Does Sniper Rifles Need To Be Revisited In Warframe?

[motorfirebox]

The game simply isn't friendly to sniper-type weapons. Bows work because they're sharpshooter weapons—precise, yes, but they let you acquire a target quickly, put it down, and move on to the next without greatly limiting your field of view. Enemies aren't lethal at a long enough distance for more than that to be really necessary; if an enemy is far enough away that you really need a good scope to hit him, that enemy generally can't hurt you anyway. Even at 'max' bow range, you're engaging enemies long before they're a real threat to you. That's important because while you're putting a round into some dude at max range, his ten buddies might have spawned right beside you.

[Wustinhurf]

you know what would make sniper rifle more enjoyable? a flat tile set

[shut]

you know what would make sniper rifle more enjoyable? a flat tile set

 

... Aren't those sorts of tilesets the ones that snipers are generally worst at? With enemies freely moving around and being less likely to have their heads line up with each other and all that?

[motorfirebox]

Not a flat tileset per se, but an open one with vantage points to snipe from. And enemy snipers should be occupying those points! A sniper's job should include counter sniping. If you don't have a sniper in your squad, you have to parkour up there and take them out yourself.

[Arthurious521]

snipers in warframe are only designed for one purpose, single targets. so i don't know why you are going on the tangent that they can't kill multiple enemies, its not what a sniper is designed to do. yes most guns out preform it. yes, snipers by themselves wont go far in missions. but that doesn't mean its not working as intended.

Snipers are only good for two things, tanks and bosses. and they do those jobs exceptionally well. but they only do it well with certain warframes and weapon loadouts. I would hate to see sniper rifles to be able to do the same job as a rifle. make both classes of weapons lose their utility.

 

however. that being said. i will admit that it takes a fair amount of set up a sniper to do its job role as well as a normal rifle. a rifle is always a safe pick due to its versatility over a sniper. maybe the game just needs more tank enemies to give you and intensive to use snipers and scale their heath down just a tad

I'm not saying that sniper rifles should work with insane firerates cause if that happens, well that is no longer a sniper rifle. I do like the idea of having more tanky guys in the mission zone where sniper rifles can actually do something BUT think about it, what if you got hordes of tanky enemies bunched up together lets say the coprus with nullifiers with there bubbles as cover. I might say you're kinda screwed.

[Azamagon]

Give them:

* X-ray scopes

* Innate punchthrough

* Reliable crits

* Non-stupidly long reload times

* Bigger magazines (not for Vectis, obviously)

 

Then they might be generally useful in this game. Maybe.

[ZzVinniezZ]

^ or give 1 of them have innate explosive round for CC situation or explosive round mod (Blast doesn't proc unless you hit enemy so Blast is crossed out of my list)

[BlitzkriegBob]

Sniper rifles are clearly losing when compared to bows... They need an "edge", something specific to them to make them attractive again. As bows are crit-oriented, I think sniper rifles should be proc-oriented. Idea is, even in multi, if you can't one-shot that level 50 grineer bombard, you can at least divide his armor by applying a piercing proc for example.

 

We can think of a 40 or 50% base proc chance, or a guaranteed specific proc effect on hit (100% piercing or slash proc, or 100% blast proc for a explosive ammo riffle).

 

Just a thought, though...

[Serialkillerwhale]

This is warframe. Logic is laughing right now.

 

Also

 

 

^ Combined with the skill and technology of Tenno = Badass & Undeniably powerful weapons. By warframe lore, the Dreads arrows and dispairs razor edges are sharp enough to cut through a warframe easily. The dread being able to decapitate also means it can penatrate even the strongest of armors.

 

So. Yeah. Logic where?

1: I'd say logic is more likely to be crying in a corner.

2: Hype Hyperson

3: Beheading=/=Armor Penetration. A beheading weapon is, by nature, a chopping one. Chopping weapons are more or less worthless vs. plate armor.

this is quite literally a worst-case secnario being replicated, short range, and a direct hit on the flattest part of the armor, instead of a more likely hit on the side where it'd glance off.

 

And yet the armor, armor of a quality common to the 16th century, worked. Modern armor is rated for many, many, many, times it's actual thickness in steel against Kinetic Energy. Dragon Skin INFANTRY armor, something that exists today, can take a grenade head on.

[Mastikator2]

We spend 99% of the time moving fast in close quarters. Bringing a sniper weapon is stupid for that, of course it's gonna be inefficient if you bring a niche weapon out of its niche usage, and no, that is not grounds for changing it.

 

What needs to change is more open maps and more realistic and natural enemy movement (I'm talking about MOMENTUM).

 

Snipers are high precision rifles, that's the main part, not the "bullet so hard it murders tanks", it needs to be able to scope hundreds of meters and hit precisely at that range. But no maps exist for that purpose, except for the ice dam (Draco).

 

So, do Sniper Rifles need revision? Yes. But the actual sniper rifles are fine.

