For All You Tenno Claiming That Exilus Slots Are Easy To Build And Take No Time At All - Heres Some Math

[DiabolicalHamSandwich]

Strawman much? Or are you just new and haven't been around for all the times the community has come together called DE out on the shenanigans they've tried to pull in the past?

 

Na i'm just completely optimistic~

[SquirmyBurrito]

Yea....no. I just love it when people default to "it's just my opinion" when something just doesn't add up as if it magically makes it make anymore sense. But no it's the part where people complain it's going to take too long because they want to slot all this stuff is unreasonable and stupid. The words of no S#&$ it's going to take long comes to mind. That is not a good reason in the least. Because "I want to use something that's suppose to take a bit to do and use it for everything, time should be shortened"? The fudge?

 

But same could be said about the taters....don't want to selectively choose what you use it on? Buy one! or wait for more alerts offering them. You don't just ask for the time in between them to be sped up cause "you just can't wait" 

 

I mean you could of course....but to want something shortened because your too impatient and want to complete everything you got especially when the times as is aren't even unreasonable for what it is, AND pretty sure was suppose to be selective to begin with is indeed...? I'll let you finish that one off~

 

That isn't even remotely close to what I did. I pointed out that it was my opinion because it IS my opinion.

 

If you're going to attack a position that isn't my own, why even bother quoting my post? You either have one serious reading comprehension problem or you're purposely strawmaning me.

 

The point is pretty much still moot. If I need money to buy a PSWhatever, it doesn't mean that I need it? If I need something else to get something I want, it doesn't make what I want necessary all ofa sudden. You still ddon't NEED the slot, but if you WANT it, you NEED materials. If you don't WANT the slot, it means nothing.

If your complaint is based around the initial cost, how does it apply to this situation? It costs in plat as much as a potato, you get the first one free, and you can squeeze a whole lot more power out of a frame with it, if you were using a utility mod in a regular slot before. It's a perfectly reasonable price, aside from rep. Honestly, 25k would have been enough. Otherwise it's perfectly fine.

Two Forma for a new slot is not too much. It's a new slot. New. Slot. 1 more mod. Not a big deal to you, maybe, but Rhino/Frost players in particular like Rush, and some will drop some mod for rush. I have a 3 forma Rhino, and using that slot will allow me to use Fleeting Expertise on my mixed build, if I use a matching aura. I don't have to tell you how powerful that makes me. Just because it isn't useful to EVERYONE doesn't make it useless.

 

The "PSWhatever" isn't a need unless your end goal is using your "PSWhatever" to do something else. If your end goal is getting a PSW, money is a need unless there is a method to acquire that object without using money. I never once said needing something else to get what you want transforms your initial want into a need (even though the definition of need actually covers wants too). You too need to work on your reading comprehension. If my builds are full and I want to add another mod, another slot is required (it is a need). The materials used to get it are a need unless I spend plat instead.

 

What do you mean how does it apply to this situation? I was under the impression the meat of this discussion was on the non-plat route's cost. Am I mistaken? Why are you assuming I already had a utility mod slotted? I disagree with the cost being reasonable (the non-plat cost).

 

Two forma for a new slot isn't too much in your opinion. It is a new slot that only allows certain mods to be slotted, that doesn't come with an increase in mod capacity/mod energy (whatever it is that the community is calling it at this point), and that doesn't inherently decrease the price of slotted utility mods. If it was another, no strings attached, mod slot I'd completely agree with you. But it isn't (not unless you were already using a utility mod). When did I say the slot was useless?

Edited August 5, 2015 by SquirmyBurrito

[f3llyn]

Na i'm just completely optimistic~

 

Okay. We'll talk again in 2 years when you been around at least as long as I have (at this point in time) and see if you still feel the same way.

Edited August 5, 2015 by f3llyn

[Nlim]

 

Well, something I did broke my post so I guess I'll just sum up what I had attempted to say. The common use definition of need is synonymous with want. Please refrain from insulting me. The following is the definition of need.

