De And Warframe Through Time And Why I Am Dropping My Support From This Game

[noveltyhero]

DISCLAIMER:

All of this here below is based on my personal opinion and experiences, these can vary for you.

 

 

 

Hey guys,

 

No I am not looking for consolidation or sympathy, I am looking to raise attention (well hopefully it will) to DE and the community on the issues of this game, developers and how it changed through time.

 

I realize that the community grew heavily and a lot of veterans left already without looking back, so by this a lot of people may not know how Warframe was when it started out, well let me tell you.

 

Balance issues

You know all these balancing issues we have? They were practically non-existent, because there wasn't anything OP, the game constantly felt like it scaled with you, as you got more mods you became more powerful but so did the enemies which felt really nice.

That is how a lot of MMOs feel like, you go back to help level 1 players and you are a god, at that tier. Now it became a game of "Am I or am I not?" ( a god), because it is very rare that you have to plan something with your team. You go out of cover you get one shot'ed regardless of strength or you go out of cover and you can stay AFK, have a coffee come back and your character is still standing.

 

We also didn't have energy restores and abilities weren't overpowered because of that, energy was more rare and we didn't one hit kill everything with our weapons. Of course time passed and we became more and more reliant on these "strategies", so obviously the community would use these. Can you blame the people who made 50 spreadsheets for maximum effectiveness in combat or DE who consistently ignored this growing issue?

 

My point is, if DE wants complete balance, they need to dedicate a whole major update for it, strip everything down and build it back up with strong foundations as they are doing with PVP.

 

 

Design

There are hundreds, thousands of design ideas on "Fan Concepts" for frames that not only fit within the design aesthetics of the game but also make sense mechanically. The dragon frame yes it has a cool twist of "color changes damage type" but the community made design was 100x more interesting. The initial anteater design for Chroma was somewhat odd, but now it is changed and it looks just like Hydroid, nothing unique added to it. Just looks like a load of rubber clutter dangling along the model.

Sorry to be so blunt, but it is true, one look at the fan concepts section and Chroma could've turned out much better in design.

EDIT: I feel like I needed to clarify this, Hydroid does not look like Chroma, but both look like they've had no direction in body design.

I meant that the models are both similar, the guys didn't know what to make so they added random heavy parts that look like balloons in an attempt to get something. Whereas other models are more interesting, Loki, Mesa etc.

 

A look at the community dragon frame and that one looks far more dragon-like (ferocious, majestic etc.) than the thing we have now.

( https://forums.warfr...update-2092015/ )

 

Applies to Hydroid too, as a water theme'd frame he could've looked more interesting and resemble body parts of fish or sirenes but w/e :

Weapon design however has improved heavily and they are certainly aesthetically pleasing, too bad they are let down on the statistical side. Most of the community has been using the exact same weapon/loadout for over a year.

 

Level design has also gotten much better so kudos to you guys ^^

 

 

The Grind

dum dum duuuuum

 

Yes the grind, it had to come up at some point. Initially me and my friends liked Warframe because you could play it as a casual player or hardcore no life it and still feel like you've progressed and that you're part of the Warframe universe, now however you miss the initial grind fest season for a specific item and good luck to you solo buddy. Try getting Mesa right now, it is not very pleasant. Just like with Hydroid, locking these behind time wasting content is just irritating, if the content was hard then at least it would be our fault but it isn't.

 

Warframe was always grindy, even when it began. But then you also had a smaller goal and you and your friends could set to it 2-3 hours and get it done. Now however it feels like when you've beaten one grind wall another one pops up, so what's the point?

 

Sorry, DE, I've been playing since the day you've opened up on Steam and this game feels grindier than Runescape, something that actually requires you to try and achieve. Problem is, Warframe is not open world so the grind feels much worse because every 15min when you finish your mission to restart it deja vu comes and slaps you in the face.

 

Why is this grind so bad? DE has no idea what they are doing, they have no idea what tier each frame/item is, they have no idea what is to become of their content because they set no goals for it to begin with. However, what irritates me more is how much we (the community in general) stick by their mistakes, tell them how to fix it and they don't fix it.

 

 

 

In conclusion

 

Warfarme has so many issues it is not even funny anymore. Don't get me wrong, I do not regret my time playing Warframe. Fun game but moreover great community, but that is what irks me, the community is so damn good that DE is slowly taking advantage of this. I understand making a game is hard, but the forums here tell you step by step what to do and you still can't do it? Sorry DE, bye bye.

