Evil Traders De Please Its Time For A New Trade System

[nmuaddib]

Sorry, Freelancer, but I think trading is something that you should welcome, specially as a working father that does not have 8h a day to grind on a f2p. It is there, not so a guy that does not give a damn can get the same as a real player, but to even the RNG odds a little. I work all week, and I have a wife and kid, I got most of my mods farming, I even got a full Detron just grinding to get a freaking stance mod, but when trading came along, I was more than glad to be able to sell things I find and don't use, and even more it allowed me to get things I would anyway, but instead of wasting hundreds of extra hours on it (which I rather spend with my family, or playing the game the way I want, no the way I have to), it took me a few plats bought on a 75% discount bonus.

When you have to spend several thousand hours grinding to get what it takes to play a game properly, it is not entertainment anymore, is a full blown day job, it does not matter if it is f2p.

[nmuaddib]

The entire premise of being able to trade premium currency in this or other F2P games that do it, is that the overwhelming majority of people have either time or money. People with time serve as content accelerators for people with money, and the game survives.

...

 

Perfectly stated.

 

DE has a business, a lot of people get happy, from the teen kid that has tons of time, to the parent that has none and can spare some coin every now an then.

[KorbanGado]

I don't know if it should be specifically a standard MMO tradehouse, maybe something more along the lines of standardized store fronts - to keep people from needing to constantly retype what they have a billion times. This way players could "store" their items in the so-called store front (or sales kiosk, whatevs) that could be accessed either from the ship or a relay or something, and other players could go to them to access.

Really, it just needs to be easier to find/list things than it is right now - That trade chat can move as fast as a Devstream Twitch chat. Prices i've seen are generally pretty fair - if I think it's too high, I just wait for prices to go down. There's always someone who has something they don't want, and when people tend to offer something i was rather interested in for cheap I've been known to throw in "tips" ontop of the asking price. Why? Cause if it's something I'm going to spend real money on, than it means it's something that I would have to farm forever to get, because I have terrible RNG luck, and I'm just glad I can skip that grind to get the part and this person isn't charging me out the but for it. That being said, I feel like WFTrading does a decent job getting prices, as most the time that's what I see people listing stuff at - granted, I don't frequent the trade channel too much - that thing scrolls way to fast to stay up to date and still read it imo.

[nmuaddib]

I think it is funny to see people that got RNG luck, and state they worked hard for EVERYTHING, and they hate the ones who cut corners by trading and buying plat. Don't tell me how hard you worked when I know that, eventually, you got it way easier than most have. Hell, I have seen people saying that Zanuka does not exists, and I had a full detron farmed in less than a week, I was not even doing invasion for it, I was looking for an stance, I just got lucky. Did I work hard? No. Do I want to be the only one that has a Detron? Hell no, let the other guy get it in a trade and enjoy it.

If anybody asks me, is there a problem with the game? I would answer yes, there are people that spend thousands of hours in it, and then they get bitter, they think they are special or better because "they worked hard for it". BS.

[(PSN)Kish_Lat]

heated charge sold for 200p. not even maxed. not even primed.

[[DE]Momaw]

heated charge sold for 200p. not even maxed. not even primed.

 

If true, that is an example of how to be a stupid buyer... Not an example of why trading is broken.

[Jylon]

it takes a long time hanging in trade chat to know the general true range of prices of what things are worth for real at this stage of warframe, i am out of the loop on a lot nowadays.  all i know any more are items for syndicate leveling which are also used for better prime stuffs tend to be the most in costs, besides very rare event mods/stances and newest prime frames.  it is only worsened now that some are using the rare parts just for the 50-ducat sell price.

 

then we have the completionists overpricing everything to sell so they can buy every marketplace thing and the "endgame" activities for many include the trade chat game of seeing what one can get away with for their own sense of fun  XP

 

the only real lasting complaint in my experience is the trade chat itself where sellers are posting 6 lines of no-spaced items that are scrolling by at 100 kph.  i don;t even bother to try and read those any more.  x..x

[Cpl_Facehugger]

The supply is definitely there for the demand. In terms of duplicates compared to people, the prime parts and non-exclusive mods markets are saturated. It's entirely the annoyance of going to trade chat that keeps prices at a reasonable level.

 

The ducat grind is constantly reducing supply though.

And if a race to the bottom is the big fear, why not simply have DE set a reasonable price floor?

[xCaptainObviousx]

I doubt that the prices would crash to 1p. If the value of an item drops too low, people will just sell them for ducats, removing it from the market.

[Herosupport]

Its time for DE to implement the auction house where players can buy and sell things from from the comfort of their own ship.

[(PSN)LoneWolf_001]

Auction houses would increase trade and make it easier to do so. However, it would not prevent hoarding or overpricing. Plat sharks will always hold all the cards...

