How Is Greedy Pull An Exploit ? If Its Working As Intended

[Halser]

I did say they have a lot to work on the Loot/Reward system. Didn't I? I am well aware of how grindy the game is.

I am in no way, shape or form patting DE in the back and saying "GOOD JOB!". Personally I see no problem in people finding their way to farm efficiently.

But let's face it, this is DE's game, it is not in our power to post a myriad of threads on a subject AND against said subject and expect they will obey us.

Also, I did point out that they have PLANS for new mission systems and whatnot. I can only expect they do it right and make things less painful, no?

@ Rake the prime access cash, that may be the intention.. or maybe it isn't. One thing is for certain, a lot of people play warframe for a loooooong time now despite all the conspiracy theorycraft. If anything, this game is less bad at that than a thousand of Free to play games out there.

'It's their game' does not, in any way, mean that people shouldn't complain about bad things.

 

This game is primarily a product that Digital Extremes, a large company that's been on the market for decades, is attempting to sell to you. Not directly, of course, but through small purchases. They are not doing this out of the kindness of their hearts, they want your money. You, as a consumer(whether or spend a lot of money on plat or not) have all the right to complain if the product you're being offered is of low quality on some aspect.

 

There's no reason to pretend that the grind and low drop chances are not a means they use to entice you to spend more money on their game. It's nothing inherently scummy or malicious, it's part of the package, but we have the power and the right to tell them when they go too far. At the end of the day, we pay their salary, whether by buying hundreds of dollars worth of plat, taking plat from people that buy it, or just inflating the count of online players so the game attracts more potential customers.

 

Of course they don't have to 'obey' us in a strict sense, but it's a poor business practice to ignore the source of your money. I have spent more money than I'd like to admit on virtual hats for Team Fortress 2, but I refrain from spending even a single dollar on Warframe nowadays, because they have gone too far with their business practices and I have absolutely no desire to buy anything for cash.

 

And about plans, DE plans a lot of things, but what matters for the player is what they're experiencing right now. And right now we're experiencing an increase in grind and very near plans to make it even more annoying. We all have a stock good will to spend, but for me and several other players that have been accompanying the game for a long time, that portion is running dry.

[f3llyn]

I like how you guys sit around and talk crap about de in all sorts of manner and call them cash grabbers and things.

 

only to forget that they release hotfixes and patches on sundays and weekends, work through holidays and are always posting and gathering feedback in the forums.  you forget how often thy stay up till 3 or 4 in the morning trying to make sure they get the update as clean as possible.

 

 

tell me those are the actions of a cash grabber.

 

they sound more like the self sacrifice of a dev who loves the game.

 

No one and nothing is above criticism. No matter how you feel about it. I'm sorry that is disappointing to you.

 

What's disappointing to me is that DE have refused to fix some of the major core issues this game has after years.

 

And saying they've neglected to fix problems the game has is not talking crap about them. If anything it's a statement of fact. So once again I'm sorry that is disappointing to you.

Edited July 4, 2015 by f3llyn

[ThePresident777]

H>Pod Baby Sitting Festival, Space Ninjas Need Not Apply 

H>Pod Baby Sitting Festival, Space Ninjas Need Not Apply 

H>Pod Baby Sitting Festival, Space Ninjas Need Not Apply 

 

DE made the camp grounds.  DE made the camping gear.  Then, when people use it, DE nerfs it.  Then they make more camp grounds and more camp gear.    Then, when people use it, DE nerfs it.  Then, DE makes more camp grounds and more camp gear.....................This is what DE calls evolution.  Breaking and reissuing the same thing over and over again, ad infinitum.

 

If DE is going to keep nerfing Space Camping then why not just get rid of it all together?

 

And why is everyone Space Camping?  Because DE put the rewards there and not in Space Ninja.  DE constantly steers the player base around with rewards.  The sure fire way for DE to get something nerfed is to make it good.  Then, all of a sudden there are 200 threads a day calling for "NERF OP" and DE complies, says the players asked for it.  The people who swamp the forums afterwards, out numbering the nerfers, cursing the nerfs are always forgotten.

[vomder]

Any time de doesn't like something that's how they justify getting rid of it.

