Consequences For Killing A Synthesis Target

[Oriviagene]

A pointless exercise if u want to synthesis with random commoners

Go solo with loki for easy scan with no disturbance

[YasaiTsume]

Inb4 Simaris Death Squad. 

Spawns with 100% chance after yur third synthesis target kill (counted by system)

[EvilChaosKnight]

I've got a simple yet cruel idea.

Person who killed the target instantly becomes a synthesis target himself. Other players can then "synthesize" said person to get Simarsis standing while the victim simply dies (not just goes into downed state but actually drops ded).

 

I mean Simaris would want to "preserve" tenno as well at some point, wouldn't he? :P

[Taosangel]

My personal problem is my 3 forma sweeper prime shooting MOA to death while I'm running after.

Really hard to get a f......g picture of a stupid running MOA for a big yellow cephalon !

 

 

PS : point here is , can we remove cephalon target from target table of sentinel and kubrow ?

Edited October 29, 2015 by Taosangel

[VictorVVonBotterlat]

From what I read I this post I saw a few ideas that i like:

a) Make the target invincible while in the trap

 

 

b)Make is so that the sentinels/kubrow do not attract the target

 

 

c)Your action have CONSEQUENCE, there i see 2 ideas: 1) turn the player that kill the target into a synthesis target himself (great idea btw)

  (he can finish the mission just fine (no pvp damage but trap will work on him) but if he get scanned, that's an automatic mission fail for him(only).

 

2) give the target a permanent trinity link like ability (whoever damages the target deal nearly no damages but get a loads (possibly more than he the damages he actual dealt) reflected back to them)

 

 

 

PS :I originally came here to post c)2), but you guys just had so much superb ideas I could not resist to make a recap.

PS(2): yes i like parenthesis (a lot(when I say a lot , I mean a lot, lot(very much (in other word I put them everywhere(and I'm precise about it(Lisp precise (about it))))))).

[VictorVVonBotterlat]

Ho ant to those saying "we all kiild a target .... ", "we didn't know what it was" (blabablababa...,I would like to let you know i never killed a target ( a big blue enemy kind of stance out). If you don't know what something is think (you know the brain thingy), don't go gallivanting your big sword (and probably powerful) to the first weird thing you see.

[(XBOX)Archibald Jax]

I have, on occasion, deliberately murdered a few synthesis targets. Solo runs and runs with friends who didn't want to bother with the targets any more that day either. It isn't something I do often, but it is fun to hear Simaris have a meltdown over it now and then. Most of the time I trap and scan for the benefit of my squad whether it helps me or not.

[DSpite]

It's not a broken system, there is nothing to fix.

 

This is like complaining that someone is about to hand you a free glass of orange juice, and I just take it and spill it instead, then you call the cops and tell them to charge me for spilling free orange juice.

 

Orange juice by the way that you can get again 5 minutes later after I'm gone by asking for it again, as many times as you like, as long as there is not another person like me that might take it and maybe drink it first and woe of woes, deny you orange juice for 5 minutes.

 

Yes, officers, I broke the law, I need to be punished for stealing one glass of infinite available free juice.

 

---

 

If you wanted the Synth target so bad, you would have run ahead and found it, gone solo, or at least TALKED to people about it. But noooo, let's punish the heretics.

 

Yea, that's much more reasonable.

[Fukushu]

I don't see why players should be punished for killing synthesis targets for two reasons:

 

1) You want to systhesize a target? Play solo! Don't go into a public game and expect people who could care less about Symaris to leave the target alone because you want to scan it. Personally, I always play solo when I want to get scans done and over with so I don't intrude on any other player's fun.

 

2) This doesn't happen all the time, but sometimes the target glitches out and is counted as an enemy instead of a target, making it impossible to scan. This happened to me three times while getting the Grineer Guardsmen scans, and since it was counted as an enemy for an extermination mission, I had to kill it. Judging by some suggestions in this thread, I should be punished for killing a target because the game screwed me out of a scan because the target glitched? Please, tell me how that's fair.

 

Honestly, I see killing synthesis targets as a way of punishing Simaris scanners who try to force scanning targets down other player's throats. I remember playing in a public game once with three other people; three of us just wanted to kill some Grineer, and the fourth was a Simaris scanner. From the beggining of the mission to when I found the target, he was whining over voice chat about how we should leave the target alone if we found it first so he could get the scan he needed. Trying to be a little hepful, I politely told him he'd be better off getting his scans in a solo game since the target often winds up dead in public games, only to be met with more whining about how we should be nice and not kill the target so he could scan it. This was seriously getting annoying, so when I found the target, I thought I'd prove my point by bringing out my cleavers and cutting it to shreds, and it felt good to do so. ...Until the player who wanted the scan began screaming over voice chat for me to stop killing the target. Being a good sport (though mostly so he'd finally shut up), I stopped and let him get his scan, but I still wish to this day that I had killed that target so he could've learned to either scan solo, or not scan at all.

