Is Antimatter Drop Supposed To Randomly Do Pitiful Amounts Of Damage?

[SayonaraChainsaw]

put down the drama masks.

4x Damage in a 15m Radius is already plenty sufficient to instakill an reasonable Level Enemy.

if you nee 32 or 64 or 128x Damage, you should have left the Mission already.

if the Enemies are Primed, you get 16x, which is more than plenty.

getting silly big numbers from entire flocks of Antimatter Drops is certainly amusing, but since it's not really combat useful whatsoever since 99.9999% of the Potential Damage you queue up will be wasted - so i really don't care.

It's used for range.

Do you understand?

RANGE

 

AMD is not effected by range mods, you drop one, shot at it, shoot a few more, start droping them in a line, they all get damage boosts from the previous explosion.

 

This takes skill to master and do in dangerous situations because, if you F*** up, you're out of ammo and probably out of health.

[SayonaraChainsaw]

I did this in Dark Sector PvP to instantly one-shot cores.

 

It's something of a overall buff. Clients get to use AMD now without it becoming useless due to host issues. If it works as intended it'll be fine.

Why can't they just FIX the bugs without RUINING THE ABILITY?

 

But, this is DE, looking at their history there has never been a hotfix that hasn't brought a whole new bunch of worms with it.

Even hotfixes for hotfixes have new bugs.

 

But, I digress, DO NOT DO THIS.

 

Give it it's new sounds and visuals.

Fix the host/client problems.

Don't make it useless along the way.

[Chroia]

if the results are truly career ending I'm sure the discussion will continue.

FWIW:

Maybe I'm just 'playing wrong', but I found that hugely beneficial when leveling up Nova initially.

Don't recall if I had a - aura, maybe rank ~4-5 Redirection and Vitality, a Fleeting Expertise and a crappy damage output with ~rank 5 Serration and 1 elemental mod.

Launching several AMDs at an angle forward and spamming bullets at them - and then peeping out of cover to land them - helped me clear some chokepoints I couldn't manage otherwise.

Also, little did I know, AMD's radiation was a lot more effective than my Slash against Grineer heavies.

Also good as a panic-melee reaction. :P

[taiiat]

-snip-

well, the game isn't Balanced around that. it isn't balanced around ad infinitum.

that Endless Missions still exist, *shrugs*. Digital Extremes doesn't balance around Enemies from Lv1 to lv9999.

-snip-

so then, use your Skill to shoot each one, dump one on some Enemies, and continue the rest on their way as you shoot them a bit more.

[SayonaraChainsaw]

"-snip-"

I'd expect someone who has 10k posts and is a grand master to actually play this game past Saturn.

 

I was wrong

 

Nothing personal, but you're approving nerfs for mai waifu. I can't have that

 

 

~edit: sorry, master*

Edited April 28, 2015 by SayonaraChainsaw

[GottFaust]

well, the game isn't Balanced around that. it isn't balanced around ad infinitum.

that Endless Missions still exist, *shrugs*. Digital Extremes doesn't balance around Enemies from Lv1 to lv9999.

so then, use your Skill to shoot each one, dump one on some Enemies, and continue the rest on their way as you shoot them a bit more.

What are Corrosive Projection, Viral Procs, and/or Corrosive procs?

/debate

[Kontrollo]

Please don't kill  my waifu.

 

Chaining AMDs takes skill, and 90% of Nova players don't even do it.

 

It's not like you can use Nova in PvP, I see literally LITERALLY no reason to nerf this ability.

 

Not yet.

 

 

...

CC and Utility are great, but this further reduces the idea that frames can actually be useful for legitimately dealing damage outside of Mercury.

 

This last line instantly invalidates your entire post in my eyes. Why can't we keep things constructive around here?

 

 

Nyx got her Absorb stacking removed a while ago and she's still fine. I think the benefits outweigh this one drawback of her AMD. I can't host due to my crappy connection and I'd rather have one AMD deal the damage it's supposed to do instead of trying to rely on chaining them for maybe (maybe not) ridiculous amounts of damage.

[Firetempest]

Stopping you right here. There is NO 'reasonable' level. If the game does not stop the mission for you: there is NO 'should have already left'.

It is designed to eventually overwhelm you. You will ALWAYS lose at some point unless there was a unintended manipulation or bug to the endless mode.

If you can no longer use the intended damage your frame gives off to survive. That is the ceiling, and that fluctuates wildly from player to player.

Endless is press your luck.

[taiiat]

actually play this game past Saturn.

at this current time, i expect this game to work from Lv1 to 40 Waves of Defense, 40 Minutes of Survival, 8 rounds of Interception, and some number of Excavation rolls (since the Difficulty doesn't scale anywhere near the same as other endless Modes, 8 Excavators for two sets of AABC is not much more Difficult than when you started the Mision).

pick whatever Missions you want, i expect it to work atleast up till that point. after that, i don't know, considering the current method of Enemy Scaling.

stripping Armor

still doesn't matter once Enemies are in the high 3 digit or 4 digit Level.

which is fine, because there's no reason other than 'can i do it' to go there.

