Proposed Starchart Changes [Megathread]

[----AncientHunter----]

DE should at least make Vote for StarChart 2.0 if its stay or Changed

 

 

Force People/Player for something in game isnt even near Fun or Joy and all games about Fun

 

since Warframe is Really Online game it should have something that at least keep u playing not ,, make u Bored

[Basilisk1991]

Frankly as long as each game mode is accessible on each tile set they're applicable to i honestly have no issue with this, it'll make unlocking nightmare mode for any given planet far simpler. You're less likely to get shafted by a given node and/or planet being less popular, especially when it comes to game modes that highly encourage team play such as defense, hijack, and higher level exterminate mission will help reduce the sheer amount of redundancy of certain modes on any given planet. This is especially true when you take into consideration that there's very little in the way of diversity between any two given nodes on a planet aisde from a slight variance in the level of the enemies therein (If even that), and any discrepancies in enemy type spawn ratios and density. So I'm cautiously optimistic personally.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Basilisk1991

[--.B.--HARDCOREDAVE-]

As I earlier said in my thread that got merged here..

 

"Why can't DE just please both sides of the community cause the way I see it is that the community is divided players that just want immersive game play tied to lore and players that want efficient farming. The solution can be to create a CAMPAIGN MODE for them to implement this so called immersive RNG daily mission rotation system while still having the classic star chart 2.0 in a separate UNIVERSE mode where its a free exploration mode where we still have access to over 100+ nodes they can trim down all the duplicate nodes that they want to remove but let players that like the choice to visit different nodes in planets continue doing so. LET THEM FARM WHAT THEY WANT WHENEVER THEY WANT.

 

That way you can make both sides of the community happy and no one can say my mission selection systems is better or sucks. Cause the way I see it is currently the players are divided into two kinds on this issue the players that want immersive lore based players and the efficient farming type of player why not just make both of the happy? DE you made a great game with LOTS OF CHOICES why LIMIT THOSE WHEN YOU CAN OFFER MORE?

[osheroth]

I say let them bring it. If its absolutely terrible then they will change it just like they always do with things that are not welcomed by the community.


Several people have mentioned it already but I feel like the ones that are raising their arms on this matter above others are the farmers, which is fine I guess, we all enjoy the game differently; just understand there's also a portion of the playerbase that is almost sick of watching hundreds of nodes being empty 24/7 and they have to settle for void or farming spot groups. 

[KvotheTheArcane1]

I say let them bring it. If its absolutely terrible then they will change it just like they always do with things that are not welcomed by the community.

SOME things. I.e. players hate the grind/lack of purpose, and yet, nothing has been done really about that. People hate the time and grind walls. People hate key walls, which is just a combined grind/time wall. So for SOME things, yes they'll change it.

 

HOWEVER, just because "they'll change it", is no reason to put an obviously broken and S#&$ty system into place. When they roll something out, it should be to the best that they can do, and this is obviously not the best they can do.

 

Several people have mentioned it already but I feel like the ones that are raising their arms on this matter above others are the farmers, which is fine I guess, we all enjoy the game differently; just understand there's also a portion of the playerbase that is almost sick of watching hundreds of nodes being empty 24/7 and they have to settle for void or farming spot groups. 

That's like, 90% of warframe. Farming. Nothing is wrong with pruning the ghost town nodes, so long as there's still one of each mission type per tileset. I.e. Eris doesn't need FIVE Hive missions.

Edited May 12, 2015 by KvotheTheArcane1

[smithf]

Getting rid of identicle nodes would make a difference.  It would mean fewer nodes to waste time unlocking and fewer nodes to waste time mousing over, trying to find a squad.  But we would still be wasting time unlocking nodes and mousing over nodes to find a squad because DE would fill the majority of them with crap rewards anyway and mousing over nodes is a horrible way to find fun even if they all had good rewards.  And RNGessus Grind 9000 doesn't solve the problem at all.  It just kills any desire to play.