[taiiat]

if De actually tested their content

you can grow up now.

like any other Developer, any released version is tested. you'll always miss things (or see things from a different angle). that's how it works.

or you can stick your foot in your mouth with your lack of back knowledge as to what you're talking about.

any game you might reference that you think is 'perfect', could be taken apart in a few hours with tons of problems that were still around.

[Lightsmith]

Using it to go AFK would be an "exploit" but Greedy Pull in itself isn't an exploit.

[-skimmer-]

Any time de doesn't like something that's how they justify getting rid of it.

 

Usualy I dont disagree with them.

[Halser]

I like how you guys sit around and talk crap about de in all sorts of manner and call them cash grabbers and things.

 

only to forget that they release hotfixes and patches on sundays and weekends, work through holidays and are always posting and gathering feedback in the forums.  you forget how often thy stay up till 3 or 4 in the morning trying to make sure they get the update as clean as possible.

 

 

tell me those are the actions of a cash grabber.

 

they sound more like the self sacrifice of a dev who loves the game.

You're looking at the small picture. It's easy to feel pity on a developer that's working at 4AM to release a patch for a game, but I don't dislike any developer in particular, I dislike DE as a company. The devs are also not working until 4AM strictly because they love their game(I don't doubt they do, given the origins of the project), but the paycheck at the end of the month is a very good motivator for that.

 

And at the end of the day, if the product they deliver is lacking in some fashion, it doesn't matter if they worked harder in a week than an entire vietnamese workshop does in a year, I will still complain about it. It's my right, if they want to take my money.

 

And calling a company a 'cash grabber' is in no way an insult. It's their purpose, in the end. The feedback here is given so that people feel that when their cash is taken, they're getting something valuable to them in return. When the game is in a state where people complain about the grind on the forums frequently, then giving the company responsible money just doesn't feel right. You may be fine with spending money on the game on its current(and future) state, but many people here are not, and because of that, they complain.

 

It's a harsh way to look at it when you think of Steve or Scott having more coffee than blood on their veins at the eve of a big update release, but that's not what you should be thinking about. You should be thinking about what they're offering and what you're getting for whatever money you may or may not spend.

[SuperWeedy-EGT-]

This is a grind game, end of story. If people wish to make it even more tedious by nerfing Gmag then so be it. On a positive side it might raise the price of items I can sell if you actually have to battle your way through T4 Def instead of rushing through with Mesa and Mag.

[c.BOLTSON]

I don't know about you guys but for the longest time I have built for speed or had a mobility melee weapon for the prime reason of being able to zip around the map to find loot, pickups, or just times where I need to gtfo etc...

Gmag takes the fun out of games to an extent but at the same time that ability is very useful too. I will say that I'm not one of the people calling for nerfs or anything. Maybe we can come up with an intelligent solution as a community?

[TheGrimCorsair]

I'm gonna guess this has been said multiple times, but I'll go ahead and echo it:

Greedy Pull is not an *exploit,* its function is being *exploited* to facilitate gameplay not in line with the way DE envisions the game working, chief among them, it makes bunkering a far stronger a tactic than it otherwise would be.

[Crimson_Hime]

The bigger issue in my opinion how annoying and boring leveling stuff gets. Need to 6 forma gun, sure just play for 4h straight. or just do a level with a lot of xp and be done in 1h or less (aka draco). After that keep playing whatever you want. Sure greedy pull is used a bit too much, but it does what the augment says. I hate running after all the energy orbs that my wf cant pick unless i'm right next to it. That's why no one can give up carriers and gmag is preferred in groups. Why punish players for finding good way to level up fast?

Sure there are people who just power level to mr18 but that's another issue. The bigger reason is the massive grindwall that is needed to get all the xp to reach rank 30. And don't start with loki stealth affinity bonus. Not all want to play loki. 

[(PSN)Akuma_Asura_]

you can grow up now.

like any other Developer, any released version is tested. you'll always miss things (or see things from a different angle). that's how it works.

or you can stick your foot in your mouth with your lack of back knowledge as to what you're talking about.

any game you might reference that you think is 'perfect', could be taken apart in a few hours with tons of problems that were still around.