 

Maybe your next game is better, or maybe not. Maybe I will come back some time or maybe I won't but for now, it is more worth it for me to get my games from Humble Bundle or play other F2Ps than to feel like I am working when playing games.

 

 

Again, this is all my personal opinion and feel free to ask any questions or say your views. I will stick around a few days to read any replies but after that adios.

 

Have a wonderful day! :)

Edited April 8, 2015 by Haldos
Removed the namecalling in the disclaimer.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

This is pretty much my story. My friends and I started playing, and we slowly watched it get sucked into this abyss of grind/balance issues, among other things. Every update we had hoped DE would take some time and sort these out, but instead we got false/broken promises (i.e "we don't want warframe to be a grindy game", or "we want all weapons to be a sidegrade, and mastery to mean something." I don't blame them for changing their stance on the sidegrade thing, it really limits what they can then do with weapons, but everything else...), and eventually we all pretty much quit it.

Edited March 29, 2015 by KvotheTheArcane1

[noveltyhero]

This is pretty much my story. My friends and I started playing, and we slowly watched it get sucked into this abyss of grind/balance issues, among other things. Every update we had hoped DE would take some time and sort these out, but instead we got false/broken promises ("we don't want warframe to be a grindy game"), and eventually we all pretty much quit it.

Yes, they keep saying later, later, later. No. Do it now, do it now and later you can do something worthwhile. Feels like Warframe is past its time, for me anyway

Edited April 8, 2015 by D20
Cleaned something that I cleaned above.

[TheErebus.]

I am so happy you didn't devolve into just pointless whining. 

 

All your complaints are quite valid actually, even I (A so called "white knight") has stopped playing WF for a good few weeks now. More games coming out (Bloodborne) are more worthy of my attention.

[EDeN153]

I just wanna say something real quick...

 

Chroma doesn't look like Hydroid at all .-.

[Jahadaya]

NO NOT YOU TOO NOVELTYHERO D:

[noveltyhero]

I just wanna say something real quick...

 

Chroma doesn't look like Hydroid at all .-.

I meant that the models are both similar, the guys didn't know what to make so they added random heavy parts that look like balloons in an attempt to get something. Whereas other models are more interesting, Loki, Mesa etc.

 

A look at the community dragon frame and that one looks far more dragon-like (ferocious, majestic etc.) than the thing we have now.

( https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/37089-a-warframe-concept-the-dragon-20-%E2%80%94-final-update-2092015/ )

 

Applies to Hydroid too, as a water theme'd frame he could've looked more interesting and resemble body parts of fish or sirenes but w/e :/

[Somedude1000]

You have given us meaningful points, solid reasoning and kept a respectful tone while pointing out problems. For that you earn my respect and support, for what it is worth.

[drMightyPotato]

Been playing this game since open beta day one, and while there are points in this post that agree on i have to say i would probably take it more seriously if you didnt start writing things like "DE has no idea about x/y thing" and similar.

Im hardly a white knight(i do have my fair share of deep dark secrets) but imo most of the problems with warframe go into the rapidly growing community.

Yes DE makes mistakes no doubt about it, but most of the times its like this:

CM (community): DE FIX THIS PLOX!

DE: sure (de fixes it according to how they want)
CM: NONONO NOT LIKE THAT (insert random rage comment)! Fix it like this.

DE: might as well try (DE fixes again)
CM: god "#$%&/ DE you fail again. I quit etc, etc.

Ya cant please everyone, its why we are where we are.

[CBAROG]

So sad to see another familiar name leave the game. 

 

DE has no idea what they are doing, they have no idea what tier each frame/item is, they have no idea what is to become of their content because they set no goals for it to begin with. However, what irritates me more is how much we (the community in general) stick by their mistakes, tell them how to fix it and they don't fix it.

That's precisely the problem with the entire game.

[Stratego89]

GET YA' PITCHFORKS AND TORCHES HERE! DON YE' ARMOR KNIGHTS! Wait- This post actually has valid points and praise... Uhm... well this is awkward. FALSE ALARM PEOPLE BACK TO WORK!! *clap clap*

[BrotherIcarus]

It's a shame to see such a well known vet go

[noveltyhero]

Been playing this game since open beta day one, and while there are points in this post that agree on i have to say i would probably take it more seriously if you didnt start writing things like "DE has no idea about x/y thing" and similar.