 

Here is the problem:

0)  Nodes full of crap rewards.

1)  Clicking into and mousing over maps to find missions.

 

Here is the solution, the exact opposite of the problem:

0)  All nodes are rewarding

1)   Node filter so we don't have to see the nodes (i.e. game play) we don't care about.

 

I actually like the filter idea. But I think it could perhaps work with few nodes as well, as long as there are enough dynamic missions (imagine collapsing all nodes on 1 planet into ONE node, where all the previous nodes just appear as missions on that new node, with similar type missions merged).

 

i.e. instead of filtering static nodes, we filter the missions (each node can support many missions).

I am sort of envisioning it as a lot of alert like missions, but filterable (based not just enemy types, levels, mission types, but potentially on expected rewards, resources available as well).

 

So instead of having people who keep asking "where can I can resource X" on chat, we just have to set the filter to list all missions that can possibly yield that resource, and pick one from the list. It can potentially work for "farmers"/"grinders" as well. Just that instead of going to same node on same planet after checking wiki, they can just set the filter correctly and play the same missions over and over again (assuming that most missions are repeatable, and even if current missions expire, new ones which are similar will pop up and populate the list).

 

missions can be fun and rewarding :)

The "rewarding" part is implicitly handled by the filters (where the uninterested part are filtered off, so the player only sees what he/she thinks are "fun" and "rewarding")

[Krion112]

-snip-

I'm in full, active opposition against this, and yet I'm not a farmer. If I don't get whatever it is I want to get out of a mission within 1 or 2 runs, I go do something else. The only thing I've ever farmed were Warframe parts from Bosses, and that's only because it's pretty simple to accomplish. Everything else I've gotten, however, has either been out of luck on the first or second try, or by coincidence.

 

So no, this isn't just the players who farm getting defensive about this, it's a much larger group than that. And given the ratio between Tenno completely supporting the proposed navigation chart and the Tenno in opposition desiring a different concept is about 1:5, I get the feeling it's a majority that is against this.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Krion112

[osheroth]

SOME things. I.e. players hate the grind/lack of purpose, and yet, nothing has been done really about that. People hate the time and grind walls. People hate key walls, which is just a combined grind/time wall. So for SOME things, yes they'll change it.

 

HOWEVER, just because "they'll change it", is no reason to put an obviously broken and S#&$ty system into place. When they roll something out, it should be to the best that they can do, and this is obviously not the best they can do.

 

That's like, 90% of warframe. Farming. Nothing is wrong with pruning the ghost town nodes, so long as there's still one of each mission type per tileset. I.e. Eris doesn't need FIVE Hive missions.

True; thing is we just don't know enough about this change as a whole yet to just demand DE to scrap it completely, and since the hint at removing player choice at an extent has gotten such a huge backlash I don't expect it to make it to the final cut. 

 

While its an implicit part of it I don't agree that it's what defines it; if you want to get more powerful/rich/"complete" then by all means log in strictly to farm until you burn out on the game. I for one will wait until they expand on this matter before I demand anything of them.

Edited May 12, 2015 by osheroth

[(XBOX)LordPuck]

I actually like the filter idea. But I think it could perhaps work with few nodes as well, as long as there are enough dynamic missions (imagine collapsing all nodes on 1 planet into ONE node, where all the previous nodes just appear as missions on that new node, with similar type missions merged).

 

i.e. instead of filtering static nodes, we filter the missions (each node can support many missions).

I am sort of envisioning it as a lot of alert like missions, but filterable (based not just enemy types, levels, mission types, but potentially on expected rewards, resources available as well).

 

So instead of having people who keep asking "where can I can resource X" on chat, we just have to set the filter to list all missions that can possibly yield that resource, and pick one from the list. It can potentially work for "farmers"/"grinders" as well. Just that instead of going to same node on same planet after checking wiki, they can just set the filter correctly and play the same missions over and over again (assuming that most missions are repeatable, and even if current missions expire, new ones which are similar will pop up and populate the list).