 

 

From Merriam-Webster: "a :  a lack of something requisite, desirable, or useful"

 

First off you don´t get to cherry pick the definiton you like if somone talks about an required need (to cite your source "require (something) because it is essential or very important.") than you are being disingenious when you conflate it with a desired need. Secondly a dictionary does not take context into account - you are just proofing my point by citing it since you are not adressing the argument but are instead playing word games. The issue isn´t what need means but what a reasonable expectation is. Some don´t think that current work for 24 auxilia slots is too much and you are derailing by trying to start a semantic discussion which has no place in this thread.

[DiabolicalHamSandwich]

That isn't even remotely close to what I did. I pointed out that it was my opinion because it IS my opinion.

 

If you're going to attack a position that isn't my own, why even bother quoting my post? You either have one serious reading comprehension problem or you're purposely strawmaning me.

 

I'm sorry so your gonna focus on that "opinions" part but ignore everything else? alrighty 

 

I haven't attacked anything. Your reasoning why it's "too long" are moot, I explained why they are moot. It's just that simple...I have yet to waver from my very 1st post to you why I stand at what I said. You on the other hand seem to be confused. Just cause you gradually drift away and get lost is not my fault~

Edited August 5, 2015 by DiabolicalHamSandwich

[TriggerHappyWhiteGuy]

I dont care that much about the other cost, I just want to BP to be reusable.

[Arenzo4]

Better means that is has more effects on how we move, effects like aim gliding, the dash effects etc, better accuracy dbuffs, more mid air directional changing capabilities etc.

 

And at the faster thing, thank you that you corrected me in one word but i think you should read again what i said. It´s not about traversing straight forward from A to Exit, it´s about actual combat. And here wins the new systems. At least that´s my opinion. I could never change directions and platforms in an actual fight this fast and this precise while looking awesome. And i was actually not bad in p1.

 

If the essence of the game is for you to move as fast as possible from point a to a further point b i think a racing game would be the better solution.

thats what you believe better to mean, some believe better=faster.Because it is subjective. But i do like Pk 2.0 better

[SquirmyBurrito]

First off you don´t get to cherry pick the definiton you like if somone talks about an required need (to cite your source "require (something) because it is essential or very important.") than you are being disingenious when you conflate it with a desired need. Secondly a dictionary does not take context into account - you are just proofing my point by citing it since you are not adressing the argument but are instead playing word games. The issue isn´t what need means but what a reasonable expectation is. Some don´t think that current work for 24 auxilia slots is too much and you are derailing by trying to start a semantic discussion which has no place in this thread.

 

That's funny, considering it is you people who are attempting to attack my use of the term by cherry picking which of the word's multiple definitions get to be applied here. Are you unaware of the little sentences that are often provided after a definition to give further insight into a word's context? If you do not want to play word games, do not attempt to bypass my argument by attacking my choice of words (it wasn't you who started it, but you have helped continue this). It was TheBrsrkr who started this "word game". Accusing me of derailing when you guys are the ones who started and helped continue this is an interesting debate tactic, but ultimately achieves nothing.

 

I'm sorry so your gonna focus on that "opinions" part but ignore everything else? alrighty 

 

I haven't attacked anything. Your reasoning why it's "too long" are moot, I explained why they are moot. It's just that simple...I have yet to waver from my very 1st post to you why I stand at what I said. You on the other hand seem to be confused. Just cause you gradually drift away and get lost is not my fault~

 

 

I didn't ignore everything else. It isn't my fault that you chose to attack a strawman instead of my actual stance.

 

Contrary to what you seem to think, declaring something moot does not make it so. Your attempts to explain why you believe what you believe have already been addressed. I too have stood unwavering since my initial declaration of my stance on this topic. Maybe you should go back and read my posts instead of skimming over them or whatever it is you're doing that is leading to all your reading comprehension problems.

Edited August 5, 2015 by SquirmyBurrito

[DiabolicalHamSandwich]

I didn't ignore everything else. It isn't my fault that you chose to attack a strawman instead of my actual stance.

