Proposed Starchart Changes [Megathread]

[(PSN)IMainTheMains]

Excuses. You PS4 players are as good as any PC player right?! So no excuses. o 3o

I said I would help, but I was pointing out to pc players that they can't help because OP is on PS4.

[faustias]

Excuses. You PS4 players are as good as any PC player right?! So no excuses. o 3o

sigh... he said he's on PS4 because the other guy's a PC player and inviting him.

[Aaira]

DE has already shown they cave in with forum whining, so just wait for them to roll the update and then flood the forums with your tears.

 

It'll work, just remember to upvote each other's posts.

[vaugahn]

It's not speculation to expect a businees to increase sales. 

 

Video games aren't like most businesses. If you cut too far either way, you loose. Not enough moneymaking devices means bad profits, but too many moneymaking devices means the same thing. There's a fine line in the middle you have to tread. 

[(PSN)IMainTheMains]

Can we get more details about the clan made missions and what permission someone in the clan would need to make them? (e.g warlord exclusive, architect etc.)

[Fionntan]

DE, please don't do this. Not that they will listen, so it looks like U17 will be a giant sh!itstorm. I need to start preparing popcorn. 

You'll need a big reserve of popcorn and soda for when U17 hits...

 

 

 

From the half baked RNG cake that Rebecca tried to pull out of Steve. How do you plan to hault "pay-to-sleep" when you are practically smothering everything in RNG?

 

Quiette shy explained it better with an example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSwgB-L7-Ow

 

Though this example shows it on a city level. Meanwhile warframe has a whole solar system (+a void/derelict) to cover and only 20 nodes + some player made missions for some reason. How does DE plan to cover all 16 places with 20 nodes and a few player made missions? Unless DE plans to condense all these places into one place. Which I admit could work if there was an open world sort of feel. However Warframe doesn't have that feel, and it would take away the space part of warframe.

 

Then there's this level building thing. It's out of place for Warframe so I'm extremely curious as to how DE will go about it, and how the community will react/use it. Though there was that part (arfter Scott cleared some things) Steve followed on from effiency player's and said something along the lines of: those players would be the ones who would be likely to build missions. This makes it sound like building missions is just going to be labour to help us get around the ever increasing RNG Grind Wall of Warframe.

 

 

 

This system could ONLY work if we could specify what reward we wanted to work toward--and I don't just mean in the crafted missions.

 

 

The choice to pick what I want and reward as a contract sounds perfect. Let others go ham on randomized missions while I do what I enjoy at my leisure. Only thing that they might at juke are the prices on contracts.... 

Edited May 10, 2015 by Fionntan

[Noble_One]

to be honest the star chart needs to be adjusted. for new players its more of a pain since most people dont even run the lowbie planets (please refrain from saying "join a clan or find friends!!".... thats not a solution to the problem, just a band aid). with the star chart smaller, and the void change with it, this will help both vets and new players in playing the game with more people and a lot less waiting. 

 

be serious, how many times has anyone been in recruit/region chat see "need help clear X planet please." it shouldnt be like that.

[Siekier]

This "random" mission thing...

If it's as bad as it sounds it might be the thing that would make me leave warframe for good

[Noble_One]

i can see why you want this separate but these questions are already in the megathread and more than likely is were DE will pull the questions out of. you could have just as easily stated this in the megathread to keep the question seen lol.

[Bazools]

My final say on this matter is...

 

We players need to calm down and trust that DE will implement this properly. The Devs are aware of our concerns and will probably tweak this idea/concept (its still a concept) so that it fulfills their objective without alienating the player base. Lets just wait and see what they come up with and then give proper feedback.

[Vargras]

This is probably more terrifying to me then being in 9/11.

Do everyone a favor and never speak again.

[Blakrana]

As of what I understand currently, I don't have enough information. The suggestion is general at best, but with what we've got so far, here's where I've come to, thought wise.

