Parkour 2.0 Devstream 55 Feedback Megathread

[Potato_Ninja]

I like parkour 2.0. However, I don't understand parkouring off enemies. Think about it, if you jump on someone, shouldn't you at least be able to use your ninja skills a stab/bludgeon them to death while on top of them? Also, parkouring via enemies seems more awkward than the rest of parkour 2.0.

[Satosa]

I'm hoping for some tumble routine inspiration to get some big jumps, rather than double jumping off of nothing.. or at least the ability to short hop, or charge stam into a bigger jump

[Jinryusai]

How about this...

 

Jump, slide, press jump right away to propel yourself.

 

There you go.

 

I call it, Mario hopping...

 

Perfect copter replacement, no *@##$ing about it looking dumb. Everyone wins :)

[(PSN)KaxMcc]

So, in general, my impression was "great start but still needs work"

The Good:

 

-For the most part, wall jumping looks easier to use and more versatile than wall running which always felt very rigid.

 

-Movement mechanics seem more balanced around working together rather than working alone.

 

-Seems a lot more active and enviroment dependant than the previous copter-dominant movement style.

 

-Vertical wall hopping and wall launches look really good. Coupled with the front flip animation from the double jump it ends up looking a bit more acrobatic and less goofy. With one exception...

 

The Bad:

 

-Horizontal Wall hopping looks goofy and unnatural. At least moreso than wall running did. It doesn't look too bad if it's only once or twice but after that it looks a little ridiculous.

 

-Double jump doesn't offer as much due to the lack of momentum. The extra hang time is great but without being able to get a decent amount of momentum prior to the initial jump the second jump doesn't do much to extend the first one.

 

-Double jump seems to have barely any verticality. Which isn't neccessarily bad in and of itself but it does reduce the possible applications of the mechanic

 

-Along the same lines, Double jump doesn't seem to add a significant amoung of momentum in any direction. Which means that you can't use it to change directions mid air. further reducing its possible applications.

 

side note:Of course, this can also be acheived through aerial dashes, which I vaugely remember being mentioned. But I don't remember seeing any in the video, not clearly anyway.

 

-Complete lack of momentum increase. I'm all for the removal of copter-spam but there has to be some way for players to increase their speed. Preferably skill based.

 

-Enemy interaction looked a bit clunky or imprecise.

 

Suggestions:

 

Horizontal wall hopping: Since wall hopping and wall running serve pretty much the same purpose (or at least occupy the same space) give players the ability to choose between the two but give each one their own specific purpose.

 

Wall hopping can be for making smaller adjustments in position before wall launching or on smaller surfaces while wall running can be for scaling longer surfaces more quickly.

 

Double Jump/Aerial Dash: Expand on aerial mechanics a bit. Double jumping usually offers a bit more than extra hang time(Extra verticality & bidirectional aerial movement are the big ones) but I don't want to judge too much since I don't really know what the specific purpose behind this mechanic is. For all I know those could be enabled through mods or something.

 

Momentum/Speed: I have a few ideas I want to float. But in essence if it allows players to increase their speed in a skill based way I'll be happy.

 

-Allow for on-foot acceleration when sprinting.

 

-Similar to your first idea, allow the player to slide along a wall when making contact and launch off, with good timing, to achieve a momentum boost. This could end up working very similarly to how the wall catapult works now, where a quick double tap just as you hit the wall will reward extra momentum.

 

-Allow players to kick off of enemies to gain an instant speed boost.

 

- Allow speed to be preserved as long as the player can avoid colliding with obstacles incorrectly.

 

-Tighten the turn radius a bit as speed increases and allow players to slow down through sliding. To add a sort of speed management aspect to it.

 

For example, if a player is going towards a 90 degree left  turn and they are going too fast to take the turn they can either slide to slow down and take the turn more slowly or bounce off of the wall directly in front of them to change directions without losing speed.

All in all, I am very pleased with the direction this has been going and the pros already outweigh the cons IMO. Looking forward to it.

 

Edited June 27, 2015 by (PS4)KaxMcc

[Jinryusai]

Horizontal wall hopping: Since wall hopping and wall running serve pretty much the same purpose (or at least occupy the same space) give players the ability to choose between the two but give each one their own specific purpose.

 

Wall hopping can be for making smaller adjustments in position before wall launching or on smaller surfaces while wall running can be for scaling longer surfaces more quickly.

Or combine them both by having the player wall run for a sec before hopping them going straight up, to make up for it, you gain extra momentum when you hop...

 

You also run up faster...

[Niennah]

I really hate the fact that parkour 2.0 completely obliterates any semblance of puzzle elements from travel and exploration.

