Can We Please Leave Mesa Alone?

[(PSN)whoistimjones]

Make me leave?

 

I've added to the conversation. It wasn't 'your comparison sucks' giving no indication why so it's very clear. Your comparison of 'OP' (really? REALLY?) is poor. I don't even know why it needs expansion. It undermines any points you're trying to make.

Make you leave? How childish are you? Yet again you add nothing to the conversation you just try to undermine me. I wish i could "make you leave" by blocking you. Ill just ignore you from now on, internet warrior. Goodbye

 

 

I hope you respond to this because I'm looking really forward to having this debate with you.

1) Disarm does not wipe them instantly from map and nuke enemies as soon as come into LoS. If they are tanky, they remain tanky, and they gain insanely damaging melee that can down you in one or two hits. If you are not careful to kite them or maintain your distance, you are screwed. Invisible does not mean invincible. Stray bullets. AOE, all that can ill you because he's really squishy.

 

2)You know enemies can still shoot you? And you actually have to do something else other than hold one button to kill them? Tough enemies stay tough, and unless you got strong weapon, you are screwed lol. The Wormhole? It's slower and more clunky than simply parkouring.

 

3)Banshee can stunlock and do negligible damage and become unable to use any other weapons while stunlocking. As soon as she's done, they'll still be tough, just getting up. Oh and she has to check that she isn't one shot from behind cause she is really really squishy. She has to plan and actually think instead of just holding one button to kill everything in LoS.

 

4)Ash's Bladestorm needs rework like mesa's peacemaker. I fully agree with you on this one. They're same except that Ash has a set number of enemies he kills per cast but Mesa nukes anything that comes into view. Teleport is OP?!?!?! Single target movement skill??!?!?!Short invis is OP?!?!?! Enemies still can hit you with bullets and AoE?!?!?!?1

 

5)Limbo's rift walk is OP? Take one enemy into rift that can still shred him? Cause he's hello, really squishy. Single target? Takes a long time? Hello? Let me do anything except kill one by one and I'm shrekt! Op much?

 

5)Valkyr's melee is really weak so most she can do at high levels with just her ult is to claw at stuff and oh, revive people!

 

6)Saryn's fourth suffers same problem, and needs rework. Fully agree.

 

7)So he just pulls stuff and hangs people up. Nothing stopping him from being shot outside bastille and oneshotting stuff lol. He doesn't nuke anything in the map as soon as it spawns.

 

8)A nuke against corpus maybe, and nothing much else. Sure she can keep stuff on the floor, but she actually has to do something else then keep a damn button pressed to kill anything.

 

9)If you don't play trinity very carefully, yoou're gonna suck. She has to actually play and not macro with one button pressed to kill stuff.

 

10)Rhino's gold skin is paper at high level, and his Stomp has nowhere near the killing power of Peacemaker, nor spammability lol.

 

I hope you understand that only Mesa's Peacemaker needs to be changed, not nerfed to actually let you play and not have the frame play the game for you, like Ash's bladestorm. 

 

Peace out.

I typed a whole response but my wifi dc'd and im too lazy to rretype. I respect your opinions but i disagree. I thank you for being respectful and having a defense for your argument. If you have psn id like to have a discussion about this with you or anyone who can act like they have respect for other human beings. Psn id: Whoistimjones

 

 

Alright i am now ready to comment.

I would like to start by saying OP while i understand what your trying to say i feel like your logic behind your back up is all wrong mainly 3 reason(is always 3 reasons)

1.You compare frames with different power to mesa which if you know mesa she is not like other frames.

2.While your using other frame as an example to show that mesa is not OP the logic falls of when the powers of the other frame are different to one another in certain ways.

3.Your not getting the main point across because you have brought different debates into your main point.

reason why i said 1

Now the reason for point(1) is  like saying using a knife is OP because it provides you a better advantage in hand to hand fight.But in reality if you take to a gun fight the knife would likely loose.Which same logic would apply while Loki disarm take all enemy weapon away it doesn't stop them from charging at you,and almost all mission that exist in this game taking enemy weapon away doesn't guarantee mission success after all loki have fallen in many mission because of heavy gunner now has baton that does a lot more damage then one bullet from her gorgon.<this is just an example.

reason why i said 2

Now the reason behind point number(2) is when you state look at all this frame and their powers do so much more if you compare all this frames power to mesa.but Before you compare them to mesa you will also need to see that their is a fall of when you being in comparing their powers to each other.This does not make them equal as you can clearly see. and example would be you have sniper,shotgun,riffle,machine gun,and a revolver.They are all for different situation they all do their job good in that situation but when you begin to compare them to a knife it shows that they all outclass a knife in their respective situation.