 

missions can be fun and rewarding :)

The "rewarding" part is implicitly handled by the filters (where the uninterested part are filtered off, so the player only sees what he/she thinks are "fun" and "rewarding")

hmmmmmmm :)

 

People will still ask where the resources are though lol

[Evanescent]

Why would you care about a few repetitive nodes with worthless rewards that you never play and complained about so suddenly is what I don't understand. Starchart is going to give us actual reason to fight, not go into run random missions and have lotus tell you to do random stuff. 

Would it kill us to see what reveal DE gives on the concept as they slowly realise it into concrete ideas before rioting?

[(PSN)MakoPriest]

I swear i lost brain cells listening to that devstream.

 

I have a better idea why not just make planets not have more then one of the same mission type? with a few planets with exclusive mission types like excavation and hive? 

 

So basically eris would go from 26 to 9 or so nodes. Every planet would have only one of each of the mission types assigned to that planet

[Cubewano]

Why would you care about a few repetitive nodes with worthless rewards that you never play and complained about so suddenly is what I don't understand. Starchart is going to give us actual reason to fight, not go into run random missions and have lotus tell you to do random stuff. 

Would it kill us to see what reveal DE gives on the concept as they slowly realise it into concrete ideas before rioting?

The longer we wait, the less likely the situation is to change if it's an unfavorable one. It's best to beat down the bad concepts before they lay root, or else suffer the consequences. 

 

And it isn't as if the communities reaction isn't helpful, this thread is literally drawing a road-map of what we do and don't want in the coming starchart revamp. If that isn't useful in directing the current "conversations" of this new map mechanic then I don't know what is. 

[smithf]

hmmmmmmm :)

 

People will still ask where the resources are though lol

maybe a search box for node/mission filter.

e.g. want Ferrite? just type "ferrite" into the box....

 

hmmmm... yeah but you are right. There will always be people who can't see the search box or can't be bothered to use the filter and still ask.

well, at least we can reduce the number of questions asked, and have greater confidence that those who still ask such basic questions are trolls/noobs?

[Alphafox]

Why would you care about a few repetitive nodes with worthless rewards that you never play and complained about so suddenly is what I don't understand. Starchart is going to give us actual reason to fight, not go into run random missions and have lotus tell you to do random stuff.

Would it kill us to see what reveal DE gives on the concept as they slowly realise it into concrete ideas before rioting?

Do what you want. Right now what they gave us is crap,this is why people are angry not just for the sake to be angry.

People don't care much about the nodes,they care about more freaking RNG geting add to the game.

Starchart will give us a reason to fight.. I loled. The game is about getting loot geez, stop being delusional.

A change is required indeed but not in the crappy form they proposed and anyone who would think more RNG in that game is really sick to believe it would be good for the players.

If you prefer a crappy idea to be added to get removed again later(or not) then good for you. More RNG is not what the game need. And seriously how the heck more RNG will give us a "purpose" as players?

Edited May 12, 2015 by Alphafox

[(XBOX)LordPuck]

maybe a search box for node/mission filter.

e.g. want Ferrite? just type "ferrite" into the box....

 

hmmmm... yeah but you are right. There will always be people who can't see the search box or can't be bothered to use the filter and still ask.

well, at least we can reduce the number of questions asked, and have greater confidence that those who still ask such basic questions are trolls/noobs?

Couldnt hurt but DE will need to tie it all together.

 

Look in Region... "how to I install/upgrade mods. When does Baro get here? Where is the Relay? Whats a Relay? How do I equip my Nikana Sheaths I bought.... etc."

 

Game needs a CLEAR explaination for NEW players, UPFRONT.

Better Tutorial. Someone mentioned bonuses for completing boss "quests" in 1 run. Why not give a Reward for finishing the ENTIRE Tutorial in 1 run?

