The Manic, Is A Stage Towards Anti Progression

[faiyde]

I mostly find him challenging rather than irritating. But since he often seems to do hundreds of damage from his attacks, (I could have sworn I had around 600 hp when he one hit bleed proc killed me) people are entirely justified in their complaints.

[Davoodoo]

I love when ppl bash on cloakers so much and as much as i hate being kicked by one i understand that they actually fill their role, being effective against slow tanks which can effectively make tasers and snipers harmless. They also punish 1 most common trait of techforcer build users, their overconfidence. You feel immortal you stop checking surroundings and you die horribly from stealth attack.

 

Cloakers can actually do S#&$ against light builds which can pretty much kite and dodge them easily and high burst weapons can kill them between them getting close to you and kicking you in the face.

 

As for soloing, they have their instakill disabled if you play truly solo, bots are still counted as coop.

 

Manics i dont really find similiar.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Davoodoo

[Kasseopea]

Okaaay...strange. Not showing off, but after meeting him 3 times i havent received even a single hit. Maybe my Frost Bubble saved me (you know, whenever i hear the laughter i pop it up and begin to rum/slide/jump around like a MANIAC. ^^

[MumblesMcphatty]

Antiprogression? Lol - wut?

 

The first two times - I got taken down hard - other than that he's been Brakk-meat.

 

Awesome enemy - most fun encounter in the game yet! Taking out nullifiers is as pedestrian as everything else in this game - this was much more enjoyable.

 

If you're just standing around with that fully loaded Valkyr from OP - you deserve to go down - if you actually move in response to his attacks - that's not going to happen.

 

Anti-progression - so dramatic <eyeroll>

[ViolettaFoxx]

Uhm... holy crap I never thought someone would actually rage about a new type of enemy added. I really really like the idea and he's not even that threatening. He's more threatening than the scrap one bolt from my Boltor Prime throws against a wall or a wave of more scrap. I actually have to dodge around and look for where he appears.

 

Jesus man, it's more mechanics you need to pay attention to and adapt in the game. It's a great addition and it's exactly how this game needs to progress. (Less bullet sponges, more tactical approach to fighting.)

 

The ONLY ONLY ONLY ONLY thing I can agree on with you is that ANYTHING instant-kill should not be added. And even at that, the Manic's instant-kill can be dodged. Mechanics, yo.

Edited March 24, 2015 by ViolettaFoxx

[MichaelSD]

The manic adds a fresh duelist-mecahnic to the game and it's fun to fight an actually challenging enemy for once. So what are people talking about? The manic is fun and a good addition to the game. Although his slash proc on higher levels is a bit ridiculous IF he can catch you.

 

Challenging? Side step and kill in two shots is not challenging, just annoying. As with Nullifier, same annoyance, bat least Nullifier increases difficulty a bit,  a new mechanic was introduced which breaks the rules and the flow of combat unnecessarily.

[Kasarian]

Challenging? Side step and kill in two shots is not challenging, just annoying. As with Nullifier, same annoyance, bat least Nullifier increases difficulty a bit,  a new mechanic was introduced which breaks the rules and the flow of combat unnecessarily.

 

Nullifier is BS not a challenge but the topic is about Manic so let's stick to that.

[Archistopheles]

This unit is a stone cold mechanical copy of the Payday 2 Ghost.

I'm sure someone has said it already, but the Maniac was designed by a player, not DE.

[The_Traitor_Executioner]

The Manic, is a stage towards ANTI PROGRESSION.

This unit is a stone cold mechanical copy of the Payday 2 Ghost. It's one of the big reasons i quit PayDay 2. Firstly, this almost completely throws SINGLE PLAYER into the trashcan. People who have bad connections or prefer to play alone are being f###ed the hardest (they dont have AI buddies). And secondly, theyre ANTI PROGRESSION. I would understand this kind of enemy in a game like Left 4 Dead where you dont need to level up and you always have teammates, but not here.

 

Why does it kill progression you ask?

Because of the same reason in PayDay2: What if i create the most Tankiest build i can, with the maximum armor, completely minmaxed to the pinnacle, after spending years of playing a game Leveling Up, Earning that Gear, Earning and ranking all the skills and the mods in this case, to be a slow, heavily armored Tank...only to be one-hit KO'd by a skinny weak enemy....and then you just insert an Instant-Kill mechanic that completely ignores and disregards the whole point of a leveling up system and ranking anything and having any kind of armor or shield.

The Instant-Kill or Permanent-Stunlock-Until-Death enemy DOES NOT BELONG IN A GAME WITH  SUCH STEEP PROGRESSION.

Currently, a level 1 Manic can kill a 6 Forma'd level 30 Valkyr with Redirection, Vitality, Vigor, Steel Fiber, and allll the other tanky mods put together. THIS IS WRONG. Its ANTI PROGRESSION and it's ANTI WARFRAME.

 

THOSE KINDS OF GAME MECHANICS DO NOT BELONG HERE.

 

First, it's the Cloaker.  Secondly, there's a skill that lets you counter his attacks now.  I do agree that this crap does not even remotely belong in Warframe, however.

