Coptering Vs Parkour 2.0 - How Much Speed Did We Really Lose?

[RedDirtTrooper]

I'm completing missions faster because bulletjumping gives me a much wider range of motion than coptering while being nearly as fast. That lets me handle terrain better, thus letting me complete missions faster without bouncing into walls or getting caught on terrain pieces.

I can also complete void parkour rooms far more quickly than I could with coptering.

I think the most important thing you fail to mention though is that bulletjump is good with any frame and only gets better with the mods, while coptering was only really good with a handful of weapons and basically needs fury and benefits heavily from berserker. Losing a tiny bit of speed (and it is tiny if you actually bother to equip a parkour 2.0 mod instead of whining about how players shouldn't have to do that when DE even gave a whole new slot for such things) but being able to bring literally any weapon and frame combination is worth it, compared to being locked into tipedo/bo/orthos prime.

And what you fail to mention is that using any of those mods, unless you just enjoy crap warframe builds, is going to require you to unlock the new utility slot, costing either platinum or an exorbitant resource cost, and then putting 3 more forma on your warframe to be able to equip a mod in it. And you'll be doing this for every single frame you want to use with out being $&*&*#(%& slow. But, now you can totally use whatever completely useless cosmetic weapon you want, since they didn't make melee suck less, they just got rid of it's only viable use.

[VoidNomade]

And what you fail to mention is that using any of those mods, unless you just enjoy crap warframe builds, is going to require you to unlock the new utility slot, costing either platinum or an exorbitant resource cost, and then putting 3 more forma on your warframe to be able to equip a mod in it. And you'll be doing this for every single frame you want to use with out being $&*&*#(%& slow. But, now you can totally use whatever completely useless cosmetic weapon you want, since they didn't make melee suck less, they just got rid of it's only viable use.

 

The only viable use of melee was coptering?

 

Wow that really touched you that they removed coptering and it´s never coming back right?

[Arenzo4]

, they just got rid of it's only viable use.

do you only play T4 survival and defence?

[RedDirtTrooper]

it was always inferior to using guns. I'm not saying it should be, that's just the way it is. If you don't like that take it up with DE. If you are using melee you are using an inherently inferior play style. The most recent attempt to fix this was adding channeling, and it didn't.

 

So, yes, the only real use for melee was mobility. Using it for anything else is just messing around for giggles. I enjoy melee, but pretending it's actually effective just because it's popular isn't going to make it so.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

it was always inferior to using guns. I'm not saying it should be, that's just the way it is. If you don't like that take it up with DE. If you are using melee you are using an inherently inferior play style. The most recent attempt to fix this was adding channeling, and it didn't.

 

So, yes, the only real use for melee was mobility. Using it for anything else is just messing around for giggles. I enjoy melee, but pretending it's actually effective just because it's popular isn't going to make it so.

Well said.

[vashyoung]

move on people, coptering is over, we got the new thang.. flying

[Aimop95]

So, just embrace being slow? Because that's what you are saying. Ringing every ounce of speed out of this horrible system makes it a requirement. 

I've rushed missions in two minutes, now I can only rush them in maybe two minutes and 30 seconds.

 

Is 30 seconds really that bad? I'm glad coptering is gone, it was dumb and completely made any mission other than defense, survival, or interception boring because the only thing people cared about was getting to the finish line.

[RedDirtTrooper]

I've rushed missions in two minutes, now I can only rush them in maybe two minutes and 30 seconds.

 

Is 30 seconds really that bad? I'm glad coptering is gone, it was dumb and completely made any mission other than defense, survival, or interception boring because the only thing people cared about was getting to the finish line.

I would argue that people still only care about getting to the finish line, and now they do it slower. Honestly, the over all time difference doesn't bother me nearly as much as how slow and floaty the new movement system feels. I would also make the argument that bunny hopping on walls and "bullet jumping" and superman gliding are just as dumb as coptering ever was.