Edited May 12, 2015 by (XB1)LordPuck

[(PSN)DanteVincent]

This is beautiful.

No it's not, a diverse menu is different from having phobos MD3 that nobody plays.

 

Also, you wanna take a good example of diversity?

 

BMW, and it gets LOTS of hate because of its diversity in cars. But still, it's why I love it, IMO, haters can barely buy the cheaper models, let alone think about which fits his taste better. Anyways, that's variety done right. Look how successful they are.

 

Warframe? 90% of the starchart is a desert, the 'population' of warframe so to say could be put to better use rather than being divided into things that are not 'essentially' or 'basically' the same, but THE VERY SAME. They are removing things that are identical to each other, and that makes a lot of sense.

Edited May 12, 2015 by (PS4)DanteVincent

[Evanescent]

Do what you want. Right now what they gave us is crap,this is why people are angry not just for the sake to be angry.

People don't care much about the nodes,they care about more freaking RNG geting add to the game.

Starchart will give us a reason to fight.. I loled. The game is about getting loot geez, stop being delusional.

A change is required indeed but not in the crappy form they proposed and anyone who would think more RNG in that game is really sick to believe it would be good for the players.

If you prefer a crappy idea to be added to get removed again later(or not) then good for you. More RNG is not what the game need. And seriously how the heck more RNG will give us a "purpose" as players?

Again, you prove my point, sir.

All your rage is on the assumption of things going the way you envision.

'Crappy idea' and 'whether i prefer to see it get added to get removed'....well again you assume a lot. It's at the stage where it's a newborn idea. Not a CONCEPT. 

 

Please know the difference between the two. Your outburst would have been justified had the idea been a finalised concept; aren't you...i don't know, even a little perturbed at how worked up you are getting at the wisp of a dream that is still not even concrete? That has not yet spawned a line of code? If we shot down every new idea that came along, well my dear, we would still be in the Dark Ages. 

 

I am not against giving feedback. But how about you people stop spreading 'IT'S GONNA KILL THE GAME'-esque panic and start posting how you would like to have it, requesting DE for more info as they work on it and leave a meaningful contribution to the project? I have seen only a few people here and elsewhere who have detailed with great care their concerns, their fears, and what they think should be done should it turn out to indeed be so and so, etc. Those people are the ones DE will listen to; you don't see me rage against them, do you?

 

As for calling me sick, and delusional as I think a reason for fight is important, and as the game is 'all about loot'.....

 

Well, I lol-ed.

 

Because the functions in a game have to be tied down by logical, coherent threads. The new mission type setting sounds appealing to me because it will give that feeling of accomplishment that Warframe only offers currently for getting new loot. It will keep players coming back for more because nothing is same and everything is new, everyday.

[Adorian16]

I spent a little time looking over the tile sets and the missions types that can be played within each. Excluding darksectors and relays there appears to be about 95 different missions. This data also makes some assumptions on what missions could be played within the upcoming underwater tile set. The difference in the amount of missions and the number that will appear in the new star chart makes me sceptical about the changes.

 

I personally think that we will need more than twenty nodes to have a decent experience and there should be easy access to the missions that players currently play the most. This would hopefully remove a large number of grievances with the proposed changes.

 

I do believe that changes are necessary as players and resources are spread to thin, which is making it hard for many players in a variety of different ways. These changes shouldn't just be implemented straight away as they are being done to a critical piece of the game and as such the proposed changes should be reviewed by as many players as possible to see their opinions while at the same time having any future plans for the game's missions, tile sets, bosses and quests taken into consideration to ensure player concerns and future updates don't cause problems that could result in large amounts of negative feedback while at the same time providing a new, easier to use and more enjoyable star chart system

[Rakosta_Kai]

I say let them bring it. If its absolutely terrible then they will change it just like they always do with things that are not welcomed by the community.

 

 

If the bold was true, I'd say give we should give it a whirl and see what happens.