 

Contrary to what you seem to think, declaring something moot does not make it so. Your attempts to explain why you believe what you believe have already been addressed. I too have stood unwavering since my initial declaration of my stance on this topic. Maybe you should go back and read my posts instead of skimming over them or whatever it is you're doing that is leading to all your reading comprehension problems.

 

Lol does continually saying that make you feel better or something? But I know it doesn't flat out make it moot, i'm not god. I have no control over other people nor do I suffer any illusions that i do (unless in game or other activities). I don't have to read anything because so far it's pretty much you being in defense for everything BUT what has been said on your "opinion" 

 

BUT as following with so far i'm guessing you will get defensive about something else, spurt out "reading comprehension" to invigorate yourself and continue on so eh..

[TheBrsrkr]

The "PSWhatever" isn't a need unless your end goal is using your "PSWhatever" to do something else. If your end goal is getting a PSW, money is a need unless there is a method to acquire that object without using money. I never once said needing something else to get what you want transforms your initial want into a need (even though the definition of need actually covers wants too). You too need to work on your reading comprehension. If my builds are full and I want to add another mod, another slot is required (it is a need). The materials used to get it are a need unless I spend plat instead.

What do you mean how does it apply to this situation? I was under the impression the meat of this discussion was on the non-plat route's cost. Am I mistaken? Why are you assuming I already had a utility mod slotted? I disagree with the cost being reasonable (the non-plat cost).

Two forma for a new slot isn't too much in your opinion. It is a new slot that only allows certain mods to be slotted, that doesn't come with an increase in mod capacity/mod energy (whatever it is that the community is calling it at this point), and that doesn't inherently decrease the price of slotted utility mods. If it was another, no strings attached, mod slot I'd completely agree with you. But it isn't (not unless you were already using a utility mod). When did I say the slot was useless?

Not sure if seriously not understanding or trolling.

The end goal, is - and stay with me here - something you don't NEED. Why? Why do you need a console? The correct answer is: you don't. It is a utility, something that promotes accessibility, makes life easier. You don't need it in any capacity to be effective, but you want it because it increases the quality of life. If your build is full and you want to put in Rush, you still WANT the slot. You could modify your build. You could skip using Rush altogether. WANT, as in optional, not NEED, as in required.

So you don't have a utility mod slotted, and you want one, but you don't want to work for it. Sure.

My opinion, your opinion, everyone's opinion - it doesn't matter because utilities are a matter of opinion too. Some think Parkour is too slow, and Rush would be good utility. Some think knockdown recovery is too slow, and Handspring would be good utility. Everyone has a different opinion on what a utility is, which is exactly why it's a WANT, and not a NEED.

"DE the OPTIONAL content you provided for me doesn't suit my tastes please nerf"

If you have a problem with the slot, DON'T GET THE SLOT. This affects literally no one but you. Your teammates aren't going to suffer. Your current build isn't any weaker. No mod is forced on you. No one is forcing you to do anything you don't want to. You said the slot isn't worth the cost. I gave a reason and example on why it is (aside from rep, you really need to cut that down DE). Is 2 slots a week really that bad? Really?

[Ashnal]

 *snip*

Sure your math is spot on ...

 

But mostly irrelevant. It's like saying that some cash shops in F2P games cost thousands of dollars if you want to buy everything.

 

You aren't intended to be able to unlock the slot for every frame right away, or even within a short amount of time. You're intended to unlock a few slots for your favorite frames easily.it only takes 5 days or so to unlock the slot for 3 frames, which covers most players frequently used frames. 

 

I can't think of a single person that equally splits their play time between all frames enough to warrant an Exilus slot on every single one. Not to mention on the off chance you do play a frame once in a  blue moon that doesn't have an Exilus slot it's not the end of the world. Missions are perfectly complete-able without them.

[SquirmyBurrito]

Lol does continually saying that make you feel better or something? But I know it doesn't flat out make it moot, i'm not god. I have no control over other people nor do I suffer any illusions that i do (unless in game or other activities). I don't have to read anything because so far it's pretty much you being in defense for everything BUT what has been said on your "opinion" 

 

BUT as following with so far i'm guessing you will get defensive about something else, spurt out "reading comprehension" to invigorate yourself and continue on so eh..