[(PSN)arod1alx7]

Everyone who prefers movement 1.0 over 2.0 is just a lazy player, new system separates the men from the boys

[-Dantos-]

The removal of stamina, and the need to bring certain melee just to keep up with other people, these things alone make the patch feel worth it to me.  Personally I love the new system.  I do wish they kept the traditional wall runs and vaulting, however.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Vanroe

[Blackniss]

I actually prefer the new parkour as opposed to parkour 1.0. Before, it was difficult for a player like me to keep up with someone more experienced and overall just faster mainly because with copterinf I constantly crashed into walls as was unable to complete certain jumps at times.

With parkour 2.0 I no longer have this issue, it may not be just as fast but it's definitely an easier way to get around a map. Sprint (optional I've always preferred holding the sprint button) + bullet jump + double jump + glide will get you just about anywhere. (If you remove glide and instead just look straight you'll limit your hang time meaning you can jump more often). I agree that it is a little bit more button mashing friendly but I guess that depends on the user. I for one do not have a problem with it.

I've actually been performing better in missions with the new parkour. I'm more beneficial to my team because I no longer have to worry about falling too far behind and not being able to catch up. I remember with the old system there were plenty of times where I got stuck in a hole somewhere and couldn't parkour out to save my life >_<. All in all, once you master it the new parkour system is just as good (if not better) than the old system.

[Henji]

I see people complaining about this bullS#&$ all day but in the end it still a improvement and will benefit the game in the future. 

Coptering was NEVER intended to be a gameplay mechanic, we've been playing with buggy mechanics for years, thats why people are so fed up for them to be replaced. 

I've been enjoy the new parkour alot and although I do agree some modifications would be good the mechanic is twice as fluid and thrice more manageable then the previous mechanic. 

And honestly nobody gave a single good explanation why the other parkour system is better then 2.0 other then looking less fast and less cool looking (for them).

Go pratice and figure out how to go faster with it guys seriously...

Edited August 4, 2015 by Henji

[StinkyPygmy]

Coptering was absurdly fast anyway.
Do we really need that speed back?

[Hypernaut1]

Traversing the environment is WAYYYYYY faster with parkour 2.0. Not many tiles have straightaways anyways, so copter speed is NOT what makes P2.0 faster. 

 

Parkour 2.0 is faster because in EVERY OTHER situation, i have a reliable tool to get where i want to go. i never back flip into a chasm anymore, i rarely misjudge a jump arc, i rarely get stuck on geometry. I can guarantee that i traverse through levels far more faster and more effectively with new system. My options for travel have increased 10x fold. I no longer look at the environment and think "hmm, can i sprint, copter and air melee across this?" no, now i just do it, i can go over or under, along ANY wall, up ANY structure.

 

At this point, saying P 1.0 is superior in any way almost feels like a parody. 

 

Only advantage P 1.0 had was that the wall-running animation looked more cinematic. 

[StinkyPygmy]

it was always inferior to using guns. I'm not saying it should be, that's just the way it is. If you don't like that take it up with DE. If you are using melee you are using an inherently inferior play style. The most recent attempt to fix this was adding channeling, and it didn't.

 

So, yes, the only real use for melee was mobility. Using it for anything else is just messing around for giggles. I enjoy melee, but pretending it's actually effective just because it's popular isn't going to make it so.

Really?

Because I've had zero issue using melee in pretty much any game mode you can think of.

I have a saryn melee build I take to T4 survivals and that was before regen molt.

Guns are typically better I agree, but melee has never been as useless as people claim.

Just requires a bit more effort and know how.

 

Either way, the new parkor system doesn't really hurt melee, especially considering moment actually seems effects enemy accuracy properly now so closing the distance without abilities or even bullet jump is better then ever.

[JCBeastie]

As a primary melee player I've gone from slide attacking enemy to enemy as fast as you can blink to floating about like a balloon while everything gets shot.

 

Can't even hit S#&$ in the air anymore because directional melee got nerfed.

 

DE please fix the melee game; it's hard to keep up with bullets (also wtf melee range bugs).

 

EDIT: I Really want gliding slam back. Like REEEAAAALLY.

Edited August 4, 2015 by JCBeastie

[Henji]

As a primary melee player I've gone from slide attacking enemy to enemy as fast as you can blink to floating about like a balloon while everything gets shot.

