Annihilation Has Become Cephelon Capture...explanation Follows

[Pendragon1951]

To explain the above first let me preface this with a few thoughts. I'm a 64 year old guy have loved comics and games all my life, the first experience I had with PVP was with friends who would put together a "Land Party" and play a Doom mod that let us play against each other. I wasn't very good, but it was fun. Tons of years later I found Warframe and have been playing since March of 2013 and I am MR16 and here again I tried out PVP which early on I actually found fun, still not amazing but enough to hold my own.

      After a while it began to degenerate into who can get to the energy the quickest so you can spam your powers and the purity that was PVP was kinda lost. Then Annihilation came along and to my surprise I saw less of using powers and more of actually using gun and blade, sure I saw a few Rhinos use charge and maybe one or two Excals use Slash Dash, but there was no sense of how fast can I get to the energy it was more of hunting your opponent.

      Which finally brings me to my topic. All this week I have played Annihilation and I began to see the same thing, guys not really hunting opponents but trying to get to the energy first. I don't say this in response to getting killed by powers, but I mourn the loss of the purity of PVP in Annihilation. It makes practical sense to use your powers if you can I just feel what would it be like if PVP in Warframe was old school, just blade and gun. Personally speaking I for one would think it would be more fun or at the very least lets us choose what type of game it would be, powers or no powers. I spoke to a few guys during the match and they agreed having no powers in PVP would be fine. I think it would be both refreshing and more of a challenge if we had no powers in PVP, just gun and blade, I think powers have become a crutch in PVP and makes us more reliant on our powers than our skill IMHO.

[Surtur]

The sad truth. 

 

I wonder what it would be like to add a cool down on top of the energy cost for skills. Dota style. 

 

Do note that I am not saying that Warframe should be more like dota, but that dota is a very balanced game and warframe PvP is in need of more balance

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

IMO the problem is that too many abilities in PVP are just lose buttons. Instead of giving players a small window or way to avoid them, many just make you lose and nothing else. Players should always have the ability to avoid other player attacks; having energy shouldn't automatically grant you kills.

[Pendragon1951]

i just finished playing a couple of matches in Annihilation and same thing, slash dash slash dash over and over again, I told them I was not going to use any powers, which for me was more fun. If they had just health balls I would be ok with that, but I still think they should get rid of pwers all together in PVP, lets see what kind of skill you have then:)

[rockscl]

fyi the blocking mod stops the whole slash dash damage before breaking the your shield

[Pendragon1951]

@Rockscl My point is I don't think powers showed be used in PVP because as I've said players start to relie on them so much that it becomes like capture, who can get to the energy first and spam powers. There is no skill in using powers in PVP, the skill is being able to kill another player with just gun and blade.

[Zeally]

i just finished playing a couple of matches in Annihilation and same thing, slash dash slash dash over and over again, I told them I was not going to use any powers, which for me was more fun. If they had just health balls I would be ok with that, but I still think they should get rid of pwers all together in PVP, lets see what kind of skill you have then:)

Why complain if you're purposely gimping yourself in favor of your enemy? There's always going to be a meta unless you give every one the same loadout and force them to play that way. And do you know what that ultimately leads to?

A stale dead game.

[-InV-igo95862]

Haven't I just played against you? I was black and red Excalibur. I think you were Rhino

[elele]

a "Land Party" 

 

This made me smile.

 

I wish I could still play games when I'm 64.

[Phasedragon]

This made me smile.

 

I wish I could still play games when I'm 64.

 

Nursing homes are gonna be 24/7 lan parties when we get older. Can't wait.

