Proposed Starchart Changes [Megathread]

[Alphafox]

They have a raging arousal (Is the word boner allowed on the forums?) for anything RNG related. So i'm not surprised that they used that word. If atleast they bothered properly explaining what it was and not some vague elucrabation.

 

*Sigh* If anyone else than Rebbeca played the game and understood why this make most players annoyed.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Alphafox

[Genzaio]

... Can you give us some context to this rambling? Are you just going on about RNG in general?

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

How bout we wait and see what actually happens with the star chart before we start b*tching about it, okay?

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Any idea that can throw away the 20+ useless nodes in this game instantly gets my attention. 

 

Whether it can keep my attention is if turns out to be good in practice. Will require additional discussion from devs, examples, conceptions, and test builds to watch, etc.  

 

We will need to wait patiently to find out.

If they wanted to prune nodes, and incredibly simple method would have been limit each planet to 1-2 nodes of each type. No stupid random alert like missions, no stupid key-mission crafting, no uproar from the community about how dumb of a change this is.

[Ailith]

... Can you give us some context to this rambling? Are you just going on about RNG in general?

I assume it's in reference to the upcoming star chart changes (U17).

 

One thing to keep in mind though, they also mentioned "mission crafting". In other words, we will have a "quick play" button (the new system) in addition to using "keys" similar to current Void/Derelict keys to run specific missions. At least, that's what it sounded like they were promoting, we'll still have to wait and see how it unfolds.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Ailith

[ThePresident777]

They spelled it out for us already.

 

New Starchart
• Hoping to appear in U17
• 300 nodes are being condensed to 20 nodes
• There may be time-based instances, such as Vor appearing temporarily, dropping different things each time
• Similar to Alerts, but hopefully not something that punishes players for sleeping
• There will be some removal of player choice - you will no longer be able to select whichever mission type you want, whenever you want; hopefully this will be better for the game overall
• Re-viewing player made quests again and designing the starchart so that these will be able to fit into it; hopefully this will be the answer to players that resent the removal of choice

(Notes thanks to AM-Bunny: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/454266-devstream-52-overview/)

"you will no longer be able to select whichever mission type you want, whenever you want" = random missions like Alerts, Invasions, and Syndicate Missions.

 

"player made quests" = foundry missions like Derelicts, Mesa, Trials.  Foundry is how players make things in Warframe.

 

Grind 9000

[Acos]

I think it's important that we get on this "the world is ending" thing sooner, rather than later. Whatever is happening, there is no doubt that it is 100% bad and needs to be stopped. Unless it isn't, of course. 

[Alphafox]

How bout we wait and see what actually happens with the star chart before we start b*tching about it, okay?

How about we don't stay passive when a system could ruin our freaking experience is right at our door? I don't know about you but prevention is always better than damage control.

[Ruby_Rose_]

Random may be a terrible word, but it is their game after all.

 

I personally say let's just see how it plays out before people start going totally crazy about this.

[Yastin]

How bout we wait and see what actually happens with the star chart before we start b*tching about it, okay?

 

You will note! My semi-coherent rambling is not a complaint! It is an explanation as to why I feel so many of these star-chart threads exist, and the plea of a desperate founder, for clarity, and a transparent answer about the intent of the change, rather than the words "Random" and "Twenty".

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

How bout we wait and see what actually happens with the star chart before we start b*tching about it, okay?

OP isn't doing that. It's not a rant, it's not a rage-fest, it's just a request with an explanation on why it matters.

And the best time to stop something from going wrong is before it starts.

[LABAL]

By the U20 the game will grind itself. Alone.

[Genzaio]

How bout we wait and see what actually happens with the star chart before we start b*tching about it, okay?

 

Best response i've seen yet. Just reading the notes about the star chart changes, it doesnt seem very good but it could be interesting, lets see how it goes. 

