Maintain The Habitat. Maintain The Operator.

[[DE]Momaw]

Ordis had an interesting quip a few moments go, as of this writing:

 

"You are the Tenno. You are the Operator. Ordis is the Cephalon. Ordis is the ship."

 

Deadpan delivery like the other mentioned quotes, and I'm a little curious whether it could be seen as another 'Mantra', perhaps. Certainly has a 'This is what is' feel to it.

 

I was thinking about that one.  Had a notion it was a logical analogy, in the form of A is to B, as C is to D.  Meaning Tenno is to Operator, as Cephalon is to Ship.  Making Tenno the consciousness and animating force of the Operator, just as Ordis is the consciousness and animating force of the Ship.  Operator here being used to refer to the Tenno+Warframe that is present and in command on the shuttle, instead of how we were using the term.

 

So many possibilities.

[CriticalFumble]

This can be explained by Valkers Codex entry actually.  "Forged in the labs of the Zanuka project, the original Valkyr was subject to cruel experiments, leaving her scarred, angry and frighteningly adept at killing." - Valkyr Codex.    Notice the phase original Valkyr this eludes that before the frame was mass produced there was an original or the first vlkyr who had an actual operator inside.   If we look at Limbo and Mirage we can also assume that those were the original or prototype warframes for that type, as such they had a person one of the "afflicted" inside of them.  When the original warframe was destroyed that person died.  

But if you could send a UAV into battle instead of risking your own self, why wouldn't you?  You have half an argument with Valk as she was imprisoned by the Corpus, but why would Mirage and Limbo do that?  

 

Also note that having real Tenno inside warframes is not an uncommon thing in our current cannon.  Remember the Gradivus Dilemma?  Alad V was harvesting cryopods for warframe parts, but Lotus - who should know these things - said that they were "sleeping Tenno".  

 

Perhaps a Tenno operating a warframe is unable to get out of it without the proper equipment. If a frame is disabled on the field, their consciousness is still stuck wherever that frame went down. So the Tenno attached to is now both unable to find the way back to their real body and unable to find a different frame to jump into (which is what the arsenal provides). Sufficiently brutal damage to the frame would remove whatever anchors the Tenno to it, and leave the operator in a braindead state. So Mirage's operator's body still existed when the frame was destroyed by the Sentients, but their actual person was lost.

 

More speculation.

So, basically the concept from The Matrix or. . . there was something similar, but I forget what that was.  

 

In any case then, the warframe's destruction is tied to a Tenno's death.  So what's the point of this theory then?  It "explains" the gender thing which doesn't need to be explained, its just a resource limitation; but does not explain the non-permanent death aspect like some people want it to.  Also seems like the Nullifier bubble would instakill a Tenno as well; seeing as the projection would be a Tenno power, which is a set inside "things Nullifiers stop".  

 

 

I was thinking about that one.  Had a notion it was a logical analogy, in the form of A is to B, as C is to D.  Meaning Tenno is to Operator, as Cephalon is to Ship.  Making Tenno the consciousness and animating force of the Operator, just as Ordis is the consciousness and animating force of the Ship.  Operator here being used to refer to the Tenno+Warframe that is present and in command on the shuttle, instead of how we were using the term.

 

So many possibilities.

Isn't "Operator" a way of saying "agent" as well?  In Ordis' case, the logic chain is mind->body.  But the other does not fit very well, as the "operator" in this theory is not a body - that would be better described using "warframe".  Wouldn't Identity->role fit just as well, if not better?  

 

Not trying to trash theories, this is all just a bit of a stretch right now.  

 

Especially with the Void, well, vomiting out its contents in the future, we won't be able to hide a "true" body in the Void for much longer.  Also, you think we'd know this, its not like you can Amnesia away things that you're actively doing yourself.  Or at least without phlobotinum poisoning.  

[Akavakaku]

Great ideas everywhere, but I don't really buy the Tenno being able to return from their warframes if they die. I think that's a gameplay thing, whereas in the story it seems like if a warframe has a Tenno in it and is destroyed, the Tenno dies. Additionally, a Tenno can't escape their warframe at all unless they have another warframe (or some other body, like the one used in cryopods) to enter; that's why a Zanuka capture requires you to escape.

 

And I don't think the apparent sex traits of the warframes is a result of how they were made, I think the Orokin made the warframes as humanlike in shape as possible in order to have the favor of the Tenno, who were once human, and to encourage the troops that they were not merely war machines, but people to trust and cooperate with. As for the male-only cryopod bodies, I believe they are all identical replicas designed specifically for Tenno in cryosleep. After all, with a single body to conform to, the cryopods can be built with much greater precision than if they had to accommodate a variety of occupants.