[DoppelShifter]

With the introduction of Sanctuary, I was excited to see that scanning enemies are now rewarded with reputation, primarily for Cephalon Simaris' Syndicate. However, there is one thing I would like to point out:

PEOPLE ALWAYS TRY TO KILL THE SYNTHESIS TARGET.

 

Out of, say, a hundred games I played since Update 16, less than 5 teams actually bothered to use the Synthesis Scanner, and instead , would DELIBERATELY ATTEMPT TO KILL THE TARGET. As someone who is trying to get Syndicate Standing for the Detect Vulnerabilty and Helios Skin, the biggest disappointment is finally tracking the target, which then gets killed by a teammate.

Obviously, there should be some way to discourage players from killing the target. Maybe an Eximus Platoon or a deduction in reputation for the player who kills a Synthesis target while giving compensation to the other players.

I hope this gets addressed as soon as possible. After going through a whole lot of effort finding a target is a great feeling, BUT TO WATCH AS YOUR TEAMMATES MURDER THE TARGET BEFORE YOU CAN EVEN EQUIP AND AIM YOUR SCANNER ISN'T.

 

I would also add to this another very similar problem: companions automatically killing Synthesis Targets, often in a single attack. More details on this thread: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/554393-what-about-making-companions-specially-kubrows-ignore-synthesis-targerts/

I think there's an uneccesary ammount of "toxic spores" against the OP. Just saying "go play solo" is plain stupid. This is a co-op game. Every objective in this game must revolve around this concept: cooperative gameplay.

If the current model simply makes a griefer go unpunished if they kill the target, then this is not co-op.

If the current model forces you to play Solo in order to be able to scan in peace, then this is not co-op.

If the current model makes players and companions kill the Synthesis Target by accident because they were just filling their role (be it using an AoE technique, like Peacemaker, or triggering your Syndicate AoE, or by copter-slicing through a group that happened to have the target, and so on), then this is not co-op.

You know what's co-op?

Getting scan points for the whole squad, even when that target wasn't yours (the game already does that, btw).

Helping to scan by killing, taunting or disabling the surrounding enemies, so the other player(s) can scan the target more easily.

Dividing your cell to scan the map for the target, specially if the map is too big (a Void Survival) or too confusing (Infested Ship tileset).

Helping newer players when you already know the locations of some of the "rare-spawn rooms" where the target can be hiding itself in.

The act of scanning itself not hampering other players who want to fill the objective (that's more complicated, because it involves some game-side safeguards, like: not counting the target in Exterminate killcounts, not making them too hidden deep into Capture -- yet not in the same room as the Capture Target nor too far away -- spawning it in lesser waves or in-between waves in Interceptions and Defenses, and so on).

Now on the solution to the main issue...

I saw a lot of promising solutions on this thread. Traps making the targets invincible? That's a GENIUS idea. I usually have to rely on Well of Life (since it works better than the current traps), yet the target is still killable (especially by some sentinels with sniper rifles...). Traps shielding the target is an awesome idea indeed.

Negative consequences for killers (probably with a kill/assist balance, to avoid baiting) is also a good idea, specially lore-wise. And I loved the idea of the kill-squad of Helios going to hunt you if you go too far in the killing (not as a "random encounter", though, but actually as a reinforced penalty for killing a target).

For example, you have a negative rep with Symaris (let's say "Reckless"). Note that you are already unable to buy any item locked by rep, which is already a lingering penalty by itself, until you go back to Neutral. Now, in your mission, you kill the target instead of using the scanner. Then Symaris says something like "You are still not fitting for the task provided, Tenno. Now pay for your recklessness while you rethink your actions for the next hunt." And then Symaris can spawn either a bunch of Eximus Helios OR replicated enemies (for example, a mix of Lancers and Crewmen with textures swapped for a glitchy bright hologram-like surface) wielding cephalon-built weapons (Simulor and Gammacor, for example).

As soon as you go back to Neutral, the squads won't appear on target kill until you're considered Reckless again.

If this is coupled with a solution to the Companion issue, synthesis would be so much easier.

