Proposed Starchart Changes [Megathread]

[Chub_N_Tuck]

On another thought, are there really that few people playing WF?

 

If there really are those thousands and thousands of active players that they boasted with, then why are there any ghost towns at all?

Isn't it simply answered by the lack of purpose of most of starchart nodes? Isn't it obvious that people don't want to run random nodes that have no rewards? I don't run it because I want to run other things. If the rewards are scattered, I'd be glad to run them. Just because even millions and millions play a game, it doesn't mean they will do any of the nodes provided in the starchart. if something isn't giving you the right reward, you wouldn't play it. They are people too, they aren't just brainless playerbase.

 

The entire focus of purpose and objectives change, and the way people choose missions will be so much different. I'm looking forward to the update a lot.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Chuck_NoMiss

[CaptainBAMF]

Lol really your supporting the idea of bosses appearing randomly? Have you thought about the newer players wanting to farm a specific frame only to realize oh dear I missed it 3 times in a day cause of work or I had to go out and then us vets telling them you know it wasn't like this before back then we had access to these bosses and we could TAXI or HELP players anytime complete them and not be AT THE MERCY OF RNG. Of course it won't be bad for us vets we have all the frames already and all the weps and everything this game has to offer think about the newbies starting it and how much FRUSTRATION they are gonna go through with all the RNG. If you were asked to restart your account back to zero have nothing and start farming everything again would you want to farm and rely on RNG based timed missions to farm for what you want to farm given that we all have LIVES outside warframe? Think about that.

 

EDIT: Even if they do appear once in AM or PM what if the player isn't able to go online during the TIMED instance they appear what then waste of the day for the player farming what they want? Did you like farming VAUBAN for months that's what you want for all frames now timed boss alerts that appear TWICE a day imagine all the FRUSTRATION and RAGE people will say like "WTF I missed saryn boss in sedna again why is my life like this!?!"

 

I do not believe all bosses should appear randomly. I believe we should have some special rotating bosses, kinda like PSO2 Dark Faltz, or something to that nature. Assuming i had ment all the bosses is kinda a big jump

[Lokime]

On another thought, are there really that few people playing WF?

 

If there really are those thousands and thousands of active players that they boasted with, then why are there any ghost towns at all?

Because most of the nodes are useless, they don't give anything especial.

[Spindle99]

On another thought, are there really that few people playing WF?

 

If there really are those thousands and thousands of active players that they boasted with, then why are there any ghost towns at all?

 

They have around 20k players per day on steam, which is the biggest basic platform.   They have more than enough players.

 

The problem is that there is no need to do most of the nodes, that's a failing of the game design not really a low player issue.

[Rakosta_Kai]

-snip-

 

Reducing the star-chart to 20 nodes isn't going to accomplish any of those goals.

 It certainly isn't going to save players from themselves in regard to seeking those wanted items.

 Fewer choices doesn't equate into more choice... Those new choices you mention won't be player choices.

 

In fact, given what little we know of mob drop rates, such a reduction not accompanied by other meaningful changes makes things worse.

  Is the drop rate Gobal? Maybe

  Is there a drop reset timer? Maybe

  What is the drop chance? No longer disclosed

 

At this point, We only know what mobs drop what items... Everything else is anecdotal.

 

Given what we know of player habits, people are still going to opt to play in pre-mades or private because it reduces that chance of the random Leeroy Jenkins, Zippy McIgottagofast's, P4TW's, and etc that don't mesh with your play style or intent.

 

 

If positive change is the goal, then reducing the number of nodes (20 would still be too low) would definitely be a start.

But...

It would need to be accompanied by a myriad of other changes that positively affect a rewarding game experience though:

 It would need to offer avenues of self determination (choice).

 It should make us want to play together.

 It should make us actively endeavor to not act like complete butt-holes while playing with others.

 It should allow us to seek others who most closely mesh with our play style.

 

Transparency

  What are the specific chances of an item dropping?

  Inside what level bands?

Difficulty

  With 3 or 4 difficulty settings, those 20 nodes become 60 or 80. Same flavor, different servings

  Will drop rarity chances be affected by the climb in difficulty?

 

Reward

  Will a token system be put in place for the less lucky?

  Can drop chance/quality be modified by either Mastery Rank, Items, or boosters?

 

Mission generator

How robust can it be made?

How rewarding (other than XP) will it be?

 

Player Commendations

  It is a thing? 

It was on the drawing board

  Can it be a thing?

Who knows

  Could rewards be tied to it?

Would be nice

  Can it be made exploit proof?

I think so... Other games make it work.

 

 

 

I don't think anyone is arguing that the star-chart isn't bloated...

Reducing the current number down to 20 cuts way past the point of just removing the planetary redundancy though.