[GottFaust]

at this current time, i expect this game to work from Lv1 to 40 Waves of Defense, 40 Minutes of Survival, 8 rounds of Interception, and some number of Excavation rolls (since the Difficulty doesn't scale anywhere near the same as other endless Modes, 8 Excavators for two sets of AABC is not much more Difficult than when you started the Mision).

pick whatever Missions you want, i expect it to work atleast up till that point. after that, i don't know, considering the current method of Enemy Scaling.

still doesn't matter once Enemies are in the high 3 digit or 4 digit Level.

which is fine, because there's no reason other than 'can i do it' to go there.

You don't know how viral works, do you?

Not yet.

This last line instantly invalidates your entire post in my eyes. Why can't we keep things constructive around here?

Nyx got her Absorb stacking removed a while ago and she's still fine. I think the benefits outweigh this one drawback of her AMD. I can't host due to my crappy connection and I'd rather have one AMD deal the damage it's supposed to do instead of trying to rely on chaining them for maybe (maybe not) ridiculous amounts of damage.

A frame with BOTH of the most powerful CC skills in the game losing damage ramp is in NO WAY comparable to a frame built entirely around damage losing said damage.

Also: what is not constructive about my post? Outside of nova, and valkyr, frame damage falls largely to the wayside when compared to weapons after murcury. This change to Nova leaves only valkyr as a frame with potential to output significant damage on her own, and she's heavily limited by being melee.

Edited April 28, 2015 by GottFaust

[SayonaraChainsaw]

Not yet.

 

 

 

This last line instantly invalidates your entire post in my eyes. Why can't we keep things constructive around here?

 

 

Nyx got her Absorb stacking removed a while ago and she's still fine. I think the benefits outweigh this one drawback of her AMD. I can't host due to my crappy connection and I'd rather have one AMD deal the damage it's supposed to do instead of trying to rely on chaining them for maybe (maybe not) ridiculous amounts of damage.

Some abilities have different numbers and effects for PvP.

Example: Rhinos iron skin

Example 2: Excal's Javelin, which sometimes doesn't even work

Example 3: Mag's pull

Example 4: Volt's ult; and so on and so on.

 

Changing the way an ability works based on PvP in a PvE game is absurd.

 

 

I repeat. The host/client and sound/visual fixes are great and welcomed with open arms.

 

But the nerf? Let me put it like this:

 

"Oh hi Tim, I see you got a new killer metallic paint job for your Cabriolet"

"Yeah it took a long time and cost quite a lot, but it was totally wort- WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING BOB"

"Oh nothing, just bashing in your hood and doors with a baseball bat, you can't have it all, Tim"

 

This is called a metaphor.

Pro tip:

AMD is the Cabriolet

[tcooc]

Chaining antimatter drops is a broken mechanic that lets you gain exponential damage. I'm glad to see this go. Now the only ability that needs to be fixed is Mag's shield polarize.

[SayonaraChainsaw]

at this current time, i expect this game to work from Lv1 to 40 Waves of Defense, 40 Minutes of Survival, 8 rounds of Interception, and some number of Excavation rolls (since the Difficulty doesn't scale anywhere near the same as other endless Modes, 8 Excavators for two sets of AABC is not much more Difficult than when you started the Mision).

pick whatever Missions you want, i expect it to work atleast up till that point. after that, i don't know, considering the current method of Enemy Scaling.

still doesn't matter once Enemies are in the high 3 digit or 4 digit Level.

which is fine, because there's no reason other than 'can i do it' to go there.

Some of us like going past 40 minutes.

Pushing the limits.

It's called having fun. Testing yourself. Improving your skills.

 

If DE intended 40 minutes to be the time limit in survivals, then you'd get a big "Mission Complete" once you hit said time frame.

But, psst, guess what, it doesn't.

 

The game allows you to continue playing and as Gott said, even gives you the tools you need to keep going.

So why wouldn't you?

 

 

Also, as someone who doesn't play higher level missions, what does it even matter to you then?

We who do (play past level 40 enemies) need abilities and mechanics like these to go on, you don't.

[SayonaraChainsaw]

Chaining antimatter drops is a broken mechanic that lets you gain exponential damage. I'm glad to see this go. Now the only ability that needs to be fixed is Mag's shield polarize.

No, it is not.

It is implyed that the ability absorbs all direct damage.

Nowhere does it state that it only absorbs damage from bullets.

[AlienOvermind]

I have an Update to deliver on what's going on with Antimatter Drop (AMD).