 

"You are the Tenno. You are the Operator. Ordis is the Cephalon. Ordis is the ship."

I think this is mainly for the benefit of new players who are learning the game's terminology.

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

 

As for the male-only cryopod bodies, I believe they are all identical replicas designed specifically for Tenno in cryosleep. After all, with a single body to conform to, the cryopods can be built with much greater precision than if they had to accommodate a variety of occupants.

 

So the out-of-warframe bodies that the Tenno have are piloted by an energy being, and then the bodies pilot the warframe? This is possible, but it would seem more efficient for the Orokin to rule out the middle man and just have the energy beings pilot the warframes directly, which is already extremely unlikely.

 

Also, there's something we've been overlooking the entire time. Hayden Tenno could be considered to be the first actual Tenno, and he's clearly humanoid. This makes it very unlikely that the Tenno are energy beings, although it's still possible that their species has "progressed" past what Hayden was (this would also explain how they would be able to change gender). Personally, I think that Hayden is strong enough evidence that Tenno are physical, humanoid beings. His "warframe" (sort of) is actually a part of his body, which would seem to support this theory:

 

the Warframe partially consumes the wearer and incorporates them into itself (ala Guyver) and then when they want to switch just regurgitates them whole.

 

It still wouldn't explain the more mechanical looking warframes, though.

Edited March 25, 2015 by 4G3NT_0R4NG3

[[DE]Momaw]

Hayden Tenno could be considered to be the first actual Tenno, and he's clearly humanoid.

 

Except there's thousands of years difference between Hayden Tenno and the Orokin.

 

My pet theory is that Hayden somehow found the Void in his ordinary mortal life span, and was the first person to ascend to being an "energy being". Later he rescued the (much later) Orokin travelers who were getting lost in there, and in respect they adopted his name as the name of their culture.

 

But that's REALLY hardcore speculation that's not backed up by much of anything. I just like the idea.

[Morec0]

It still wouldn't explain the more mechanical looking warframes, though.

 

There were Warframes designed to be more mechanical, what more is there to say? In the end all the Warframes are still made of Technocyte and are still living entities of themselves. Though I'm not even sure which "more mechanical looking Warframes" you're ferring to. Zephyr? Vauban? They may be more armored, but still look organic enough.

[Morec0]

Except there's thousands of years difference between Hayden Tenno and the Orokin.

 

My pet theory is that Hayden somehow found the Void in his ordinary mortal life span, and was the first person to ascend to being an "energy being". Later he rescued the (much later) Orokin travelers who were getting lost in there, and in respect they adopted his name as the name of their culture.

 

But that's REALLY hardcore speculation that's not backed up by much of anything. I just like the idea.

 

I continue to think that the "first Tenno" thing is still just an honorism - he was the first Tenno because he is what the Tenno (well, their Warframes anyway) would later be based off of when the Orokin went to create something like him - Technocyte warriors that wielded the blade and gun.

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

There were Warframes designed to be more mechanical, what more is there to say? In the end all the Warframes are still made of Technocyte and are still living entities of themselves. Though I'm not even sure which "more mechanical looking Warframes" you're ferring to. Zephyr? Vauban? They may be more armored, but still look organic enough.

 

I was thinking more along the lines of Mag's arm coils and the gold in prime warframes. I have a pretty hard time believing that those are Technocyte.

[CriticalFumble]

I was thinking more along the lines of Mag's arm coils and the gold in prime warframes. I have a pretty hard time believing that those are Technocyte.

 

Well, if the kept the Dark Sector Technocyte, it doesn't have many limitations.  The glave that Hayden used was made of Technocyte, which is how the folding and after-touching was explained.  Then of course there were all the monsters as well. 

 

Now I grant you that what we use is a fairly lethargic strain, which might also be a more reasonable explanation for the metallic bits.  It molds to fill a specific role like the body produces different cells for livers and muscles and skin which has a side effect of changing their appearance as well as making them unable to take different roles.  It might be like saying bone does not appear organic; however its basically a worked calcium rock built and maintained by the owning body. 

[Morec0]

I was thinking more along the lines of Mag's arm coils and the gold in prime warframes. I have a pretty hard time believing that those are Technocyte.

 

Technocyte's living metal - see Dark Sector.  As for the gold, I'd say there are two possibilities: one, the Orokin grafted that into the Technocyte later (because they're aesthetic-loving asshats) or two, they used a strain of Technocyte that gave off a gold color. It's unclear, but the fact are Warframes are so much more than just suits of armor seems clear.