Now when you compare each gun to the other it shows that they also out class each other in their own situation.does that make them OP nope.While depending on the user you can bring a sniper to fight of machine guns but you would require skills and some are easier to learn depending on the power.(a good warframe example bring saryn to fight the juggernaut behemoth.....yeah none of her skills will do damage cause they are all toxic base,now bring ember to fight him,she has better a chance cause her skills are fire and juggernaut take fire damage ,but not toxic,viral,and gas i believe.Those that make Ember OP no those that make Saryn weak yeah it does in this situation,but in one were dealing with grineer different story she would melt them)

reason why i said 3

As for my (3) remark is simple when you came in saying Can we please Leave Mesa alone,you didn't state why you just begin to compare her to other warframes to prove your point.Which was all of them can do this why should we not let Mesa have her own thing.Now this comparison brought people who were gonna debate on protecting their opinion regarding their frames.Which brought other topics regarding different frame into your post

Now instead of discussing your point the way you did i would suggest using something that can easily be defended and hard to rebuke.And also simple

 

Here is my example on Can We Please Leave Mesa Alone

While mesa excels in mission were objective is completed by killing large amount of enemy ,but in overall she begins to lack as enemy scaling begins to increases given her cap on how long her ulti is useful and when we put it in other situations we see where she also lacks.

-In survival she can only function while she is being protected and has large room to work with.

-In interception she function properly by clearing large amount of the enemies and the spawning enemy with her range(but if ur running interception correctly this will only spawn higher lvl enemy with more armor so this does not correctly show that she is OP)

-In defense she works well as she is able to kill the enemy waves as the come in to try to attack the pod but she also need protection and source of energy

-in Extermination she lacks as the fact the she is good at killing but her ult requires her to turret herself in a location and shoots enemy according to the FPS.and now all enemies exist in the same room s her ult losses value.

-In sabotage/mobile defense mission she works well since she can easily defense the console from incoming enemies,but she also begins to fall in sabotage as her ulti does not help find the cache and does not kill the mini boss.

-In Excavation while she can easily protect a excavation point you win it by drilling and that would require you to use stop using your ulti and go pick things up and bring them back to the pod your protecting which would leave your pod un-protected.(and also killing large amount of enemy will result in more spawning with higher level and variant troops)

-in capture while killing an enemy is the job,killing large amount is not and that also means she is not equip for that since once you kill the target you got pick him up and well and the ulti kind of defeat the purpose if the target goes invi or has bubble on him.including the fact that if the target is killed your require to leave your ulti that is massacring the enemies and pick the target up giving the enemy the opportunity to waste you.

-in spy killing enemy is not the purpose of the mission or causing an uproar

-in Hijack it works but the pod is always moving and your ulti is turret so standing still not the best option.

-in assassination it provides good crowed control and damage to the boss ,but if you get aggro by the boss killing it with your ulti might not be the best idea since your turret and it would depend on the boss

-in recovery yeah good luck getting energy for the ulti and you don't complete the mission by killing

-in trials damage has huge drop of and killing the enemy will only make more spawn completed the assign job and being sync is what matters here.

-in deception killing enemy is not the purpose but getting and delivering the payload

-in rescue killing enemy is not the purpose and causing an alert will not solve the mission

-in hive well it would be really hard sure you will kill large number of enemy but you would have a hard time completing the objective if you don't have in range the tumor nodes and the main node.

 

and this are my reason why i don't think she need to be nerfed and just left alone and she is fine as it is

 

Oh and my opinion on this topic is they should rework her ulti make it so you can move around make it more fun and less robotic(meaning keep the range at that but you only shoot the enemy facing your direction,kind of like a gun version of exalted blade)

You as well

[(PSN)whoistimjones]

Other frames that are "op" really arent they are used for a useful reason such as Loki is needed endgame to disarm so you dont get one shotted. Mesa on the other hand is meant to sit in draco farming xp for others thats *op* and she should be nerfed and I hope its hard

You just contradicted yourself because just like those other frames are useful in reason so is mesa. You yourself just gave a great example.