 

But it isn't...

 

 

Several people have mentioned it already but I feel like the ones that are raising their arms on this matter above others are the farmers, which is fine I guess, we all enjoy the game differently; just understand there's also a portion of the playerbase that is almost sick of watching hundreds of nodes being empty 24/7 and they have to settle for void or farming spot groups. 

 

That's simply not true.

Your annoyance with empty mission nodes shouldn't have the right to take my options away from me.

 

My opinions is just as valuable as yours...

 

 

 

True; thing is we just don't know enough about this change as a whole yet to just demand DE to scrap it completely,

 

Yes, we do...

Most of the systems described are already in the game.

It's the Invasion/Alert/Mesa quest mission types writ large.

 

You get to play what they let you, when they let you.

...Or you jump through hoops (presumably with convenience fees).

 

 

...and since the hint at removing player choice at an extent has gotten such a huge backlash I don't expect it to make it to the final cut. 

 

The trend in Warframe is the exact opposite of your expectation...

 

Void loot tables

DMG 2.0

Melee 2.0 charge attacks

Shotguns

Heavy melee

Dark Sectors

The AFK system

Kubrows

 

Actually most of the big stuff in this game gets introduced counter to your stated expectation and is either forgotten or iterated on many months later.

 

 

 

While its an implicit part of it I don't agree that it's what defines it; if you want to get more powerful/rich/"complete" then by all means log in strictly to farm until you burn out on the game. I for one will wait until they expand on this matter before I demand anything of them.

 

What defines it?

 

Narrative?

Progression?

Achievement?

Completion?

 

I'd say that what best defines the game is choice...

 

That's the thing their proposal removes.

 

[homiedudemanguy]

Do guys ever actually play the game? Farming is NECCESARY to get ahead.

because farming is sooo fun. man i cant wait to sit at sechura for 15 mins ulting to get my daily credits. i cant wait to go to draco spamming my ult to finish my rep. i cant wait to spend that kind of time only to find out i dont have enough resources to whatever i need to build and go farm another spot in the same tedious notion to build my weapon. i. just. cant. wait.

[(XBOX)LordPuck]

I spent a little time looking over the tile sets and the missions types that can be played within each. Excluding darksectors and relays there appears to be about 95 different missions. This data also makes some assumptions on what missions could be played within the upcoming underwater tile set. The difference in the amount of missions and the number that will appear in the new star chart makes me sceptical about the changes.

 

I personally think that we will need more than twenty nodes to have a decent experience and there should be easy access to the missions that players currently play the most. This would hopefully remove a large number of grievances with the proposed changes.

 

I do believe that changes are necessary as players and resources are spread to thin, which is making it hard for many players in a variety of different ways. These changes shouldn't just be implemented straight away as they are being done to a critical piece of the game and as such the proposed changes should be reviewed by as many players as possible to see their opinions while at the same time having any future plans for the game's missions, tile sets, bosses and quests taken into consideration to ensure player concerns and future updates don't cause problems that could result in large amounts of negative feedback while at the same time providing a new, easier to use and more enjoyable star chart system

How do you get 95 Gametypes each requiring a node?

 

Alerts, Syndicates, Nightmares,Invasions and Event are on top of other tiles and are RANDOM.

 

Nihghtmare requires you to CLEAR a planet to even see.

Edited May 12, 2015 by (XB1)LordPuck

[Rakosta_Kai]

Again, you prove my point, sir.

All your rage is on the assumption of things going the way you envision.

'Crappy idea' and 'whether i prefer to see it get added to get removed'....well again you assume a lot. It's at the stage where it's a newborn idea. Not a CONCEPT. 

 

Please know the difference between the two.

 

Yeah...

Because they can't possibly have a working concept of something bearing such a striking similarity to systems already in place right now.