 

Well, if the kept the Dark Sector Technocyte, it doesn't have many limitations.  The glave that Hayden used was made of Technocyte, which is how the folding and after-touching was explained.  Then of course there were all the monsters as well. 

 

Now I grant you that what we use is a fairly lethargic strain, which might also be a more reasonable explanation for the metallic bits.  It molds to fill a specific role like the body produces different cells for livers and muscles and skin which has a side effect of changing their appearance as well as making them unable to take different roles.  It might be like saying bone does not appear organic; however its basically a worked calcium rock built and maintained by the owning body. 

 

Basically this.

[Blakrana]

A theory I've seen is that Forma is a kind of Technocyte derived material, and that's the gold stuff we see. It explains the shape-changing capacities and the presence of infested material in its construction, at any rate.

 

Honestly, Technocyte is weird as all hell. Even in Dark Sector, that stuff let Hayden either create a PURE ENERGY shield, or just flat out go invisible which also gave him a kind of enemy awareness sense whilst 'Shifted'; Shift and you can see other Infested critters. Note that the main tagline for every progression of the Technocyte in Hayden's case was explicitly and emphatically called Evolution.

 

Much of whatever the Warframes are are likely what was yielded by combining this highly mutation prone substance, with the genetic engineering brilliance of the Orokin, prettied up as best they could to look like a sculpted life form rather than another Technocyte monster. Combine that with the Tenno's Void laced essence...and well...As Vor says 'Could they be mere lightning rods for these demons of the Void?'

 

Course, I'm still of the view that whatever they are, there's a 'presence' to each Warframe, and that's why you need Affinity; the mutual trust between Tenno and Warframe are where the increases in power come from as each can give the other more and it not be ill spent. Theory, mind, but I'm somewhat fond of symbiotic concepts. Just depends how far it goes...does it eventually become that a Tenno and a Warframe are indistinguishable from each other once they've attuned with each other enough?

 

Apologies, digression I suppose.

[[DE]Momaw]

a 'presence' to each Warframe, and that's why you need Affinity; the mutual trust between Tenno and Warframe  Just depends how far it goes...does it eventually become that a Tenno and a Warframe are indistinguishable from each other once they've attuned with each other enough?

 

Mind blown.   Very interesting idea.

[motorfirebox]

First time Ordis did his "Do not lift the veil" bit, it genuinely gave me chills.

[smithf]

-snip-

 

Course, I'm still of the view that whatever they are, there's a 'presence' to each Warframe, and that's why you need Affinity; the mutual trust between Tenno and Warframe are where the increases in power come from as each can give the other more and it not be ill spent. Theory, mind, but I'm somewhat fond of symbiotic concepts. Just depends how far it goes...does it eventually become that a Tenno and a Warframe are indistinguishable from each other once they've attuned with each other enough?

 

Apologies, digression I suppose.

This is actually very close to some imagi-speculations I have. Really delighted to find another who approves of this possibility!

Just throwing out/expanding some ideas/discussions what I posted in some other thread recently, perhaps to expand this further?

This T-virus, can we assume that it has a "synthesis" trait (not Simaris type). Basically, T-infected beings has the tendency to absorb/merge other things, be it organic or inorganic. Just that some are a little out of control (Infested faction). Others are .. semi-controlled (Mutalist faction). Tenno could be those that have more control over what they synthesize.

The next part is one that tries to "resolve" an old argument, whether each Warframe is a unique Tenno, or whether there are many Warframes worn by many Tenno. My latest imagination: why not both?

This is where my idea agrees with yours in many ways.

e.g.

That Warframe is not just a suit.

It is an (semi)organic being, with DNA, and possible a consciousness as well.

Just perhaps this "consciousness" is not fully active. The Warframe itself can be like a "live" being which is dying, but never quite reach the "dead" state, and the consciousness is usually in stasis, which is why it is incapable of actions by itself. Until a Tenno "suits up", which then joins the two into a symbiotic being with is more than the sum of two. The Tenno body may provides the energy or the "live" parts required by the Warframe body, which is hardened and evolved for battle. But it is not a simple one way. Both parts may provide some "power" source that the other don't have, and both parts may provide "control" in some fashion that compensates each other as well. Hence symbiotic. It will make it easier to explain some Warframe "powers" which may seem like strange exceptions if we stick to one strict rule (like Tenno being operator/power and Warframe being vehicle/control).