Edited November 5, 2015 by DoppelShifter

[(PSN)CrackFoxLegend]

I would also add to this another very similar problem: companions automatically killing Synthesis Targets, often in a single attack. More details on this thread: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/554393-what-about-making-companions-specially-kubrows-ignore-synthesis-targerts/

I think there's an uneccesary ammount of "toxic spores" against the OP. Just saying "go play solo" is plain stupid. This is a co-op game. Every objective in this game must revolve around this concept: cooperative gameplay.

If the current model simply makes a griefer go unpunished if they kill the target, then this is not co-op.

If the current model forces you to play Solo in order to be able to scan in peace, then this is not co-op.

If the current model makes players and companions kill the Synthesis Target by accident because they were just filling their role (be it using an AoE technique, like Peacemaker, or triggering your Syndicate AoE, or by copter-slicing through a group that happened to have the target, and so on), then this is not co-op.

You know what's co-op?

Getting scan points for the whole squad, even when that target wasn't yours (the game already does that, btw).

Helping to scan by killing, taunting or disabling the surrounding enemies, so the other player(s) can scan the target more easily.

Dividing your cell to scan the map for the target, specially if the map is too big (a Void Survival) or too confusing (Infested Ship tileset).

Helping newer players when you already know the locations of some of the "rare-spawn rooms" where the target can be hiding itself in.

The act of scanning itself not hampering other players who want to fill the objective (that's more complicated, because it involves some game-side safeguards, like: not counting the target in Exterminate killcounts, not making them too hidden deep into Capture -- yet not in the same room as the Capture Target nor too far away -- spawning it in lesser waves or in-between waves in Interceptions and Defenses, and so on).

Now on the solution to the main issue...

I saw a lot of promising solutions on this thread. Traps making the targets invincible? That's a GENIUS idea. I usually have to rely on Well of Life (since it works better than the current traps), yet the target is still killable (especially by some sentinels with sniper rifles...). Traps shielding the target is an awesome idea indeed.Negative consequences for killers (probably with a kill/assist balance, to avoid baiting) is also a good idea, specially lore-wise. And I loved the idea of the kill-squad of Helios going to hunt you if you go too far in the killing (not as a "random encounter", though, but actually as a reinforced penalty for killing a target).

For example, you have a negative rep with Symaris (let's say "Reckless"). Note that you are already unable to buy any item locked by rep, which is already a lingering penalty by itself, until you go back to Neutral. Now, in your mission, you kill the target instead of using the scanner. Then Symaris says something like "You are still not fitting for the task provided, Tenno. Now pay for your recklessness while you rethink your actions for the next hunt." And then Symaris can spawn either a bunch of Eximus Helios OR replicated enemies (for example, a mix of Lancers and Crewmen with textures swapped for a glitchy bright hologram-like surface) wielding cephalon-built weapons (Simulor and Gammacor, for example).

As soon as you go back to Neutral, the squads won't appear on target kill until you're considered Reckless again.

If this is coupled with a solution to the Companion issue, synthesis would be so much easier.

Actually, there is only one game mode in warframe that can only be done coop. That is LoR and many players like playing solo otherwise. The day that this game is coop only, a lot of players would be leaving.

[(XBOX)SSJ Dr Tweak]

Yet another argument aboot why clans are good. You need to roll with people you know and are in a party with.

[DSpite]

I would also add to this another very similar problem: companions automatically killing Synthesis Targets, often in a single attack. More details on this thread: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/554393-what-about-making-companions-specially-kubrows-ignore-synthesis-targerts/

I think there's an uneccesary ammount of "toxic spores" against the OP. Just saying "go play solo" is plain stupid. This is a co-op game. Every objective in this game must revolve around this concept: cooperative gameplay.

If the current model simply makes a griefer go unpunished if they kill the target, then this is not co-op.

If the current model forces you to play Solo in order to be able to scan in peace, then this is not co-op.

If the current model makes players and companions kill the Synthesis Target by accident because they were just filling their role (be it using an AoE technique, like Peacemaker, or triggering your Syndicate AoE, or by copter-slicing through a group that happened to have the target, and so on), then this is not co-op.

You know what's co-op?

Getting scan points for the whole squad, even when that target wasn't yours (the game already does that, btw).

Helping to scan by killing, taunting or disabling the surrounding enemies, so the other player(s) can scan the target more easily.

Dividing your cell to scan the map for the target, specially if the map is too big (a Void Survival) or too confusing (Infested Ship tileset).

Helping newer players when you already know the locations of some of the "rare-spawn rooms" where the target can be hiding itself in.