 

AMD will have a series of changes/fixes coming in the next Hotfix - this is a preview of what you can expect on paper. The whole ability was given a serious 'under the hood' look, which has led to the following results:

 

- Fixed projectiles level 1-3 having double shimmer visual effects..

- Fixed Antimatter Drop’s collision detection being affected by projectile scale on Host. Increased the collision detection radius for Clients to help compensate.

- Fixed Client projectiles doing 2x damage on contact (not related to Antimatter Drop’s explosion damage).

- Fixed base explosion damage to match the Ability’s scaling explosion damage (was 100, now 100/125/150/200).

- Fixed sometimes doing minimal damage when used by Clients, regardless of how much players pumped into it.

- Fixed low damage as Host or Client if the projectile hits where you are aiming (as opposed to hitting something while trying to get to your aim position).

- Fixed aiming at the projectile not causing it to slow down.

- Explosions from Antimatter Drop will no longer fuel the damage of other nearby AMD projectiles.

- Projectiles from Antimatter Drop will now get brighter as you do damage to it.

- Various changes have been made to improve the visual and audio FX of Antimatter drop.

- Nova will still be able to cast multiple instances of Antimatter Drop at once.

 

Once we get our hands on this we can start a new thread to discuss, it should be coming in 16.4.4

I may be wrong, but this Host-Client stuff looks kinda like bandaid. I believe that AMD orb flight trajectory and amount of damage, done by AMD-user to the orb should never depend on Host. Maybe the detonation moment should be affected by Host, but not steering&damage.

[SayonaraChainsaw]

I may be wrong, but this Host-Client stuff looks kinda like bandaid. I believe that AMD orb flight trajectory and amount of damage, done by AMD-user to the orb should never depend on Host. Maybe the detonation moment should be affected by Host, but not steering&damage.

of course it's a bandaid.

There's a much easier way to fix the host/client bugs that almost all frames have for at lest one ability.

It would also magically fix lags.

And a lot of other miscellaneous bugs.

 

 

Servers.

[taiiat]

You don't know how viral works, do you?

still doesn't matter once Enemies are in the high 3 digit or 4 digit Level.

-snip-

i'm seeing condescending insults is your only capable form of communication.

i long since got bored of playing Missions that last 3 hours. sure, i did it often at one point. but i don't bother anymore.

it sounds like you're saying you don't like that your Toolbox had a Crutch in it, and someone said "that isn't a tool, what is that doing in here?" - and removed it, replacing it with a Tool.

feel free to move on to the next cheesey borderline-exploit thing until that's adjusted as well.

- - - - -

'pushing the limits' happens no matter what those 'limits' are. it is the 'muh numbers' part that's getting in the way of Players.

if, in a alternate reality version of Warframe, we didn't have any Mods - then 'pushing the limits' would still completely exist, but it would simply happen earlier.

yes, so you can't as easily deal 2,147,483,647 Damage to Enemies. doesn't mean you can't stack things and 'push the limits'. this is a misconception here, that 'pushing the limits' only involves higher numbers than you've ever seen before.

when, it really means going into that 'enter at your own risk' territory, and seeing how you fare. nothing more, nothing less.

[GottFaust]

i'm seeing condescending insults is your only capable form of communication.

i long since got bored of playing Missions that last 3 hours. sure, i did it often at one point. but i don't bother anymore.

it sounds like you're saying you don't like that your Toolbox had a Crutch in it, and someone said "that isn't a tool, what is that doing in here?" - and removed it, replacing it with a Tool.

feel free to move on to the next cheesey borderline-exploit thing until that's adjusted as well.

- - - - -

'pushing the limits' happens no matter what those 'limits' are. it is the 'muh numbers' part that's getting in the way of Players.

if, in a alternate reality version of Warframe, we didn't have any Mods - then 'pushing the limits' would still completely exist, but it would simply happen earlier.

yes, so you can't as easily deal 2,147,483,647 Damage to Enemies. doesn't mean you can't stack things and 'push the limits'. this is a misconception here, that 'pushing the limits' only involves higher numbers than you've ever seen before.

when, it really means going into that 'enter at your own risk' territory, and seeing how you fare. nothing more, nothing less.

I'd have thought that someone with 10,000 posts who joined 2 months before I did would know what they're talking about. I guess I was wrong...

You also don't seem to understand the concept of what an exploit or crutch are. Lets also not forget that the game is NOT restricted to <lvl50. If it was: the trial would not exist and defense, survival, extraction, and interception missions would have a hard-cap.

All I'm getting from you here is: "I don't do anything above lvl 50 or use nova at all so nerfing her is a good thing." Kindly take yourself elsewhere, please.

[taiiat]

-snip-

all i'm getting is condescending insults from users who have no intention of holding a discussion.

