Nullifiers As A Bandaid Fix And How To Balance Them.

[SanctumDraconis]

BTW nullifiers are love love love. Love the fact that they will rape players who venture into T3 and T4 orokin missions with their brain-dead draco mentality

[Hypernaut1]

BTW nullifiers are love love love. Love the fact that they will rape players who venture into T3 and T4 orokin missions with their brain-dead draco mentality

yes, i enjoy the tears. Nullifiers are not that difficult.

[McGoodGreen]

Throw me in with the crowd that does not mind the Nullifiers one bit.

 

They really are not that difficult, not for me. I do believe they may be too difficult for some people, and not to be one of those people but...change up your tactics? I'm not trying to say "git good" here, as plenty of people who are good can still play poorly against certain things...letting their frustrations cloud their actions.

 

I joined long after their introduction and never got to play the game before they were a thing. That "could" very well be why I do not mind them, I never had to adjust my play style for them. I simply had to learn that they were a mechanic, and could be dealt with in X such a way. Honestly, I don't ever see that many of them...and the modes where I HAVE seen a large scale of them they STILL don't last long at all.

 

That doesn't mean I wouldn't be keen on a change though. Just because I can handle them easily, doesn't mean they may not need an evaluation. But all this constant talk of "its just a band aid" and "remove this annoying mechanic" I think is just a little too far...I think the Nullifiers provide in a pretty reasonable manner, a fun mechanic that keeps you on your toes. Does it need tweaking? Possibly, but not by much, and the addition at all is perfectly okay and supported by me.

Edited July 6, 2015 by McGoodGreen

[KennPhoton]

I'd just like for DE to change the Nullifier bubbles so that they don't make my precious Dread useless. I guess I could just melee them, like other posters suggested... I don't know. I don't want to be punished for trying to dispatch enemies at a long-range just because it happens to have a lower RoF (when it usually kills other units in one hit).

 

If DE were to change anything, it would just be the damage cap on the bubble. Everything else about them is fine though.

[Vesiga]

DE please listen to this player and nerf the ugly-looking noob-inducing boltor prime

Just put Boltor prime at a higher mastery lock.. lmao. It's meant to be a high tier weapon. 

It's not OP

It's "OP" if used in low tier things but this is like being a lv 80 in a MMO and going to a lv 20 zone and one shotting things. 

[GreyEnneract]

I understand their purpose is to negate AOE but they cant really do that if you allow non AOE powers to go through it things like Hysteria, Iron Skin, Invisibility, ect. would make killing nullifiers far too easy and not allow them to fulfil their purpose and if someone has the technology to nullify some powers why would they not be able to nullify all powers.

I never said they should negate everything in the game other than high fire rate weapons and most of the weapons i use are generally low rate of fire.

 

 

 

The only thing here that can really give them any survivability is ancients other than that 200 shields really wont make a difference. Personally I have never had a problem one shotting nullifiers with a slide attack and the only time I ever really take their shields down is when im in a defense and have a mesa killing everything.

It would not make killing Nullifiers too easy because like I said, they are always surrounded by other enemies.

 

All I can really say to your second response is to play the game past level 25. 

[Plorf]

I agree on your reasoning, and Nullifiers have some nasty interactions with enemies like Ancients and Bombards. But I don't usually have too many issues with them until it gets to very high levels.

 

In my opinion, energy drain units are a much more problematic bandaid fix. Not only do they have no counterplay whatsoever, but they screw over solo players ans friend groups way more than they do elite farm squads. I've said this before but all energy drain should be temporary.

[-Amaterasu-]

It would not make killing Nullifiers too easy because like I said, they are always surrounded by other enemies.

 

All I can really say to your second response is to play the game past level 25. 

 

Other enemies dont apply to abilities like hysteria or invisibility that can hide you from aggro or put you in a position where you cant be killed nullifiers are already one of the easiest enemies in the void to take down health wise as they are essentially crewmen so if you can hit them they will drop in a second.

