If Saryn Is Being Reworked Because Of Unhealthy 4 Spam, Why Does Mesa Exist.

[LordOfScrugging]

DE said they will rework Saryn but no one mention her 4th being remove or turn her into Melee frame...Source please?

 

also yes if Saryn's getting rework in term of annoying 4th ability then Mesa will be the same fate in no time (im hoping she take out her revolver and let you shoot everything with it manually but with little lock on targets)

curve the bullets?

[Skaleek]

Listen, reworks are one thing, but this thread blatantly says if saryn's 4 is getting reworked due to its mechanics, why does peacemaker exist? My response is to that, I am not against changing skills and reworking them in the least.

 

My response was also to that guy that said "its a co op game" is not an argument to be made against nerfs. It certainly is, depending on the situation.

[Kuestenjung]

DE said they will rework Saryn but no one mention her 4th being remove or turn her into Melee frame...Source please?

 

also yes if Saryn's getting rework in term of annoying 4th ability then Mesa will be the same fate in no time (im hoping she take out her revolver and let you shoot everything with it manually but with little lock on targets)

 

Mesa works completly different then Saryn, when will people finally learn the difference? Nuking a room and standing in one spot killing enemy after enemy are 2 completly different things.

And like most people here already said, noone knows what the rework/revisit will do, probably even DE don´t knows it right now.

[Tesseract7777]

Listen, reworks are one thing, but this thread blatantly says if saryn's 4 is getting reworked due to its mechanics, why does peacemaker exist? My response is to that, I am not against changing skills and reworking them in the least.

 

My response was also to that guy that said "its a co op game" is not an argument to be made against nerfs. It certainly is, depending on the situation.

 

I think the big problem here is the word "nerf" itself. That word is thrown around a lot on the forums, and I think a lot of people have different meanings when they use it. 

[Skaleek]

You really have to ask yourself, why do I want this nerfed? Why does this need to be changed? Typically then you'll discover its not the frame that needs changing, but fundamental gameplay.

 

Peacemaker is already bottlenecked by nullifiers in the void. You need team mates to take down those nullifiers, or you just sit in peacemaker and die.

 

People dont like spamming skills but in a game where you sit at an objective for 20 rounds just to get a slim shot at that rotation C item, people are going to get lazy, people are going to look for that one click skill spam, because they dont want to manually kill each npc one by one. Taking the skill away will never be the solution, because they will find another way. It's a fundamental problem within warframes gameplay itself, but i digress, and dont want to derail the thread.

 

Either way, hurting mesa or saryn isnt the answer, it solves nothing. Reworks? Great, if you want, but if you make the skill "difficult" to use it becomes oberon reckoning spam, or mag shield polarize spam, or banshee soundquake spam, etc, etc.

Edited August 25, 2015 by Skaleek

[vaugahn]

Oh you want balance. Well, newsflash, there will never be a perfect balance, 

 

I assume you don't wear seatbelts then?

 

Balance matters in co op to prevent there from being false choices. Warframe is currently littered with false choices, we know them as mastery fodder. Balance in a PvE game isn't about how fast you kill enemies, it's about similar choices being equally attractive to a player. Make sure to pay extra attention to that sentence: your argument centers around the idea that since we're all on the same side it doesn't matter how strong we are, and while that's actually correct is has very little to do with the type of game balance we're seeing here.

 

In order to balance a game, you have to buff and nerf things. You cannot do just one or the other. Well, you can, it's just impractical. Buffs and nerfs are just two ways to reach a point, and we always try to take the shortest path to said point. 

 

Imagine there are two frames: Ash and Frost. Ash is really weak but can hit hard, Frost is really tough but can't deal much damage. For all intents and purposes, that's balanced. Neither of those two frames are really better than the other one. A well prepared team would have both those frames in it. 

 

Now imagine a new frame is released. Volt, let's say. Volt is really tough and can hit hard. Well prepared teams are all Volts, because Ash and Frost are now false choices. Outside of novelty, there's no reason to ever choose either of those frames any more, because Volt is just straight up better.

 

We could go your route, and buff up Ash and Frost. We buff them up to a point where Volt is in the middle with a mix of attack and defense, and the game is balanced again. Of course, now we're way stronger than our enemies, so we buff them up too and everything is great.

 

We could also just nerf Volt down to a point where he's in between Ash and Frost with a mix of attack and defense, and now the game is balanced again. 

 

See what's going on there? Both paths arrive at the same place, one just takes longer. No matter how we get there, Volt will always end up as a middle ground between the two because that's what keeps things the most balanced. 

 

Now, on the topic of Peacemaker, I actually don't think it needs a nerf. It really just needs a rework. The problem with it isn't that it's too strong or too weak (and it definitely falls in the latter category, damage powers do not scale well), it's that it literally plays the game for you.

