Parkour 2.0 Devstream 55 Feedback Megathread

[Milkyway_Murder]

I'm kind of upset of the parkour DE showed off on devsteam #55. It is literally nothing DE have showed us yet and half of the time you look like a bunny occasionally growing wings to somehow hop in mid-air from no apparent source. Come on DE show us something that we are actually going to use. In any case if this is going to be parkour 2.0 then I might as well just run on the ground. DE if you want any suggestions on how to create a epic looking, fun, rewarding, and easy to use parkour system look at the tilesets that you currently have and the ones that your gonna support in the future and base your development off of that. Also keep in mind the mobility that coptering offered and correlate that to parkour 2.0 if not maybe a bit less than coptering. If we don't have something thats gonna make parkour rewarding to use then we might as well as not use it at all. Please be open to suggestions from the community and positive criticism to help in development of parkour 2.0 and be open with us so we can have discussions for whats better for the game. To end it one thing that concerns me is that we may be seeing U17 soon and I really don't want DE to be pushing parkour 2.0 out without a set in stone plan and same goes for the new star chart because as far as what I see on the past devstreams DE hasn't seemed to confident in either of these WIP projects.

[Racter]

I like how half the same people saying movement speed shouldn't decide part of your load out (melee weapon) are also telling us to use a frame with mobility abilities. Pot meet kettle? How can you even type that and not notice the hypocrisy? I'd much rather take a mediocre melee weapon because I can fly with it than take a frame that either doesn't work for the mission/faction or I outright dislike.

 

They should have just equalized melee weapons ability to copter to like Zoren status (nerf the things above it, buff the things below it) and not bothered with another wall running system that looks ridiculous and seems incredibly impractical. I can't support this at all, the animations look goofy, double jumps are ludicrous and perhaps worst of all this looks slower than walking with a Hobbled key on a Frost. Just my opinion.

 

 

(5 millionth time saying this)

 

Parkour 2.0 is not slower than Parkour 1.0 it is actually faster with better controls. The only thing that makes it look slow is no wall slingshots and the animation makes it look slow.

 

The wall slingshot has to leave because it makes it impossible to aim properly, and the animations will be changed before release.

 

 

OK, first no we don't have to be fast, the DE will decide whether this is going to be as fast pace as you want or as fast pace as they want. They will do what they think is correct. They will not increase sprint speed if they feel it will be unhealthy for the game. Honestly I am on split ropes on whether or not making parkour fast will be healthy for the game.

 

On one hand faster parkour makes the game fast pace, but makes missions blur together. Speed is one of the reasons stealth is complete rubbish at the moment. Yes the stealth system is bad but even if it was good being able to go fast would defeat going slower and stealthing our way through missions. I honestly don't mind going slower because I don't copter anyway. Going slower will make missions longer but that isn't the biggest deal. They are already about 5 minutes long, and the only long ones are endless missions so it doesn't matter. So I don't think it will matter much because the most they can do is increase mission time by 2 minutes.

 

The problem is you are not considering coptering in the speed comparison, and on top of that, not all endless missions are stationary. Adding 2 minutes may not seem like a lot, but consider bigger maps like the outdoor cold Corpus one. Even with a Tipedo, the fastest weapon in the game, it takes more than a minute to get from one extractor to another sometimes. That is counting using d melee to skip stairs, coptering across all the gaps, using all short cuts etc. With no coptering and a nerfed d melee, you could be look at over 5m to move from one spot to another. Which you then repeat, over and over and over and over again. There are literally zero ways to utilize Parkour 2.0 to reduce this time on this tileset, and that's just one tileset. Think about other situations, like survival. Even the non endless missions are often on ridiculously huge maps. I certainly don't enjoy running through 43 rooms I've seen a thousand times with 5-10 enemies in each (especially in non endless missions where they're not even a threat, an annoyance at best) to get to a terminal, then again to the next, and again to the next, before finally trekking to extraction. Which is, of course, somewhere on the other side of the planet half the time.

 

I honestly feel like if they're going to remove the primary mode of transport for 90%+ of the player base, the only possible way to remotely balance that out is to remove 1/2-2/3 of the long, basically empty rooms we're coptering across in the first place. I really don't want to resort to buttslide+flip+(nerfed) d melee to try and move at something approaching a reasonable pace, but that's what I foresee happening with this change. You know they're not going to go back and redo every tile they've ever made to make them more conducive to this new system, and even if they did, it's still barely maybe 10% as expedient as what we have now.

 

My 2 cents.