 

People are complaining about the proposed node loss because it represents a definite reduction of choice and a probable loss to efficiency on their own terms.

 

Until that is addressed, pushback is natural.

[(PSN)excat_56]

I have avoided posting until this thread has slowed down, due to 85% of the posts being pure complaints with absolutely no constructive input, and the good posts there have been, are lost many pages deep into emotional and thoughtless outbursts. I hope DE has someone to comb though this to pull out the genuinely written suggestions to weigh those aside from the rest. 

 

Nevertheless, my input:

 

I do think adding another element of RNG is actually a good thing in this case, it will keep things interesting, and can open many new doors for all players. (Stay with me though, don't bail from that one line). I do personally think reducing the node count to 20 is a little over ambitious though. Drawing a diagram would be much easier than typing my idea out, but I just don't have the time to be able to do that right now, so words will have to work. 

 

Idea and theory:

 

Each planet currently has multiple's of each different mission type - fact. 

We can do without having 3 different spy missions, or 2 different survivals, or 3 different deceptions, on each planet.

 

Proposal:

Use the rng element as the tileset. Take Saturn for instance. Instead of having both Mimas and Cassini, let rng choose the tileset, you would just have a Saturn : Survival node. This would then drastically reduce the node count for each plant by 50%+, but still give the players freedom to choose where they want to play at any given time based upon what their needs for the day are. This would also unlock the ability for when you choose a certain node, to get sent to the void. If you select a survival on Saturn, the base levels of Saturn correspond with the base levels of T1 survival. So you have the rng chance to get sent there, OR you can equip a "survival" void key into your gear slot as a sort of guarantee of getting sent there. What this would do is enable all drops from enemies to be the same drops from the HOST planet, so the void would then be dropping plastids and o-cells (or whatever the hos planet resources are) from enemies, along with void drops (argon crystals). This would really help players in the grind for resources. This would also reduce the grind for those really hard to get tower keys, as the keys would become generic "survival", "defense", "interception" keys. This would then also give DE a chance to implement NEW void missions and tilesets. T1-T4 void interceptions, Void deceptions, Void spy missions, Void hijack....every mission we have should have a void counter part. With this giving DE the ability to add more Void missions, it would reduce the drop tables in other very heavy diluted drop table orientated tower rotations. Everyone has the ONE prime part or void drop that their personal RNJesus seems to have blessed us with beyond belief. Mine tends to be forma...then more forma....and more forma, and as RNJesus's personal form of humor, an uncommon fusion core (REALLY, FROM THE VOID?!?!). I can't get away from it. 

 

For this to work, there would need to be some type of trigger as well. To take survival for instance, when you hit 5 minutes, (if your rng hits) Lotus then tells you "I've detected a rift in the VOID, do you dare enter to see what rewards await you?". You then fight your way to the VOID rift and jump though to continue. This gives you the option as a team, or solo, to then go over into the Void to continue your mission, or to stay on your current tile set (but remember, the void will now be dropping the HOST planet's resources). For defense, at wave 5 if your rng hits, you then get prompted in some sort of the same fashion. Or in the middle of a hijack, a void rift opens up 100 meters in front of your Rover in some dramatic animation, and you, your team, and your rover, continue your hijack through the wastelands (a comb of both void and delerict) of the void. Etc...etc...

 

A system like this would also keep lower ranked (as in rank 0-3 guys) out of the void in the beginning, as T1 levels wouldn't start to match up with the current node levels until Jupiter (I believe). The only element that would have to change, is to unlock a planet in the beginning, you would need to fully clear the previous planet, at least the first few planets for the genuine hands on experience of learning warframe. Idea for this: Mercury and Earth both must fully be cleared before it will unlock the next planets, then after that, you can hop and skip around the nodes as you will. The thing is, condensing the nodes like in my above comment, it would reduce how long that would take, so it isn't such a daunting task for a new player. Just to throw out a number (no I didn't count nodes, this is just a number example), it would reduce the node count to clear Earth and Mercury from 40 nodes, to say 15-18. That would look much more appealing as a new guy to me for sure. It would actually seem manageable, and with the reduction in nodes, new players would actually be able to find random groups playing the "defense" node, or "mobile defense" node on those planets, as everyone is playing the same node on that planet. 

 

I think mission crafting for bosses would be a horrible idea, for the fact as a new player, you are just locked behind that much more of a grind. As is, new players are hurt by the current grind, the grind should be on the higher ranked veteran end game players. Players shouldn't be tired of the grind before they hit rank 10. Mission crafting should be for mid ranks and up, and yield special rewards. (This could be a way to re integrate old event mods). Once you hit around rank 6 or 7, you have so many nav coords you will never use, we need something to use those on! If you could mission craft to unlock a special harder "boss mode" against all the bosses though, that adds elements and new dynamics to the fight, that would be cool (if the reward was worth it). 