 

Continually saying what? If feeling compelled to point out when a person is strawman'ing me is considered defensive, I will make no attempt to dispute the accusation.

 

Not sure if seriously not understanding or trolling.

The end goal, is - and stay with me here - something you don't NEED. Why? Why do you need a console? The correct answer is: you don't. It is a utility, something that promotes accessibility, makes life easier. You don't need it in any capacity to be effective, but you want it because it increases the quality of life. If your build is full and you want to put in Rush, you still WANT the slot. You could modify your build. You could skip using Rush altogether. WANT, as in optional, not NEED, as in required.

So you don't have a utility mod slotted, and you want one, but you don't want to work for it. Sure.

My opinion, your opinion, everyone's opinion - it doesn't matter because utilities are a matter of opinion too. Some think Parkour is too slow, and Rush would be good utility. Some think knockdown recovery is too slow, and Handspring would be good utility. Everyone has a different opinion on what a utility is, which is exactly why it's a WANT, and not a NEED.

"DE the OPTIONAL content you provided for me doesn't suit my tastes please nerf"

If you have a problem with the slot, DON'T GET THE SLOT. This affects literally no one but you. Your teammates aren't going to suffer. Your current build isn't any weaker. No mod is forced on you. No one is forcing you to do anything you don't want to. You said the slot isn't worth the cost. I gave a reason and example on why it is (aside from rep, you really need to cut that down DE). Is 2 slots a week really that bad? Really?

 

None of the above.

I didn't say that the console was a need. However, if you decide you want to buy one, money is a need. I'm not saying the utility mod itself is a need, I'm saying the exilus slot is within the context of my original statement.

 

Never once did I say I don't want to work for it, please learn to comprehend what you read.

 

I never disputed this, please stop using my posts as a soapbox for your rants.

 

Never once did I say anything that even remotely resembles that, nor have I implied anything of the sort. You just stated that you agree that the rep cost is too high, so why are you arguing with my claim that the slot's cost is too much? Your reason and example both relied upon the assumption that I already had a utility mod slotted. Considering the previous community agreement that utility mods weren't slot competitive, I have no idea why you're assuming I do. Sure, you and your rhino build could use it. But my Rhino/RhinoPrime builds didn't bother with rush. I just used his vanguard helm (to be fair, I only use Rhino for challenge runs now). The only frame I regularly slotted Rush on was Loki/Loki Prime.

[Ashnal]

In other words, encourage pay to win.

 

Nice........

Not really. Encouraging pay to not wait, or pay to not do simaris scans.

 

I'd hardly qualify an Exilus slot as "winning"

 

And considering getting the plat through trade doesn't really line up with even the oft misused "pay to win" definition I fail to see your point.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Ashnal

[Nlim]

That's funny, considering it is you people who are attempting to attack my use of the term by cherry picking which of the word's multiple definitions get to be applied here. Are you unaware of the little sentences that are often provided after a definition to give further insight into a word's context? If you do not want to play word games, do not attempt to bypass my argument by attacking my choice of words (it wasn't you who started it, but you have helped continue this). It was TheBrsrkr who started this "word game". Accusing me of derailing when you guys are the ones who started and helped continue this is an interesting debate tactic, but ultimately achieves nothing.

 

What is the point of lying when evryone can just go a couple of pages back and read it for themselfs? He said:

"So....and I know I might lose a few of you here.... Don't use it on every frame. Use it on the ones you think need the mod."

 

obviously talking about a required need (else he would have just said the 24x calculation is reasonable) to which you responded:

"What if I'm one of those crazy players who actually likes to use all of their frames and therefore needs the extra slot so that froggerframe feels less slow?"

 

conflating it with a desired need which inevitabley lead to the derail you provoced by talking past his argument.

And now you are just doubling down on what you did by accusing the people for the derail you caused - very classy. I find it espescially hilarious that you want to claim people are bypassing your argument which you haven´t even presented yet. All you did say was "I want it" and than started argueing with people what "need" means.