 

Firstly, lets take the whole 20 node thing. Whilst it is a big drop, if you factor in some permutations, it can be effectively a lot more.

 

Currently, we have a few mission Permutations as is: Nightmare, Invasion, Outbreak, Alert and Syndicate. Quests, as of this time, don't count as they're run and done. Now, with the implied changes to the Void also being factored in, along with the logistic matter of things like the Derelicts going in with that as well theoretically (Void Gate or Derelict Gate, Torsion beams go for either), I suppose we could add Void Gate/Derelict Gate or Void Incursion, whatever you want to slice it, to the list of permutations, for theory sake at least.

 

This would give us our permutations totalling at seven. In effect then, with just those seven permutations treated as being mutually exclusive, that makes those 20 nodes have an effective 140 variations in what they could be.

 

If these permutations are not mutually exclusive, then the variations of these would be exponential. Whether or not that'd be practical or a good idea, I don't know, but that's a lot or variation if true.

 

On a related note, if Archwing becomes a possible mission component, not just a stand alone, that'd bump the possible Permutations to 8, giving 160 variations if mutually exclusive.

 

Then you have mission type. Exterminate, Capture, Spy, Rescue, Deception, Defence, Mobile Defence, Survival, Interception, Excavation, Assassinate and Sabotage. If we then add in Archwing Interception, Exterminate and Sabotage, that comes to about 15. Meaning either some nodes repeat, or theoretically we're looking at the remaining 5 being divided out for repeats of a mission type or other stuff like the Relays/Dojo.

 

Personally I'd like to think that the Relays/Dojo would be separate from the available missions, functioning as your typical hub realm, but I won't rule out what might happen on that front.

 

After that, we have level range. Whilst I don't know what possible boundaries would be what, let's say that it could be broken down as 1-5, 6-10, 11-15, 16-20, 21-25, 26-30, 31-35, 36-40, 41-45 and 46-50. Perhaps that's too refined, perhaps that's not refined enough, but the only other way I can articulate it is akin to Phantasy Star P2, which used mission grades C, B, A and S to determine enemy level and the quality of rewards you could get. The proposed system could be similar.

 

Finally, this brings us to the rewards and, honestly, I have utterly no idea how to begin to approach that from a cursory level. I guess if we were to total the number of available prime parts and then divide that by 20/15, that could give us a theoretical base line for how many variations/cycles for the divying outs of parts? Similar would be done with the Archwing weapon parts, if that were the case. I don't know and I understand this is likely the main thing people are concerned about; knowing where they can go to get things.

 

Perhaps there'd be modifiers within the reward structure, whereby completing a certain optional objective like the 'Spawn challenge' could net a bonus. Perhaps make the spawn challenge shared among all, so everyone knows what needs to be done for everyone to get the reward, encourage some actual co-op assuming people care for that. I don't know. I have no qualifications whatsoever in Game Design or that. I just understand this problem from a Player/Game Master perspective. There's a fine line between 'Well Earned' and 'Drowning in Loot'.

 

Is the removal of a measure of certainty potentially uncomfortable? Yes. I'm somewhat apprehensive myself truth be told, but then the situation is suggesting a more (hypothetically) dynamic environment. Will it deliver? No idea. Will it backfire horrifically? No idea.

 

All I know is that, right now, with the information available, this is one way the result could go. But I'm mostly extrapolating from whole cloth more than anything, so I'm not going to pretend this will necessarily assuage people.

 

Note that, considering the 'Player DIY' mission thing they mentioned, I'm sure there's plenty of people here who can look at the list I've made here and see how these possible combinations could mix things up.

 

In Summary:

 

The upcoming proposed changes to the Starchart are, as of yet, still in discussion and debate. All we know is exceptionally limited, and there's no way to guarantee anything with incomplete, subject to change information, as always. However, based on the information available, I have a vague idea of how it could work.

 

Current nodes have at least 5 permutations; Outbreaks, Invasions, Nightmare, Syndicates and Alerts. Hypothetically, Void/Derelict incursions could be part of the future changes, raising it to a hypothetical 7.