Nor could they have a working proto-type of something they've been hinting at for almost 2 months

They couldn't possibly have something worthy to test at this point given that they want to debut it for U17... It's only 16.5

 

...There's no way this isn't anything other than spit-balling at this point.

 

/sarcasm

[letir]

McDonald's head office, the boardroom.

Chairma : gentlemen, ladies, I have called this emergency meeting because I have noticed something seriously wrong with our menu.

Puzzled looks and muttering all round.

Vice chairman: in what way sir? It seems fairly diverse, with most bases covered, something for everyone?

Chairman: that's the problem, it's too diverse.

More puzzled looks

Vice chairman: too diverse sir?

Chairman: yes I'm worried that when a new first time customer walks into a store they wlll be overwhelmed.

Vice chairman: well research shows that people like choice and our wide selection is generly regarded as an advantage over our competitors. I suppose we could get the art guys to tweak the menus a bit and train the staff to point newcomers in the right direction.

Chairman: you are not thinking drasticly enough.

Vice chairman: I'm not?

Chairman: not by a longshot, I propose reducing the menu somewhat, to avoid clutter.

Vice chairman: well I suppose we could prune a little, what do you suggest?

Chairman: well currently we have around 50 sandwiches, I want that reduced to 5.

All: 5!?!?!?

Chairman: yes 5. Research shows that sales mostly consist of the top 5 sandwiches anyway.

Vice chairman: but what about choice? Sure it's understandable that our long term customers know what they want and go straight to their favourites but even so, to reduce the menu to just these top 5....

Chairman: whoa whoa whoa, who said the top 5?

Vice chairman: but you said...

Chairman: I said 5, not top 5. No my plan is to rotate the selection.

All: rotate?!?!?!

Chairman: yes, our sandwich designers have come up with too many great ideas, I'm not going to discard them just becomes no one actually buys them.

Stunned silence.

Vice chairman: so what happens if I fancy say a Big Mac one day and it's not on rotation?

Chairman: tough, you have a veggie burger instead.

Vice chairman: and if I don't like veggie burgers?

Chairman: again, tough, you should like them, they're good for you.

Vice chairman. I not sure that's the attitude we should take to our customers?

Chairman. How about we throw them a bone, for people who are fussy and won't just eat what we tell them, we have some sort of create a sandwich system so for ten quid we make what you want if you are prepared to wait an extra 20 minutes?

Vice chairman: but that's much more inconvenient and expensive them our current system! People are not going to like this.

Chairman: oh I am fully aware that the customers won't like it, I'm still going to do it. Right, shall we vote?

Vice chairman: can I please just propose another quick vote first?

Chairnan: of course.

Vice chairman: all those who have lost faith in the chair please raise your hands.

All raise hands

:)

Beautiful.

[Adorian16]

How do you get 95 Gametypes each requiring a node?

 

Alerts, Syndicates, Nightmares,Invasions and Event are on top of other tiles and are RANDOM.

 

The number is based on the number of missions that can be played in each tile set that we can play along with those that could be played in the future underwater tile set. Each mission in a different tile set is considered separate. An example of this is that there are 10 different tile sets that the exterminate mission type can take place within (Derelict and Void excluded).

The count also doesn't include possible crossfire nodes, invasions, syndicate missions, alerts (tactical or otherwise) and events.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Adorian16

[Larkary]

I could fully understand trimming it down to one of each mission type a planet that supports that mission type( Hive would be Eris only still), but make it where you have all missions available from the start except the boss who unlocks after finishing each mission type for the planet. Invasions could affect all nodes at once and still be cleared one by one. This would help condense things and provide more of a sense of progression for newer players. It would lead to hopefully more people playing more missions types rather than the same mission over and over. The biggest problem is that the rewards aren't equal across missions, so more people want to run something like Draco than a simple Mobile Defense. If the map was condensed a tiny bit and then the rewards were made equal across the board, with more rewards giving you reason to do non-void missions, you would see the problems begin to disappear without needing to alienate the player base.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Larkary