Edited June 30, 2015 by Racter0325

[Feallike]

 

The problem is you are not considering coptering in the speed comparison, and on top of that, not all endless missions are stationary. Adding 2 minutes may not seem like a lot, but consider bigger maps like the outdoor cold Corpus one. Even with a Tipedo, the fastest weapon in the game, it takes more than a minute to get from one extractor to another sometimes. That is counting using d melee to skip stairs, coptering across all the gaps, using all short cuts etc. With no coptering and a nerfed d melee, you could be look at over 5m to move from one spot to another. Which you then repeat, over and over and over and over again. There are literally zero ways to utilize Parkour 2.0 to reduce this time on this tileset, and that's just one tileset. Think about other situations, like survival. Even the non endless missions are often on ridiculously huge maps. I certainly don't enjoy running through 43 rooms I've seen a thousand times with 5-10 enemies in each (especially in non endless missions where they're not even a threat, an annoyance at best) to get to a terminal, then again to the next, and again to the next, before finally trekking to extraction. Which is, of course, somewhere on the other side of the planet half the time.

 

I honestly feel like if they're going to remove the primary mode of transport for 90%+ of the player base, the only possible way to remotely balance that out is to remove 1/2-2/3 of the long, basically empty rooms we're coptering across in the first place. I really don't want to resort to buttslide+flip+(nerfed) d melee to try and move at something approaching a reasonable pace, but that's what I foresee happening with this change. You know they're not going to go back and redo every tile they've ever made to make them more conducive to this new system, and even if they did, it's still barely maybe 10% as expedient as what we have now.

 

My 2 cents.

This is true, the empty rooms are a huge problem. Though I think it would be much better if they took away movement speed and then filled those empty rooms. The problem is with insane movement speed their is no point in putting cool things like turrets in the game if where going to fly past them. That's what I mean as is it healthy for the game for us to have major movement speed?

 

The DE needs to decide whether their going to fill those rooms with enemies to make them fun, or not fill those rooms and make us faster so we don't have to deal with the tediousness. I don't think their is a point in making new enemies, new tilesets, and new stealth mechanics if people are going through the regular map in -5 minutes.

 

What is the point of new content if no one is going to use or play the new content?

Edited June 30, 2015 by Feallike

[Feallike]

But I still don't see how stealth can work in most missions that are flooded by enemies with the current combat systems that are blatantly killing the enemies with guns and warframe abilities. Stealth is really not a thing tbh, not that DE can't do, that isn't the matter.

 

The "problem" to implement a better stealth is because of how the game is designed from the start.

 

Well if they keep the same movement speed then their is no way to implement stealth. People will rather finish the mission quickly than get through it unhit and get some reward.

 

The De will be forced to implement some stupid reward or restriction to force us to play stealth. People complain about the DE taking player choice away but sometimes that is good, they want us to use content but coptering, and buttjumping is destroying some of their content.

Edited June 30, 2015 by Feallike

[Jinryusai]

Well if they keep the same movement speed then their is no way to implement stealth. People will rather finish the mission quickly than get through it unhit and get some reward.

 

The De will be forced to implement some stupid reward or restriction to force us to play stealth. People complain about the DE taking player choice away but sometimes that is good, they want us to use content but coptering, and buttjumping is destroying some of their content.

Stop holding on to stealth. it's broken. No one does it. Those that do solo and speed isn't going to stop them.

 

You are dreaming if you think the three other with you are suddenly going to turn into ninjas and sneak beyond or assassinate enemies...

 

They are run n gun drones...

Edited June 30, 2015 by Jinryusai

[Feallike]

Stop holding on to stealth. it's broken. No one does it. Those that do solo and speed isn't going to stop them.

 

You are dreaming if you think the three other with you are suddenly going to turn into ninjas and sneak beyond or assassinate enemies...

 

They are run n gun drones...

 

I think you haven't realized I am talking about when they implement stealth 2.0 not right now. Also content such turrets and traps are destroyed with speed as well.

I am trying to get at that saying the game has to be speedy to be good isn't entirely true. It depends on what content the DE wants in the game. If the De wants this game to be as fast as you guys want it, then they making content such as Turrets, traps, stealth, and movement abilities become useless.

[sir_deadlock]

Now that we're going to have the wall grab function, I hope it introduces moving wall segments that we have to hold on to to get into a good position before we jump off.

 

 I'm thinking a new boss battle would be good. Possibly paying homage to Shadow of the Colossus.

[Ryusuta]

Honestly, my reaction to Parkour 2.0 after this devstream is the EXACT same reaction as it was before: an overwhelming "meh."

 

I can think of half a dozen things that should have been prioritized over changing movement off the top of my head. In fact, let's do that.