 

Assuming 7 and assuming they are mutually exclusive, the suggested 20 nodes would be a potential 140. If they aren't mutually exclusive modifiers, the variations would be potentially exponential. It would depend on what permutations would be possible to be 'active' alongside each other.

 

Rewards could cycle based on the total number of useful drops (Prime Parts, Forma, Archwing part components, Keys as of this time) divided by the 20 nodes. Sub-objectives within missions could create chances at additional drops; if these were a group objective, it could encourage group play as all benefit from the bonus reward/s.

 

Finally, depending how many ways Level is broken down, could further modify potential missions. How the lines between acceptable brackets would be up for debate, but could be used to correlate given rewards. Last thing needed is high end Prime weapons being available from Level 1-5 missions.

 

With all this in mind, combined with the suggested Player-made missions factor, 20 might not be as necessarily limiting as it might sound. Whether or not it will be anything like I've imagined here or not, no idea. But this is the best way I can understand the proposed changes before further information is revealed.

 

I understand this won't be sufficient for some people, and I empathise with the trepidation concerning the proposed loss of some degree of player choice in mission selection.

 

Any rate, apologies for going on, as always.

[Ishki88]

Waiting for the fire to burn your house when it's just at your doorstep isn't really something smart in my opinion. It's better that people panic, that the change is reconsidered. Wait to see if it become a issue isn't feasible anymore, this is what they always did and now look at what is happening.

 

Prevention is ALWAYS better than damage control, because with damage control the harm is already done.

 

A lot of us feel the same way Alpha, it's just that a lot of us aren't saying anything because we've "had enough."

 

All in all, let DE cook, and let the new players experience the experience

Edited May 10, 2015 by Ishki88

[KvotheTheArcane1]

My final say on this matter is...

 

We players need to calm down and trust that DE will implement this properly. The Devs are aware of our concerns and will probably tweak this idea/concept (its still a concept) so that it fulfills their objective without alienating the player base. Lets just wait and see what they come up with and then give proper feedback.

Yeah, like they did with the mutagen samples? How long did that take to fix? Or removing infested from the starmap, or key/time/grind walls? Devs might change this, but only if they think it'll drastically hurt their player numbers.

[Yitani]

Concerning that most of the nodes are pretty dead . Something needs to be done about that . Sure the idea seems out of place but until U17 comes out it may improve until it is ready to be shipped

[TheErebus.]

WE GOT AN UPDATE FROM STEVE:

 

[TheErebus.]

[Azuregore]

Screw that. Let's panic about something that isn't even close to being finalized and is still open for heavy discussion.

 

 

Just grab one of these (Pictured in the spoiler below) and you'll be just fine.

 

[varais]

i think things are different, only DE can see:

 

1. how many new players are in the game according to the old ones (we all know how long it takes to level up without plat) :-)
2. only DE can see how many of new players are willing to buy plat or how much real money new players pull in which time into warframe

3. we all know that a MR 19 player nearly dont need any plat if he/she levelled everything, that could become a "problem" long- and shortrange for the income of DE

 

i make it short, the whole thing/change has to do with the "diva" marketingboss and the "diva" art-director and - as it was able to be see in the streaming - the "diva" studio-manager, this is not a insult, i know by my longyearjob in the marketingworld that in every company which have to do with marketing some of the people there act like divas FOR money

 

no more, no less, i hope i dont have to explain more, even better, i dont want explain more as:

 

the whole thing depends on money, no more, no less =)

BUT, DE starts the same as EA started with several games and other companies too, they would kill development and lore before the income goes less, means, first the customers with brain are needed, later the customers with needs are needed and last but not least, cashcows are needed

and only the developers can change a game in that direction, and people which love a game will not stand that developement, but this doesnt count, warframe will be old in three years, so, DE has not much choice to fix their income for servers and workers there ...