 

Also please learn how to use a dicitonary - the "little sentences providing context" are specific examples. A dicitonary isn´t a oracle which can predict in which context a word is going to pop up when you look it up - those are just examples to give a feel for the word. They are not there to determine the context in which the word is going to be in.

[DiabolicalHamSandwich]

Continually saying what? If feeling compelled to point out when a person is strawman'ing me is considered defensive, I will make no attempt to dispute the accusation.

 

Knew it! that swerve.......ah well. This is going nowhere so i'll just say differences in outlook~

[Acos]

~What kind of minimum wage job do you have where you can't just easily buy these? 

[Generalsherman]

I dont care that much about the other cost, I just want to BP to be reusable.

 

Yeah the other stuff seems fine, the rep per BP is just a tad bit much for those of us with lots of frames. 100K for a reusable or 30K per BP would be a nice fit I think.

[SquirmyBurrito]

What is the point of lying when evryone can just go a couple of pages back and read it for themselfs? He said:

"So....and I know I might lose a few of you here.... Don't use it on every frame. Use it on the ones you think need the mod."

 

obviously talking about a required need (else he would have just said the 24x calculation is reasonable) to which you responded:

"What if I'm one of those crazy players who actually likes to use all of their frames and therefore needs the extra slot so that froggerframe feels less slow?"

 

conflating it with a desired need which inevitabley lead to the derail you provoced by talking past his argument.

And now you are just doubling down on what you did by accusing the people for the derail you caused - very classy. I find it espescially hilarious that you want to claim people are bypassing your argument which you haven´t even presented yet. All you did say was "I want it" and than started argueing with people what "need" means.

 

Also please learn how to use a dicitonary - the "little sentences providing context" are specific examples. A dicitonary isn´t a oracle which can predict in which context a word is going to pop up when you look it up - those are just examples to give a feel for the word. They are not there to determine the context in which the word is going to be in.

 

That statement does not specify which definition it was going with as both of the ones being argued at this time work perfectly in the context of that sentence.

 

Maybe you should continue reading. He/She replied with:

 

"Then I'll see you on Eris too.

 

"Needs" is the wrong word here. That's the thing about utility. You don't NEED, utility, you WANT it. You NEED water, but you WANT it in an easily accessible tap. You NEED light, but you WANT it at the flick of a switch. You pay for the convenience, the accessibility, not the outcome. So if you WANT faster Parkour or some other thing on all your frames, be prepared to earn it. "

 

Which is what started this entire "word game". Their post, not mine.

 

A desired need is still a need. I didn't derail this topic, their (and your continued) attempts to undermine what I'm saying by trying to argue the validity of my word choice is what has caused this to go off topic.

 

I know full well how to use a dictionary, I don't need coaching from one such as yourself who has routinely shown that they are willing to argue definitions when they don't even fully understand said definitions. As previously stated both definitions work with that sentence, and nothing stated within invalidates the use of either. None of the mud you have attempted to fling at me has stuck, its time to move on.

 

Now, do you have an actual counterargument, or are you going to continue to argue word definitions with me when I have already clearly established that my use of the word is both correct in general and in the context of this conversation specifically.

Edited August 5, 2015 by SquirmyBurrito

[Evanescent]

Ay.

 

 

Do you play with all 23 everyday? Hmmm?

 

Why do you need to have it on all 23 right now?

[tennoninjahunter]

it is meant to be "endgame" and for fully matured players, it's not meant for anyone who cant afford 2 forma and stuff. 1 extra slot is 1 extra slot, so just cover ur eyes when U're going into arsenal if u cant afford to build it or buy it, in PvE it wont matter "much" anyways, if u're gonna get killed by creeps without it, u're gonna die either way, it's not gonna make u last 10more min. in survival.

[Hypernaut1]

Ay.

 

 

Do you play with all 23 everyday? Hmmm?

 

Why do you need to have it on all 23 right now?

Im not even grinding them and i have it on 3 frames already. The average player wont need it on more than 10 or so frames that they play often. 

 

These same people with 23+ frames are probably the same people who love to brag about frames collecting dust, and what frames are trash, etc.