 

Although i dont think OP is B*tching, just a bit concerned about the changes, 

Edited May 10, 2015 by Genzaio

[-Upgreid-]

I think 20 nodes is way too huge of a change. I wouldn't mind if we had one node per planet, plus two dark sectors and the boss. If done correctly it would also make hubs useful.

Having multiple excess nodes is the main problem in the chart. Add the fact that only a couple planets have resources that are actually useful, and fewer still that have that item exclusively *cough*JUPITER*cough* and we end up with densely populated areas and ghost towns.

I'd like a dynamic hub-based chart. We go to the hub (solo mode needs to be possible, and better NPCs should be available) and select our mission type (rewards rotate occasionally, and a special node will appear for alerts). This also helps create a truly dynamic chart.

One important part would be the Infested. Rather than weekly 100% infestations, they fight like any other faction, but they gain automatic wins to keep the tenno in check. These would occur once or twice per month. If they win the planet, the planet becomes infested for 36 hours. These fully infested planets would have an exposure cap- the more you play, the more dangerous they become. Phorid would replace the boss. A bypass of the infestation could become available after completion of the Golem trial (one way to make trials more relevant).

Invasions would cause a full planetary takeover, with the winning faction dropping respective research parts (fieldron sample for Corpus, detonite for Grineer). If the original faction loses, they would host a counter-offensive with high-reward missions. The catch would be that your mission type is randomized, so you don't know what you're getting into.

Balor fomorians could also make an appearance, attempting to take out the hub. If the hub falls, the planet is completely unavailable for 24 hours. Playing the law of retribution would make fallen planets available again after completion.

Using the hubs could also make contracts possible. These contracts would work like alerts, but they would have requirements to fulfill (for example, find all caches in the Orokin Derelict). You would accept a contract and fulfill it within the time limit to earn rewards from that planet. In other words, a Jupiter contract may award Neural sensors, even if you complete the contract on Saturn. This allows more freedom of choice for item farming. This same system could be used for syndicates.

This system gives choice, while creating those random, evolving, and dynamic elements that the Dev team said they had always wanted. The system they're proposing gives no choice. Downsizing isn't wrong, but taking away choice is.

Edited May 10, 2015 by UpgradeInProgress

[7grims]

People are jumping the gun, and overly accusing or criticizing stuff that is not implement yet.

Although, I give you 100% of my support, since 2014 I have seen the dev's doing so many bad choices and so many bad features, its better to rant, whine and argue with them, before they deliver yet again another failure.

Edited May 10, 2015 by 7grims

[wtrmlnjuc]

I posted this on reddit earlier, but I'll say it again here:

 

I personally see it as possibly being a good thing. Right now, what we have is a static star chart that, despite being expansive and engaging at first, becomes more and more dead the further we progress. It's all just, "I cleared the node, now what?", like you're playing a campaign. The universe feels dead because nothing happens in it. We're supposed to keep the balance, but the balance is static - it's always the same thing. It's like attacking the same location every time a terrorist attack occurs, and the terrorists and their equipment always appear in the same place. It's like a broken record, where neither the force nor the threat was actually contained to any degree. Alerts and invasions only slightly liven it up, but because the star chart is also static, there's little reason to participate in the more active parts of the game.

 

By randomizing active missions and allowing players to create new missions, the Lotus and the mission type suddenly play a bigger part in the story, and the universe is suddenly more alive. You aren't raiding the same place over and over again because enemies and objectives automagically replenish themselves in that location, you're raiding it because of what issue has surfaced at that location. Plus, surplus materials (coughnanosporescough) can be utilized on accessing certain missions. I could also see a cooler, more 3D UI when it comes to this, like a blip on a random part of the planet indicating the area that an issue has surfaced.

 

---

 

As an added note, player choice isn't being fully removed. Part of it is being sacrificed for a game with better sense of liveliness, especially one that calls itself an MMO. We're still going to be able to craft keys to nodes to access specific missions. As long as costs vs reward is good, then I see no real issue here.

 

P.S. If Steve is reading this, 20 nodes may be a little bit too very very very small.