[Valiant]

Make you leave? How childish are you? Yet again you add nothing to the conversation you just try to undermine me. I wish i could "make you leave" by blocking you. Ill just ignore you from now on, internet warrior. Goodbye

 

 

Oh that's hilarious, you call me childish yet you told me to leave and decide to 'ignore' me.

 

You know precisely what I was saying. You just don't like my opinion. People have even echoed what I was saying in their own posts. I don't see why I suddenly need to repeat the same. It's nothing to do with 'undermining' you in some sly way. I've pointed out a problem in one of your arguments. You can't really compare Loki's ultimate to Mesa's ultimate. They have rather different uses and outcomes.

Edited July 20, 2015 by Naith

[(PSN)PeetSquared]

I think SOV3REIGN is on point in this thread...it isn't about endgame content that people have an issue with Mesa. She isn't OP and doesn't need a "nerf". However, those early to mid game defense nodes is an issue. When four Tenno go into a match, all trying to get kills and have fun, but the end stats show three of them getting around 20 to 30 kills, versus 100+ for the Mesa player, who sat in one spot and spammed their ult, something is wrong. Why would anyone have an issue with a rework that bring some balance back?

[Kasumi-]

Like the title says, please leave Mesa alone. Shes not the only "OP"(as a lot of you think) frame.

 

Loki takes every single enemies weapon within his range. They didnt drop them in the shower because of him, no, the were erased from existence because of him(bosses excluded). Is that not "OP"?

 

Nova can almost bring enemies to a stop as well as throw out a ball that absorbs bullets that she can controll. She can also make parkour irrelevant with her portal. Is that not "OP"?

 

Banshee can stun lock a whole room(not sure if bosses excluded). Sounds "OP" to me

 

Ash(a personal favorite) kills hopw many people in how many seconds all the while hes invincible? Invisibility? Telepoting? "OP", hello?

 

Limbo(also a personal favorite): "I think ill ente the rift today, stand in a crowd of 10-20 lvl 80 enemies, take ZERO damage, and kill them 1 by one." "Walks outside". "Well hello Mr."OP", will you be joing me again today?

 

Valkyr goes str8 invincible for at least a minute. I dont even know how to make that funny, thats how "OP" it is.

 

Saryn's a damn nuke

 

Vauban is greed mag plus frost(technically)

 

Mags a nuke(from what i read) and can keep enemies on the floor

 

Trinity's a living gameshark(do they still make/use these?) with her blessing and vampire.

 

And last butmight be least, Rhino has gold skin and his feet alter gravity.

 

So before we Nerf the 2nd-3rd(was limbo before her?) newest frame, how about we fix her predecessors from whom she got her "OP"ness from, hm?

 

Edit: I thank the people who actually have a defense and are respectful. However im done with this discussion typing wise. If anyone wants to vocalise this discussion my psn id is whoistimjones. No children or internet warriors. Mature adults only.

Antimatter Drop is more likely to come back to you and be utterly useless.

Worm Hole still costs energy and it's more convinient most of the time to not use it.

 

Sure, Banshee can stun lock. While not moving at all. Or being able to shoot.

 

Limbo can't pick up ANYTHING or carry ANYTHING in the Rift, and eats energy like the stereotypical American eats hamburgers.

 

Hysteria's damage is laughably S#&amp;&#036;, and she can't use her weapons while in it. The lack of a toggle makes it more of a hassle to use than anything.

 

Miasma falls off very fast, and even with a lower ranked Blind Rage still eats a good deal of energy if only used once. Not to mention the range isn't fantastic either. It's not bad, it's just meh.

 

Vortex is very short range compared to Pull. Thinking he's a "loot frame" is like thinking a fan would be useful on Hoth. It wouldn't be.

 

Crush can do some nice stunning but does crap damage. You saying she's OP based on Crush makes your post seem like a joke, even if that's not what you meant.

 

No argument for Trinty/Ash/Loki.