[woah_dude]

 My impression of Parkour 2.0 is essentially - "a gimmick" and thats about it, nothing revolutionary or "zomg, do want that", i'll elaborate:

 

 

1) Speed. Yes, This looks incredibly slow (even if Rebecca is not that good), like really, really slow, especially with current warframes speed. If u want to implement parkour 2.0 at least buff basic speed across all frames to 150% for starters and if things look to slow for everyone, add 20-25% each "hotfix" till it looks decent. 

 

2) Loss of control, yes, i said it, we loose control in where we aim and how we engage enemies from what i saw in the devstream. You have to get close to wall, u have to jump on it and aim at it or someplace u want to go (meaning you can't target ur enemies). Now, i am not a Console player, but i would imagine this would be terrible for them, since in case they want to get somewhere or quickly move (?) out of the harms way, they can't even properly aim without mouse. Coptering or directional melee allowed quick methods of disengage in case things started to look too hot, if u remove that option u r either promoting specific squads and loadouts (no more random fun) or Camping with a combo of Speed Nova + Vauban + Necros +1 with a convergence point (if we r talking about endless here that is). 

 

3) We Absolutely ignore current enemies and here is a hint, a lot of mobs in warframe don't give a S#&$ about ur acrobatics, they hitscan, they aimbot, they puke at u so that u cannot do anything in that puke, they have 100% accuracy abilities (like scorpions pull).

 

Now here i am somewhere in Ceres/Pluto, jumping on wall, only to get instagibbed by ballista/a bunch of lancers/nullifier/pulled by scorpion, etc etc etc. Without a tanky warframe u r essentially doomed if u let enemies get too close for you, since you can't do anything that is not press 4 (and even then its a stretch). High level enemies will absolutely destroy anyone who is not fully prepared (which might be the underlying idea, but it will punish noobs heavily, to the point of game being unfair to them). 

 

4) The so called "rewarding experience", are we talking about the same game here? What is rewarding in void secret rooms exactly, besides random mods from drop containers and guardian mod? I know that on Prime Time there was a "community idea" revealed, to remove "stuff that drops from enemies and makes no sense" and put it into lockers. Is this our "bright future"? Hunting for resources by opening lockers in hope to get 1 neurode or 500 nano spores? 

 

 

Thats like on top of my head, without putting too much thought into other possible problems along the way. What i am saying is that you can't remove something valuable/fun/useful to a lot of people (which was there for a very long time) and give something "meh" as a substitute. 

[TennoSimons]

I cannot believe that not more people are upset about the elimination of wall running.

 

 

Wall running is iconic and looks and feels awesome. To me it is an essential element of Warframe, and the single most important parkour mechanic in the game. Indeed, look at the last trailer released by DE from Tennolive - it was all about Wallrunning.  I was not particularly impressed by the new Crouching-Tiger-Hidden-Dragon wall run anywhere mechanic that it was going to introduce. I felt the old wall running was fine. BUT! Even that was way better than this weird, scootching hop that looks terrible too. 

 

 I am disappointed by the elimination of coptering (though I do appreciate the merits of the argument that sprinting should be the fastest way to get from point A to B. Until you see people doing pirouettes at the Olympics during the 100 meter race, that should remain the case). I am also upset about the elimination of directional air melee (that was actually fun while it lasted).

 

But I am outright devastated by the elimination of wall running. They need to at least retain some horizonal Wall-run mechanic of some sort in addition to this new scootch.

[CTanGod]

I cannot believe that not more people are upset about the elimination of wall running.

 

 

Wall running is iconic and looks and feels awesome. To me it is an essential element of Warframe, and the single most important parkour mechanic in the game. Indeed, look at the last trailer released by DE from Tennolive - it was all about Wallrunning.  I was not particularly impressed by the new Crouching-Tiger-Hidden-Dragon wall run anywhere mechanic that it was going to introduce. I felt the old wall running was fine. BUT! Even that was way better than this weird, scootching hop that looks terrible too. 

 

 I am disappointed by the elimination of coptering (though I do appreciate the merits of the argument that sprinting should be the fastest way to get from point A to B. Until you see people doing pirouettes at the Olympics during the 100 meter race, that should remain the case). I am also upset about the elimination of directional air melee (that was actually fun while it lasted).

 

But I am outright devastated by the elimination of wall running. They need to at least retain some horizonal Wall-run mechanic of some sort in addition to this new scootch.