can anybody follow ? if not, doesnt matter, because finally everything depends on MONEY ! =)))))))

ps: please, DE, dont see my posting as provocation which it is not, but if you dont tell people why you change some things, then the players which loved the game and have lifexpirience have to share their knowing about life )))

thx for understanding ... ,-))

 

 

 

WE GOT AN UPDATE FROM STEVE:

 

 

thats a great posting, steve, but you dont speak clear neither do you give a promise as in 2014 in lifestreams

 

and saying that devstreams are hopes and dreams - since when - is really smart, but not enough to trust =)))))))))))

 

the streams in 2014 was all very dynamic with lots of material what will come and everybody was excited, only less people not

 

but that what happens since december 2014 until today is simply strange =)))))

as well as i can understand DE, the whole things needs money to survive, thats life of today and for the near future ,)

but come back to openheartedness and please guys, use respect to rebecca and dont give strange shows at the devstream, the last one was shocking ... seriously

Edited May 10, 2015 by varais

[Ishki88]

 

 

But 16.5 and Update 17 are literally right around the corner.  One would think they have advanced beyond the cutting wood floor by now.

[Chub_N_Tuck]

tbh there were too many nodes for players to unlock when they first come to Warframe. There really are many unnecessary choice of nodes, and in the perspective of a new player, it looks good. In terms of the UI and feels, I honestly don't know how it's going to be, but I know for sure that it's gonna be better than giving us too many nodes to choose. I've seen players getting tired of unlocking nodes because it's tedious, and end up not unlocking every planets. It's understandable change.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Chuck_NoMiss

[Galuf]

Honestly I'm positive about all that.

 

If maps are kind of like void with actual incentive for clearing those fast. Because these reward temporary access to another, etc... it may get glorious.

 

But it needs to be well polished, not polished like archwing.

 

I'm all up for this, the game actually shows its limits atm with the obnoxious prime parts droprate and ugly trade chat. Maybe taking a new approach would be for the best but everything should be balanced accordingly... So it would require a tremendous amount of balance and general work. :)

 

Also I want to point out that I started the game early with the very old system maps (with dots and lines) and I liked "exploring" and "unlocking" every planet even if missions were not as polished as these are now. Remove that from the newer players and it wouldn't be that great I suppose.

 

(+ previous post sadly)

Edited May 10, 2015 by Galuf

[hawker_mech]

Will this effect MR ? Cuz each node gives MR points

[Noble_One]

But 16.5 and Update 17 are literally right around the corner.  One would think they have advanced beyond the cutting wood floor by now.

16.5 is u17 is a good ways away i wanna say mid june at the earliest possible.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

How about we not overreact like we seem to do every time something different comes to warframe? What you fail to realize is that literally everything that's been a cancer to the game (such as e-gate, viver, and now draco) have been defended to the grave by at least half of the forum goers. This is one of many ways this could have been done. And what you also fail to ask yourself is this. Why do it this way? Do they hate their players? The obvious answer to this question is no. So then what? They're doing this for a reason. Once you figure that reason out, you'll then realize that this change definitely isn't going to "ruin your experience" Unless your experience was sitting at your computer pressing one button until  reward screen popped up. Then yeah, that might be ruined a bit.

Or your experience involved enjoying more than 20 different missions... Because think about it. There are 11 mission types that work with all tilesets (combining Hive and Sabotage, and Survival and Excavation). Multiply that by 13, for the planets, and you have 143. Now add in four types of Archwing missions and you have 147. With the way it sounds now, you'll be able to play 20 of those missions on any given day. Just 20, just 1/7. Only one mission you like? Play it and then log out. No missions you like today? Log out, find a different game. No missions you like again? Play that different game again. Again, no missions you like? Time to start playing that other game first. Maybe you can check on Warframe every week or so... wait... there's only one mission you like. Why are you bothering to check again?

^That would be a worse case scenario, but DE's done absolutely nothing to suggest that it isn't what's going to happen. Which is why we need, as the OP calls it, "a sign".