. Don't always think of taking shortcut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davoodoo Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 (edited) Obviously, there more gear than prime access offer in warframe. Did you see mod being sell in prime access? Don't turn this into DE selling overpower gear which is not true by far. Besides, two wrong don't make one right. You arr obviously offended by my reply to you in the other thread. There's a reason I don't reply anymore in that thread, because I know you would get personal and focus on the person rather than the issue. I'm going to said this to you again and this will be my last reply to you. I'm not interested in another forum &!$$ing contest. Go back to trading channel and spend time like everyone else to get your gear. Don't always think of taking shortcut. De also sells mods, they also sell r5 cores to lvl them up, every piece of gear except for first clantech and synd weapons can be bought off de. Ah wont change anything, all it will do is make prices reasonable, which is already true for trading but its just inconvienient, players actually know the value of their money and time and thats why you can buy prime frame from players for 5$ while regular costs 20$ on market. De prices are just insane, players would gladly pay for that stuff if prices were lower and that shows the strength of trading and ah, when players decide how much stuff is worth then it sells just fine, de doesnt want to make ah with premium currency since it would clearly undercut their profits. Im not getting offended, ppl which i argue with the most are usually the ones who also agree with me on many topics. If you believe that my constant support of ah is due to your response to one of my threads or posts then believe so, i cant stop you. I have nothing more of value to get from trading, i know how much it takes to get that gear. Trade channel is as much shortcut as ah, ah is simply more convienient. Edited February 28, 2015 by Davoodoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkBabylon Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 With all honesty I would like you to take a look at this site: http://wftrading.net/ This site bases an average trade price on the market. They usually tend to be lower than what the site claims. This is my most handy tool to give myself a range of good price to look for, and to offer for more players. But honestly I have like 2.5k platinum on my hands, I really don't think I can contribute a mind set to the topic other than that. Although I do agree a double status mod that is sold for 150p is too much, unless it was a mod that you can't get anymore, but has a fairly huge amount on the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davoodoo Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 With all honesty I would like you to take a look at this site: http://wftrading.net/ This site bases an average trade price on the market. They usually tend to be lower than what the site claims. This is my most handy tool to give myself a range of good price to look for, and to offer for more players. But honestly I have like 2.5k platinum on my hands, I really don't think I can contribute a mind set to the topic other than that. Although I do agree a double status mod that is sold for 150p is too much, unless it was a mod that you can't get anymore, but has a fairly huge amount on the market. Thats exactly what most of us wants to get rid. External site ran by 3rd party which isnt constantly updated and offers false and manipulated info. On ah you can monitor that stuff easily, wftrading allows 3rd party to manipulate market and isnt supervised by anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMelody Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 I have had enough... I can't find good prices for anything in trade anymore! Why? Because many dishonest sellers only sell to new players who don't know any better. The reason why this is a problem is because now many people can't afford the prices because these sellers just tell you to F off. A player market should be introduced to give competition for cheaper prices ! and if a seller wants to make plat the will have to compete and this will keep price stable and HONEST. PLUSSSSS it can be INSTANT and you can set up items to sell and leave them for others to buy quick ! :D PLEASE DE :D So if you are suggesting an auction system I say "+1"Also we should have a selling trade system where prices for gear are already set to a flat amount of plat so there is a steady price for a given item, no extortion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[DE]Momaw Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 agree a double status mod that is sold for 150p is too much I wouldn't be willing to pay that much for it. But obviously somebody is, because if they weren't selling, then people wouldn't be expecting to get that much. I think there's some kind of fundamental disconnect here, for people that don't understand how trade chat works. The seller doesn't set the prices. They may set how much they want, which is obviously some obscene number, because who doesn't like having lots of wealth. No; it's the buyer who sets the prices, because ultimately it is the buyer who completes the transaction. If the buyers say the price is too high, then the seller's asking price goes down until somebody agrees with it and makes the deal. So if you are somebody that says "the prices in trade chat are too high!", then really what you are saying is "other people are willing to pay more for the same things I want!". You are bidding against other players, and you got outbid. That's not the sellers being "evil", that's just good business. Don't point your accusatory finger at the people who have goods and sell them, rather point it at the people who keep affirming the