VentiGlondi Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 This game doesn't have a whole lot of freedom of choice. You either follow the meta and get rewarded, or choose your thing and get barely anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazzamo Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 On a side note to these horrible sounding ideas, did anybody else kinda get annoyed that in the last dev stream some of them seemed more focused on being silly than telling us about some major changes and additions coming to the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spindle99 Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 On a side note to these horrible sounding ideas, did anybody else kinda get annoyed that in the last dev stream some of them seemed more focused on being silly than telling us about some major changes and additions coming to the game? They were doing that to avoid talking about it, even becca nearly said it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazzamo Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Yeah, I know, that's honestly why it started bugging me since it was smoke screen silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Stormtopia. Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 (edited) Is anybody in here? Good, i hope you have eyes that can roll. Call me T-Bone by the way. I will speculate possibilites too, lol. I'm not saying it's going to happen, but what I'm about to say might not be new, but it's not something that will hurt someone, since some things can be obvious. Whatever do you want or not to think it is too early to tell, we can't ignore the constant threat of amendment of the Charter of the solar system as a random selection of maps for you to play as if this was some kind of, alert mission. Moreover, lack on insurance of what will happen about the clans having dominance in a planetary territory after this, or what will be the future of the relays since almost every planet had one before the Hek event destroyed almost all of them, and if we want to stack up each other now that means one or two would be necessary otherwise your servers would have an ocean of polygons on a single one. Monopoly calls for such, more, restrictive grinding it seem, as the players are burned by the solar concentrator (sun… as choosing opportunity), with means this “hopefully will not be better for the game overall", there fixed for you. I know that many people don't like the current chart, doesn't have the bright sun in the Middle nor asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter either (with would be essential for Archwing missions with transitions to the enemy ship and zap everyone inside during skirmish although this idea may have been though already, since the game could also favor more cinematics for this and please, shake that camera), although i still ask myself what will happen to Liset after this change, maybe nothing, maybe we can still walk, when it could very well be preserved instead, and the map when opened could transport us directly to a new tab with the old nostalgic model of planet selection while the solar system expands from the sun out, preserving then both environments from being obsolete with the old and new features, and the alert and conquest missions tab on the same place as he is currently. Add the Relay music if you want there on the map… I am not original with music selection. The planets don't have the moon around for us to click as a second planetary tab with her nodes, and moons could include only a archwing or lunar excavation mission or strange events missions that need Tenno research or abandoned bases possibly destroyed for some reason under zero gravity with something that gives you oxygen during this expedition on a scary but curious environment, since the sentients are coming as a new enemy type, they could affect both factions corpus and Grineer leaving Lotus a bit surprised or scared regardless of what she knows, with means Ordis could interact also in missions if possible than simply riding the Liset and looking at bloody battles. The star chart is constituted of 200 nodes in total, many of them by each planet are repeated, this separate us, as well as the game lack infrastructure and environment in order to be considered some diversification if at all given the last Devstream and the new aqua world of Uranus with at least will finally have a diversification there, Earth (example) have 3x extermination, either E Prime or Eurasia etc. won’t give you better or shinny resources other than what the planet can offer, so if you declassify 2 would be a step forward, not all planets need a mission to exterminate, not everyone needs defense, each one could have something of uniqueness, Eris is the only planet with the unique mission to burn every invested nest and destroy nodes there, that is at least something, or a mission to make the ship blow. Sorry, i am tired, i wish to have detailed more this, but the text would be more extensive, your eye balls would be red of speed reading, and my english is not native, everything I tried, was trying to create a combination with the old solar map in the modern use of the Liset, with a few other ideas with problably isn't hard to have creativity other than time. By the way, the game need a new hangar, what we have comes from the first time that the game existed, could suck anyone off into space too, we could have a new cinematic with the new hangar? Corpus at the end of this video be like: Edited May 9, 2015 by Dislava-planet-tech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEFLOOOW Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Everything is now Vauban. Every weapon, every frame, ever resource, every mod, every prime, every scan, every Synthesis target, every tileset, every enemy. EVERYTHING is now Vauban. That scares the sh*t out of me... The only reason i have Vauban, is the back to school event... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evanescent Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Okay you have valid points I'll see this new condensed star chart and if I'm wrong about it then good but if I'm right I hate to be here when everybody else crashes cool I'll check it out in the mean time I'm gonna watch some tv series or something and hope that somehow DE is not gonna make a wrong move with this one. That's me right now, mate! :D I say we request DE to roll it out slowly, periodically showcasing its progress so we have time to respond if it goes wrong. Let's put up posts saying how we think De's idea can mesh with ours. And pray hard they don't mess this up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yezzik Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Fixed ~ Oh God, you're right. It's worse than I thought. At least with Vauban when the alert pops up you know what you're getting, and you don't have to gather the mats from random alerts to make a key for a chance at getting something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evanescent Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Is