They changed wall running into wall hopping because with wall running you'd easily get stuck on small ridges and portrusions on the walls. With wall hopping the aim is to avoid getting stuck like that. Also if you really don't like it then you can avoid it since we'll have Charged Jumps, Double jumps, Air dashes, Enemies used as trampoleens and we'll go faster the more we hop around.

[Currystador]

From what we've seen so far the latest iteration of Parkour 2.0 is nowhere near as fast as coptering. Coptering being gone will make the game unplayably slow for anybody who's long bored of the repetitive corridors the game takes place in.

if you get bored of the repetitive corridors, then what are you playing? You're just getting from point A to point B and getting a reward, and doing point A to point B again to get another reward.

[TennoSimons]

Because there are literally no walls in Warframe where you could effectively use that sort of movement. In the gif, you can clearly see a long ! wall, which is ideal for the movement shown & it looks great & speedy. In-game however, there are absolutely no long flat surfaces for that to work on. There is always on obstruction jutting out from the wall or it's just plain too short of a wall.

 

My only gripe with the demo from today's stream is that the speed traveled horizontally is rather slow. I'm not expecting to go to infinity & beyond like with coptering, really, but the current iteration could use a boost. 

 

 

But there are long flat surfaces in the game (think the Grineer caves). Either way, I see no good reason for the elimination of wall run. Using wall hopping in lieu of wall running to cross long expanses of wall looks really goofy. 

 

I could support the wall hop mechanic if DE could find a way to make it work alongside the iconic Wall Run (like in the gif from the previous Dev Stream). If new tilesets do not have long walls, people do not have to use the wall run, and can avail themselves of the wall hop. During the event that introduced the new tile set though, I saw plenty of people wall running (and admittedly often wall catapulting) in the new underwater labs. 

 

TL;DR Parkour 2.0 needs for the new elements to feel like innovations and additions to Warframe's movement and traversal, not a replacement of what people love the most about it.

[TennoSimons]

I hope they find a way to integrate both wall-running and wall-hopping into parkour 2.0.

Perhaps hop could be triggered just by pressing jump, while wall-running requires no input other than "run" and a direction.

 

All my yes.

[Jinryusai]

I really hate the fact that parkour 2.0 completely obliterates any semblance of puzzle elements from travel and exploration.

But breaths a whole new life into platforming and levels in which you can go...

 

And alternative paths...

 

Can even have forced Parkour now.

[TennoSimons]

They changed wall running into wall hopping because with wall running you'd easily get stuck on small ridges and portrusions on the walls. With wall hopping the aim is to avoid getting stuck like that. Also if you really don't like it then you can avoid it since we'll have Charged Jumps, Double jumps, Air dashes, Enemies used as trampoleens and we'll go faster the more we hop around.

 

I really do not understand this argument. I have not had this problem myself. All the current tile sets allow for awesome and fun wall running. And when a wall run is not viable because of a level design - get this : you don't have to do it! Even currently, you can jump from a wall run and directional melee to navigate around ridges and protrusions. Watch good players in conclaves, they do it all the time. 

 

 

I have very strong feelings about this: and I am not simply against change. Indeed, I could get behind most of parcour 2.0 and supported it until this latest Devstream.  

 

I can get behind the elimination of stamina (though stamina never bothered me much personally since I learned how to copter effectively - and I am worried about how it will affect my stockhouse of arcane helmets that affect Stamina). 

 

I can get behind the elimination of coptering (see the rationale for it - hope it stays in for combat at least if not for movement)

 

I like the idea of a double jump (though I do not like the front flip animation personally), as long as it does not kill directional air melee attacks

 

I LOVE the idea of an air dodge (though we barely saw it in the stream, hope it is cool).

 

But I can never support killing wall running, which for me has always been exhilarating and what set WF most apart from other 3rd person shooters. I would be interested in this new wall hop (and what it offers in terms of getting around crags, small ridges, etc), as a supplement to wall running, but not as a replacement.

 

 

Go ahead and kill slingshotting, stamina and even coptering. Some will not like it (I myself will miss coptering  stamina, though I am clearly in the minority). Kill the abuses and bugs of the old system. We will live (well, some coptering enthusiasts may leave the game). But do not throw out the baby with the bathwater. Wall Running needs to stay.

[TheFalseEclipse]

Can we switch between current parkour and the upcoming one? since i more prefer to do wallrunning while aiming at enemy behind

[Bernkastal]

Slide jump is fling you.

