Pc 16.9.0: Excalibur Feedback Megathread

[tris1]

I'm sure this has already been pointed out already, but Life Strike works with EB without channeling, but (according to another user) other channeling mods don't.

If this inconsistency wasn't intentional (i.e. if the devs didn't intend to perma-enable Life Strike for easy healthsteal while in EB mode), then I think it would be better to make channeling mods all-or-nothing. Either they all work while not channeling, or none of them do.

agreed

 

have you tried using only using that ability during high levels its basically only the life strike that keeps you alive due to the damage not being brilliant and the air slashes are not being effected by damage mods (I think). Its mostly the spamming of the radial blind slide that gives it damage but that blind is really small.

 

auto parry does not block any form of knockdown from procs such as bombards while not being reflected and still take huge damage and does not block knockdowns from heavy gunners and bombards from ground slams proably intentional but highly stupid for going into melee with them

[Acidulant]

I assume you mean without channeling?

If so, then it's time for me to test out some new builds. xD

But in all honesty, is quickening even worth a mod slot?

Also, there is reason why channeling "damage" mods don't work while LS and Quickening do.

Because they don't increase the base damage.

They add channeling dmg multiplier.

I guess that itself is an inconsistency, but there you have it.

Edited June 18, 2015 by Acidulant

[shut]

But in all honesty, is quickening even worth a mod slot?

Also, there is reason why channeling "damage" mods don't work while LS and Quickening do.

Because they don't increase the base damage.

They add channeling dmg multiplier.

I guess that itself is an inconsistency, but there you have it.

 

Wait, have you tested this out? Killing Blow doesn't work with regular EB strikes?

[bigfoot1812]

Question: Why does power strength mods not effect the wave, is it a bug or was that intentional?

[Acidulant]

Wait, have you tested this out? Killing Blow doesn't work with regular EB strikes?

No, I'm sure they don't.

With or without killing blow, I was hitting 4k ish per strike in Seimini without channeling.

With channeling + killing blow I roughly hit for 9k

[DeMonkey]

I assume you mean without channeling?

If so, then it's time for me to test out some new builds. xD

Correct, the weapon currently auto channels, but without the added cost. I can confirm this as i have tested it extensively and both Quickening and Life strike work on every strike. Cannot comment on KB as im not one to sit and stare at damage numbers.

[shut]

No, I'm sure they don't.

With or without killing blow, I was hitting 4k ish per strike in Seimini without channeling.

With channeling + killing blow I roughly hit for 9k

 

Correct, the weapon currently auto channels, but without the added cost. I can confirm this as i have tested it extensively and both Quickening and Life strike work on every strike. Cannot comment on KB as im not one to sit and stare at damage numbers.

 

The good news is, we all moved a step forward in understanding EB's mechanics today.

The bad news is, things are so inconsistent that somebody's probably going to have to test the channeling mods one by one to find out whether it works or not. Any volunteers?

[-BM-DarkenAngel]

so many complains about excal n he jsut got out jsut becus ppl dont like it dousnt mean u have to complain about it so it gets nerfed i mean cmon cant u ppl let others enjoy stuff to? i think they did a amazing job on excal and i love him even more then i did before goodjob DE!

[shut]

so many complains about excal n he jsut got out jsut becus ppl dont like it dousnt mean u have to complain about it so it gets nerfed i mean cmon cant u ppl let others enjoy stuff to? i think they did a amazing job on excal and i love him even more then i did before goodjob DE!

 

I don't see any complaints about Excal being too powerful... everything here is talking about things that can be fixed and/or improved further.

[-BM-DarkenAngel]

I don't see any complaints about Excal being too powerful... everything here is talking about things that can be fixed and/or improved further.

 

 

well some are complaining but in game i actually ment there ive met alot of players just hating the new excalibur cuz they are so dedicated to a other frame they cant stand the fact other frames are good to

[TheTechieAngler]

I've always thought that Radial Blind and Radial Javelin should be rolled into one skill. At the moment Radial blind is relatively useless in levels where Javelins kill, it's only when Javelins stop killing that Blind becomes properly useful. Either way one of your skills is useless.

 

Both have the same range, both have the same shoddy LoS targeting system. Why not just roll them into one and make a new ability for him.

bruh radila blind = stealth kills which = high &#! crits 

[TheTechieAngler]

if excali gets another change or fix.. DE might break him or ruin him again.. so rather not take the risk 

[-KmB-]

My feedback:

 

Overall - This rework of Excalibur feels nice, with a great concept at hand. But as always, like on every other Warframe, there is a LOT of polishing still needed.

 

Slash Dash - Damage is quite nice, but it has 2 annoying issues:

1) Angle of cast: How far up or down you can use it is limitted. Intended?

2) Supermagnetic targetting - Sometimes you actually get stuck in the environment because Excal wants to Slash Dash to a target while the target is behind a small object. Gamebreakingly annoying.

3) Highly limitted range - I seem to have troubles hitting more than 2 or 3 enemies at once with this ability (compared to easily hitting up to a dozen enemies with the old Slash Dash). It feels really restricted somehow.