 

-Kubrows

-Weapon imbalance

-Grindwalls

-Terrible boss fights

-Damage scaling

-Pressing 4 to win

 

There. Seriously, came up with that list in like 2 seconds. I'm seriously wondering why moving around is what we're working on right now.

[Thalahssalyst]

I dont remember on what Devstream was, i cant.
But i remember Steve words:

Pve and pvp, are going to be less speed based missions.

 

Just saying.

[Feallike]

I dont remember on what Devstream was, i cant.

But i remember Steve words:

Pve and pvp, are going to be less speed based missions.

 

Just saying.

 

This.

 

If Steve doesn't think the game is fast paced then it won't be. Their is nothing we can do about it. As it seems I don't think the DE wants this game to be fast paced.

[Rakshal]

I dont remember on what Devstream was, i cant.

But i remember Steve words:

Pve and pvp, are going to be less speed based missions.

 

Just saying.

R.I.P fun.

[.Talia.]

Actually this is what he said in a reply to you Grimlok- 



It was on twitter, not on a devstream. I watch all devstreams, and do translations to them in portuguese to post on my Facebook page, and he did not say PvE and PvP are going to be less speed based missions.

What he said is that coptering will not dominate as mobility. He never said the game will be less fast paced. 

 

Parkour 2.0 to be an alternative to coptering/directional as mobility, that's all. Doesn't mean the game have to be slow paced.

Edited June 30, 2015 by RexSol

[Thalahssalyst]

Actually this is what he said in a reply to you Grimlok- 

It was on twitter, not on a devstream. I watch all devstreams, and do translations to them in portuguese to post on my Facebook page, and he did not say PvE and PvP are going to be less speed based missions.

What he said is that coptering will not dominate as mobility. He never said the game will be less fast paced. 

 

Parkour 2.0 to be an alternative to coptering/directional as mobility, that's all. Doesn't mean the game have to be slow paced.

Ow that feel when i see it.

I remember he say on a devstream, i watch too and understand, you are not the only one ;D

[.Talia.]

Another thing, i remember you saying in one of your many ''anti-copter'' topics, that we should not be restricted to the melee weapon if we want to go fast. Yet in this topic you claim it is fine to restrict the speed to the Warframes. Can't you see the controversy? You just want the game to adapt to your game style.

[Thalahssalyst]

Another thing, i remember you saying in one of your many ''anti-copter'' topics, that we should not be restricted to the melee weapon if we want to go fast. Yet in this topic you claim it is fine to restrict the speed to the Warframes. Can't you see the controversy? You just want the game to adapt to your game style.

Can you leave personal atacks away from this topic?

Thank you.

 

And i dont want speed limit, just speed based on warframes, i feel it is more balanced than force the player to choose a Tipedo or another high atack speed weapon if i want to move fast.

Edited June 30, 2015 by Grimlock-

[(PSN)Gaelic-_-Flame]

This.

 

If Steve doesn't think the game is fast paced then it won't be. Their is nothing we can do about it. As it seems I don't think the DE wants this game to be fast paced.

I think a lot of people confuse fast-paced gameplay, with actually going fast. they are two separate things, you can go relatively slow, but the game would still be fast paced, first example that comes to mind is Ninja Gaiden, it's a fast paced action game, but you can't actually move very fast in that game. On the other hand you can move really fast, but the pace of the game wouldn't actually be that fast, I don't have a good example on my mind, but no one considers racing games fast paced right? Even though you are going 200-300 km/h most of the times. (I know that's a poor comparison, but you get my idea) Actually speaking about racing games, Mario Kart looks a lot more fast paced than any of the F1 games, even though Mario Kart is like a turtle race compared to F1.

[.Talia.]

Can you leave personal atacks away from this topic?

Thank you.

 

Did i say something that offend you? 

All i did is put into question your logical fallacy.

[Perserve]

what will this do to Archwing?

[(PSN)Gaelic-_-Flame]

Another thing, i remember you saying in one of your many ''anti-copter'' topics, that we should not be restricted to the melee weapon if we want to go fast. Yet in this topic you claim it is fine to restrict the speed to the Warframes. Can't you see the controversy? You just want the game to adapt to your game style.

IMO that's two different things. Warframe affect your playstyle a lot. You choose a warframe to fit your playstyle. Want to go unscathed into a crowd of enemies? You choose Rhino or Valkyr. Wanna heal your allies? You choose Oberon or Trinity. Wanna control the crowds? You choose Nyx or Vauban. Want to run fast or fly? Choose Volt or Zephyr.