high prices. Like the guy who said he gave up trying to buy a max Serration for 250 and instead offered 600. Now whoever sold that is thinking "Well gosh, people are willing to pay 600 for this! I need to keep asking this much!". He may not sell it as fast, but now you have taught him that his patience exceeds yours and he'll get twice the money if he just waits for somebody to get frustrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMelody Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Talair put it best in the other thread. Warframe drop tables are not built to support an Auction House. Why? Item Rarity. If an Auction House system were put in Warframe, this is what we would see on it: Common items (Warm Coat, Point Blank, etc) would be worth 1p. Uncommon items (Serration, Hornet Strike, etc) would be worth 1p. Rare items (Hell's Chamber, Ammo Mutations, Sanctuary, etc) would be worth 2 or 3p. Discontinued Items (Ultra Rare) (Primed Chamber, Legendary Core) would be worth 500 - 10,000p. 99% of items are simply not that rare. The current system masks this by making it difficult to buy/sell items (you have to talk with the person, meet them in-game, etc). An Auction House system would flood the market with all these mods which are not truly rare. The prices would be SO LOW, many players would probably end up just buying up everything in the game. It would be worse than the Diablo III Auction House fiasco. This would not only be a bad idea, but it would actually hurt new / free players the most. Yes, you could buy items on the cheap, but good luck selling that Thunderbolt mod you just found - it used to sell for 4-10p, but it (like 99% of everything else) now only sells for 1p. Economy Broken. my bad last time I checked "rare" items were RARE and there is a system that doe support auction especially because rarity as well as max rank of a mod can be taken into accountBronze mods are most definitely the easiest, gold mods most definatley harder to obtain, and HELL YES limited time mods like primed mods should cost a good amount. Like they would in other games. You shouldn't be allowed to short cut they a game and but some of the new things for cheap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NocturneOfSolace Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 (edited) I'm always amused by posts like this. Setting a high price isn't a scam, regardless of how easy/difficult an item is to obtain. It may make you quiver with impotent e-rage, but simply stating a number does not constitute some sort of gross misrepresentation. Putting it into perspective, most of the people that conveniently have only 25% less plat that whatever I'm charging are far more deceptive than the guy spamming chat with "WTS Buzz Kill 800p" Definition of scam: A fraudulent business scheme; a swindle. By definition, deliberately setting a high price and then taking advantage of someone who doesn't know better, because, while yes they're an idiot and they should have done their research is... Guess what, a scam, a cheat, shady, that's how scammers work, they look for people too dumb to know any better So while I'm not defending the other guys point, I am going to point out, that you cannot claim you were not being dishonest. So if you are somebody that says "the prices in trade chat are too high!", then really what you are saying is "other people are willing to pay more for the same things I want! Inaccurate, I see it happen all the time where people set outrageous prices and...surprise surprise, unless they get lucky and there's some rich sucker, no one buys from them. Edited February 28, 2015 by NocturneOfSolace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkBabylon Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Thats exactly what most of us wants to get rid. External site ran by 3rd party which isnt constantly updated and offers false and manipulated info. On ah you can monitor that stuff easily, wftrading allows 3rd party to manipulate market and isnt supervised by anyone. Dunno, it's info is rather logical to me. Although if we could more sites like these, it could provide a good non-permanent solution for the time being until a better one is found. and false manipulated info? Can you provide a good source of indication this site is manipulating and providing false info? In any way there is no way to find a good price, not even writing "price check <item>" in any chat, not to mention spam-wall of advertisements of people selling stuff. This is the only source we could have, other than the forums, which really I don't see a section or people who put auctions on anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkBabylon Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Don't point your accusatory finger at the people who have goods and sell them, rather point it at the people who keep affirming the high prices. Like the guy who said he gave up trying to buy a max Serration for 250 and instead offered 600. Now whoever sold that is thinking "Well gosh, people are willing to pay 600 for this! I need to keep asking this much!". He may not sell it as fast, but now you have taught him that his patience exceeds yours and he'll get twice the money if he just waits for somebody to get frustrated. Lets not accuse me for saying people being evil as well because I haven't said such a thing, that's a first. I get what you mean. But then again 150p for a silly mod is OBJECTIVELY too high if a loki prime set is around a hundred something platinum at most. In principle the market goes like this: The more money the community as a whole has, the more devalued it is. The rarer the mods are, the more money they worth. Of course other factors play into it, such as as you said the buyer's patience. If too many people do it, then yes it becomes a huge factor. If the people however would prefer to