 

Can't even hit S#&$ in the air anymore because directional melee got nerfed.

 

DE please fix the melee game; it's hard to keep up with bullets (also wtf melee range bugs).

That is something I can second, the melee seems to have been affected greatly with the current build the aiming seems to be affected by the new system...hey do you use the auto aim by any chance ? Would like to compare with and without it to see how it responds to parkour 2.0.

[GhostLacuna]

coptering was never reliable enough. You could never trust that you would cover the exact same distance 100% of the time when you used it. 

 

Parkour 2.0 bring something coptering never had. Real consistent control. 

[Hypernaut1]

As a primary melee player I've gone from slide attacking enemy to enemy as fast as you can blink to floating about like a balloon while everything gets shot.

 

Can't even hit S#&$ in the air anymore because directional melee got nerfed.

 

DE please fix the melee game; it's hard to keep up with bullets (also wtf melee range bugs).

 

EDIT: I Really want gliding slam back. Like REEEAAAALLY.

There was no way you were effectively slide attacking enemy to enemy. Slide attacks are much more reliable now. The old slide attack you had to judge distance, and speed, taking into account a bunch of unnecessary factors to effectively slide attack a single enemy (especially if they weren't against a wall)- only to miss and get shot in the back while you try to recover. The new slide attack is controlled and easier to recover from if you happen to miss. You can even slide attack enemies NEAR each other, no more slide attack across the room, run away to get some distance, and slide attack again.

 

Directional melee was rash for attacking anything airborne. It was very hit or miss and the rules for success were wonky. Air melee is still a little clunky now, but at least its more reliable.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Hypernaut1

[-InV-igo95862]

Coptering was NEVER intended to be a gameplay mechanic, we've been playing with buggy mechanics for years, thats why people are so fed up for them to be replaced. 

 

 

How much of new system is actually intended?

 

Here is me doing new parkour tutorial:

 

 

Double jump? No, just use bullet jump.

Wall run? No, just use bullet jump and follow up with aim glide.

Zip lines? No, just use bullet jump.

[(PSN)arod1alx7]

How much of new system is actually intended?

 

Here is me doing new parkour tutorial:

 

 

Double jump? No, just use bullet jump.

Wall run? No, just use bullet jump and follow up with aim glide.

Zip lines? No, just use bullet jump.

#BOSS

[Laucivol]

So, slogged through this thread, biggest emphasis is that the new system is new.  Meaning it'll take time to get used to.  

 

For me, there's a bit over two years of (bad) trained memory to overcome.  I've been doing coptering for awhile now, getting used to the new rules is interesting.  That said, in my Ash [Prime now, was so very happy about that ^.^], I'm still ahead of the pack by a significant margin (including the max Rush Loki) in Capture, and - minus the pesky Mesa stealing all my kills (JK JK, team winning is good, even if I can't outrun ray-trace auto-fire glass cannons) - I've noticed that my damage has dropped by about 10%, but that's fine because before I was doing 75% of the team damage with melee (no press 4 to win, here) in T3/4.  The greater control has a bit of a cost with traversal speed, but, as it is, it's learning at this stage.

 

Frankly, although I adore Parkour 2.0, throwing up your arms in disgust while insulting your detractors is really a poor choice.  I don't care if you disagree or agree with my thoughts on it (2.0 is awesome, just a learning curve and needs some tweaks), throwing insults is really no way to convey a thought.  

 

For now, at least, ctrl+space, space works decently.

 

That said, a comment made earlier about 'slowpokes will still be slow,'  maybe, but perhaps it's because of a lack of instruction.  Everyone was a newbie at this at one point - now, we all are to an extent.  We're novices to Parkour 2.0, and that's fine.  It's uncomfortable, it's different, it's change. 

 

With such change, it's a chance to re-position momentum (hrm, is that a pun?), roll with the punches and figure out the beast instead of shirking from it.

 

Ultimately it's a minor change in speed, but movement has more important factors, too.