 

TL:DR: Please read. My idea integrates many of the changes DE has talked about, all into one! 

[Firetempest]

I'm pretty concerned about new players. They can be stuck on Mercury for quite awhile. Yet they want all tile sets to be possibly played at any difficulty. So with a small pool of 20ish nodes. How can they not be bored as hell within a hour if the missions only cycle daily to weekly?

I could see it being 4 tiers of 20 depending on your gear loadout. Though they really need to revise conclave ratings. So if your decked to the nines with 1000+ conclave. Every node is a different IV tier challenge.

Though this would screw solo people on fast leveling as one or two low lvl items would likely bring your total score down to Tier III or II hosting.

BUT, you could be invited to a higher mission to be carried. And would keep you from messing up random higher groups by showing up in low gear with no mods so you can run around being useless. And the opposite is true of vets jumping into a low random mission and speed wiping the map in a single #4 leaving new players nothing to actually do unless invited to do so.

 

I could perhaps live with 20 nodes. multiplied up into 4~ tiers of difficulty based on your current gear. So long as at least every one currently presented on the map is relevant to me at the same time.

But in this idea. Should each tier of difficulty be exactly the same mission/tile/enemy. Or should each tier offer its own random grouping of 20 mission/tile/enemy.

Being the same would make it easy to find out wants going on with the map that day but...

Being different would offer more chances to experience a map you could call "fun".

[Taipion]

Isn't it simply answered by the lack of purpose of most of starchart nodes? Isn't it obvious that people don't want to run random nodes that have no rewards? I don't run it because I want to run other things. If the rewards are scattered, I'd be glad to run them. Just because even millions and millions play a game, it doesn't mean they will do any of the nodes provided in the starchart. if something isn't giving you the right reward, you wouldn't play it. They are people too, they aren't just brainless playerbase.

 

The entire focus of purpose and objectives change, and the way people choose missions will be so much different. I'm looking forward to the update a lot.

Well, I don't know how it is clustered, but sometimes there are only 2-3 groups even for helene, and nothing for draco as an example, which, assuming "millions" of players, would mean that players are clustered on different physical or virtual servers, which would not be a bad thing, except THEN you see those ghost towns, whereas if all mission creations/joining would go over one system, assuming even only ...100k players, you would never see any mission without people playing it.

 

So as it stands, either there are just a handful of people playing WF, or DE can't manage the players in a meaningful way, thereby creating those ghost towns themself.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Taipion

[S.T.M.P.D]

They might be planning to make bigger story and progression events quest-based, make it more of a campaign. I'd love it if we got a special quest to unlock every Warframe, and then a questline involving a specific boss, so we got to know the boss more, got to find them interesting and then come to loathe them over the proper time.

Just a thought.

[BlazeKitteh]

Needs to be reduced to 30 nodes not 20, since mastery rank is 30 too, and weapon/warframe level is also 30, make everything 30!  

 

damn this thread is getting alot of pages, on a more serious note, I dont really mind what DE does next, thats not to say im not worried ofc, i'm hoping its a payday 2 style of mission scan thing (im sure its been mentioned alot here by now (secret hope for tiny liset control around space like the mass effect 3 scan thing where reapers chase you, but thats just my imagination goin wild)), for now im just gonna wait and see what happens

Edited May 12, 2015 by BlazeKitteh

[CatPhoenix]

I will have to chime in with Quiette Shy and others here, if they want to do this, go ahead and make an almost identical copy of PayDay2 system and have one or more nodes rotate out every 1-5 minutes.  In the last dev stream, it was said that the nodes would rotate every day/week, but the update frequency should be a bit more frequent than that.  To use an in game example, Earth rotates between day and night every four hours, the nodes on the new map should be rotate around worse case at least that much.

 

And, I'm sure the syndicate notes will still be rotated every 24 hours as well... who know what will happen with nightmare.  To make it even more like Payday, have additional difficulty levels for nodes.

 

The only main issue I have with this is... how much lower level content will there be for new/starter players?

[ThePresident777]

If its a mission i dont want, i will quit it....over and over again till I get what I want.

 

And then you will quit Warframe when you get sick and tired of quitting missions, just like everyone quits Nightmare Mode once they have the NM mods.

 

DE's "idea" is a recipe for disaster.

Edited May 12, 2015 by ThePresident777

[Ultimus]

I'm aware I probably need more details for this, but I'm not pleased with what I'm hearing so far. The game is setup that farming is basically a requirement, and eliminating the ability to get the materials you actually need is shooting a good portion of the player base in the foot for the sake of what? Streamlining? Punishing powerfarming? What is the justification for this?

[Yezzik]

Because most of the nodes are useless, they don't give anything especial.