 

Considering the fact that I play T4 Void missions all day where enemies get between level 60-80 I would take a serious look at your loadout other enemies dont really give the nullifier a valid defence unless it's an ancient blocking 90% of it and you cant always count on enemies being near them.

[GreyEnneract]

Other enemies dont apply to abilities like hysteria or invisibility that can hide you from aggro or put you in a position where you cant be killed nullifiers are already one of the easiest enemies in the void to take down health wise as they are essentially crewmen so if you can hit them they will drop in a second.

 

Considering the fact that I play T4 Void missions all day where enemies get between level 60-80 I would take a serious look at your loadout other enemies dont really give the nullifier a valid defence unless it's an ancient blocking 90% of it and you cant always count on enemies being near them.

Other enemies still apply because they buff the survivability of the Nullifier. That's all there is to it.

[-Amaterasu-]

Other enemies still apply because they buff the survivability of the Nullifier. That's all there is to it.

In the context of the abilities I described earlier enemies provide no survivability for the nullifier if you were allowed to use things like that then other enemies are trivial because they would either not aggro to you and do absolutely nothing while you killed the nullifier or would aggro to you but be able to do nothing about it since you're invincible. The only enemy really capable of any real damage reduction in the void would be the ancient's buff.

[GreyEnneract]

In the context of the abilities I described earlier enemies provide no survivability for the nullifier if you were allowed to use things like that then other enemies are trivial because they would either not aggro to you and do absolutely nothing while you killed the nullifier or would aggro to you but be able to do nothing about it since you're invincible. The only enemy really capable of any real damage reduction in the void would be the ancient's buff.

Still ignoring shield drones. I see.

CC still affects Valkyr within Hysteria, and in the first place it shouldn't provide invincibility. 

As far as invisibility goes, it is completely fine. It allows Loki to still play one of his two roles as a frame, using melee.

He would still have to ignore surrounding enemies to target the nullifier, this just allows him to use melee again as intended originally.

[-Amaterasu-]

Still ignoring shield drones. I see.

CC still affects Valkyr within Hysteria, and in the first place it shouldn't provide invincibility. 

As far as invisibility goes, it is completely fine. It allows Loki to still play one of his two roles as a frame, using melee.

He would still have to ignore surrounding enemies to target the nullifier, this just allows him to use melee again as intended originally.

I Really don't count 200 shield as much of an added buff and if there is a mag in the game then drones are more detrimental than anything.

CC Does NOT affect Valkyr in Hysteria she is completely immune to all damage and status effects regardless of wheather or not you think she should or shouldn't be.

Invisibility would be just as op as any other power if it were allowed to be used within the bubble it pretty much guarentees crits and again nothing would aggro to you which goes back to my origional argument that it would make them too easy to kill; When the nullifier deactivates powers like these it at least gives the enemies a fair enough chance at killing you.

Edited July 6, 2015 by -Amaterasu-

[GreyEnneract]

CC Does NOT affect Valkyr in Hysteria 

Now I know you don't play the game.

Disregarding.

[-Amaterasu-]

Now I know you don't play the game.

Disregarding.

 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Valkyr_(Warframe)

 

Unless they made some change that i'm unaware of and the wiki hasn't updated then no valkyr cant be stumbled, dragged, knocked down, ect.

[GreyEnneract]

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Valkyr_(Warframe)

 

Unless they made some change that i'm unaware of and the wiki hasn't updated then no valkyr cant be stumbled, dragged, knocked down, ect.

Being immune to status effects is not being immune to CC.

[-Amaterasu-]

Care to elaborate on CC a bit then because I fail to see how an enemy in any way could countroll a Valkyr without the ability to inflict any form of status effect.

[GreyEnneract]

Care to elaborate on CC a bit then because I fail to see how an enemy in any way could countroll a Valkyr without the ability to inflict any form of status effect.

Shockwave Moa and Ancients.

There have been countless times where I'd be reviving an ally only to be knocked away or knocked down.

[(PSN)SofeSNBR]

For those saying Nullifier is a challenge , is it not , it's just annoyance , it take a bit more time to kill , make many weapon useless 

block your skills

 

Oh wait , it's totally block your skills , this is something like mind breaking ...

