Generally, High Rof Weapons Are Horrid (Except For Spool Up Weapons)

[AlphaSierraMike]

At the moment, I've tried the Grakata, Karak, Dex Furis and Viper. Grakata is borderline usable, even though it drains ammo like it's nothing. Karak is also not that bad, the damage output is somewhat similar to Grakata's, but with a faster reload speed. Dex Furis is... kinda alright, that 100 mag capacity and full ammo reserve is nice.

 

But the Viper though.... Why does it even exist? It takes at least two mags to down an excal, going past 3 mags to down a Frost, and even worse against Chroma, and you only get 5 mags in total. Granted, I'll take the argument that Viper is not meant for heavy units, it's meant for lighter units, but I call bollocks on that, when high damage semi automatics that can easily take both down exist.

 

When you have a weapon that runs out after 30 seconds of use, why bother? People would say that the fast reload of 1.1 second compensates for this. Hell no. Along with the above average fire rate and the low magazine size, the only thing the user would be doing is reloading all day long. It takes around a second to drain an entire mag, a second for the reload. So to even get remotely close to killing an Excal, it takes 2 mags, at 3 seconds, and that's only if you hit all the shots,and good luck with that.

 

So you got a weapon that relies on you getting decently close, that's also a reloading simulator. It's the worst combination you can have on a weapon, a weapon that forces you to reload right next to an enemy.

 

This has the same problem as Sicarus P pre patch, maybe even worse, it takes more than a magazine to kill someone, and Sicarus P was actually capable of killing with one mag, i think, it was just hard to land every burst. But with the Viper, you can't kill anyone with a single mag, unless you get a boatload of headshots, and good luck with that in any situation besides barrel stuffing range.

 

With high RoF weapons in general, I was also thinking that headshot multipliers should be increased, if base damage is not increased. Unless you get decently close, the spread of a high RoF weapon will make you miss more shots if you aim for the head compared to aiming for the body, so it's a decent tradeoff. Either that, or lower headshot multipliers and buff the damage. If the damage is increased to the point of killing at a decent pace, or in Viper's case, a single mag, without headshot multipliers being nerfed, headshots are going to feel very melty.

 

Also, as a side note, lower damage for high damage per shot weapons and increase the headshot multipliers, that way people can't just spam body shots. I just feel like that's how those weapons should be played, accurate shot placements, not spamming 4-5 shots to the body and getting an easy kill.

Edited May 5, 2015 by AlphaSierraMike

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

EDIT: PVP feedback. Never mind my original post.

Yes, the Dex Furis does a terrible 9 damage/shot. Even with the fire rate, you can't kill anyone who knows you're there or is moving. I haven't tried the Kunai, but according to the Arsenal they also do 9 damage/shot with their slower fire rate and small magazine. That's atrocious.

Edited May 5, 2015 by (PS4)WiiConquered

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

This is why my PvP loadout consists of a Latron P and Lex P.

High RoF weapons generally cannot enforce their normal/intended job in PvP, atm.

Though, I must admit, I have rekt and been rekt by the Braton often enough to call that in stable territory, so perhaps, in the PvP team's balance model, there is where the stable territory should be pushed to.

[izzatuw]

This is why my PvP loadout consists of a Latron P and Lex P.

High RoF weapons generally cannot enforce their normal/intended job in PvP, atm.

Though, I must admit, I have rekt and been rekt by the Braton often enough to call that in stable territory, so perhaps, in the PvP team's balance model, there is where the stable territory should be pushed to.

I believe OP was referring to secondaries. The problem with them is that they use too much ammo but the ammo from drops is not enough to consider them even usable. Although I use Braton P myself I'm more than capable of killing a foe with 1-2/4th a mag.

[p3z1]

The kohmak is also bull

 

And auto primaries are in a good place

[AlphaSierraMike]

EDIT: PVP feedback. Never mind my original post.

Yes, the Dex Furis does a terrible 9 damage/shot. Even with the fire rate, you can't kill anyone who knows you're there or is moving. I haven't tried the Kunai, but according to the Arsenal they also do 9 damage/shot with their slower fire rate and small magazine. That's atrocious.