Corny, outdated jokes aside, I'm a mixed bag of opinions here. I LOVE the emphasis on control. I REALLY love the emphasis on control. The double jumps and every surface being a platform to function off of really is a great mini problem-solving game in a game that allows for creative plays in the hands of the gamer. What I'm worried about is the massive slowing down of the overall parkour. My main defense in Warframe is my motion, not taking cover behind structures. I have a very mobile playstyle that is risk-reward for how fast I can pick enemies and get to a better vantage point. If everything is slowed down, enemies will receive less of an aim debuff, and I can be nuked straight out of the air. I feel like momentum preservation will need to be implemented somehow, or options given to somehow speed up mid-action, or the like-

Suggestions off the top of my head would be a 'surfaces touched' multiplier where each launch from a given surface increaces your overall speed. Simple sprinting will conserve the momentum, up to a certain cap, and melee damage can be increased based off movespeed. Rolls and the like can be used to set your speed to a higher than running speed immediately, but fall off if used at high speed, as to give you a directional reaction to enemy actions (heavy gunner slam, powerfist punch, ancient hook, etc.) also, some people don't like the bunny hop animations for sustained wall running. I can understand the feeling, and while it's not terribly troublesome for me personally, retaining some form if wall run may make players more comfortable.

[Bio-Organic-Yahn]

I really hope they globally increase sprint speed with this.

More than (or in stead of) that, I want to add another voice to the "make the jumps jump further laterally" opinion. If we can conjure energy to defy gravity, we can surely use it to move forward. 

 

I think our players can handle faster movement with less air (and more wall/scaling/vaulting) time. 

 

Watching what they're doing, it seems like they're trying to make the game more accessible to casual players. Which is great, business wise and in a few other senses. But boring as hell to a lot of the veteran players. 

 

-Love the thread, I'll keep following/posting if I don't bother anyone (as new ideas come up?). 

[Kruglov]

It looks nice but it also looks slow.

 

 

I've said it before and I will say it again.

 

THE ENTIRE GAME NEEDS A small SPEED BOOST.

 

Everything.

Not just Warframes. Enemies. Doors. Cameras. Machines. Sentinals. Drones. Kubrows. Even those coconuts on Earth.

 

 

Give everything EVERYTHING in the game that moves and animates a speed/animation boost of 30% and everything would feel absolutely perfect.

Maybe even give enemies a bigger speed boost than Warframes so it really feels like you're being chased sometimes and not just outrunning everything that isn't a Manic. So you feel like you NEED to swim into groups of bad guys and blow them up as opposed to sprinting past and avoiding them.

 

 

That's the one thing this game has needed.

Coptering was a solution to Warframes feeling sluggish (outside of loki, volt, hydroid, and excal).

And now we have this new Parkour 2.0 and it looks fantastic.

 

Like it looks really good honestly.

DE have done some cool S#&$ lately what with the Excalibur rework (absolutely fab) and finally saying how shotguns and the Supra were gonna get fixed. Plus all the new PBR textures. Fab, just fab.

 

But Parkour 2.0 still looks just the tiniest ittiest bittiest teensiest weensiest bit too slow.

But it's not a fault of the animations or any one it's just the game as a whole has always felt the tiniest bit slow.

I really hope one day DE consider just increasing the speed of the whole game.

Not alot just a skosh. A chunk. A bit. A pile.

Enough to make the frames and enemies look and feel as agile as they appear.

 

 

 

 

Anyway I suspect I will enjoy Parkour 2.0 as long as I am one of the frames that has a good mobility power.

[Bio-Organic-Yahn]

I have very strong feelings about this: and I am not simply against change. Indeed, I could get behind most of parcour 2.0 and supported it until this latest Devstream.  

 

I can get behind the elimination of stamina (though stamina never bothered me much personally since I learned how to copter effectively - and I am worried about how it will affect my stockhouse of arcane helmets that affect Stamina). 

 

I can get behind the elimination of coptering (see the rationale for it - hope it stays in for combat at least if not for movement)

 

I like the idea of a double jump (though I do not like the front flip animation personally), as long as it does not kill directional air melee attacks

 

I LOVE the idea of an air dodge (though we barely saw it in the stream, hope it is cool).

 

But I can never support killing wall running, which for me has always been exhilarating and what set WF most apart from other 3rd person shooters. I would be interested in this new wall hop (and what it offers in terms of getting around crags, small ridges, etc), as a supplement to wall running, but not as a replacement.

 

 

Go ahead and kill slingshotting, stamina and even coptering. Some will not like it (I myself will miss coptering  stamina, though I am clearly in the minority). Kill the abuses and bugs of the old system. We will live (well, some coptering enthusiasts may leave the game). But do not throw out the baby with the bathwater. Wall Running needs to stay.

Wanted to emphasize everything I didn't edit out. Just had that haunting thought about arcane helmets today (I guess I'm slow but still).