[--.B.--HARDCOREDAVE-]

Nerf train again? They could have just reworked her 1st and 3rd abilty and made it better :/ Back to playing MKX then lol.

[MasterNalgas]

not for game balance, and long term practicality.

easymode button mashing through low Level Missions, and having two Abilities which do nothing useful in high Level ones (once Enemies have mid 5 digit EHP, your bland AoE Blast is not very useful), makes some pretty big problems.

distracting Enemies and Viral debuffing them is Level independent and therefore is always useful (higher Level Enemies being more difficult to use against, but the Ability is equally as useful), but the other two are completely Level locked as to whether they're useful at all or not.

i mean, if 'fine' is defined as what about equates to AFKFarming strategies, then i don't want fine. i want the opposite of fine. the opposite of fine creates a Video Game then. while fine... creates a static Gameplay where you're interacting as little as possible.

 

And you think nerfing her ulti is the way to go? I was just checking if that is what you are suggesting. Because if that is the case, i can tell you that it wont work, people will just find another 4 button to press and forget that saryn ever existed like what happen to mag several times. People don't seem to understand after 2 years that nerfing is not the way forward, and it's a shame.

 

About when you say: "easymode button mashing through low level missions". You forgot and important part, that those missions are low level. If you are going with a full on miasma build to those levels and expect challenge, then you're mad. But that's the same with other frames not just saryn.

 

If you think that AFKfarming strategies are not "fine". Then you should blame the grind wall that people have to go through instead of the "tools" that people use. Because if we go that route mind aswell nerf all the frames. AFKfarming strategies is the solution people find for the problems of the game, that the devs failed to solve in other ways. Game balance is a fallacy created to justify their fail to resolve core issues with the game, the grind system as it is does not allow for any balance. That's one of the main reasons why they want to change the solar map completely, they know the system as it is does not work (no long term practicality).

 

Now changing those systems deeply enrooted in the game, is hard work, especially after all these time. So there is always the easy way, nerfing! The devs can keep doing this (especially if the community is backing them up), the problem is that after a while the nerfing starts to be the rule and not the exception, and people get tired of nothing being constant in the game, stuff they worked so hard to achieve no longer have significance on the next patch. And that hurts the game.

I'm not saying that the devs don't want to go through the hard work or that they don't acknowledge the problem, what i'm saying is that they wont do anything so great without the community support, so they resort to what the community always seems to support: Nerfing!

 

Sorry for the long post, but had to take this out of my chest. Sometimes this community can be more poisonous than saryn herself. So I hope you understood what i meant and don't hate me for it. :)  

[Skaleek]

Now, on the topic of Peacemaker, I actually don't think it needs a nerf. It really just needs a rework. The problem with it isn't that it's too strong or too weak (and it definitely falls in the latter category, damage powers do not scale well), it's that it literally plays the game for you.

I understand that if one ability or weapon is grossly more powerful that something else, it throws the games balance out of whack because then you have to take said weapon to compete. I get that. I am not of the opinion Mesa or Saryn are required to compete.

 

I definitely see where you're coming from, but how is peacemaker different from 90% of the other skills in warframe? Does soundquake, avalanche, reckoning, shield polarize, and all the other skills that are non targetted aoe's not suffer from the exact same problem? Is it really problems with the warframe, or is it that people feel the need to fall back on that when they are no longer engaged in the gameplay?

 

How often do you see a player use peacemaker in an exterminate? Maybe when things get hairy, but i'd say rarely if ever. Warframe is a game of false choices, absolutely, i couldnt agree with you more, but do you think you are adding more choice by removing one's ability to room clear with any given frame? Does balancing that one frames power really make a difference? Wouldnt you rather that scalpel (or hammer) that Scott uses go towards the gameplay itself, rather then the symptoms of the problem, power spam?

 

Once again, i take no issue with reworks, and I understand what you mean when you talk about balance and the shortest path, if mesa is a statistical outlier its easier to nerf one then buff many. I get it, but at the end of the day we are so powerful and out of whack that it doesnt solve anything to nerf frames. As for a rework, rework it if you want but that problem im talking about still remains, people will take the easiest path to get what they want, just like your example of easiest path to balance.

 

EDIT: Also just to throw this in here, sometimes that long method of buffing and powercreeping is worth it as it doesnt alienate your playerbase. It's called a win-win, where everyone is given buffs to the point of it almost being status quo from before, but the players are placated.

Edited August 25, 2015 by Skaleek

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

Oh look, the daily mesa thread again...

None said that saryn is gonna get reworked, if she is, probably about pbr, also, saryn 4 is pretty much far more potent than mesa.

Yes, mesa has longer range than her,but she cant gain energy while in peacemaker, saryn can receive energy because miasma

doesnt lock her like peacemaker. The only reason why most hate mesa because of afk farming, saryn is almost the same,

just put energypads every minute and set some macro to spam her 4....profit...