 

Iron Skin falls faster than a penny at terminal velocity in any high level mission.

 

8/11 of your arguments are bad.

[(PSN)drahkel]

If anything i think valkyr needs a nerf. Invinibility fr a minute is just rediculous. However, rhino isn't that basically aftrt enemies level 40-50 they just chew through your rhino skin within seconds. rhino is supposed to be a tank yet the none tankier warframes are more tankier then rhino

[FoxyKabam]

reading through this thread makes me want to join pubs all over and spam 4 with mesa for as long as possible with a huge supply of energy restores, stopping the effortless bloodbath every once in a while to ask if anyone else would like to shoot.

If I get an answer or anything close to a Yes, it'll be "too @(*()&#036; bad I'm OP"

 

 

in an effort to speed up the unavoidable nerf

[Lichcontract]

Why are people even thinking of nerfing Mesa? I personally think she's fine, it's the fact that the entire affinity system favors just sitting in one place killing tons of enemies is the thing that makes people spam Peacemaker. 

 

I'd say go to Dark sectors for exp but....going from 96 to 108 isn't much of a jump, not to mention the credits don't scale with how long you make it for, so people will always just do a wave 5 and bail.

[(PSN)thefndodge]

I think SOV3REIGN is on point in this thread...it isn't about endgame content that people have an issue with Mesa. She isn't OP and doesn't need a "nerf". However, those early to mid game defense nodes is an issue. When four Tenno go into a match, all trying to get kills and have fun, but the end stats show three of them getting around 20 to 30 kills, versus 100+ for the Mesa player, who sat in one spot and spammed their ult, something is wrong. Why would anyone have an issue with a rework that bring some balance back?

Well said. I have no problem if someone gets together with a group and spams peacemaker on Draco or where ever else. That's cool if that's what you want to do.

 

My problem are the those that don't relegate these tactics to farming groups, instead they join pugs and ruin it for me. 

 

Yep, I know I can leave and I already do when I happen upon a rude Mesa player, and yep I still do want to nerf the crap out of Peacemaker (actually, I think they should just completely revamp it, the nerf part is my salty QQ shining through).

 

Same thing goes with Miasma spammers too. If I wanted to stand around and do nothing, I'd just stay in my Liset and destroy brain cells by staring at the cesspool of region and trading chats.

[Ceryk]

No, I don't want her to be left alone. All of the OP powers in the game need to be toned the hell down, not just Mesa. And for the record, my most used frames these days are Mesa and Chroma. I love Mesa and seeing Peacemaker toned down or completely replaced by something less OP would make me extremely happy because I really dislike the Lazyframe playstyle. It interferes with my enjoyment of the game and there's no way to tell if someone is going to Lazyframe their way through a mission or not unless they're playing Nova since it seems like 99% of Nova Players are Slovas.

Edited July 20, 2015 by Ceryk

[unbeweavable]

or when you join a pub with a Mesa in it politely ask them to stop...

[Leavith]

In consideration to what you guys are saying you need to understand that if your point did not get across individually just cause someone else repeated it does not mean your point is clear.Just explain it again.

Now some people need to understand that Nerfing mesa is not the way to go,just like the other warframe.

In the perspective of the enemy we are suppose to be OP towards them,in the perspective of fellow tenno we are suppose to be tools that sharpen the other be able to work together and be able each to pick up task that we are viable with.

We need to as i mention not compare a Warframe to another Warframe is a senseless comparison is like comparing the usefulness of the sun to the usefulness of oxygen.We need both 2 survive.

While yes some abilities are OP,but are they OP to us or the enemy.If in no way they are limiting the player why would we bother with us asking for nerf.That DE job to state this power is not what we intended it to be so we are changing or in the situation of Greedy pull augmentation lower is utility down.

 

I understand some of you guys are here to actually discuss,then we have trolls,then we have instigators,and then we have people here just for the visit and to vent. You need to at least make sure we respect each others opinion not just trow it away.

I will rather have an idiot talking who might give me an a good idea then have a smart person who was to scared to share his cause of fear of being shame and only decided to shot down everyone else,but keep his opinion to himself.

So lets try to be constructive here.