[HandsomeSorcerer]

a seller can sell at any price he/she desires. Its just the reality of it if people really want it they will buy it. A dude bought a dual status mod off me for 150p im not going to be the one to tell him not to give me so much. thats the name of the trading game. if people dont want to be suckerd you do the research. same in real life with games. Dont pre order do your research ect...

Kinda amaizing how scammers like you are proud of their deeds.

I mean last valentines day, scammers went batS#&$, selling thermite rounds for 100 or 200 plat and the chat was full of people bragging about scams.

At that point, I went on to tell everyone that in the chat that it was a scam.

There is nothing more satistfying than ruining a scam. Really,that was worth so nuch. The schadenfreude! Pure satisfaction!

Edited February 28, 2015 by HandsomeSorcerer

[fatpig84]

Heh when Rhino Prime parts were first released, people sold them at 100+ plat a piece.

Now ?

You can get a full Rhino Prime set for under 30p if you bother to look.

This is how the market works.

[Kindness]

Kinda amaizing how scammers like you are proud of their deeds.

I mean last valentines day, scammers went batS#&$, selling thermite rounds for 100 or 200 plat and the chat was full of people bragging about scams.

At that point, I went on to tell everyone that in the chat that it was a scam.

There is nothing more satistfying than ruining a scam. Really,that was worth so nuch. The schadenfreude! Pure satisfaction!

 

 

I'm always amused by posts like this.  Setting a high price isn't a scam, regardless of how easy/difficult an item is to obtain.  It may make you quiver with impotent e-rage, but simply stating a number does not constitute some sort of gross misrepresentation.  Putting it into perspective, most of the people that conveniently have only 25% less plat that whatever I'm charging are far more deceptive than the guy spamming chat with "WTS Buzz Kill 800p"

[Marnus]

The actual selling mechanisme are pefectly fine as they are. In general the prices are fair.

The price of the items diminish with times, and the fact that the market is quickly saturated.

 

please NO auction house or similar mechanism!!!

 

On another hand, the price of the void traders should seriously re-thinked.

Edited February 28, 2015 by Marnus

[HandsomeSorcerer]

I'm always amused by posts like this. Setting a high price isn't a scam, regardless of how easy/difficult an item is to obtain. It may make you quiver with impotent e-rage, but simply stating a number does not constitute some sort of gross misrepresentation. Putting it into perspective, most of the people that conveniently have only 25% less plat that whatever I'm charging are far more deceptive than the guy spamming chat with "WTS Buzz Kill 800p"

Not necessarily when the item was/is freely available as an easy misson reward that isnt an event.

Edited February 28, 2015 by HandsomeSorcerer

[Kindness]

Not necessarily when the item was/is freely available as an easy misson reward that isnt an event.

 

You still have still failed to address how an unaltered price is deceptive.

 

Show your work.

Edited February 28, 2015 by Kindness

[Similon]

I kinda don't understand why people defend the current trade chat.

It's slow, it's clunky, it facilitates deceit. Very good if you want to pray on the ill informed, remarkably bad if you want to buy an item. Most of the people in there just advertise and wait for a response. While it is funny to watch Persons A & B shouting "WTB Genericore, 20P" & "WTS Genericore, 20p" for 4 hours without spotting each other, it is indicative of a problem, not just in their psyche. 

 

Speaking of people with mental issues, my brother flat out refuses to use trade chat despite the fact he really wants to trade. Partially for the reasons above, but also because he doesn't want to communicate with people he doesn't know.

 

I've found the only way to reliably buy an item in trade chat in a timely manner is to offer to ridiculously overpay.
I was looking for a maxed serration a while ago, and posts of "wtb serration, maxed" were mostly ignored. 

"WTB Serration, maxed, 250p" also ignored

"WTB Serration, maxed, 600p" And suddenly 15 people realised they actually did want to sell theirs!

 

So now if nobody is offering what I want, I just start offering double the going rate and work up from there, so I don't have to wait around for hours.

 

An Auction house, if done properly (like they are in most games) would allow you to simply go and buy the thing you want. Sure, you couldn't try and talk people into selling you that Maxed heavy Cal for 25 plat, but I don't see that as a bad thing.

And people worried about it devaluing items? 

a) Who cares? If you don't want to sell it that cheap, don't sell it that cheap. Eventually the cheaper things will run out, or you're simply way overcharging.

b) If it's anything like every other game I've traded in, as supply drops, value increases massively. (600,000,000 credit Bug Boats in STO anyone?)

 

The only problem that springs to mind is that if it's on an individual item basis, people will have no choice but to overcharge for fusion cores.

[Kindness]

I kinda don't understand why people defend the current trade chat.

 

Talair put it best in the other thread.

 

Warframe drop tables are not built to support an Auction House.