Im hardly a white knight(i do have my fair share of deep dark secrets) but imo most of the problems with warframe go into the rapidly growing community.

Yes DE makes mistakes no doubt about it, but most of the times its like this:

CM (community): DE FIX THIS PLOX!

DE: sure (de fixes it according to how they want)

CM: NONONO NOT LIKE THAT (insert random rage comment)! Fix it like this.

DE: might as well try (DE fixes again)

CM: god "#$%&/ DE you fail again. I quit etc, etc.

Ya cant please everyone, its why we are where we are.

It is true though, some of the content they release they have not fully decided "Ok this is high tier, so harder to acquire" or even have a strong tiering system that is required for higher end content and enemies. Again that is fine, but there is so much feedback on this forums with such little change on some things (Kubrows, certain sentinels, melee weapons etc.) that could be fixed.

[Egg_Chen]

Corrupted mods was the start of the end, I said it then.

Balancing frame powers is a lot easier when they could add 30% duration, 30% power, 45% range, etc, etc.

What are we at now?

 

184% power

182% duration

75% efficiency

135% range

 

^ just think about the ranges that adds to the balance equation!

 

Yes they have downsides, but until every skill is effected by range, duration, power and efficiency they are downsides you can ignore.

The endless cycle of release, nerf, buff, nerf  is DE fighting the system they introduced.

 

Then add energy restores, primed mods, natural talent, augs that buff each others damage.

It's frankly becoming a trainwreck.

 

Killing Floor 2 can not come soon enough for me.

 

Edit: Goodbye OP, you have raised valid concerns in this thread, and your previous feedback threads have been well thought out.

Enjoy your future gaming ;)

Edited March 29, 2015 by Egg_Chen

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Been playing this game since open beta day one, and while there are points in this post that agree on i have to say i would probably take it more seriously if you didnt start writing things like "DE has no idea about x/y thing" and similar.

Im hardly a white knight(i do have my fair share of deep dark secrets) but imo most of the problems with warframe go into the rapidly growing community.

Yes DE makes mistakes no doubt about it, but most of the times its like this:

CM (community): DE FIX THIS PLOX!

DE: sure (de fixes it according to how they want)

CM: NONONO NOT LIKE THAT (insert random rage comment)! Fix it like this.

DE: might as well try (DE fixes again)

CM: god "#$%&/ DE you fail again. I quit etc, etc.

Ya cant please everyone, its why we are where we are.

See, I disagree here. Take the void + prime dilution. Instead of implementing a token system which had a lot of support, in any of the various fashions that were mentioned, they instead just kept juggling prime locations, over and over and over, until they implemented trading (which still isn't a perfect solution).

 

Killing Floor 2 can not come soon enough for me.

Also literally this. KF1 was nearly perfect imo. An HD remake would have had my support fully. A new version, with better graphics, animations, etc, plus new weapons, etc? HELL FUCKIN YEAH! KF1 was pretty much the go to game to look at coop done right imo.

Edited March 29, 2015 by KvotheTheArcane1

[MechaKnight]

Unusually good feedback compared to recent. I do like how nice the developers have been to players compared to other developers elsewhere, but there is a distinct lack of balance sense all about the game. As much as I like the theme and occasionally enjoy the experience, the reward and optimized gameplay meta make the game feel trivial and bring a lot of balance flaws to light.

 

I will not say this game is the worst grind I've seen, not even close. However, this has to be one of the worst balanced games I've witnessed. All kinds of things are approaching extremes of too powerful or not powerful enough, both for players and NPCs in the game. Often it feels like the gameplay is secondary to the trading card game in the mods, and picking out the right gems of equipment from a huge pile of unbalanced things.

 

There needs to be a point when the game is fixed up in every department one-by-one. The developers seem to be trying, but it's usually very small changes behind far too long of a wait, and unorthodox solutions. Shotguns got their "buff" in a primed base damage mod. There was also a primed crit multiplier mod, but this weapon class doesn't even have an exceptional crit weapon. The cold and electric mods finally got fixed after the longest time, but the developers forgot to fix the Ice Storm mod along the way. Would we have to wait another 12 or so months to change those small digits?