There is no need for the rudeness && first all greedy pull had been out for a good amount of time now, && it's not being nerfed because it is broken but because it is being used a lot aka abused . also since it's been out for awhile I'm pretty sure De has noticed what you are taking about and chose not to act upon it then. So that means they are only making a chance to greedy pull because there is such a high demand for it. Not because it is broken

[neKroMancer]

Warframe is a fast paced TPS game. Sitting in one place, smashing one button for an hour isn't really going well with that concept. This is the reason for the change.

As for loot system, that will require more time and fundamental change of the game's nature which will be received badly by at least half community (as always, changes are never appreciated even when the overall quality is better). This problem is persistent even in a bigger name in the genre (Diablo farming is quite worst than Warframe, really).

Greedy pull change is another bandaid before the bigger change.

[StormBeast3]

Greedy pull isn't an exploit. It's how it is being used for farming that is exploiting. Gmag is usually accompanied by a nekros and a hydroid or mesa, this means the players are standing still using powers and trollolololing through the game not actually playing it. That is the exploit DE wants to nerf, and in that process it is likely DE will make greedy pull only work for the mag using it, not the other players to stop it being used as an exploit.

 

I'm sorry to tell you but the whole game has been like this before greedy pull. if it isn't pull its mesa/frost/ some other combo of just sit still and spam  your ult to win.

[(PSN)geb9696]

Warframe is a fast paced TPS game. Sitting in one place, smashing one button for an hour isn't really going well with that concept. This is the reason for the change.

If that is the case then multiple missions need to be reworked.  The primary goal in the following missions is to sit in one place and not move around.

The List:

1. Defense

2. Mobile Defense

3. Excavation

4. Interception

5. The second portion on the raid

 

Out of 16 mission types 5 require you to stay in one place for an extended amount of time.  In survival the easiest way to get high spawn numbers is to stay in one place for an extended amount of time.  All of the modes that grant the highest amount of affinity and rewards require you to stay in once place for an extended amount of time.  If the idea is truly to be an active and mobile tenno then I would recommend DE take a long hard look at their mission types and reward system.  That is not even getting into Warframe abilities in which multiple are based on being stationary and defending a specific point on a map.

Edited July 4, 2015 by (PS4)geb9696

[holdenagincourt]

I don't see why three pages of explanation are necessary. If you simply look at the history of major balance changes in Warframe, it's clear that dev has chopped down the dominant strategies for what is basically afk farming whenever it has become too out of control.

 

This is clear even in the case of very old nerfs that almost no one who's here was around for, like the nerf/rework to Banshee's Sound Quake in spring 2013. People farmed the Corpus spaceship defense map on Xini and other places with that power and basically killed the entire wave at spawn on the entire map because of its broken damage and range.

 

In a separate but related vein, why do you suppose Trinity has been nerfed/changed so many times? Is it because she is, on her own, an oppressively powerful frame? The obvious reason is that she is extremely problematic from a game balance/game economy perspective because she is the enabler for a variety of strategies that trivialize game content. When Blessing made the entire cell permanently invulnerable with no cast range limitation, this was even more acute.

 

Just because something in isolation is working as dev had tested and released it does not mean that in its interactions with the rest of the game, which can only become known in the fullness of living in the wild of public release, it is working as dev intends.

Edited July 4, 2015 by holdenagincourt

[f3llyn]

Warframe is a fast paced TPS game. Sitting in one place, smashing one button for an hour isn't really going well with that concept. This is the reason for the change.

As for loot system, that will require more time and fundamental change of the game's nature which will be received badly by at least half community (as always, changes are never appreciated even when the overall quality is better). This problem is persistent even in a bigger name in the genre (Diablo farming is quite worst than Warframe, really).

Greedy pull change is another bandaid before the bigger change.

 

Sure. But this problem isn't new and the complaints about it aren't new. The loot system became a huge problem the exact moment they put in the card mod system and up to this point they haven't done a single thing about it except for make it worse.

 

That's 2 and a half years, if you want to keep track.

 

So saying it will just require more time is excusing DE from their complete lack of fixes for the issue so far.

Edited July 4, 2015 by f3llyn

[Omnimorph]

Please Explain?

&& also this is a game, people are going to find efficient ways to play the game. So even if they get rid of radial javelin excal , he WILL be replaced by peacemaker mesa. && if they do Nerf greedy mag , she WILL be replaced by EV trinity. Efficient ways to farm/play doesn't equal 'Exploit.'