[motorfirebox]

We spend 99% of the time moving fast in close quarters. Bringing a sniper weapon is stupid for that, of course it's gonna be inefficient if you bring a niche weapon out of its niche usage, and no, that is not grounds for changing it.

 

What needs to change is more open maps and more realistic and natural enemy movement (I'm talking about MOMENTUM).

 

Snipers are high precision rifles, that's the main part, not the "bullet so hard it murders tanks", it needs to be able to scope hundreds of meters and hit precisely at that range. But no maps exist for that purpose, except for the ice dam (Draco).

 

So, do Sniper Rifles need revision? Yes. But the actual sniper rifles are fine.

This, basically. We need situations where sniper rifles are useful more than we need changes to sniper rifles.

[Shuuro]

-snip-

 

What part of:

 

This is warframe. Logic is laughing right now.

 

and

 

Combined with the skill and technology of Tenno = Badass & Undeniably powerful weapons.

 

Was not clear?

 

Real life: Guns > Bows.

 

Warframe: Logic means nothing.

 

Never said anything about beheading. Although my use of the word decapitation might not have been clear (and possibly now that I look at it incorrect), that was my fault. The dreads arrows literally cuts enemies in half, straight down the middle. From what I can tell, these arrows have razor sharp energy bladed tips.

 

 

As for the usage and damage of snipers, I think I may have a possible solution.

 

We have weapons with a hard cap range, weapons with unlimited range, and weapons with fall off damage. Lazers, rifles, and shotguns.

 

So, why don't we give Snipers, more damage the further an enemy is? I don't know about everyone else, but I know I've found quite a few sniper spots from parkouring around tile sets.

 

The further an enemy is, the more base damage, crit chance, and crit damage gets applied. This way, you're rewarded for precision shooting at long distances, the way a sniper should be used.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Shuuro

[Inarticulate]

Warframe's bows are powerful because they are Gauss rifles (that produce the magnetic field using space-ninja magic) that use the bowstring to deliver an initial impulse to the projeclie.

 

I personally think snipers should be made more properly into one-shot-one-kill weapons that deal consistent damage. Give them 0% base critical chance with a 100% (or 200%) critical chance on headshots that is not affected by mods. Give them a high critical damage multiplier. Give them pinpoint accuracy.

[Haif]

I would like to see a "stance" system used exclusively for modifying scope type and/or zoom.

Possibly have multiple "stance" slots, one for zoom level and one for crosshair pattern, but make them give 0 mod points so that its purely a cosmetic option.

 

Having a zoom mod be tied to a regular mod slot just hurts your overall power and feels horribly restrictive.

 

Also, negative zoom (or the ability to remove the scope) needs to be a thing.

Using my Snipetron is unreasonably harder than it needs to be in most missions because the map design facilitates close-quarters combat and high-zoom scopes are horribly designed for that sort of environment.

[Institute-Marksman]

You can buff their damage, change their default polarity and ammo type, make their scopes look nice, but they will never become desirable.

Why? Because the Warframe Tileset is close-to mid range, with only a handful of tiles suited for long range sniper action. Until you bring out some long distance maps, Snipers will never be used to their full extent. Snipers are built for long range, something Warframe seriously lacks.

Trust me, I love snipers. Especially the Vulkar, but they're not any good in the game. You're better off modding mid-range weapons such as the Grinlok or Latron with extra Zoom. You'd also run out of ammo less quick(Grinlok will never run out of ammo).

Edited March 14, 2015 by Institute-Marksman

[Bibliothekar]

I would like to see a "stance" system used exclusively for modifying scope type and/or zoom.

Possibly have multiple "stance" slots, one for zoom level and one for crosshair pattern, but make them give 0 mod points so that its purely a cosmetic option.

No, please, not another set of mods. Just put an extra section in the Appearance tab. I want to be able and modify my scope from the very beginning, not have to farm $unit over and over and over again until one finally decides to drop that rare mod that give me a red instead of green tint on my scope.

[Burns2PvP]

Agreed with sort of on one of his points.

 

The base damage of the snipers should be up and out their own a**es for the reason that in PvP it has a baseline damage.

Best solution in my eyes is to get their DPS out the roof and keep crit % the same, but maybe lower the crit multiplier (depending on how much they increase the single shot DPS).

Edited March 14, 2015 by deadinflict

[KILLER89911]

They need to work of the sniper rifles,to bad,the game is close quarter and there arent even  any nice spots to provide sniper cover to the team.The map is too small,and the lack of absence of cover mechanism beats the fish out of the game.

Edited March 14, 2015 by KILLER89911

[BlitzkriegBob]

No, please, not another set of mods. Just put an extra section in the Appearance tab. I want to be able and modify my scope from the very beginning, not have to farm $unit over and over and over again until one finally decides to drop that rare mod that give me a red instead of green tint on my scope.