[Nercrosis]

Okay, heres a tip. Turn up your voice volume, youll hear him when hes comming. Youl'' be able to fight him easily trust me, he isnt hard.

 

If you REALLY REALLY REALLY don't want to face him, whenever the alrams go off reset them and make sure to keep them off. He only comes when the alarams are off

 

The maniac is not anti progression, HE IS PROGRESSION. He is a new unique enemy(thank christ) that puts the fear of death back into players instead of boring grindy grind town players. 

 

This is just another example of adapting to a situation, and figuring it out.

 

I would counter that this is incorrect - use same formula, OP frame, OP weapon, and from what I've read, you need to one shot him.

 

I've faced him twice, and both times failed to kill him. Because he can cloak and teleport when stunned (using Volt's first power, and then using shocking speed). Because his other power, invincibility, is selectively enforced, seemingly at random (he was attacking me when the shocking speed hit him - he went down as if he was stunned,

 

When I went to melee finisher on him, he disappeared - both teleporting and cloaking, and attacked again within 5 seconds, of course getting shocked again, repeat 3 more times until I run out of energy, then he just teleports and auto-hits me.

 

This is another stupid stalker design, just without the bow. I fail to see how it either inspires fear, or creates new challenge - he's the stalker, without a bow. Ignore the minor differences of full versus partial cloak, teleport versus superdash, they're relatively inconsequential. It's also using the BS mechanics of auto-hit and knockdown (a la ancient infested or scorpion harpoon) and auto-damage (bleed proc, even though your shields never went down, anyone? If your shields weren't penetrated, why are you bleeding?)

 

Very disappointed in DE for this garbage, they can do better. Add it to the list of cool concept turned into lame crap because poorly implemented/developed beyond concept (like the Sedaris targets spawning those incredibly lame infested bugs, another stupid idea that now seems permanently attached to the game).

What I would suggest? Kill the invincibility, make the cloak partial, and limit the teleporting, and have them attack in pairs. Now _that_ could prove interesting. moreover, it wouldn't require stupid OP weapon to succeed, either good weapons to overpower, or good tactics to split the pair.

 

But before all that, could they just fix the damn jump having the lowest priority so I don't have to wait a half second after pressing jump to ensure that I jump, before pressing any other action key?

 

All IMO, and YMMV

[CelticMoss]

[Xylia]

Singleplayer trying to kill Lech Kril:

 

BA-BAM! (there goes 30% of Iron Skin)

BA-BAM! (there goes 30% of Iron Skin)

"Doors are locked, we'll have to break in."

BA-BAM! (there goes 30% of Iron Skin)

*replace Iron Skin, kill the stupid overpowered Seeker*

*hear laughter and see red streaks around, roll my eyes*

*walk up to computer, try to unlock the doors, succeed. Meanwhile another Seeker spawned and takes down Iron Skin faster than I can hack the computer*

*get thrown on my back and I get slapped to death 5 seconds later*

 

Yeah, right. Sure, whatever.

 

I think I'm pretty much done with the game right now. Can't do anything solo higher level these days whatsoever. Everything the Grineer has is just so ridiculously overpowered... why are Seekers doing 200 damage per shot? Can someone tell me why they should do that much damage per shot? My Iron Skin is at least 1200 unless they heavily nerfed it. I'm losing 30% every time I hear that stupid "BA-BAM" of that overpowered pistol they use.

 

So I revived and tried to kill the manic... yeah good luck with that. It appears for a split second, whoosh, it's gone. It appears to just teleport around (shooting at the area near where it was doesn't hit it). It appears to be immune to warframe powers (stomp wouldn't touch it), and I hit it 5+ times with a Boltor Prime, doing some 400 damage a shot and it was still alive, still harassing me. Meanwhile, more and more troops are spawning, more Seekers shearing off hundreds of damage every couple seconds.

 

Yeah, I think I'm done with this game. They are just making the Grineer worse and worse. Managed to kill Lech Kril like 4 times... Systems Helmet Helmet Helmet.... same old punishing RNG that won't give you what you need.

[Kasseopea]

Singleplayer trying to kill Lech Kril:

 

BA-BAM! (there goes 30% of Iron Skin)

BA-BAM! (there goes 30% of Iron Skin)

"Doors are locked, we'll have to break in."

BA-BAM! (there goes 30% of Iron Skin)

*replace Iron Skin, kill the stupid overpowered Seeker*

*hear laughter and see red streaks around, roll my eyes*

*walk up to computer, try to unlock the doors, succeed. Meanwhile another Seeker spawned and takes down Iron Skin faster than I can hack the computer*

*get thrown on my back and I get slapped to death 5 seconds later*

 

Yeah, right. Sure, whatever.

 

I think I'm pretty much done with the game right now. Can't do anything solo higher level these days whatsoever. Everything the Grineer has is just so ridiculously overpowered... why are Seekers doing 200 damage per shot? Can someone tell me why they should do that much damage per shot? My Iron Skin is at least 1200 unless they heavily nerfed it. I'm losing 30% every time I hear that stupid "BA-BAM" of that overpowered pistol they use.