 

In addition to the physical body, the mind of the Tenno will "link up" to the Warframe's dormant mind, and gain access to the memories, the knowledge, the skills and perhaps even emotions as well. (an inspiration is Assassin's Creed genetic memory synchronization thingy)

This is why Tenno don't gain experience and learn new skills (mirrors above post almost exactly here). They gain "Affinity" (totally agree with above post on this idea) as the Tenno mind and the Warframe memories becomes synchronized.

And such deep synchronization will leave its mark. The Tenno will gain and retain more and more of the Warframe's memories, and the Warframe will begin to remember the Tenno's memory as well. The Warframe's "consciousness", can then be seen as the "sum" of all the Tenno who has ever "worn" it. Each Tenno's addition to the Warframe may seem small compared to the accumulated memories of past Tenno wearers throughout history, but each Tenno definitely adds a little more to the consciousness. And thus, all Tenno who wears the same Warframe may indeed become THE Warframe itself. E.g. As a Tenno girl wears and uses Ember frame, she will become Ember over time.

As for "multiple" Warframes of same type and relation to Prime frames, since Warframes can be seen as indepedent beings, they can be physically cloned. Prime frames can be the originals, the first being created/accumulated, which are then cloned to form other "copies". The non-prime frames could be "imperfect" clones of the original (perhaps due to limitation in resources or equipment at some point, after the Orokin era). Though the bodies are copies, the minds of the Warfame however, could be linked. e.g. Two Excalibur frames could be physically distinct, but their could be sharing the same "Excalibur" consciousness. Which is why all Tenno who wears the same frame type, no matter whether it is the exact same physical one, will become the same "Excalibur" over time, which is why in some ficticious stories of old times, where "Excalibur" appeared in history, we can see it as the same (reincarnated?) Excalibur.

But whether the Tenno body will eventually gets absorbed by the Warframe, I am leaning towards not. Only the memories gets merged, so that the Warframe body itself, remains almost the same (though it CAN evolve slowly over time). This could be one distinction between the range of those infected by T-virus. The "lower" end (infested faction) evolves physically, to search for perhaps a better physical form. But the "higher" end (warframe) has perhaps reached near optimal physical form, which is why the evolution is perhaps more mental/behavioral. But it could be interesting if there is perhaps some ceremony which interrs a dead Tenno some way, that it gets "fully joint" to the Warframe DNA/consciousness fully.

 

---

coming back to Operator/Ship topic a little.

 

I felt that the relation between Operator and Ship could be simpler than that between Tenno and Warframe. The latter is sort of like at the level of the existence of being (which don't change). The former is at the level of roles and relationship (which changes with "job").

 

This is not to say that it is not interesting though, and I really like some of the speculations, though I have not much to add on my own (since I haven't thought about it deeply yet).

 

But here is some "ideas" which possibly tie in with the first part of this post:

 

Could the "dream" in "do not split the dream" be related to the collective consciousness of Warframes/dead Tenno in the past? Could the "door" and "veil" (veil being an obstacle to hide/block the door?) be some "final" step in Warframe/Tenno's evolution, which could be considered undesirable by the Tenno/Orokin/Council?  (e.g. end up something like Lephantis?). And if this warning exists: could there already have been a "mistake" before?

 

e.g. some specific Warframe (+ its collective consciousness) becoming something ... non-Tenno/Warframe permanently?

 

---

 

Keep the ideas coming!! Feed me!!!

[Blakrana]

Certainly a possibility, though as it is I'm admittedly remiss in direct theories concerning Warframes as creatures; had a few concerning the production line but either way...it's interesting. I admit my bias has been somewhat more invested in the nature of the Tenno, really.

 

Your idea certainly has a fitting ascetic feel to it, considering that this interpretation is sort of suggestive of an almost 'nirvana' or apotheosis almost, when Tenno and Warframes get far enough along with their Affinity to each other. Reminds me of the Trill-Symbiont relationship somewhat, as well; the individual's memories are retained and passed on to the Symbiont, and those are drawn upon in the next host's life.

 

We'll just have to see, but it's entertaining to consider what could be the case.

[Akavakaku]

When I said the cryopod bodies were identical shells for sleeping Tenno, I didn't mean the Tenno would then have their warframes attached to those bodies. I agree that the warframes are complete bodies, which the Tenno inhabit directly.

 

As for Hayden Tenno, I think he probably had a lot of historical significance due to battling the T-virus outbreak. The warframes were designed to use outdated technology, which would include Tenno's suit. The Orokin called warframe users Tenno in reference to the inspiration for the design.

[motorfirebox]

Yeah, I've always liked the idea that the frames were not merely suits, but semi-sentient beings themselves, with each model having a shared consciousness but no individual life force—that's what the Tenno provide when they inhabit the frame. The Tenno have memories and skills but no personality; the frames have personality but are otherwise empty shells. Click one into the other and you have a whole being.