 

Of course it's not that simple but it's part of their playstyle. With melee weapons it shouldn't be like, want to move fast? Choose Tipedo! Because that's not what melee weapons are for in the first place. You should choose weapons based on their stats, appearance and type (longsword, dagger, polearm, etc) Choosing a weapon because you can move fast with it and can't keep up without it is just silly.

[rockscl]

Did i say something that offend you? 

All i did is put into question your logical fallacy.

 

changing the condition for speed from melee weapon to the choosen warframe is not a fallacy, that is actually a consistency since the frames have intrinsec roles and different base values(valkyr`s sprint 1.1) that are meant to outline those roles

Edited June 30, 2015 by rockscl

[Thalahssalyst]

Did i say something that offend you? 

All i did is put into question your logical fallacy.

You make it seem that everything that other people say, is out of context, making it appear that the only one who knows the things he says, is you.

Being a total lack of respect for the different perspective with others, when others have a different thought, and say, you start to question their common sense in what they say, as if that person were something crazy?

 

Just now you're questioning, and making contradict myself in everything I write, I raise, or think, or is not it?

 

And if I do,  I edit what I write.

 

If you understood my point of view, and at least you saw my comments, you would not write fallacies

 

What you are doing now, this offend me, as you always did, and how many you have done, so please, respect, if you have problems, you say in twitter where I am, but in the forum, no.

Now I ask, that if you will not say anything constructive, leave aside your personal problems.

Respect this space, and if you need to say something out of context  about me, off topic is the area you are looking for.

Thank you question my fallacy is the least important in the OP.

[.Talia.]

 

You make it seem that everything that other people say, is out of context, making it appear that the only one who knows the things he says, is you.

Being a total lack of respect for the different perspective with others, when others have a different thought, and say, you start to question their common sense in what they say, as if that person were something crazy?

 

Just now you're questioning, and making contradict myself in everything I write, I raise, or think, or is not it?

 

And if I do,  I edit what I write.

 

If you understood my point of view, and at least you saw my comments, you would not write fallacies

 

What you are doing now, this offend me, as you always did, and how many you have done, so please, respect, if you have problems, you say in twitter where I am, but in the forum, no.

Now I ask, that if you will not say anything constructive, leave aside your personal problems.

Respect this space, and if you need to say something out of context  about me, off topic is the area you are looking for.

Thank you question my fallacy is the least important in the OP.

 

Say your opinion and is totally fine. But you ask people's opinions on a matter, and yet force your view of what the game should be, and assume your opinion is the ultimate truth and no one is entitled to disagree with you, if someone puts your opinion into question that is a offense? No. If someone ''dare'' to point out the flaws in your logic, or put your claims into questions, it is a personal attack? No. This is a discussion forums and people discuss. Just read your posts in this topic, and it is clear that you are biased towards your hate for coptering. I did't want to participate in the discussion, but i just can't stand back and see the logical fallacies you have been posting here, biased opinions and false affirmations in order to back up your claims. 

[mkmahdi24]

TBH I like how parkour 2 looks, it seems to be more fluent

[Thalahssalyst]

Say your opinion and is totally fine. But you ask people's opinions on a matter, and yet force your view of what the game should be, and assume your opinion is the ultimate truth and no one is entitled to disagree with you, if someone puts your opinion into question that is a offense? No. If someone ''dare'' to point out the flaws in your logic, or put your claims into questions, it is a personal attack? No. This is a discussion forums and people discuss. Just read your posts in this topic, and it is clear that you are biased towards your hate for coptering. I did't want to participate in the discussion, but i just can't stand back and see the logical fallacies you have been posting here, biased opinions and false affirmations in order to back up your claims. 

 

Sorry , but never force anyone to see things my way, just ask, I consult , I look , I think .

 

 

as I said before, I think 2 times before  write , you should do the same.

 

 

I do not do , that others understand and see what I , read the old paragraph every time you see some of my comments .

 

 

Stop calling fallacy to what I write , do not be disrespectful.

 

Clarify , I not hate , it's different point of view.

Thank you, as an adult, his point of view , but not misunderstand the views of others, completely mowed to arguments that only understands what you want .

 

The next time we talk , I hope that you learn what is respect.

Edited June 30, 2015 by Grimlock-

[(PSN)NewYorkGameflow]

The only things I can think of that id like to see adjusted are:

Wall running looked awesome where one hand slides on the wall. By what I saw, the new wall run looks more like a wall hop. Looks like a frog is hopping across the wall.

It looks a bit slow. For my taste, too slow for the way I enjoy this games pace.

The double jump. I feel it needs a bit more "ups" than that.

Other than that it looks awesome.