In general, I think this ability still needs a lot of work

 

Radial Blind - How it is cast is perfect. But it has one HUGE flaw:

1) Forced finishers - Could we PLEASE get the option to rebind finishers to wether we want them triggered by melee (E) or by the contextual action (X)?? This non-option is currently slowing him down a TREMENDOUS amount.

 

Radial Javelin - I don't even... there was NO REWORK of this boring ability (other than just becoming cheaper)?? You know, there are so many more ideas for it. Take this quick example: Upon cast, Excal summons a bunch of energy blades spinning around him, which deals continuous slash damage to nearby enemies and helps blocking attacks (instead of his ulti doing so). Upon expiration, or if you cancel it by casting it again midduration, the blades are then launched outwards like Radial Javelin 1.0 (bringing back the Bullet Attractor synergy!), damage affected by the melee combo counter (but base damage lowered a bit), possibly also ragdolling the hit enemies.

There, tadaaaaa! No longer a boring and broken piece of crap, but instead something that synergizes with his kit.

 

Exalted Blade - While certainly not horrible (the looks of it, in particular the summon/unsummon is frikkin awesome looking!), it has a bunch of errors/flaws:

1) Aiming - The launching of the energy waves does not really follow where you aim

2) Energy Wave Scaling - Seems like they still don't scale from mods, nor do they benefit from stealth multipliers (such as when hitting blinded enemies).

3) Elemental scaling - It seems like elemental mods don't benefit EB (same issue on Hysteria). Intended, or oversight?

4) Bias - Why can't Valkyr's Hysteria scale the same way (only from weapon MODS and not from the weapon CHOICE)? His choices are much greater (I'd still prefer EB and Hysteria to not scale off of melee mods at ALL, instead having a much better base damage and only scaling with Power modifications instead, but alas).

Well, i was going to release my feedback but after reading every single post in the 10th page i found that Azamagon just wrote the whole things i was going to. I agree with you.

 

But i do think that the waves from his EB are just a plus, not designed as main damage output, that's why they don't scale from mods.

 

Edit: Nvm as per "Exalted Blade waves scales off of all melee mods".

Edited June 19, 2015 by MansonKmb

[DeMonkey]

bruh radila blind = stealth kills which = high ! crits 

Bruh radial blind = finisher = long and boring animation that i don't have time for.

 

You're missing my point anyway, my point is, why should I blind a group of enemies when javelins can kill them. Once you reach high level javelins become pointless to use because they're just damage, at which point RB is king. However which way you look at it, one of his abilities here is pointless which is why i suggested a merge.

[geninrising]

To everyone saying the damage on his ult is too low...SMH. The ult's PRIMARY damage is the blade itself which I have seen hit REGULARLY for 53k or more damage(have seen over 100k at one point, one guy has a pic posted above somewhere of hitting over 3 billion probably a glitch but still). The energy waves are just incidental damage nothing more. To all those that are having constant finishers, I think maybe you have melee autotargetting or aim assist whatever it's called because I don't hit finishers constantly on a bit more testing.

 

If nothing else the spin attack should be fixed to maintain momentum(and hit in a full 360, for some reason I find it hella hard to hit anything) and the range should be like 15m for the blind so it's not a suicide skill under some circumstances.

 

Beyond that the mechanics for slash dash definitely need a look for QoL and general functionality. Slash dash is unfortunately ignoring enemies sometimes that are clearly in front of you do to their movements. Additionally if a teammate kills the enemy you have targetted it just fails to work at all. Targeting re-selection needs to occur. 

 

Also does anyone have a clue on the max targets? The most I have had period is 3 targets in a solo match and they were just standing completely still in order to hit even that many(note there were like 15 all in a tightly packed corner and they simply got ignored except for those 3).

[Kalvorax]

To everyone saying the damage on his ult is too low...SMH. The ult's PRIMARY damage is the blade itself which I have seen hit REGULARLY for 53k or more damage(have seen over 100k at one point, one guy has a pic posted above somewhere of hitting over 3 billion probably a glitch but still).

And yet what they showcased wasnt the close combat but the energy waves :| IF I wanted clsoe combat like that then i wouldnt even USE the ult or just use Valkry :| the whole ult should use the melee mods, not just the melee blade.

 

I do agree with you on the spin attack though, it leaves much to be desired.

 

SD does need to be looked at (and maybe only adjusted to make use of range + strength so its not garbage if you build for duration (as if you build for max duration then the melee is less than 1 m :|)

[Blackout751]

I don't know if it's a bug or something, but I was under the impression Slash Dash was supposed to attack all enemies in range in one press rather than us having to spam it at 25 energy for one enemy being hit.

[SlyBoots]

The energy waves are just incidental damage nothing more.

 

right...

 

 

"...exalted blade is a devastating weapon, every swing of your blade delivers a[n incidental] wave of energy..."

 

oh wait, no, she said "deadly" and they showed off nothing but the waves, hmmmmm...

 

not to mention that we'd have an ult that is a glorified melee weapon and that melee doesn't work with just roflcopterwtfbbqdamage, never has been, never will. you need cc (which exalted blade has, mind you), damage reduction and/or life leech.