Actually... yes. I mean, frames have aura, melee weapons have stance, it would make sense if ranged weapons have something similar and called accessories (or attachement, or something similar). And no, I don't think we need to had any additional mod: eagle eye, magazine size, or hush can be shifted fro regular mods to "attachement". DE just need to determine which ones must be "shifted" and what will be the new mod points rating.

 

Going back to topic: as stances are weapon-specifics, some of attachements could be the same: no hush for a shotgun, for example (wait, isn't it already the case?) or eagle eye only for snipers and assault rifles. This brings me to think about something that most of people will hate: additional mods. Yes, again drop tables dillution. First of all, as DE will continue introducing melee weapons, we will have such dillution occuring with the new stances, plain and simple. Second, the new mods introduced can be for snipers only, as all other ranged weapons can earn their "attachement" by retuning exisitng mods. And finaly, it will allow to had sniper specific mechanics, such as additional headshot (or any bodypart, or weakspot in general to synergize with Sonar...) multiplier or alternative ammo type with innate status (AP with 100% piercing proc, hollow point with 100% stun,... we have now enough status effects available to come with something fun). On the other hand, I agree that we must not had tons of such mods otherwise will bang again our head on the grind wall. 4 or 5 mods seems good to me (I speak only for the sniper-specific ones; the other ranged weapons will gain their one by retuning old mods, as I said before), one being given as a quest reward and the other ones dropping normally with uncommon rating. Doesn't sounds too much of a bother to me, if I can experience new gameplay and take my Vectis out of his locker...

 

Edit: about some other posts speaking of close quarter battles and so on: I have found snipers quite usable by going the stealth way, taking down the biggest boys from a distance and finishing the job with melee. It's surprinsingly viable and fun, even if it's better done solo and stealth. The small size of tiles is not to big of a problem, I think; of course, you find yourself "sniping" from 30m away, but first you will usually aim for a specific weakspot, and it's difficult to shoot the left arm of a moving target 1500m away. That's the reason for the ideas in the above paragraph: trouble is not the size of the tiles, it is that snipers miss a role, something specific to make them relevant to the game; and I think dedicated "attachement" might be a solution.

 

As usual: just my thought, though...

Edited March 14, 2015 by BlitzkriegBob

[jjpdn]

DE needs to create insane high damage enemies with high health, either with high range and melee. Also, DE has to create some way for snipers to be able to create sniper nests.

[Kasumi-]

No scope and so much damage it makes level 9001+ enemies' pitiful attempts to do anything laughable?

Made a change there...

[BeWhatIAm]

I think i would like to see two improvements to the scoped view.  

 

1.) A zoomed in view like our codex scanner to we can see through walls.

 

2.) How about when zoomed in a very toned down version of sonar through the scope. so extra damage for sniping.. but can still shoot no scope.

[BaSiLB]

I NEED they heavy sound of snipers when they shot , and how the bullet will effect the body of the enemies  

[ComplexLain]

The Sniper Rifle in Warframe suffers in my opinion because It is always being compared to other high firing weps and (an old hated Warframe topic) the "Rush Game" nature of players, charge in, get the level done, leave.

 

Look at what a Sniper Rifle Was/is used for, Very Long distance Covert missions.   Movement Suppression and Team Support (High Guard/God function), basically 'Fear factors' and the way the enemy reacts to unseen enemy deadly fire.  Totally different from the assault rifles, charge in and blast function.  

 

It suffers because there are NO games in Warframe that allow the Sniper rifle to be used efficiently and effectively and in my opinion it is not the Sniper Rifle that need revisiting its the Game types, or lack of them.

[Azamagon]

I have already commented, but I'm gonna comment again:

 

This game is mainly about killing hordes of enemies. Sniper Rifles are bad at that, they are mainly "heavy hitters" (unreliable at even that due to no reliable crits, blergh!). I really don't think DE are gonna change the game so drastically just to make the Sniper Rifles fit, it is far more likely that they'll alter the Sniper Rifles so they fit the pace of the game better instead.

 

With that said, I think this is all they really need:

 

* Innate punchthrough, a minimum of 1 meter

* X-ray scopes, similar to using a Scanner, so you can use said punchthrough a bit better

* Possibly allow us to vary the zoom of the scopes (while aiming, scrolling up/down changes the zoom - Makes Snipers, and even mods like Eagle Eye and Hawk Eye less aweful)

* Reliable crits, so minimum of 40% chance at base

* Bigger magazines, nothing less than 8 bullets per mag (not for Vectis, obviously).

* Non-stupidly long reload times. Between 2 and 2,5 seconds sounds ok, depending on the magsizes. (Vectis remains as it is ofc, but it really needs to have its reload delay fixed)

 

On a similar note, I think the Sybaris and Grinlok could need a boost in magsizes too (16 for Syb, 10 for Grin). While they can be considered battle rifles (due to their use of Rifle ammo and low zoom), they function more like Sniper Rifles with their miniscule magsizes. Giving Sybaris duplex-auto would also be a nice QoL-boost for it.