this a good idea though? Do you only fight a fire when you're on fire in bed? Or do you do everything you can to make sure the fire never happens. Let's not wait and see if it's as bad as we think and something the developers are assuming we will hate, and instead lets ask the devs exactly what it is so they can rethink it based on player feedback? Your analogy is bad. The fire is not even remotely here in this case. What you are doing is like never buying a bed so it can't catch fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcceI Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 wth is going on??? What happened to the star chart? I didn't log in the game for a while now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)obsidiancurse Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 On a side note to these horrible sounding ideas, did anybody else kinda get annoyed that in the last dev stream some of them seemed more focused on being silly than telling us about some major changes and additions coming to the game? Just Sheldon being Sheldon but yeah seemed to trying to deflect from Rebecca's concerns. For anyone who hasn't seen the stream they refers to a meeting where Rebecca actually got angry at these proposed changes. That sounds rather ominous to me unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)WiiConquered Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 (edited) This boils down to DE dodging the actual root of the problem: That Warframe is a loot-based game, and all of the good loot is concentrated in a few niche areas. Now that they've finally started talking about spreading the loot out evenly and thereby reducing drop pool dilution, they're jumping on the opportunity to reduce the area over which they need to spread their loot. How surprising. Exactly. It seems like DE is trying to go with the quickest solution instead of the healthiest, something they've done again and again. Here, instead of talking about how to cut out the repeating nodes, add more purpose to the ones left, and then differentiate their missions enough to keep them fresh, they simply swung an axe at the system and cut away everything.People in this thread are claiming every mission was the same, and the tiles were nothing more than a palette swap. But playing on the sprawling Europa tiles feels very different from the compact ship tiles, enough to make them play differently. Playing Corpus, Grineer, and Infested missions also felt very different. Moreover, there were some missions that were unique to a tileset: Mobile Defense on Sedna, Sabotage on Sedna and Earth were all different enough to feel fresh, but DE never did anything to continue differentiating missions on certain tiles. What if Sabotage on Ceres required players to shut down a couple conveyer belt lines while facing heavy resistance? What if Rescue on a ship tile asked you to get the target to a landing bay and stealthily kill the operators (or endanger the target)? What if on Jupiter you couldn't extract the target with the space magic thing we do, so you then (after downing it) had to defend it long enough to let Lotus pull/beam/whatever it out? The missions would feel similar, yes, but there would be enough differences that some people would enjoy certain ones. Moreover, DE started adding rewards to different mission types. Rescue became more popular, Spy became vastly more played, and then they just decided to go with this extreme instead of continuing to do that. They added optional secondary objectives to one mission (Void Sabotage) as well as well-received minibosses, added performance-tiering rewards to another (Spy), and didn't continue down that path. I suppose what they're doing now will get them to their goal much more quickly than thinking through these things, but speed and quality aren't even close to being the same thing. Edited May 9, 2015 by (PS4)WiiConquered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yezzik Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 I've said it before and I'll say it again--just give each Starmap node rewards that people will want to farm for specifically. Do, say, X number of runs of Terminus for reward A, Y runs for reward B and Z runs for reward C. That scatters people across the entire starchart and lets them pick and choose what they want to work toward. Drops like mods and resources could be A rewards, to ensure a suitable baseline for player progression regardless of account age. Prime parts could be B rewards, and then C rewards could be cosmetics and the like to give players reason to keep plugging away at specific missions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooser6 Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 I'm not usually a naysayer buy taking away the ability to choose the mission type is terrible. If this is an attempt to curb farming, I would rather they just throw interception out the door instead of nerfing the entire game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionntan Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 wth is going on??? What happened to the star chart? I didn't log in the game for a while now. A brainstormed idea from devteam for Star 3.0 is brewing rage and worries across the board New Starchart • Hoping to appear in U17 • 300 nodes are being condensed to 20 nodes • There may be time-based instances, such as Vor appearing temporarily, dropping different things each time • Similar to Alerts, but hopefully not something that punishes players for sleeping • There will be some removal of player choice - you will no longer be able to select whichever mission type you want, whenever you want; hopefully this will be better for the game overall • Re-viewing player made quests again and designing the starchart so that these will be able to fit into it; hopefully this will be the answer to players that resent the removal of choice Also post from Rebecca on this topic: In a totally understandable course of action, the remarks and thoughts on the star chart discussions are coming in. Some things worth mentioning - the discussions on air are real-time and candid, the planning is still happening, and the finality exists only in philosophy that 'we want to solve the filler nodes, increase immersion, and appeal to intrinsic/extrinsic goals'. To speak to that philosophy with reference from Steve's notes: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CD3rp_yWEAELtfq.jpg:large And the source of it all: https://youtu.be/j7QVemHYKn4?t=57m40s If it's not obvious from that time stamp - if the only way to achieve this philosophy is to eliminate the freedom of choice we currently have, some of us here take issue with that - which is why we continue to discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsukinoki Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 I imagine DE will have this figured out, although I'm wondering how accessible frames will be for new players. While I do generally trust DE I have a hard time trusting that