[Thalahssalyst]

As i say in other topics, the game that people wanted without energy is not warframe, using energy or not, is not "skillfully", gun play and melee gameplay is not "skillfully".
The people have the same chances to get energy, and prevent the player to do that, if u know that people camp the energy, counter, learn how, adap.
Disable energy on pvp, or making a limit on that again, its going to limit the player choice and "fun", not everyone enjoy to play with guns, or melee, not everyone enjoy to play with energy, just differents ways to play, and that is all on your hands, use it or not, if not, learn how to counter, is not that hard.
You know if we talk on community "sense" everything that have melee (for damage, but not for mobility) and energy in the game, is not "skillfully".
We are in a new era of pvp, new modes, i think the purpose of DE pvp team, its making pvp viable for all players, for new ones, and for old pvp players, a new way to enjoy and adapt. Different ways than a normal shooter when the only thing you have to do is shoot...
You can avoid Excalibur radial Javelin (it was nerfed/changed), You can avoid a volt using his 4th skill (Nerfed and everyone knows that), You can not walk in the face, when ember its doing WoF, when you see valkyr with hysteria, run, dont smile because she is going to murder you...

Everyone have the same chances to get energy and prevent the people to do that, just time to learn how to do, this remember me when people come to forums asking for a nerf in melee damage weapons, on the point that now are  no more than 3 or 4 weapons (melee i say) viable in pvp, jisus i remember people complaining about Gram and his damage, but we all know that the fast speed is something unique in warframe that let you scape for everything, but when the people come here, looks like "dodge is impossible"...

Again about OP, energy was limited and changed, im not okay if another change on energy comes, its really fine how is it, maybe changes on how warframe skills works, but no reduction on the damage, the point is, warframe skills should work as how they are, OP.
I dont want a "Quake game" where everyone is jumping everywhere shooting and shooting and shooting...
The system in warframe, let you make experiments, with this new and big change in pvp, we have a lot of balance in warframe, and a big support, just dont take that support from DE for  your own satisfaction.

 

[Pendragon1951]

I think some of you are misunderstanding me, I'm not trying to bad mouth powers in general or I'm getting killed because players are better than me at using powers, that's not my issue at all, like I said the powers are there so why not use them, that's how our game is built I'm just wondering would PVP really become stale if powers were not used. 

 

@Igo95862 yes we probably just did play, well done by the way, and @Zeally not complaining I was just postulating what PVP would be like without powers. IMHO I think it would be more fun.

[elele]

what PVP would be like without powers

 

It's gonna be a bad Quake clone, with imprecise movement, bad hit registration, odd weapon balance, "meh" maps and grind-to-win/P2W. 

 

No one in his sane mind would want to play this instead of just playing some Quake Live. 

[TaylorsContraction]

imo the problem is energy surge, and the fact that certain melee weapons via air melee make it extremely easy to grab energy orbs while others do not.

 

The first issue of energy surge, imo it removes a large tactical element involved in energy usage.

 

The second issue makes it harder for people who enjoy melee to get energy orbs. Most people using melee don't use bo, whereas those that want to spam skills do. There isn't much that can be done about this issue for now, we can only wait for parkour 2.0.

[Pendragon1951]

Well it was just a thought, maybe I'm just showing my age thinking old school PVP would be more fun lol:)

[Hueminator]

Without power and only pure gunplay, who would play squishy frame?

 

In other games where there are no "power", they restrict class by weapon type like squishy frame have snipers and SMG.  Tank use shotgun/assault rifle. Specialist use LMG and Rocket Launcher or some sort.

 

Unless WF also do similar restriction (like each warframe get a specific loadout), I don't see it happening.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Hueminator

[Educated_Beast]

Nursing homes are gonna be 24/7 lan parties when we get older. Can't wait.

That's funny. Cya there old man.

[Nighttide77]

If DE is going to make energy so available, they should probably make powers that much weaker.

 

I don't think it's a problem for people to be using their powers, because it allows some people to be more like casters than just berserkers and archers.  However, powers are rather easy to execute and overly effective.  As long as Overcharge, Radial Javelin, and a handful of others can one-shot enemies, no one should drop energy orbs on death, effectively allowing anyone to recast Radial Javelin within a couple seconds.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Nighttide77

[Nlim]

I don´t really get the hate for abilities. The 1 of frost&volt&oberon may be hard to dodge but isn´t a death sentence - one can still win or escape when being hit. Otherwise there is mags shield polarize which is kind of the main thing which makes her viable. Evry other ability can be dodged (espescially if you know that it is coming because the opponents "spams" them) or is low impact (like valkyrs rip line) or is purely defensive (and can be therefor avoided). The only exception would be mags bullet attrector (which I find quite cheap and should probably get a rework for pvp) but most complaints seem to be centered around things like Overload which lock the player in place making him an easy target and have a very audible audio cue as a warning.