The topic the OP started is based on the idea that he believes that Mesa needs to stop getting hate and bad reputation just because she is effective at her job(being it that she is just standing turret or that she is walking damage absorbed)Now we understand he brought other warframes into the situation ,but we player understand that this power yes they do thing unlike mesa,but does not mean they don't have weakness.

 

Then we have people saying nerf her instead of saying why they give the example of teamwork and then they add nerf her because she can work in a team and be successful.

I do appreciate those who actually share a valid reason such as how it encourage the wrong style of game play that DE itself does not enjoy.Now people will suggest just let them play the way they want,but we need to recognize that the creators have vision of the game and if they don't like the way things are going they only need a flare or spark to make the decision that enlightens them to pass the judgement.(let see if DE does not like they will fix it)i would also like to say that in the end a nerf is temporary if DE passes a nerf it might jsut be temporary to stop the negative comments,flames,and improper behavior.Until they can come up with better solution.

 

If anything we should talk about how to fix the things we don't like here(which i know some of us are,and i do apologies if have failed to do so myself)

Most understand that if we have people like post 107 going around doing things like this,will only bring more negative reaction ,but on purpose.This in itself is self-destructive behavior.And treating others wrong on purpose is never right.

Edited July 20, 2015 by Leavith

[TheBrsrkr]

Because Miasma was OP first. Also i have Limbo, hes a favorite. My personal Limbo is OP if yours isnt you might be using him wrong. Hes been nerfed twice and hes still OP in certain ways.

That aside im still not seeing why shes the only nerf or tweak target. Its one skill. Like i said, Law of retribution.

Limbo's skill set is pitiful. He looks good though.

Seriously? Go to Warframes and Abilities right now and tell me how many 'nerf/rework/change Saryn and Excalibur threads you see. Really.

She's a bigger target than Saryn because you at least have to walk with Miasma, and if you try it in a defense, there will still be something to shoot. With Peacemaker, you force the rest of the team into doing nothing WITH YOU. Also, I don't see how Peacemaker not being used in Trials makes it okay. Are you trying to say that only Trials matter as content? Are you saying that literally crouching in one spot for 30 minutes should get you the same rewards as someone who actually played? Are you saying peacemaker isn't boring as hell?

[Leavith]

Limbo's skill set is pitiful. He looks good though.

Seriously? Go to Warframes and Abilities right now and tell me how many 'nerf/rework/change Saryn and Excalibur threads you see. Really.

She's a bigger target than Saryn because you at least have to walk with Miasma, and if you try it in a defense, there will still be something to shoot. With Peacemaker, you force the rest of the team into doing nothing WITH YOU. Also, I don't see how Peacemaker not being used in Trials makes it okay. Are you trying to say that only Trials matter as content? Are you saying that literally crouching in one spot for 30 minutes should get you the same rewards as someone who actually played? Are you saying peacemaker isn't boring as hell?

What this guys said i can agree with ,okay technically just the fact about the trials.While in terminology something feeling borring is a view of the individual some actually might not find that boring.

But his idea is going the right way Peacemaker does need to be rework to change some people have mention to give it a system were you pass your courser on the enemy and then you will shoot them.I forget what is called.

Edited July 20, 2015 by Leavith

[_Azeizel]

Mesa should have her 4 changed into something else. Those frames you called op aren't op at all. Can you do a Raid vortex only? Doubt it. Yes their abilities give an advantage but that does not mean it is op. It looks like you are confusing over powered for individual strengths. Would you like every frame to not have any strengths at all.

[Nichivo]

LOL! Excalibur Ult > Mesa Ult. He makes Mesa look like she is using nerf guns.

[Leavith]

Mesa should have her 4 changed into something else. Those frames you called op aren't op at all. Can you do a Raid vortex only? Doubt it. Yes their abilities give an advantage but that does not mean it is op. It looks like you are confusing over powered for individual strengths. Would you like every frame to not have any strengths at all.

your also confusing Raid as the only form that should be taken into account. i would suggest if you don't want to give this wrong impression change your wording.

Mesa should have her 4 change,but just because a frame is not consider OP in raid does not mean is not.