 

Continuous wall running is very fun when you can do it, and removing errors like slingshot would make it what it should be I agree.

 

I'd like to deviate a little on what you said about air attacks though, I've always thought it's weird how far swinging a weapon could take us (or even spinning around with the legendary staff air attack, which shouldn't give any forward momentum). I think it should move a person, but not more than say 5-10 feet/meters.

 

Air dodge is wonderful. RN I can't think of how useful it would be though for the act of dodging, unless it has invulnerability frames? I could just be short sighted on that though. 

[Bio-Organic-Yahn]

You know what I really think we could use? (NOT trying to offend Space Mom).

 

A better demonstrator for these increasingly common stream reveals. 

 

Have someone practice, the livestreams are important in telling the community what's going on, and giving us a chance to better advise or suggest a better result.

 

The scripts(?) should also include what they'll show specifically, and how they'll show it. One rehearsal by the person who will reveal would help (or 1 more than they already do, if any).

 

How bad could the job be? They're playing a video game.

[RahuHordika]

a supplement to wall running, but not as a replacement.

To emphasize on this bit I'll mention what I feel are 3 fundamental principles of parkour in a fast paced game (which is warframe's case):

-Speed

-Mobility

-Agility

With the asethetics to match them.

Current system has:

Speed: It's simple, the current systes is not holycrapcopterfast but is is fast and when set up properly it can be a viable alternative to plain running if not better. You can get from point A to B quickly without to the need to lose any speed.

Agility: Wallrunning is farily fluid in it's movement and the ability to fling yourself away, as well as it's combination with air melee allows for it to get to gain height advantage when necesary without the need of requiring much nedleelsy complicated actions. Also as said above the fluidity and speed can be mantained between moves without making it necesary to slow down.

Proposed system has:

Mobility: The precision and control over your movements is very important for traversals, long or short, as the current system lacks the necesary precision for far more complex actions. The added option of having pretty much any surface as a possible platform is also a great addition.

Agility is present but to a lesser degree since everything seems to be dependant on the double jumping.

The point here is that I think most of us expected the new system to take on what we had and make it better, basically adding mobility to the current system. Instead what we were shown not only looks like a severe downgrade of the previews but basically takes away what is good about the current system and inverts the 'has' and 'lacks' of it, which is honestly not a good think.

Instead we should have a combination of both to truthly improve on what we have.

[TaylorsContraction]

DE got rid of wall running because it's superfluous. You can get the same result with wall hoping, so there is no need for it. To have both would require a clunky input scheme and probably more work. I'm happy to give up wall running so long as they improve the hopping.

Increase horizontal speed from hops, improve the animations, and everyone is happy (mostly).

[(XBOX)CeaselessSlim]

We should be able to have the option to wall run also.

it did look interesting....untill it was done with frost.

The jumpy parkor dident look right with him. Maby if u guys put in a bit more flair (ie: some spins of some sort) in some of the wall hops it wouldent look as awkward as it did when frost had to jump 3 times just to get up a wall that's not really that high.

Maby its because frost is slow. Is, just looked odd when frost did it.

Edited June 27, 2015 by (XB1)CeaselessSlim

[CrimsonNightSky]

Two things that I think the new system might promote are more active gameplay and a higher skill ceiling on movement. For something like the repeated hops off of walls, some people might be able to buttonmash their way through successfully. However, if/once you learn nuances like distance and timing, you should be able to get much more skilled/fluid looking movement.

It's like comparing the system to a fighting game. Button mashers will probably be able to do something that looks pretty cool and is somewhat effective, but players who have invested time learning the interactions will be able to do much more controlled and impressive things.

Also, while I think wallrunning was a really cool concept, ultimately it was sort of a 'get from point a to point b' on a wall. The way we used it was sort of 'latch on and let the level do the rest of the work.' Some of the coolest parts about it are still being considered (running+jumping from wall to wall). And I think that there might be some more flexibility for adding and designing new parkour/puzzle related challenges since the average player should be able to use vertical movement easily.

One thing that I'll really and truly miss: Watching frost slowly droop (melt :P) off of a wall => off the stage during a long wallrun. Doesn't matter if it was me or someone else, watching this still makes me laugh.

[Kainosh]

Devstream 55 made me sad.

 

Jump based parcour is a fking boring sht.  You dont have to plan your moves or something....You just hop, hop, hop.

 

No need to manage anything coz there is no stamina...No need to aim properly coz you always can double jump...No need to combine different moves to get somwhere...

 

I expected current moveset expansion... Not complere minimalism and degradation.

 

 

Why not let us fly?