 

There's the problem. Most nodes are worthless, and the Void nodes are overloaded with goodies.

There's a middle ground here that doesn't involve obliterating the entire starchart.

[(XBOX)LordPuck]

I will have to chime in with Quiette Shy and others here, if they want to do this, go ahead and make an almost identical copy of PayDay2 system and have one or more nodes rotate out every 1-5 minutes.  In the last dev stream, it was said that the nodes would rotate every day/week, but the update frequency should be a bit more frequent than that.  To use an in game example, Earth rotates between day and night every four hours, the nodes on the new map should be rotate around worse case at least that much.

 

And, I'm sure the syndicate notes will still be rotated every 24 hours as well... who know what will happen with nightmare.  To make it even more like Payday, have additional difficulty levels for nodes.

 

The only main issue I have with this is... how much lower level content will there be for new/starter players?

Third person to mention PayDay2 system for crafting missions.

[ErudiusNacht]

-snip-

This is epic. Can I use this in my class?

That aside, this perfectly demonstrates what will happen with 20 nodes.

It is never a good business idea to remove customer choice. The concept worked with payday2 because

1. Payday2 is not F2P. WF needs players to login and microtransactions (if you can call Prime Access "micro") to continue. 20 nodes will kill play times, if not player interest

2. Payday2 is not a massive grind. Well, as compared to WF.

3. Payday2 doesn't have clans. Clans also play a role since dojos need resources and places to train new players.

Unfortunately, speaking from experience as a Tenno since 2013, I think this will push through.

Never sacrifice product quality just to entice new customers. But hey, Perfect World much?

Edited May 12, 2015 by ErudiusNacht

[letir]

Before you can have structure to bring weapons, mods and powers into line with the strength of the enemies, you have to be able to group people. As stated in b+c above, you can't do that when there's only one person per node for 99% of the nodes. You have to condense people first, THEN you can improve the way they're chosen by the game, and eachother. Otherwise you and the game are both just choosing between one option and no group. 300->20 accomplishes that.

No, i'm not. I'm soloed this game up to T4.

 

Yeah, coop function can be nice for coop game, that's true. But 300>20 is not a real option, especially when DE planning to mix it with RNG. It's too drastical, too rash, especially when developers just saying: "Yeah, reduction of player choice is bad and we know what. But, maybe, it will be better for the game".

[ThePresident777]

What is so important about getting rid of the ghost towns?  How do ghost towns stop anybody from Draco all day long?

[(PSN)excat_56]

What is so important about getting rid of the ghost towns?  How do ghost towns stop anybody from Draco all day long?

 

 

Because they would get rid of Draco being on the map every time you log in. 

[(PSN)Pharen]

u do realize this game is all about farm right?? if ure not a "farmer", then ure just a guy who will play this game like once a month, not interested in anything, and yet the real players have to put up with guys like you (cz DE has no idea what to do and will do random S#&$)

First, learn how to spell. Secondly no, not everyone is a farmer or the slander you just posted. Some people can play a game without feeling the need to shortcut there way to everything and then complain there's nothing left to do.

[vaugahn]

What is so important about getting rid of the ghost towns?

 

What is so important about keeping the ghost towns?

[letir]

What is so important about keeping the ghost towns?

Tourist attraction?

[Rexlars]

First, learn how to spell. Secondly no, not everyone is a farmer or the slander you just posted. Some people can play a game without feeling the need to shortcut there way to everything and then complain there's nothing left to do.

 

Farming =/= shortcutting, just fyi.

[motorfirebox]

This is hilarious. Everyone who's complaining about the upcoming starchart talks as if the details of the whole thing have already been laid out. But then when they say why they don't like it... they've all got different ideas about what it's going to be like. Some people think you won't know what mission type you're entering until you load into the tileset. Some people think it's going to be like a whole starchart full of alerts, with random missions on every node.

 

The new starchart has been given only the faintest of descriptions, so far. It's apparent from the discussion that even DE hasn't finished nailing it down completely. If you want to be upset at what's been announced, that's fine. But for the love of mike, stop making stuff up and then getting mad about the things you just made up.

[(PSN)Kitehighland]

This is hilarious. Everyone who's complaining about the upcoming starchart talks as if the details of the whole thing have already been laid out. But then when they say why they don't like it... they've all got different ideas about what it's going to be like. Some people think you won't know what mission type you're entering until you load into the tileset. Some people think it's going to be like a whole starchart full of alerts, with random missions on every node.

 

The new starchart has been given only the faintest of descriptions, so far. It's apparent from the discussion that even DE hasn't finished nailing it down completely. If you want to be upset at what's been announced, that's fine. But for the love of mike, stop making stuff up and then getting mad about the things you just made up.

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