 

I will give the OP that the caveat as that other factors were disregraded in the initial comparison videos, however that also disregards the strengths of the new and focuses on the weakness in it.  The difficulty with this argument point is that Parkour 2.0 is a full fledged movement system, integrated with combat.  The so-called Parkour 1.0 (bugs included) was a placeholder to fill the need (gotta be able to move!) While I will agree it's a shame that DE took so very long to instantiate the new system, enough time for fling-you and coptering to become ingrained into the community's mindset, the change has been done and had to be done.

 

We don't look back at melee 1.0 longing for the simplicity of one-size-fits-all rainbow builds, though the backlash at the time was just as loud.  In time, once the wrinkles are ironed out, Parkour 2.0 will be the same. Fun thing with DE: there's quite a bit of strap in, gonna be a helluva ride.

 

TL;DR: In my opinion, Parkour 2.0's major problem is that it's different and new.  Change is hard. We're all new to Parkour 2.0. There are some flaws, but they will be ironed out.   Disregarding all but speed invalidates the argument (Parkour 2.0 is more nuanced, 1.0 was a placeholder).  Adaptation is important.

 

Addendum: 

Call me a white knight if you must, but I only put here what seems to be the case.  So far, honestly, DE has not let me down.  They've gone interesting, unexpected directions, yes.  Let me down in the quality of the game experience, and progressing gameplay/story, not so much. Even in failure moments, they've failed gracefully. Other companies over the years have burnt me, badly, but DE has proven trustworthy over the past two years.

 

One challenge to the OP:  You've been around as long as I have - baring the current apparent disappointment - have you felt betrayed or let down without 'proper' recompense from DE? 

[DangerDaddy]

you literally built this for coptering to win. you picked the fastest melee weapon and probably equipped attack speed on it, then DIDN'T equip movement speed onto parkour 2.0.

 

you've picked the FASTEST coptering vs the SLOWEST parkour 2.0. that's a fair fight like "what's higher dps, grakata unmodded or fully modded crit dread...  WHAT BOWS OP"

[HatchetHaro]

I've already retrained my muscle memory to use ctrl-space instead of shift-ctrl-scrollwheel (that's my quick melee, and it's amazing and I don't know why people don't use it). I prided myself in being a pro at coptering, able to chain copters on end without stopping at all. My favorite coptering tool was the Tipedo, obviously, because it was fast, but sometimes it was so fast I slam myself into walls. Nevertheless, I'm really good at controlling my coptering so I traverse rooms quickly and smoothly.

 

Parkour 2.0 quickly made coptering nonviable for traversing great distances; that is now the job of bulletjump and doublejump, and here's one obvious thing: it's slower and clunkier than coptering. I've already trained myself for a few days doing parkour and trying to traverse terrain quickly with the new system, and I'm certain that I've pretty-much mastered it. Here's what I find: I find myself smashing into walls and getting stuck on top of doors more than when I was coptering. Not to say that Parkour 2.0 is automatically inferior to the classic Tipedo mashing, but it makes trying to move fast even harder than it should be. Sure, I get more control over it, but I had to account for the vertical boost you get when doing the doublejump, versus only horizontal boost with coptering. There's also the issue when chaining multiple bulletjumps that if you land on an upward incline, your next bulletjump would have a higher vertical velocity, making you hit the ceiling and slowing your horizontal speed down. Of course, now that this is implemented, bulletjump+doublejump is the best way for traversing terrain now.

 

Here's the interesting part: I'm actually enjoying Parkour 2.0 more than 1.0, because firstly, I get infinite wall-scaling, so I can wallhop all day long, and secondly, "the floor is lava" is actually possible to play with the addition of wall-latching and such. It also makes juking people in Conclave that much easier and much more fun (I play cephalon capture like a coward, btw: grab the enemy cephalon, then bulletjump around and over their heads while they try desperately to catch me). What little I lost in speed, I gain a lot in versatility and fun, and really, that's pretty much the only thing that matters.

Edited August 4, 2015 by HatchetHaro

[SlapClown]

I like the new system I can get around just as fast with any frame as I  did with my pre u17 loki with 1.81 speed did