Edited June 18, 2015 by SlyBoots

[Darkmoone1]

Can we get clarification as to why the waves from his 4th ability aren't doing as much damage as his blade is? Other than that I really like how Excalibur turned out.

 

Also the new Slash Dash seems inconsistent with what it targets. Sometimes it tracks another enemy sometimes it doesn't.

Edited June 18, 2015 by Darkmoone1

[BETAOPTICS]

A somewhat rambly and lengthy post but takes a look at an issue that is not necessarily exclusive to Excalibur but specific kinds of ultimates.Of course, your experience may vary and I might be a bad at it but based on the experience that I have had by playing a lot with Valkyr and Excalibur rework now that I have played with it.

I like the rework for the most part but I think and feel from experience that the ultimate could use a slight damage boost. Not a major one but a slight one. Its damage should be mediocre as it is sustainable but I think it is a bit too limited, close to that of Banshee or Vauban but those who have a form of massive ground control, one of them is AoE lock-down (Earthquake - Banshee) while the other is a localized lock-down ability (Vortex - Vauban).

Excalibur on the other hand is more mobile and can get energy well, he also does damage and gets sustainability due to damage deflection with the sword so that gives it points as you can control it better both as in movement but also as in energy management but as it is very directional and meant to be somewhat midway ability then I think it should be a bit more like that and it does not seem to fit into the role quite yet.

Look at Saryn. Look at Chroma. Both of them have something that benefits melee combat and they can do pretty well on their own but on top of this they can also do a lot more than that. Saryn can melt enemies with her ultimate. Now granted that the caveat here is that all of these Warframes are different and out of the three example Warframes, it is not question that Excalibur would not be the best of them at melee due to his abilities. But considering the potential of each Warframe, some fall short and in the case of Excalibur as opposed to Chroma or Saryn, I think that Excalibur could use a slight boost on his ability to perform with the melee as the time/return-of-benefit is not quite met due to how long it takes in higher levels for Excalibur to melee enemies. Even the most basic ones. Blind works wonders on heavies though.

But I digress. I do not think this is exclusively Excalibur issue though as I consider it to be more of a melee ultimate issue. Look at Valkyr, the similarities in good and bad. Her ultimate is a timer based instead of energy per second based with both good and bad in both approaches. Valkyr ultimate costs less energy in the long run as she can afford to do more due to the timer based ability but at the same time she can not re-activate it to stop the ultimate. Excalibur has this mobility at the sacrifice with the mechanic of timer ability and instead uses energy per second. Valkyr has a bit shorter range for her claws but she gets a lifesteal on her melee. Excalibur has a longer range and it can fire projectiles thus giving it a more damage oriented approach but it lacks utility without specific attacks like a slide attack.

Let us then compare how they do in the late game Void. Both struggle. They struggle because their melee abilities can not handle the armor that the enemies have. It takes them longer time using their ultimate abilities and try to swing away the armor than it takes time with most other Warframes with abilities, even those that are not ultimates at times. Not alone guns or even some melee weapons that can expose those heavies quicker. This is an issue because if the ultimates can not compete with even the normal weapons then they become liabilities and only serve as very temporal uses like having the need for low cost blinds (Excalibur) or life-steal (Valkyr).

But these aspects alone do not save them and I think both could use a buff to their ultimate mechanic in form of small damage buffs. Nothing too overpowered of course but so that at the end game, their ability to compete is on par or relatively there. This is not the case as of now.

So what could be the solution? A good question that I might not have an answer for but I wonder if they could use some sort of % number in addition to flat damage number to their melee ultimates. This would allow the early game content to still be challenging and ultimates not be too powerful there but also allow the end game content for these ultimates to be more balanced. Granted that it could potentially become more powerful than any other ability if no counter measures are not implemented and this would be unfair to other Warframes. My solution to this is to add a % damage resistance to enemies so that the higher the enemy is, the % damage abilities have diminishing returns but still do a certain % of damage regardless.

Edited June 18, 2015 by BETAOPTICS

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Any videos of the reworked Excal versus level 40 or higher enemies?  I am on PS4, so I can't try it out myself just yet.

[DeMonkey]

Can we get clarification as to why the waves from his 4th ability aren't doing as much damage as his blade is?

Because what then would be the point in using it as a sword? It's just a gun that shoots cool waves at that point.

 

It's a sword first and foremost, attacks with the blade should do more damage than the waves. 

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Because what then would be the point in using it as a sword? It's just a gun that shoots cool waves at that point.

 

It's a sword first and foremost, attacks with the blade should do more damage than the waves. 

You know a sword gun would be the coolest, most metal, most ninja thing ever.

[Chroia]

1) Is Excalibur intended tonot be able to stand still while slashing with Exalted Blade?

2) Holding any direction while slashing makes him run forward. :s

[shut]

2) Holding any direction while slashing makes him run forward. :s

 

That goes for all melee weapons. If you're used to keyboard input dictating melee attack direction (as opposed to camera direction), check your settings; a lot of stuff was reverted to default with 16.9.0.