 

Why? Item Rarity.

 

If an Auction House system were put in Warframe, this is what we would see on it:

 

Common items (Warm Coat, Point Blank, etc) would be worth 1p.

Uncommon items (Serration, Hornet Strike, etc) would be worth 1p.

Rare items (Hell's Chamber, Ammo Mutations, Sanctuary, etc) would be worth 2 or 3p.

Discontinued Items (Ultra Rare) (Primed Chamber, Legendary Core) would be worth 500 - 10,000p.

 

99% of items are simply not that rare. The current system masks this by making it difficult to buy/sell items (you have to talk with the person, meet them in-game, etc). An Auction House system would flood the market with all these mods which are not truly rare.

 

The prices would be SO LOW, many players would probably end up just buying up everything in the game.

 

It would be worse than the Diablo III Auction House fiasco.

 

This would not only be a bad idea, but it would actually hurt new / free players the most. Yes, you could buy items on the cheap, but good luck selling that Thunderbolt mod you just found - it used to sell for 4-10p, but it (like 99% of everything else) now only sells for 1p.

 

Economy Broken.

 

 

Edited February 28, 2015 by Kindness

[Kihana]

I'm wondering why they don't collect the data on sales and prices (they collect data on a lot of other stuff), extrapolate some kind of moving average for each salable item, and put up a page on this website graphing each items sales prices over time.

 

Even if they don't change anything else, they could at least give people the data to educate themselves with. This would still leave room for the pro traders to buy low and sell high, whilst combating a lack of knowledge amongst the newer players and those that trade less.

[Similon]

 

Talair put it best in the other thread.

 

...snip...

This only happens if the people selling decide to sell for such low prices. 

 

Again, going by the rates in STO (since it's the only game I spent much time in trading), most things were fairly expensive for a casual player. Things in high demand were a lot more expensive, things that there were lots of were still expensive. Why? Because people still want to make a profit. If you don't want to sell your Hell's chamber for 2p, don't list it for 2p. Sure, people will undercut your prices and it'll take you a little bit longer to sell things, but once the cheap stuff is gone, yours will be all that's left.

 

In STO, if somebody listed something for notably less than the usual going rate ,generally fairly quickly it was bought and relisted at the going rate. The prices were normally set within a few hours of an item being introduced and didn't fluctuate much without some major interruption.

 

Now, I'm not saying the Warframe community would be that responsible when it comes to trading, but if the sellers let the market break, it's there own damn fault.

I mostly like the fact I wouldn't have to sit around being bored to death when I should be having fun, and the increased visibility to prevent immoral players.

[Davoodoo]

 

Talair put it best in the other thread.

 

Warframe drop tables are not built to support an Auction House.

 

Why? Item Rarity.

 

If an Auction House system were put in Warframe, this is what we would see on it:

 

Common items (Warm Coat, Point Blank, etc) would be worth 1p.

Uncommon items (Serration, Hornet Strike, etc) would be worth 1p.

Rare items (Hell's Chamber, Ammo Mutations, Sanctuary, etc) would be worth 2 or 3p.

Discontinued Items (Ultra Rare) (Primed Chamber, Legendary Core) would be worth 500 - 10,000p.

 

99% of items are simply not that rare. The current system masks this by making it difficult to buy/sell items (you have to talk with the person, meet them in-game, etc). An Auction House system would flood the market with all these mods which are not truly rare.

 

The prices would be SO LOW, many players would probably end up just buying up everything in the game.

 

It would be worse than the Diablo III Auction House fiasco.

 

This would not only be a bad idea, but it would actually hurt new / free players the most. Yes, you could buy items on the cheap, but good luck selling that Thunderbolt mod you just found - it used to sell for 4-10p, but it (like 99% of everything else) now only sells for 1p.

 

Economy Broken.

 

 

You realise that games built around auction house like diablo are usually gimped in their drop rates, thats why d3 had milions of cheap items without resistances and only these items with resistances were high price.

 

Thats what happens when you build game around auction house instead of making game and then auction house to support it.

But you cant gimp warframe drop rates any more since they are already gimped to disincentivize grind.

 

Bigger problem for me is that prices are all done in premium currency, 1p is least we can get which is pretty limiting, if we however could list these items for credits then common and uncommon mods would be a great source of income.

Edited February 28, 2015 by Davoodoo

[Kindness]

This only happens if the people selling decide to sell for such low prices. 

 

Again, going by the rates in STO (since it's the only game I spent much time in trading), most things were fairly expensive for a casual player. Things in high demand were a lot more expensive, things that there were lots of were still expensive. Why? Because people still want to make a profit. If you don't want to sell your Hell's chamber for 2p, don't list it for 2p. Sure, people will undercut your prices and it'll take you a little bit longer to sell things, but once the cheap stuff is gone, yours will be all that's left.