Btw I do not use Gmag or peace mesa and do not use this any of these methods mentioned, I'm just wondering what kind of mindset do the devs have.

 

They made two mistakes with Greedy Pull, IMHO:-

 

1) They made Syndicate Augments tradeable; and

 

2) They made Greedy Pull PBAoE.  It's the PBAoE aspect that makes it way overpowered.  If it were LoS like Pull itself is, there would be no problem, it would still be very useful, but not OP.

[Cloud]

You're looking at it backwards. The need for gmap is just a symptom of the real problem. Nerfing gmag out of existance won't fix the actual problem.

 

It's like trying to cure a simple cough when the real issue is tuberculosis. Sure you can cure the cough for a little while, but sooner or later the real issue is going to pop up again and it's going to be worse because you neglected it the first time.

 

And this is an issue DE has been neglecting for a long time.

Man u're complaining for the grind ... this is the game in which u can obtain a weapon/frame in Max one week , and in trade for 20-30 pl u can buy whole sets. You don't know what true grind is. 

 

G. Pull is not an exploit, it is a broken feature. IT IS NOT SYNERGY, IT IS NOT EFFICIENT WAY TO PLAY, IT IS NOT TEAMPLAY, IT IS JUST LAZY MECHANIC who discourage players from moving, kill, looting , in few words : You don't play, you just sit there (probably with macros) and farm.

 

If u don't find the game anymore appealing, and all what u do is to use meta combinations to farm,  u should take a break. 

[(PSN)Legendary_badguy]

I see a lot of comment saying thats not how the game is supposed to be played. How is this game suppose to be played then?

[f3llyn]

Man u're complaining for the grind ... this is the game in which u can obtain a weapon/frame in Max one week , and in trade for 20-30 pl u can buy whole sets. You don't know what true grind is. 

 

G. Pull is not an exploit, it is a broken feature. IT IS NOT SYNERGY, IT IS NOT EFFICIENT WAY TO PLAY, IT IS NOT TEAMPLAY, IT IS JUST LAZY MECHANIC who discourage players from moving, kill, looting , in few words : You don't play, you just sit there (probably with macros) and farm.

 

If u don't find the game anymore appealing, and all what u do is to use meta combinations to farm,  u should take a break. 

 

Nice strawman you got going on there.

 

Next time try addressing what I said not what you want me to have said.

 

And then there is this:

 

synergy noun, plural synergies.

1.

the interaction of elements that when combined produce a total effect that is greater than the sum of the individual elements, contributions,etc.; synergism.

 

 

I will agree that it is lazy and/or bad game design though. I've said that multiple times if you actually bothered to read and understand my posts.

 

And once again this is an on going issue that DE has neglected to fix for at least the last 2 years.

Edited July 4, 2015 by f3llyn

[Eisvogel]

H > Triton, need gp mag

H > Draco, need gp mag

H > T4 defence, need gp mag

 

This is not how the game is supposed to be played. Yes I know people find the most efficient methods to get what they want due to the huge grindwall but that doesn't mean you let 1 button do all the work for you. The augment itself is corrupt and needs to be gotten rid of instead of being nerfed into a self-serving mod which is going to become superfluous IMO.

 

Sadly this game has always been about letting one button do all the work for you, and the only differences are what the people are going to ask. Just like with raids, people always say need XXX.

 

You'll see need => Frost / Mesa / Gmag / Trinity

 

And that's simply because the 1 button playstyle and how DE has made the game awfully weak in terms of fighting playstyle.

Didn't they think about that when making a stationary free for all killing machine (Mesa..... press 4 and hold click while drinking coffee.... really?)

 

So i dunno

[Swailwort]

Everybody knows Gmag is broken in anything but a Mesa Based Defense/Interception and Draco/Void Defense

Have you tried to play with a Gmag in a regular planetary defense?

Have you ever felt the hate when you have an energy orb that you need in front of you and suddenly dissapears?

GMAG needs to be taken out. It has led to lazyness in this game.

[EmptyDevil]

Can't wait for Greedy Pull to be nerfed. It deserves to be and i hope it's less useful than a carrier afterward.