 

The larger community is also responsible for a lot of back-and-forth change. The players keep requesting changes, the developers try to implement them, and some people are still not pleased. It's a problem on both sides: the players sometimes don't give the best feedback, and the developers sometimes don't implement the best solutions. The problem just feeds into itself.

 

It was a well inspired game, but execution needs a lot of work, and the game has been in beta for years. We need more balance, more solid and obvious tiers, more motivation that's driven without fear by limited edition, punishing grind, or gold rush panic.

Edited March 29, 2015 by MechaKnight

[drMightyPotato]

See, I disagree here. Take the void + prime dilution. Instead of implementing a token system which had a lot of support, in any of the various fashions that were mentioned, they instead just kept juggling prime locations, over and over and over, until they implemented trading (which still isn't a perfect solution).

OH yea, this is a thorn in my side. A very big one and one of the very few things that im still fuming over whenever i think about it.

Doesnt change the fact that the community can screw things over just as well as DE can.

Edited March 29, 2015 by Alinna

[noveltyhero]

Killing Floor 2 can not come soon enough for me.

 

Edit: Goodbye OP, you have raised valid concerns in this thread, and your previous feedback threads have been well thought out.

Enjoy your future gaming ;)

Perhaps we meet in KF2 XD

 

Have fun too :D

[xXRampantXx]

I'm sorry to see such a well-known, well-respected player leaving.

 

I pretty much have to agree with your first point, balance is pretty pitiful.  Personally, I avoid using powerful weapons unless I specifically expect to need them, but that is not a solution, just a personal workaround.

 

As for your comments on design, I don't really see any resemblance to Hydroid in Chroma, even after your second post on that but hey, to each his own.

 

In answer to your last point, DE claims they they will nerf the grind, but I think your own answer to that is pretty good...

Yes, they keep saying later, later, later. No. Do it now, do it now and later you can do something worthwhile.

 

 

All in all, you're mostly right (as usual).

[Otaiken]

DE needs a balance team. Not just Scott going "Yeah, I'll look at it." once in a while on stream.

 

DE needs a dedicated balance team of several people and changes coming out at weekly basis along with the hotfixes. If they mess up, fine, revert it week later, balance is a continuous process. But it needs to happen regularly and the community needs to see that... that will lead to less flame and rage where everybody feels like they need to fight tooth and nail for every change as they are so rare.

 

Maybe I'm spoiled by other games... constant balance changes to MOBAs, MMOs, both PvE and PvP. Hell, even single player games get so many tweaks and improvements.

 

DE creates so much content so fast... it breaks my heart to see it obsolete right out of the gate. You can have your tiers but keep things consistent in those tiers at least.

 

It baffles me... honestly, so much stuff and so little polish on it. Bandaids, half done abandoned mechanics it goes on and on...

Edited March 29, 2015 by LocoWithGun

[Rorgal_Sina]

I'm going to flame you not because I'm a white knight, but because of your "design" section.

 

 

That's not a fact. I'm sorry.

[TheErebus.]

Perhaps we meet in KF2 XD

Yes. We all must.

I have 990 hours logged into KF1

[VieuxPappy]

As a beta founder too (remember those times when grineers were on same tiles as corpus hehe?) I can completly understand your point. I stopped playing at about nekros' release and just recently came back (like 2-3 weeks ago) and yes I can agree the game went foward by a lot but the fact still remains: beside grinding for mods/prime parts/rare ressources to craft (which is mostly cancelled out if you have plat to trade beside for ressources), there's not much to do "late game" which warframe was always about since beta. The quests are either super easy or super annoying/grindy (like finding those damm Alad V coordinates in limbo theorem, etc). So for me, I enjoy the game as long as I can (maybe another 2-3 weeks or so I guess) then I'll move on to something else. 

I would say: do the same  OP. Take a break. Go play another game for 2-3 weeks and see if when you come back you can enjoy WF :)

[Catalyst1945]

I agree 100% with you. I feel like Warframe is like a job. I have to play it in order to sustain myself later in it. For example, if you miss one event or like you said, a new frame release, you're screwed when everyone already has it and you have to either trade and pay plat or solo it. Too bad there are few viable solo frames.

[Doom_Bunny]

No, don't go :(

Edited March 29, 2015 by Postal_pat