The act of scanning itself not hampering other players who want to fill the objective (that's more complicated, because it involves some game-side safeguards, like: not counting the target in Exterminate killcounts, not making them too hidden deep into Capture -- yet not in the same room as the Capture Target nor too far away -- spawning it in lesser waves or in-between waves in Interceptions and Defenses, and so on).

Now on the solution to the main issue...

I saw a lot of promising solutions on this thread. Traps making the targets invincible? That's a GENIUS idea. I usually have to rely on Well of Life (since it works better than the current traps), yet the target is still killable (especially by some sentinels with sniper rifles...). Traps shielding the target is an awesome idea indeed.

Negative consequences for killers (probably with a kill/assist balance, to avoid baiting) is also a good idea, specially lore-wise. And I loved the idea of the kill-squad of Helios going to hunt you if you go too far in the killing (not as a "random encounter", though, but actually as a reinforced penalty for killing a target).

For example, you have a negative rep with Symaris (let's say "Reckless"). Note that you are already unable to buy any item locked by rep, which is already a lingering penalty by itself, until you go back to Neutral. Now, in your mission, you kill the target instead of using the scanner. Then Symaris says something like "You are still not fitting for the task provided, Tenno. Now pay for your recklessness while you rethink your actions for the next hunt." And then Symaris can spawn either a bunch of Eximus Helios OR replicated enemies (for example, a mix of Lancers and Crewmen with textures swapped for a glitchy bright hologram-like surface) wielding cephalon-built weapons (Simulor and Gammacor, for example).

As soon as you go back to Neutral, the squads won't appear on target kill until you're considered Reckless again.

If this is coupled with a solution to the Companion issue, synthesis would be so much easier.

 

You KNOW what's proper co-op?

 

Doing the damn mission. Which is NOT scanning the target, or collecting medallions, or opening all the chests, or looking for loot crates, or a million other stupid things that players can actually do that have nothing to do with the primary objective.

 

You know what a soldier that abandons a mission in order to do what he wants is called? A Deserter. We should actually be allowed to shoot them, not get punished for wanting to do the primary objective.

 

If you insist on doing your own thing and three others don't want to, then YOU are not playing co-op, YOU are the one holding up the mission, and YOU are the one wasting the time of three other human beings, even when you know fully well, you can just go into another mission and scan all you like on your own.

 

What other absurd solutions do you want to impose on non-existent problems? Do you want the mechanics of Extractions to be changed because people are leaving before you had time to find all the medallions in a map?

 

... and another thing:

 

There is NO consequences for killing a synth target. There is infinite amounts of them. You enter the next map, and another one is offered, that's the most ironic thing. You want to punish players for basically nothing, because all they have really done in inconsequential to the overall scanning progress. They have not killed "the only target you will ever see", so there is no reason to cry over spilled milk when there is an entirely free dairy factory next door to you.

Edited November 6, 2015 by DSpite

[DoppelShifter]

You KNOW what's proper co-op?

 

Doing the damn mission. Which is NOT scanning the target, or collecting medallions, or opening all the chests, or looking for loot crates, or a million other stupid things that players can actually do that have nothing to do with the primary objective.

 

You know what a soldier that abandons a mission in order to do what he wants is called? A Deserter. We should actually be allowed to shoot them, not get punished for wanting to do the primary objective.

 

If you insist on doing your own thing and three others don't want to, then YOU are not playing co-op, YOU are the one holding up the mission, and YOU are the one wasting the time of three other human beings, even when you know fully well, you can just go into another mission and scan all you like on your own.

 

What other absurd solutions do you want to impose on non-existent problems? Do you want the mechanics of Extractions to be changed because people are leaving before you had time to find all the medallions in a map?

 

... and another thing:

 

There is NO consequences for killing a synth target. There is infinite amounts of them. You enter the next map, and another one is offered, that's the most ironic thing. You want to punish players for basically nothing, because all they have really done in inconsequential to the overall scanning progress. They have not killed "the only target you will ever see", so there is no reason to cry over spilled milk when there is an entirely free dairy factory next door to you.

 

There are SO many weird things with your arguments that I'm having some trouble to pick where to start.

You KNOW what's proper co-op?

Doing the damn mission.

 

Uhn... If you realy did read what I wrote, you would have noticed this paragraph:

The act of scanning itself not hampering other players who want to fill the objective (that's more complicated, because it involves some game-side safeguards, like: not counting the target in Exterminate killcounts, not making them too hidden deep into Capture -- yet not in the same room as the Capture Target nor too far away -- spawning it in lesser waves or in-between waves in Interceptions and Defenses, and so on).