[Leuca]

Some frames directly rely on their powers to be moderately functional in PvP due to poor base stats. Even Mag with her base shield isn't exempt from this because armor gives you a S#&$ton more effective health than shields do.

[-Vane-]

You know what was good? PvP 1.0.

[Buzkyl]

You know what was good? PvP 1.0.

 

 

I'm certain if DE was satisfied with the last PvP system they wouldn't have scrapped it entirely and rebuild it from the ground up instead of just adding more features onto it.

[-Vane-]

I'm certain if DE was satisfied with the last PvP system they wouldn't have scrapped it entirely and rebuild it from the ground up instead of just adding more features onto it.

PvP 1.0 was stil better.

[Buzkyl]

PvP 1.0 was stil better.

Opinions, opinions.

[R3DBelmont456]

As i say in other topics, the game that people wanted without energy is not warframe, using energy or not, is not "skillfully", gun play and melee gameplay is not "skillfully".

The people have the same chances to get energy, and prevent the player to do that, if u know that people camp the energy, counter, learn how, adap.

Disable energy on pvp, or making a limit on that again, its going to limit the player choice and "fun", not everyone enjoy to play with guns, or melee, not everyone enjoy to play with energy, just differents ways to play, and that is all on your hands, use it or not, if not, learn how to counter, is not that hard.

You know if we talk on community "sense" everything that have melee (for damage, but not for mobility) and energy in the game, is not "skillfully".

We are in a new era of pvp, new modes, i think the purpose of DE pvp team, its making pvp viable for all players, for new ones, and for old pvp players, a new way to enjoy and adapt. Different ways than a normal shooter when the only thing you have to do is shoot...

You can avoid Excalibur radial Javelin (it was nerfed/changed), You can avoid a volt using his 4th skill (Nerfed and everyone knows that), You can not walk in the face, when ember its doing WoF, when you see valkyr with hysteria, run, dont smile because she is going to murder you...

Everyone have the same chances to get energy and prevent the people to do that, just time to learn how to do, this remember me when people come to forums asking for a nerf in melee damage weapons, on the point that now are  no more than 3 or 4 weapons (melee i say) viable in pvp, jisus i remember people complaining about Gram and his damage, but we all know that the fast speed is something unique in warframe that let you scape for everything, but when the people come here, looks like "dodge is impossible"...

Again about OP, energy was limited and changed, im not okay if another change on energy comes, its really fine how is it, maybe changes on how warframe skills works, but no reduction on the damage, the point is, warframe skills should work as how they are, OP.

I dont want a "Quake game" where everyone is jumping everywhere shooting and shooting and shooting...

The system in warframe, let you make experiments, with this new and big change in pvp, we have a lot of balance in warframe, and a big support, just dont take that support from DE for  your own satisfaction.

 

 

SO what... Everyone in Halo had access to power ups and power weapons when the match started, but 90% of the time, the people that got to them first dictated how the match went because they knew spawn timers and such... This meant that matches were always one sided when there was just one power weapon or power up in the game. Now I'm not saying Halo was unbalanced, because it was among the most balanced games you could ever play, but Warframe abilities being accessible at all times as long as you have a pool of energy, and having zero cooldown means you can just for the most part spam certain abilities to win (now I'm not saying there aren't strategies to deal with spam, but it severely limits your options and it becomes more annoying than fun dealing with so much spam)... I for one am 100% in on some stronger abilities having higher cooldowns to prevent all the spam so that you use an ult as a strategic tide turner rather than an instant win button... like adding a 60 second cooldown to one shot ults, and 30 second cooldowns to highly damaging 1 abilities, this would at least make people think twice before using them...

Edited June 3, 2015 by R3DBelmont456