Projectile weapon's stats are really wonky for some reason, they don't show the actual damage, Kunai definitely does higher than 9 damage though, and bows do definitely more than 14 damage even when uncharged.

 

Dex Furis does have that 100 mag, which kinda helps.... I guess, but it's definitely an "in your face" weapon.

 

I believe OP was referring to secondaries. The problem with them is that they use too much ammo but the ammo from drops is not enough to consider them even usable. Although I use Braton P myself I'm more than capable of killing a foe with 1-2/4th a mag.

Mainly Viper, but the trend of high RoF weapons in general is alarming as well. Like, you never see people using Grakatas or Karak, because their accuracy and damage output is far inferior, like you can use a Latron in any situation that a Karak is meant to be good at and beat the S#&$ out of it.

[Dawn11715]

I liked the dual wraith vipers in the original conclave:

Thos two tiny berserker guns that riped you into pieces within half a sec <3

[egregiousRac]

Projectile weapon's stats are really wonky for some reason, they don't show the actual damage, Kunai definitely does higher than 9 damage though, and bows do definitely more than 14 damage even when uncharged.

 

I believe the Kunai and Paris deal predominantly puncture damage, just like their PvE versions. That causes them to deal significantly more damage than listed.

 

The PvP weapons still deal IPS, they just list it combined.

[rockscl]

the viper doesnt fit well the role of damage burst, but i used it a while, and when i came with some gram meat shield at least it worked well to empty his stamina, it worked very well for that

[Burnthesteak87]

With high RoF weapons in general, I was also thinking that headshot multipliers should be increased, if base damage is not increased. Unless you get decently close, the spread of a high RoF weapon will make you miss more shots if you aim for the head compared to aiming for the body, so it's a decent tradeoff. Either that, or lower headshot multipliers and buff the damage. If the damage is increased to the point of killing at a decent pace, or in Viper's case, a single mag, without headshot multipliers being nerfed, headshots are going to feel very melty.

 

Also, as a side note, lower damage for high damage per shot weapons and increase the headshot multipliers, that way people can't just spam body shots. I just feel like that's how those weapons should be played, accurate shot placements, not spamming 4-5 shots to the body and getting an easy kill.

Assuming with "high Rof" you mean Automatic weapons...

...I'd say the opposite, given the fact if you have an high RoF weapon then you will have more chances into landing headshots than with a low Rof, it would be better if the headshot multiplier would be lowered and the damage would stay untouched.

While I also agree with your second statement, High damage per shot weapons should get a decreased damage for bodyshots and a slight increase in headshots.

Actually, Latrons and Sybaris are non-automatic High Rate of Fire weapons.

I would also suggest to reduce the Rate Of Fire for Latrons and Sybaris, by the moment you can simply have Stabilizer (no recoil), an hard mouse and land multiple shots in the same spot in a fraction of second.

TL DR:

Automatic weapons with high RoF = lower Headshot Multiplier, no change on Bodyshots.

Semiautomatic, high damage per shot weapons = slightly higher Headshot damage, lower Bodyshots. Also reduce Rof or heavily increase recoil.

Edited May 5, 2015 by Burnthesteak87

[Renegade343]

I believe the Kunai and Paris deal predominantly puncture damage, just like their PvE versions. That causes them to deal significantly more damage than listed.

That still does not explain the fact on how the Kunai could somehow deal 42 damage to shields. 

[Kontrollo]

Kunai deals 64 damage to shields and 82 damage to Excalibur's health, so it can kill an Excalibur in 3 shots. Projectile weapons' Arsenal stats are wrong right now.

 

 

Note that a lot of the weapons you mention are impact-heavy. Impact is generally inferior to Puncture. These weapons are good against shields, but perform badly against health because of how damage modifiers work against armour.

 

I'm not sure what the deal with that is, exactly. Maybe they're balanced for the upcoming introduction of elemental mods that we were promised? If you could switch from impact to Toxin or Corrosive, they'd certainly be a lot better. Their raw DPS stats don't look that bad (esp. Grakata).

 

But I fully agree with your OP, +1.