farm instead of a higher price, this might help out. I also see you ready to toss bombs at me for mentioning it, but if we are talking about new players, they shouldn't be interested at the market in the first place. But like a good business and market, it needs regulation, because if a seller is allowed to even treat players like that. I might be bombed to say the following as well, but: An auction house COULD potentially fix a lot of these problems because the main regulation would be the collective unconscious which will be formed by people who prefer to sell more for less to win against others, but having lack of experience of how much bad can it bring I will not suggest it personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davoodoo Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Dunno, it's info is rather logical to me. Although if we could more sites like these, it could provide a good non-permanent solution for the time being until a better one is found. and false manipulated info? Can you provide a good source of indication this site is manipulating and providing false info? In any way there is no way to find a good price, not even writing "price check <item>" in any chat, not to mention spam-wall of advertisements of people selling stuff. This is the only source we could have, other than the forums, which really I don't see a section or people who put auctions on anywhere. Most of the time yes the info is more or less accurate. Yet all it takes for this site to manipulate market is to put different price than accepted, due to ppl believing this site it will quickly match price put on site whether they raise it or lower it. It takes just a few ppl undercutting or buying what they believe is "cheap" to change prices on market, rest will simply catch up to these few believers. And thats why info is more or less accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phezzan Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 I have had enough... I can't find good prices for anything in trade anymore! Why? Because many dishonest sellers only sell to new players who don't know any better. I guess we should get you to write us out a list of prices. Remember to update it every half-hour as trade chat churns quickly. Most people don't sit in trade, advertising the same giant list of mods for 5p. It's boring, no one reads that wall of text, and almost everyone has all those mods. That rare guy who does is probably going to flake out after 2 minutes because "someone just offered it for 4p". "Evil" sellers who only want to find a 'whale' sit in trade chat for hours hoping that maybe one of these 1000 plat behemoths will leave the official market and brave the dark waters of the trade channel in order to get a "better deal". and if a seller wants to make plat the will have to compete and this will keep price stable and HONEST. ? Honest ? Do you know the difference between fraud and volatility? Fraud is when you lie about what you're selling. That's just not possible because Warframe's trade interface doesn't allow shenanigans. Volatility is when the price responds to changes in supply and demand. Bubbles are not fraud. God forbid you should ever try to buy a house. PLEASE DE :D BEG HARDER, because being dishonest typing a 30 second complaint on the forums is 'better' than a bunch of 'dishonest' sellers sitting in trade chat all day. 150p for a silly mod is OBJECTIVELY too high ... Value is subjective, therefore what price is 'too high' is also entirely subjective. 3 cents x 150 platinum is $4.50 Feel free to forget that fact when you go buy a Krazy Taco 'value meal' for $6 after a half hour to grind 20 cents worth of plat. I'll go make myself a sandwich and buy the mod for $4.50 thanks. The problem is everyone has different opinions on what items are worth Exactly. I trade a little bit, and I basically respond to "WTB" with what I think are reasonable prices. Back when I selling my second Marelok I was told that the price for a Marelok 'should' be less than 20p because eventually everyone will have one and it'll be worthless. Eventually we'll all be dead. Everything will be worthless. Time is Money. Status symbols are valuable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kindness Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 I'm glad sanity has not entirely abandoned this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aynn Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 (edited) prices are determined by supply and demand. new prime comes out, not enough supply and prices are sky high with about each price fetching 100p each. old primes sell for so low maybe around 30p now. 1 more thing. impatient people like the one above who paid 600p for serration are paying to save time. if he had more patience he could have bought max serration for under 250p. I like impatient buyers and sellers, i can get a huge discount or i can make a lot of plat :) Edited March 1, 2015 by aynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StinkyPygmy Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 (edited) I wouldn't be willing to pay that much for it. But obviously somebody is, because if they weren't selling, then people wouldn't be expecting to get that much. I think there's some kind of fundamental disconnect here, for people that don't understand how trade chat works. The seller doesn't set the prices. They may set how much they want, which is obviously some obscene number, because who doesn't like having lots of wealth. No; it's the buyer who sets the prices, because ultimately it is the buyer who completes the transaction. If the buyers say the price is too high, then the seller's asking price goes down until somebody agrees with it and makes the deal. So if you are somebody that says "the prices in trade chat are too high!", then really what you are saying is "other people are willing to pay more for the same things I want!". You are bidding against other players, and you got outbid. That's not the sellers being "evil", that's just good business. Don't point your accusatory finger at the people who have goods and sell them, rather point it at the people who keep affirming the high prices. Like the guy who said he gave up trying to buy a max Serration for 250 and instead offered 600. Now whoever sold that is thinking "Well gosh, people are willing to pay 600 for this! I need to keep asking this much!". He may not sell it as fast, but now you have taught him that his patience exceeds yours and he'll get twice the money if he just waits for somebody to get frustrated. Exactly. Alas a lot pf players and posters in this thread don;t understand economics and how it works in relation to a free market. Theres no such thing as being scammed in a free market, as long as you receive what you agreed upon and the deal is carried through fully. Just like theres no such thing as spreading false prices or info. I mean people can lie about what the general, average price something is going for is, but thats not exactly manipulation 101. Those kind of assertions are all estimates in the first place. Point and case, theres no evil sellers in a free market. People that you may want to laugh at for suggesting what you regard as an obscene high price, sure. But at worse someone can only be defined as being an asshat in trade based off them being rude. At the end of the day in a free market the consumerbase sets the price and bartering reigns supreme. People wouldn't be selling stuff for 100P etc if there wasn't people buying for that price. Knowing how to barter will save you so much plat. Anyone with any brains when it comes to such tends to offer much high prices when selling then they expect to get or want because they are counting on the buyer talking the price down and thus making the buyer think they are getting a better deal, when really they offered the price the seller was looking for. If not then the buyer ends up paying more then they could have because they couldn't be bothered bartering or because surprisingly the price was acceptable to them. Eitherway, everyone still gets what they want and no one is hurt. Thats the nature of a free market. Hek, any of you ever been to bali? The locals actually get disappointed if you don't barter with them, despite the fact they might be getting more money if you just buy something at the first price suggested. TL;DR: A lot of the WF playerbase doesn't understand basic economics or the nature of supply/demand vs a free market. Edited March 1, 2015 by StinkyPygmy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackNeutron Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 "That moment when you know your prime parts is more valuable for ducats rather than sell it for plats to other players." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)SofeSNBR Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 I think trade should be changed. If anyone have played pokemon X/Y and pokemon omega ruby/sapphire there is simple trade system. You can either type name of pokemon you want or just search them from first letter of name list. After you either typed or found pokemon you want from list. Game opens up list of traders of that pokemon and shows what they want for it. This trade can be done if said player is offline or wont even play game anymore. If you want to trade something, just drop pokemon for trade and add what you want for it and your traded pokemon appears automatically there as soon someone is traded. Its fast, simple and working mechanic. Wont cut off scam though, as many wants lvl90 legendary for lvl1 charmander. I would suggest same kinda mechanic, but add limit there what you can demand for trade. Calcuate it somehow. This way you can just look up what you want and get the one wich is most desirable "offer" for you and get item without having that trader be active or even online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarozian Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 I have had enough... I can't find good prices for anything in trade anymore! Why? Because many dishonest sellers only sell to new players who don't know any better. The reason why this is a problem is because now many people can't afford the prices because these sellers just tell you to F off. A player market should be introduced to give competition for cheaper prices ! and if a seller wants to make plat the will have to compete and this will keep price stable and HONEST. PLUSSSSS it can be INSTANT and you can set up items to sell and leave them for others to buy quick ! :D PLEASE DE :D This 100%. If there is competition the prices will drop without some silly player-made website trying to control the prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerrorofDeaths Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 we need just markeplace where we can put items for selling thats all not some trading chat window Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwenwed Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 My two cents to this discussion Cent 1: if people arent smart enough vs scams, thats their own problem. I wont hold their hand to cross the street. Thats Natural Selection to me. Cent 2: this is a GAME. I want to PLAY the game. Ive been spending way too much time buying and selling stuff in other Games. So what would be great is a place, like hubs, where buying and selling is easy and fast. Not in the Liset though. In a hub. That would make them more useful. What DE are worried about is the effect such an AH would have on their own platinum selling. I think it would increase, personally. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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