 

In STO, if somebody listed something for notably less than the usual going rate ,generally fairly quickly it was bought and relisted at the going rate. The prices were normally set within a few hours of an item being introduced and didn't fluctuate much without some major interruption.

 

Now, I'm not saying the Warframe community would be that responsible when it comes to trading, but if the sellers let the market break, it's there own damn fault.

I mostly like the fact I wouldn't have to sit around being bored to death when I should be having fun, and the increased visibility to prevent immoral players.

I honestly don't even know where to begin.  Your analogy to STO doesn't work.  I'm sorry.  Adding more details isn't going to help your case.  The reason other MMOs have frictionless trade systems is because the vast majority of the most powerful items are untradeable. MMO markets are typically filled with B tier items.  There are a few top tier items that can be bought and sold between players, but they usually have a few uses and have to be replaced repeatedly (e.g. potions) or the items for sale are one part of a several part set, the rest of which must be obtained in PvE.  Such was the case for WoW and all its ilk.  

 

Warframe is significantly more comparable to an aRPG, and we already have two perfect examples those economies operating on an MMO scale:

 

1) Diablo 3.  

Ignoring the issue of the real money auction house as it will leave too many people frothing with rage, the ease at which people millions of players could buy or sell items quickly led to the vast majority of average gear being available for a trivial amount of money while a infinitesimally small subset of gear viable for the late game became ludicrously expensive.

 

2) Path of Exile

Early on in development, Grinding Gear Games realized the problems inherent with a frictionless system and chose not only to avoid having an auction house, but eliminated centralized currency altogether, forcing players to barter with consumables that already possessed intrinsic value.  This they did with the express vocalized intention of slowing down the rate of trade between players.  By comparison, it's economy is dynamic and thriving.

 

 

The only reason anyone is able to sell Hell's Chamber for 10p in the first place is because you don't want to " sit around being bored to death when I should be having fun"

[[DE]Momaw]

This only happens if the people selling decide to sell for such low prices. 

 

Again, going by the rates in STO (since it's the only game I spent much time in trading), most things were fairly expensive for a casual player. Things in high demand were a lot more expensive, things that there were lots of were still expensive. Why? Because people still want to make a profit. If you don't want to sell your Hell's chamber for 2p, don't list it for 2p. Sure, people will undercut your prices and it'll take you a little bit longer to sell things, but once the cheap stuff is gone, yours will be all that's left.

 

In STO, if somebody listed something for notably less than the usual going rate ,generally fairly quickly it was bought and relisted at the going rate. The prices were normally set within a few hours of an item being introduced and didn't fluctuate much without some major interruption.

 

The key differences here:

1.) High value tradnig in STO is heavily biased toward time-limited items from lockboxes, which means supply is finite.

2.) Lockboxes in themselves literally cannot be opened without real money being spent on them at some point, which annihilates their farmability.

 

In Warframe, every player only needs 1 or 2 copies of Hell's Chamber, and it can be farmed without investment or restriction. Heck, you can get it accidentally. I have like a dozen of them that I'm not using. The legit, persistent price of Hell's Chamber would become 2p because the supply of people turning up new ones is vastly greater than the demand of new players that need one.  The only thing stopping that from happening right now is people who think trade chat is clumsy and unfair and refuse to get involved.

Edited February 28, 2015 by Momaw

[InoxMaximus]

 

Talair put it best in the other thread.

 

Warframe drop tables are not built to support an Auction House.

 

Why? Item Rarity.

 

If an Auction House system were put in Warframe, this is what we would see on it:

 

Common items (Warm Coat, Point Blank, etc) would be worth 1p.

Uncommon items (Serration, Hornet Strike, etc) would be worth 1p.

Rare items (Hell's Chamber, Ammo Mutations, Sanctuary, etc) would be worth 2 or 3p.

Discontinued Items (Ultra Rare) (Primed Chamber, Legendary Core) would be worth 500 - 10,000p.

 

99% of items are simply not that rare. The current system masks this by making it difficult to buy/sell items (you have to talk with the person, meet them in-game, etc). An Auction House system would flood the market with all these mods which are not truly rare.

 

The prices would be SO LOW, many players would probably end up just buying up everything in the game.

 

It would be worse than the Diablo III Auction House fiasco.

 

This would not only be a bad idea, but it would actually hurt new / free players the most. Yes, you could buy items on the cheap, but good luck selling that Thunderbolt mod you just found - it used to sell for 4-10p, but it (like 99% of everything else) now only sells for 1p.

 

Economy Broken.

 

you have brought it to the point. 

 

I dont understand these people that are screaming for an Auction House. They are obviously scammed.

 

Everything is fine as it is. Only 1 thing is appreciate to be added. To open an bazaar at the Relays where you sell your items.