LV1-45 seems to be the primary balance scope, but personally i expect two Rotations of Pool C to be a reasonable point to reach, even if Digital Extremes doesn't agree with me.

this includes Enemies give or take just breaching 3 digits.

don't limit your definition of 'pushing the limits' to only numbers bigger than you've ever seen before.

'pushing the limits' is going into the 'enter at your own risk' zone.

when Damage 2.0 was pushed to Live and Enemy Levels were compressed (they didn't happen at the same time, but each of these contributed to each other), for months we had complaints about "hnngh why you nerf everything, i can't fight the same Level Enemies as i could before and mop the floor with them meow meow meow".

as those users were stuck in a number rut, only capable of perceiving themselves having 'pushed the limits' if they saw Enemy Levels higher than they had seen previously.

but they were still playing the same time/reward steps as they were previously. still 'pushing the limits' about as much as they were previously.

so if having a discussion is not going to happen - then as someone that invested in Warframe like i did, i would expect you to know more about Human Psychology and know how to avoid falling into the ruts of our own minds and trapping ourselves. as well as understanding the Game Development Process.

or, as i'd much prefer, analytical discussion.

[SayonaraChainsaw]

--//--

AMD as an ability purely exists to deal damage.

It is a tool for dealing damage, this is it's purpose.

Using it properly is not a crutch.

 

Remember, "Stick them with the pointy end."

[DiosGX]

AMD as an ability purely exists to deal damage.

It is a tool for dealing damage, this is it's purpose.

Using it properly is not a crutch.

The problem here is your individual definition of what "using it properly" actually means.

o3o

[GottFaust]

all i'm getting is condescending insults from users who have no intention of holding a discussion.

LV1-45 seems to be the primary balance scope, but personally i expect two Rotations of Pool C to be a reasonable point to reach, even if Digital Extremes doesn't agree with me.

this includes Enemies give or take just breaching 3 digits.

don't limit your definition of 'pushing the limits' to only numbers bigger than you've ever seen before.

'pushing the limits' is going into the 'enter at your own risk' zone.

when Damage 2.0 was pushed to Live and Enemy Levels were compressed (they didn't happen at the same time, but each of these contributed to each other), for months we had complaints about "hnngh why you nerf everything, i can't fight the same Level Enemies as i could before and mop the floor with them meow meow meow".

as those users were stuck in a number rut, only capable of perceiving themselves having 'pushed the limits' if they saw Enemy Levels higher than they had seen previously.

but they were still playing the same time/reward steps as they were previously. still 'pushing the limits' about as much as they were previously.

so if having a discussion is not going to happen - then as someone that invested in Warframe like i did, i would expect you to know more about Human Psychology and know how to avoid falling into the ruts of our own minds and trapping ourselves. as well as understanding the Game Development Process.

or, as i'd much prefer, analytical discussion.

Wait, wait, wait, wait... hold up for one sec...

You honestly think this is the same thing as a stat compression? Honestly? For real? You aren't making this up?

Pro-Tip: stat compressions result in the ENTIRETY of a numberscope being compressed. In this instance it would be damage, health, armor, level, etc. When a SINGLETON gets lowered while the rest remains the same: that singleton has been nerfed.

[SayonaraChainsaw]

all i'm getting is condescending insults from users who have no intention of holding a discussion.

so if having a discussion is not going to happen - then as someone that invested in Warframe like i did, i would expect you to know more about Human Psychology and know how to avoid falling into the ruts of our own minds and trapping ourselves. as well as understanding the Game Development Process.

or, as i'd much prefer, analytical discussion.

Wow there is so much wrong with this.

 

What does you investing in this game have to do with you or me knowing "Human Psychology" (why would you even capitalize that?)

 

And what we are doing is a discussion.

I am about to discuss how you have no idea what you're talking about and are just trying to sound smart.

Which is both pathetic and sad.

 

This is digressing way too much.

 

 

Back to the original discussion of AMD.

Gibe host/client fix.

Gibe new visuals and sound.

Don't gibe unneeded nerf.

[CorruptPhantom]

In my opinion, as a compromise, instead of multiplying the damage absorbed from an AMD explosion into another AMD by 4, they could make it less like 1.5 so that you don't need to make player rage (as much) and so that there are still benefits to this mechanic in the ability, otherwise, making the AMD absorb nothing is kinda over nerf. The minimum that it should do is at least absorb 100% of the explosion damage and not multiply it. Thats the way I see it. This way you can chain the same amount of damage or if you want more, you just shoot it more, its as simple as that!

 

Removing a feature that a minority of nova players use is unnecessary.

 

 

 

And what we are doing is a discussion.

I am about to discuss how you have no idea what you're talking about and are just trying to sound smart.

Which is both pathetic and sad.

 

^this --- but don't you think the rest of his point was valid?

Edited April 28, 2015 by CorruptPhantom

[osuman]

So what we get is nerf to ADM + fixes that had to be done ages ago. Great...