they've actually figured it out to where its workable for any players. The last time they made a change this big was Update 7 when they changed from the upgrade trees to mods. It took them over a week to make mods actually have a decent chance of dropping. During that week (running tons of missions per day) most people didn't even get 10 mod drops (not different mods, drops in total). It killed gameplay entirely for that period because no one could do anything higher than earth or venus because no one had any mods. And with all the complaints it still took them a week to make it possible to get mods. I see it taking just as long, if not longer, if another situation like that happens where it becomes impossible to get certain resources until the nodes randomly rotate so that you can get them. And good luck having your schedule match up with the resources you need. And that isn't even touching on bosses. With 20 nodes that is no where near enough to handle the boss nodes. So what is going to happen when you're a new player and want a new frame? Just sit there with it being completely impossible to get the frame until RNG decides that that boss node becomes available? Because I see that could cause a hemorrhaging of new players.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WERElektro Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Dat textwall. Do you ever press enter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--.B.--HARDCOREDAVE- Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 *Presses "ENTER". LOL anyway I gave credit to RIOTx for making my wall of text readable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kashuken Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 It is happening because of DE being DE DE end game is the void, once you get into that and start making prime weapons and frames you no longer need the starchart, void still drops mods/parts/credits and resources. Only resource you need is Neural Sensors/OC/Argon crystals and Neurodes and only Jupiter has neural sensors so generally you have to farm that now and again, other resources are easy to farm and now appear in alerts. Since the void is the best place to play the startchart is ignored, higher planets are generally empty and you have to solo them so many don't even bother with them, i have about 50missions to complete and i really do not have to bother anymore and there is no incentive either to finish them unless im really close to a mastery level but i can use a frame/weapon instead and go to a T1 defence which offers better rewards. Community itself proberly complains about all the missions on these planets and that how there is no one left to play with since void>startchart so in the end it is DE doing because the community unwilling to actually play the star chart apart from a few select locations. You could argue that it is dumbing the game down but that generally happens because the community is stupid in the first place so it needs to happen. DE answer so far is to screw the drops in the void to force players out which isn't happening and also collapse the starchart to 10% of what it is now and in typical DE fashion throw in RNG so you cannot pick your fave mission for solo or even group so it is more grindframe, this could also be that they can force archwing and waterwing (better known as S#&$ewing) onto the community but because of how incredibily boring and tedious it is on so many levels, many will complain about this when DE should be fixing bugs and balancing the game overall before releasing more broken content but it is upto DE if they choose to listen or not but they can also bring out the 'beta' phrase to soften the blow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grinmeister Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Well we had a good run, but if this proposed limit on player choice passes, I for one am done. Why instead of limiting hundreds of missions to 20 was no work done to make the rest of the missions more appealing? Or is this merely the devs recognising that there are about 20 missions people play anyway? If then, why not leave us with the ones we do play, at least? Isn't all of this only gonna discourage tons of new players because their options for obtaining a frame is either waiting an unknown (but lilkely very long) period of time or buying it off trade chat for what is most likely hundreds of platinum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)PillarOfWar Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 This game doesn't have a whole lot of freedom of choice. You either follow the meta and get rewarded, or choose your thing and get barely anything. That is so true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KvotheTheArcane1 Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 (edited) On a side note to these horrible sounding ideas, did anybody else kinda get annoyed that in the last dev stream some of them seemed more focused on being silly than telling us about some major changes and additions coming to the game? Welcome to DE, where being silly is put before giving the playerbase info, or time of the day, or gameplay a damn, and RNG is the only way "forward". Edited May 9, 2015 by KvotheTheArcane1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spindle99 Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Your analogy is bad. The fire is not even remotely here in this case. What you are doing is like never buying a bed so it can't catch fire. The new star chart sounds bad, the developers admitted on the stream that they think we will hate it but they are going ahead with it anyway. Some players are saying, wait and see. If it sounds bad and the devs think we will hate it should we not just take a wait and see approach and ask for a heck of a lot more clarification before they spend a lot of money making it and put it into the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverSniper Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 IMO this is only a problem for thos kinda people who only care about MR and farming. ATm there are just to much things to do . Every time I log in I saw 300+ Nodes most of them are the SAME with diferent enemy lvls. I dono why the hell do people complein? cos they lose Draco and they can't farm rep? I'm happy with the upcoming change since it will reduce MY PERSONAL burn out. For me there are to much things to do, so much taht I roughter don't do anything just play random warframes everywhere and build 1 forma each day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibikiGanaha Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Pretty sure this change is going to cause quite a lot of people to leave the game. Some people like certain mission types only. If you can't log on and play an excavation/survival/defense when you want to, that is seriously going to hurt the game. Hopefully I'm just misinterpreting what they said and it won't be as bad as it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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