And Vortex only raid yeah is possiable because the Warframe who has vortex has bastille and to run a Vortex only build you need duration so your not sacrificing any of your abilities you Bastille the spawn point of the enemy you vortex other points and you can easily keep the enemy in total CC.Maybe because your to close minded but a full team of Vauban would not have an issue in power a battery and getting it were it needs to go.

Max range bastille to keep the enemies away from people

Would not have an issue with Vortex at keeping the enemy at bay while they stand on the platform

and would not have an issue with a hijack mission of the enemies are not allowed to move or are stuck in lightning procs,magnetic procs bounce,vortex procs blast,and bastille(here is an example run max efficinacy duration over 100% and range build you can keep you hijack pod pretty protected)

So yeah if the measurement is Raid your not seeing the world of warframe.Since everyone is at different levels meaning Raid is not the only things that matters.

[RevolutionaryJusticar]

You see, Mesa's kit is broken. Peacemaker promotes afk gameplay (not so much anymore without Gmag, but still), and the rest of her kit just builds around Peacemaker. Charge up 1 and use it when you start shooting at a really tanky enemy to destroy it's testicles, while using 2 and 3 to keep yourself pretty much invulnerable. It shouldn't be like that. Saryn, Mag - they are pretty much the same, except instead of sustained room clearing, they do that instantly, but only once per cast. DE seems to be keen on removing these Press-4-to-win abilities (hence Excalibur rework). 

 

Also, do not complain about a damage dealing frame by comparing it to CC/support frames. Just freaking don't.

[----Fenrir----]

LOL! Excalibur Ult > Mesa Ult. He makes Mesa look like she is using nerf guns.

 

Excal requires you to play the game. Putting a paperweight on your mouse will not let you clear entire rooms or defense waves with Excal.

Edited July 20, 2015 by ----Fenrir----

[Nospaz]

Good thing I commented this topic right at start of it. Easier follow this. 

 

Oh can't wait what this brings up before this gets too heated up and get locked.

[_JustSomeone_]

Excal requires you to play the game. Putting a paperweight on your mouse will not let you clear entire rooms or defense waves with Excal.

mostly this^^

 

Why people try to compare mesa to excal? excalibur needs to move to kills things ...... yeah he deals high damage but he needs your help not just press click (or 1 button if console) the entire match

Edited July 20, 2015 by xDesconocidox

[Cpl_Facehugger]

They are two sides of the same coin. You can't just nerf, and you can't just buff. There has to be balance. Some stuff has to be nerfed, for example, peacemaker. However, some stuff like Ember(Not mag so much, she still has a lot of use despite greedy pull going) should be buffed as well.

 

The problem with platitudes like this is that, basically, nerfing to achieve balance ultimately does nothing but shift the meta to something else.

 

We've seen this happen. Originally, it was Excal's radial javelin. That was preferred over peacemaker in the meta. Then javelin got nerfed and peacemaker came to the fore. When peacemaker gets nerfed, we'll go to miasma bombing or bladestorm spam. When those get nerfed, we'll go to something else.

 

Trying to change the meta by nerfing specific tools in the meta doesn't do anything to address the root issue. If the problem is draco farming or the like, then you've gotta address the fact that draco is most rewarding somehow. Perhaps by buffing the rewards for other missions or nerfing draco rewards.

I mean, I could get behind making peacemaker more like exalted blade (ie Mesa can move during it and she only targets enemies in a cone in front of her) for other reasons (ie it's more fun to play with and alongside), but not "this is OP" because OP is a relative condition. Something will always be OP.

[Otis.Driftwood]

Reason why you wont see a Mesa or see anyone asking for Mesa in laws of retribution is because to clear it efficiently you dont kill the enemy.

Its all about heavy CC if you get more than 20 kills in each section you have created a situation the team loses efficiency.

 

 

Frames are only strong because we mod them that way. But you have to admit Mesa has a strong ability without adding strength mods and this is the root of Mesas issues.

 

Screaming for nerfs or buffs because of Mesas 1 ability wont fix anything it needs to be reworked.

 

Now i will add Leave Loki,Valkyr,Nova,Trinity alone.

[DzeraDragonbane]

OP? 

 

What? stop complaining yo

 

Nullifiers are there for a reason .......

[helix.hex]

doesnt mesa get weapons nerfs if she is holding a certain weapon? isnt that balanced enough?