 

Corpus have technology to BLOCK 100% your powers and having hight capacity to survive / tank ...

 

Simple question : what really stop them for making only Nullifier or actually "nullified powers planet"? You know what I mean , As soon you enter your power is gone until your destroy whatever powering it...

Well it doesnt block banshee resonance... wait maybe i shouldnt say that.

 

Would a per-shot damage cap suffice? What i mean is that the bubble functions as it currently does, but if you hit it hard enough, about 5k damage in one shot, it overloads and completely collapses, which should fix to problem with high damage/low ROF weapons being useless, since most can hit 5000 damage relatively easily.

Tested using partially modded (catalyst,no forma) on Vectis, Opticor, Dread and Paris Prime. All achieve 5000+ damage on a single shot. Build used is 3 90% elementals, Serration and Split chamber

This is how smart devolper WOULD DO IT. Sadly, it seems we dont have that luxury.

[-Amaterasu-]

Well it doesnt block banshee resonance... wait maybe i shouldnt say that.

Molecular prime will also still explode enemies killed in the bubble but it blocks the buffs

[KillingDyl]

Just throwing out some ideas and i think i came up with one that could fix the issue and also buffs snipers.

 

So what I am think is that every single sniper has some innate punch through of maybe 3m+ or so. The nullifier's bubble then can be punch through with weapons with punch through of at least 2m+ or so.

 

Just an idea, I don't think the nullifier's effect should be changed because they are a great concept and they achieved their goals. The problem is that they indirectly nerfed the effectiveness of slow fire rate high damage guns.

[GreyEnneract]

Just throwing out some ideas and i think i came up with one that could fix the issue and also buffs snipers.

 

So what I am think is that every single sniper has some innate punch through of maybe 3m+ or so. The nullifier's bubble then can be punch through with weapons with punch through of at least 2m+ or so.

 

Just an idea, I don't think the nullifier's effect should be changed because they are a great concept and they achieved their goals. The problem is that they indirectly nerfed the effectiveness of slow fire rate high damage guns.

They also nerfed melee ("Sword Alone"). However having a punchthrough of 2m+ is a nice idea, seeing as Shred wouldn't be enough to penetrate it. It would give some use to the punchthrough only mods.

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

Moved to General Feedback.

[jfhsanseiIII]

I think they're great with the exception of slow fire high damage weapons not being able to take down the bubble in a timely fashion. They break up gameplay. Force players to think about positioning, tactics, and think creatively on the spot. That's a good thing in my opinion. It Is a good way to make players not rely on four spam. Excali it's ability to hack the shield down is a little too easy in my opinion, but a step in the right direction. If DE takes away 'press four for instant apocolypse' abikities and makes them more creative and fun like excaliburs then I think this kind of complaint will go away. As all gameplay will require more thoughtful input.

[-Amaterasu-]

Shockwave Moa and Ancients.

There have been countless times where I'd be reviving an ally only to be knocked away or knocked down.

 

Being skewed ever so slightly to the side isn't going to be enough to stop you from killing a nullifier as a valk when hysteria lasts for more than a min. and half the time the push is just enough to inconvenience you from reviving someone which i really wouldn't call CC considering you can undo the distance pushed in about half a second. The nullifier itself has no CC abilities at all and without the ability to nullify powers would not be able to stop a valk charging it

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

1. Agreed.

2. No.

3. No.

4. No.

5. Huge no.  Dispelling already cast powers is their main purpose. Removing it effectively destroys their entire point.

6. I don't mind this, but it makes them far more dangerous because instead of standing in the distance shooting at you, they are going to be rushing you down.

7. No.

 

Honestly, Nullifiers are pretty decent where they are.  They are the type of enemies I wanted instead of energy drain units.  Turning off your powers is a lot more fair than draining all your energy rapidly.

 

They just need their bubbles to be affected by punch-through, or they need to take into account the type of weapon hitting them when figuring how many hits it should take to pop the bubble. A sniper should pop a bubble in less hits than a boltor.