 

So I revived and tried to kill the manic... yeah good luck with that. It appears for a split second, whoosh, it's gone. It appears to just teleport around (shooting at the area near where it was doesn't hit it). It appears to be immune to warframe powers (stomp wouldn't touch it), and I hit it 5+ times with a Boltor Prime, doing some 400 damage a shot and it was still alive, still harassing me. Meanwhile, more and more troops are spawning, more Seekers shearing off hundreds of damage every couple seconds.

 

Yeah, I think I'm done with this game. They are just making the Grineer worse and worse. Managed to kill Lech Kril like 4 times... Systems Helmet Helmet Helmet.... same old punishing RNG that won't give you what you need.

 

Well, then use a different Warframe. Rhino is not supposed to be the ultimate one. Use invisibility/invincibility (Loki, Ash, Hydroid) or disables (Ex, Nyx, Hydroid) or superior movement (Nova, Zephyr, Hydroid) or auto-hit abilities (Mirage, Mesa, Hydroid).

 

People go in with their uber-tank frames and think that they should be unkillable - well, sorry, you are not.

 

While i do hate most of DE's decision's guts, i can't approve enough of new, tough enemies. I don't want to do missions, knowing that nothing will stop me anymore. Thats fckn boring as fck.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Kasseopea

[MichaelSD]

Nullifier is BS not a challenge but the topic is about Manic so let's stick to that.

 

I said "As with Nullifier, same annoyance", not let's talk about the nullifier. Sheeesh, how single minded.

[Issxi]

People have problems with the Manic?

 

Challenge isn't a reason to cry kiddies. <3

[Xylia]

People go in with their uber-tank frames and think that they should be unkillable - well, sorry, you are not.

 

Nobody said "Unkillable".

 

However, when I walk into a large room and my 1200+ Iron Skin is gone in 6 seconds or less... then that just gets ridiculous. If I had been something other than Rhino... how long do you think another frame that doesn't have a bullet shield or invisibility would last under the same conditions? Most frames don't have much more than 600 health+ 600 shields. Another frame woulda been full out dead in the same 6 seconds.

 

What's the point of a tank frame if it isn't very tanky whatsoever?

[ThePresident777]

So far it looks to me that Manic is a problem only if one tries to face tank him.

[MichaelSD]

The problem is not the tank frames, but the general tendency to make enemies which ignore Warframe effects and power. With WF looses lot of it's charm for me.

[Admoniter]

I feel my problem with the manic is my same problem with the nullifier. Too many abilities on an enemy make them more a nuisance and annoying than a challenging foe. Overall I love the design, the sound the way he moves but his power set just leads him to being a bother. It would be like if all ancients were toxic disrupting healers, that wouldn't make them a good enemy just annoying. 

 

As it stands provided you stay mobile they aren't that hard to kill, and depending on the tile you are on you can tell where they are even if they are cloaked so you can light them up. I suppose I can give them a point in their favor for encouraging the group to stay together because nothing is easier to shoot than a manic that is locked in place slapping an ally to death. Speaking of which I feel that if they do their pounce and succeed there should either be a way for a player to rebuke them or alternatively have the duration they can pin a player for reduced, nothing is less fun than taking away character control from a player especially for extended stretches of time.

[EmptyDevil]

The Manic wasn't meant to be an enemy you can power spam at to make it easy. Tenno were trained in using guns and sword too. So use them.

[arch111]

I watched a vid of 20 manics in the similacrum just now. They are basically Stalker with a different model?

Teleportation and power-trolling is not new, but this unit must be murder with a little lag.

[Acos]

Your random use of capital letters makes me think of you as randomly shouting in the middle of a speech. Good points otherwise. 

[Llyssa]

I'm not 100% sure whether or not he has an actual instant-kill mechanic, but I will note: he *does* have power-removal, which, when used on valkyr in hysteria, will instantly make her take 100% of the damage she should have taken while in hysteria. This is generally fatal, and is the same reason nullifiers are a hideous bane to her as well.

[fatpig84]

My awful maniac experience.

 

1) Level 15 Chroma in Kiste

2) Throw my little dragon at the terminal. Go forth and loot!

3) Maniac appears. Run back to my dragon. He attacks my dragon for puking on him.

4) Calmly took out a 4 forma Vaykor Marelok.

5) Pwn him in 2 to 4 hits. Maybe the 3rd and forth were due to itchy fingers.

 

That is with bombards and napalms all over the squad.

 

He appear about 2 to 3 times in Kiste when I was leveling Chroma.

He died pretty much the same similar way when 1 of the dudes had enough playing nice and took out his/her golden gun which are typically reserved for special events.

 

No one else was killed.

Kinda like a stalker death.

Edited March 25, 2015 by fatpig84

[SnakeWildlife]

The Manic wasn't meant to be an enemy you can power spam at to make it easy. Tenno were trained in using guns and sword too. So use them.

 

Try much higher level content, that doesnt work.