[EetNotErn]

OH, what am I ever going to do. I posted one meme, that obviously means I don't give a crap about facts.

 

Hypocrite. .-.

 

 

Posting memes is all you have since it only takes little thought to cut and paste images from the net. I notice that you couldn't even dispute my corrections to those calculations. So you want to take a crack at those calculations or what?

[TheBrsrkr]

That statement does not specify which definition it was going with as both of the ones being argued at this time work perfectly in the context of that sentence.

Maybe you should continue reading. He/She replied with:

"Then I'll see you on Eris too.

"Needs" is the wrong word here. That's the thing about utility. You don't NEED, utility, you WANT it. You NEED water, but you WANT it in an easily accessible tap. You NEED light, but you WANT it at the flick of a switch. You pay for the convenience, the accessibility, not the outcome. So if you WANT faster Parkour or some other thing on all your frames, be prepared to earn it. "

Which is what started this entire "word game". Their post, not mine.

A desired need is still a need. I didn't derail this topic, their (and your continued) attempts to undermine what I'm saying by trying to argue the validity of my word choice is what has caused this to go off topic.

I know full well how to use a dictionary, I don't need coaching from one such as yourself who has routinely shown that they are willing to argue definitions when they don't even fully understand said definitions. As previously stated both definitions work with that sentence, and nothing stated within invalidates the use of either. None of the mud you have attempted to fling at me has stuck, its time to move on.

Now, do you have an actual counterargument, or are you going to continue to argue word definitions with me when I have already clearly established that my use of the word is both correct in general and in the context of this conversation specifically.

Now you're just trolling.. Why would I highlight the difference REPEATEDLY if they meant the same thing in context? The only person playing word games here is you. Since you want to avoid giving a straight answer, I'll clarify:

WANT, in this context, means, quite simply, that it is meant to ease access to a certain commodity, that is not required for function, but rather for the augmentation of the function itself.

NEED, in this context, is something that is required for competent function of a system. As in, if you don't have it, your functions will be severely limited in some way.

A desired need is still a need, but you do not need the Exilus slot. The mods can be equipped in regular slots. The slot does not decrease effectiveness in any way. You want the slot so that you can either have access to more slots, in the case of those who used utility mods, or to add extra utility without compromising builds, in the case of those that didn't.

[SquirmyBurrito]

Now you're just trolling.. Why would I highlight the difference REPEATEDLY if they meant the same thing in context? The only person playing word games here is you. Since you want to avoid giving a straight answer, I'll clarify:

WANT, in this context, means, quite simply, that it is meant to ease access to a certain commodity, that is not required for function, but rather for the augmentation of the function itself.

NEED, in this context, is something that is required for competent function of a system. As in, if you don't have it, your functions will be severely limited in some way.

A desired need is still a need, but you do not need the Exilus slot. The mods can be equipped in regular slots. The slot does not decrease effectiveness in any way. You want the slot so that you can either have access to more slots, in the case of those who used utility mods, or to add extra utility without compromising builds, in the case of those that didn't.

 

I'm not trolling. You clarifying which definition you were using after the fact does not change anything regarding when I originally responded. They do mean the same thing in that context. I'm not playing a word game. I've been incredibly blunt with my answers. You challenged my use of the word need, since then I have provided definitions from two sources and both back my usage of the term. The fact that this has continued since then only goes to show just how stubborn some people can be when they don't want to admit that someone is right. My usage was correct and valid in the context of the initial conversation. No amount of insults, strawmans, etc is going to change that.

[TheBrsrkr]

I'm not trolling. You clarifying which definition you were using after the fact does not change anything regarding when I originally responded. They do mean the same thing in that context. I'm not playing a word game. I've been incredibly blunt with my answers. You challenged my use of the word need, since then I have provided definitions from two sources and both back my usage of the term. The fact that this has continued since then only goes to show just how stubborn some people can be when they don't want to admit that someone is right. My usage was correct and valid in the context of the initial conversation. No amount of insults, strawmans, etc is going to change that.

So giving context doesn't affect the context at all?

"I'm not trolling"

Right.