 

You know what a soldier that abandons a mission in order to do what he wants is called? A Deserter. We should actually be allowed to shoot them, not get punished for wanting to do the primary objective.

 

Yup. And you know what's not a soldier? A Tenno. As far as we know, Tenno have free will to be mercenaries, vindicators, soldiers, justicars, killers, martial artists, treasure hunters... Just look at the Syndicates and their different principles, or the fact that you can, at your own will, choose to help the Grinner, the Corpus or ignore both.

If you insist on doing your own thing and three others don't want to, then YOU are not playing co-op, YOU are the one holding up the mission, and YOU are the one wasting the time of three other human beings, even when you know fully well, you can just go into another mission and scan all you like on your own.

 

There's a very magical thing that prevents that. You know what it is? Dialog. Some people are indeed pricks and won't listen, but a lot of people are quite reasonable. Just look at the Sechura runs after wave 5 for an example of quick-fire diplomacy between players.

 

What other absurd solutions do you want to impose on non-existent problems? Do you want the mechanics of Extractions to be changed because people are leaving before you had time to find all the medallions in a map?

 

Is this an ad hominem now? You're directing stuff at me instead of my arguments?

 

And for your example, a solution already exists. It's the timer that starts running after half the players reach extraction. I don't know how long you've been around, but that was added as a solution for this very problem of some people extracting while others were still fooling around.

No need to lift toxic spores here.

 

... and another thing:

 

There is NO consequences for killing a synth target. There is infinite amounts of them. You enter the next map, and another one is offered, that's the most ironic thing. You want to punish players for basically nothing, because all they have really done in inconsequential to the overall scanning progress. They have not killed "the only target you will ever see", so there is no reason to cry over spilled milk when there is an entirely free dairy factory next door to you.

 

 

Uhm... If everyone thinks like you, there is indeed a consequence: at best wasted time, at worst you'll never be able to get the scans, because no one will help you in co-op and some targets are borderline impossible to scan solo (like some Infested targets). And no, you can't just assume that everyone will have a clan, or that everyone will manage to recruit a scan squad. Sometimes pug is que only option left.

...That is, if everyone thinks like you, even pugs are not an option, and then this becomes again a solo activity.

Also being polite is always nice.

Edited November 6, 2015 by DoppelShifter

[DSpite]

I'll be polite when people stop dictating to total strangers what they can and can not do in a free to play game, that's the whole point here.

 

Wasted time? Two minute Synth solo missions? You can get a perma-invisi Loki, run a Capture mission. Capture target in under a minute, take another to find Synth, scan and get out.

 

Making DE add extra code to punish players because you can't think outside the box?

And I'm the bad guy?

[bubbabenali]

In my opinion everyone who goes to a open random game for synthesis hunting should get stripped of his/her weaponry and only be equipped with 3 synthesis scanners.

[(PSN)teh1tank]

So OP asking for a big change to the game instead of simply playing solo? Cool story.

[RevenantPrime]

Whoever kills the synthesis target gets a permanent radioactive proc on him allowing him to be gunned down by his "teammates".

 

Fun & practical.

[DoppelShifter]

I'll be polite when people stop dictating to total strangers what they can and can not do in a free to play game, that's the whole point here.

 

Wasted time? Two minute Synth solo missions? You can get a perma-invisi Loki, run a Capture mission. Capture target in under a minute, take another to find Synth, scan and get out.

 

Making DE add extra code to punish players because you can't think outside the box?

And I'm the bad guy?

 

Well, I stated my point, you didn't get it, you were aggressive and there was nothing constructive after that.

I'm defs not staying here to feed the toxic spores.

Good luck with the "play solo" as a solution to everything in a PvE multiplayer co-op game.

[Rivy]

People who are all "don't scan in coop", remember everyone gets rep when a person scans a target so it's actually good for everybody.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

People who are all "don't scan in coop", remember everyone gets rep when a person scans a target so it's actually good for everybody.

I swear they need to make the number bigger with fireworks or something that says THIS IS SHARED XP AND PRIZES!!!

[The_Mustachio]

[MagPrime]

Making the target invulnerable would be the best option, to be honest.

 

No need to punish the uninformed and there is no way to stop a troll that is determined to be a troll.

[(XBOX)Lorewalker1022]

^ actually that's a pretty good idea.

+1

[OneMember]

Synthesis target is more solo content for the game than group content (if not done in pre-made group).