Edited May 10, 2015 by wtrmlnjuc

[7grims]

I think it's important that we get on this "the world is ending" thing sooner, rather than later. Whatever is happening, there is no doubt that it is 100% bad and needs to be stopped. Unless it isn't, of course. 

 

It isnt 100% bad, people have for a long long time asked to DE to reduce the massive unnecessary amount of nodes, most of them are ghost towns that only divide the players and make the game seem underpopulated.

But DE being DE, and also EXTREME; they exaggerate, going from 300 to 20, and randomizing stuff, they don't have middle grounds nor know how to act in a reasonable fashion, seems yet another classic DE recipe that will end baldly.

[--.B.--HARDCOREDAVE-]

By the U20 the game will grind itself. Alone.

Hahahaha lol that would be sad.

[Wurdyburd]

I don't think people really understand the gravity of this.

Your mission type will be randomized. That means that you can hop into a mission, and be RANDOMLY given one of 14 or so game types, ranging from Defense, to Spy, to Interception.

 

Here's an example: you're a Loki, prepped out for stealth gameplay, silenced weapons, long-duration invisibility, solo-running.

Surprise! You're playing Interception. Quick, roll the dice, on a scale of 1-10 how screwed are you?

If you're not a min-maxer or an experienced player? Answer is probably very.

Inversely, let's say you have a squad outfitted for a long-haul Defense, when you're given a Spy instead. None of you have silenced weapons, but that doesn't matter because you can all roflstomp your way through the delicate layout that is a spy map and cipher it to oblivion and back.

 

What about players who haven't plat'd out their inventory slots, and are limited in their options? What about certain builds for specific map types? What'll happen to grinding for certain resources, or void keys [inb4 void destruction]?

[nickelshark]

Random may be a terrible word, but it is their game after all.

 

I personally say let's just see how it plays out before people start going totally crazy about this.

It may be their game, but we are the ones playing it, not them.

[Yastin]

I don't think people really understand the gravity of this.

Your mission type will be randomized. That means that you can hop into a mission, and be RANDOMLY given one of 14 or so game types, ranging from Defense, to Spy, to Interception.

 

Here's an example: you're a Loki, prepped out for stealth gameplay, silenced weapons, long-duration invisibility, solo-running.

Surprise! You're playing Interception. Quick, roll the dice, on a scale of 1-10 how screwed are you?

If you're not a min-maxer or an experienced player? Answer is probably very.

Inversely, let's say you have a squad outfitted for a long-haul Defense, when you're given a Spy instead. None of you have silenced weapons, but that doesn't matter because you can all roflstomp your way through the delicate layout that is a spy map and cipher it to oblivion and back.

 

What about players who haven't plat'd out their inventory slots, and are limited in their options? What about certain builds for specific map types? What'll happen to grinding for certain resources, or void keys [inb4 void destruction]?

 

See DE? This, right here. You said "The R Word" and now some players think that they will only see mission type once they're already in game. And you've said nothing to disprove such. While his reaction is sort of stretching the plausibility of your change, it's this sort of fear you can squash easily via transparency.

[Ruby_Rose_]

It may be their game, but we are the ones playing it, not them.

True, but I'm sure they do play here and there.

 

I do understand they are doing it because of the 'dead node' issue. There's just so many nodes, and maybe about the 20 they're narrowing it to are about how many node are actively being played. If players were to actually run more that Draco or (insert node name here).. this may not have even come up as an issue.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

...were not spelled out at all. Seriously. It's hard to give feedback on something as nebulous and ill-defined as what we have here.

 

I get it's fashionable to be on the hate train these days, but come on.

I hope you're not, but "You won't be able to pick what mission you want, whenever you want" sounds an awful lot like random missions. As does "elimination of freedom of choice" that Rebecca said in the post-devstream thread.

[Jahadaya]

If DE were to actually put good rewards in more than Draco or (insert node name here).. this may not have even come up as an issue.

FTFY

[Alphafox]

FTFY

You fix things well. I like it.