[TheVeiledScion]

I think it's very simple: The Tenno is the operator of the ship, while Ordis is a part of the ship's systems itself.

 

As to the Tenno and Warframes, Lech Kril states, "Beneath those suits exist flesh. Flesh bleeds", and, "Does that second-skin peel away just as easy as the first?" Vor says, "Every time we tear a Tenno corpse from its metal womb we find nothing to explain their power. Our Warframe engineers gesture wildly about nanotechnology, how reactive dissolution hides the answers. What if a Warframe is merely a lightning rod? A conduit for these demons of the Void? Consider how it could change our plan," and then, "We've been wrong all this time. Tenno do not control the Warframe's divine energy. The Tenno ARE that energy. Each Warframe you control is merely a glass shaping your furious light." The Mag Prime codex clearly refers to "a Tenno inside its Warframe", and the Warframe as "armor" or a "carapace", while Ember Prime's codex refers to them beforehand as children. Excalibur Prime's codex says, "we built a frame around them, a conduit of their affliction", and Rhino Prime's codex refers to a bipedal "beast" with metal skin and shell and fingers. Alad V affirms that Technocyte is still "cold metal made one with living flesh", while J3-Golem and Lephantis say to the Tenno, "We are your flesh."

 

So if you take all of this together, then it seems apparent that the Warframes are metal armor/suits/shells bonded to the Tenno in such a way as to channel their abilities; the Tenno are physical beings inside the Warframes that are flesh and blood and Technocyte, with some sort of energy-based connection to the Void that gives them their abilities. Nothing suggests that the Warframes are creatures, any more than the Nemesis armor from Dark Sector was a creature.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Arktourus

[Akavakaku]

Hold on, there's no indication there that the flesh of a Warframe is the Tenno. As Vor says, the Tenno are not the biological components of the warframe, but merely energy. The warframe's description as being armor is more figurative than literal. The proto-Rhino was not a Tenno, but a warframe. When it was brought to the Zariman survivors, it suddenly changed its behavior. The only possible explanation is that a future Tenno entered the warframe in energy form and took control.

[TheVeiledScion]

Hold on, there's no indication there that the flesh of a Warframe is the Tenno. As Vor says, the Tenno are not the biological components of the warframe, but merely energy. The warframe's description as being armor is more figurative than literal. The proto-Rhino was not a Tenno, but a warframe. When it was brought to the Zariman survivors, it suddenly changed its behavior. The only possible explanation is that a future Tenno entered the warframe in energy form and took control.

But look at all the quotes cited above. From the evidence, including Vor's own words, it is his latter statement that is figurative. The Tenno has a fleshly body distinct from the metal warframe, which is literally armor/frame/shell/skin/suit, and functions figuratively as lightning rod, conduit, prism. That's pretty clear. You're taking one figurative statement out of context.

Each of those terms indicates that the Warframe is quite hollow inside. If this isn't convincing, perhaps Lotus' words about Infested Mesa: "That's not a Tenno. That's a hollow Warframe being puppeted by Infested flesh." This is quite clear: 1) Warframes are themselves hollow, and 2) Warframes are animated by fleshly beings, not energy beings.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Arktourus

[OniDax]

Hold on, there's no indication there that the flesh of a Warframe is the Tenno. As Vor says, the Tenno are not the biological components of the warframe, but merely energy. The warframe's description as being armor is more figurative than literal. The proto-Rhino was not a Tenno, but a warframe. When it was brought to the Zariman survivors, it suddenly changed its behavior. The only possible explanation is that a future Tenno entered the warframe in energy form and took control.

 

You're wrong. The Warframes weren't built then, nor were they built and, afterwards, the Tenno entered. No, the Warframes were built "around" the Tenno. The Tenno had physical bodies. Everything points to that. The Warframes are not living on their own. They are suits. They are armor. They are conduits for Tenno power, for the energy that is within the Tenno.

Edited April 7, 2015 by AntoineFlemming

[Akavakaku]

So then, what was proto-Rhino? How did it see, eat and use its powers? What made it stop?

[CheeseHasLeafs]

Um I'm fairly sure the Arsenal, Foundry, Incubator and mod inventory are in the Orbiter, and that we see it basically every time we log in. When you're down there Ordis sometimes says: "Hmm... Ordis thought the Orbiter compartment was much larger than this.". 

[[DE]Momaw]

 

"There's things in there you don't want to see."

 

:>

[(PSN)batman200087]

hmmmm.^^