Edited August 25, 2015 by (PS4)ATreidezz

[Tesseract7777]

 

EDIT: Also just to throw this in here, sometimes that long method of buffing and powercreeping is worth it as it doesnt alienate your playerbase. It's called a win-win, where everyone is given buffs to the point of it almost being status quo from before, but the players are placated.

 

The bigger problem here is enemy scaling I think. That needs to be balanced more than the warframes themselves. If the enemy scaling was better, people might not even be as worried about nerfing/buffing/reworking all the frames. 

[vaugahn]

I definitely see where you're coming from, but how is peacemaker different from 90% of the other skills in warframe? Does soundquake, avalanche, reckoning, shield polarize, and all the other skills that are non targetted aoe's not suffer from the exact same problem? Is it really problems with the warframe, or is it that people feel the need to fall back on that when they are no longer engaged in the gameplay?

 

Peacemaker is different from 90% of skills because it's one of 4 skills in the game that can lock you out of your controls for an extended period of time. That's not really debatable, even AoE nukes don't lock you in place for a minute and a half while constantly dealing damage.

 

As for the endless buffing not being bad, just look at Maple Story to see how that route turns out.

Edited August 25, 2015 by vaugahn

[Nox174]

Saryns rework is mostly because of her poor kit in general, though I do believe Mesa will get the smackdown it may take time as the rest of her kit is ok.

[Skaleek]

Peacemaker is different from 90% of skills because it's one of 4 skills in the game that can lock you out of your controls for an extended period of time. That's not really debatable, even AoE nukes don't lock you in place for a minute and a half while constantly dealing damage.

 

That's a fair statement, it does lock you out of control of your character (kindof) however ill make the argument sound quake is exactly the same, but i havent seen a single complaint about it in a loooong time. As for maplestory, i didnt say you always buff everything to win-win, i said sometimes its better then alienating your playerbase. Also i think maplestory makes a lot of $$$ so, depends on your definition of success. Haven't played the game myself.

 

I think what i'm getting at is we're in this constant cycle of rework, buff, nerf, blah blah. I think i would prefer that energy be directed towards maybe better AI, and a rework of some of the fundamental gameplay mechanics that promote using skills like peacemaker.

Edited August 25, 2015 by Skaleek

[FireWoven]

Oh look, the daily mesa thread again...

None said that saryn is gonna get reworked, if she is, probably about pbr, also, saryn 4 is pretty much far more potent than mesa.

Yes, mesa has longer range than her,but she cant gain energy while in peacemaker, saryn can receive energy because miasma

doesnt lock her like peacemaker. The only reason why most hate mesa because of afk farming, saryn is almost the same,

just put energypads every minute and set some macro to spam her 4....profit...

Yes, they did announce a Saryn rework. Actually quite explicitly.

 

As for those saying "it makes no sense for Saryn to be a melee/tank frame, she was actually intended to be just that. Originally that was to be her function, before they'd actually figured out how to make a good melee frame. She just doesn't hold up to reworked excal or Valkyr for that function. Which is a problem.

 

Now I'm not saying it's how they'll do this. It's highly possible she'll be made into more of a blast frame or something of the sort, we don't know. But it's not like the precedent isn't there.

 

Also, Mesa is a newer frame, and has been broken/boring/flawed/whatever word you'd put here for much less time. So they'll probably try and fix old stuff first.

Edited August 25, 2015 by FireWoven

[vaugahn]

That's a fair statement, it doesnt lock you out of control of your character (kindof) however ill make the argument sound quake is exactly the same. As for maplestory, i didnt say you always buff everything to win-win, i said sometimes its better then alienating your playerbase. Also i think maplestory makes a lot of $$$ so, depends on your definition of success. Haven't played the game myself.

 

Sound Quake, Bladestorm, and Undertow all suffer from the same problem. My criticisms apply equally to all of them. DE expressed an interest in getting rid of "homer's drinking bird" gameplay, they specifically mentioned player interaction as a important criteria in Parkour 2.0, and they created Exalted Blade for Excalibur. They're obviously interested in removing some of the more mindless aspects of the game, and those skills are about as mindless as they come considering they're basically cutscenes. 

 

Maple Story just got ridiculous with all the buffing. Sometimes it's really just more convenient to nerf things. I remember an RPG I played ages ago that had the same problem, it got so bad that low damage was counted in triple digits. They ended up knocking a zero off everything to try and control things.

Edited August 25, 2015 by vaugahn

[Skaleek]

Sound Quake, Bladestorm, and Undertow all suffer from the same problem. My criticisms apply equally to all of them. DE expressed an interest in getting rid of "homer's drinking bird" gameplay, they specifically mentioned player interaction as a important criteria in Parkour 2.0, and they created Exalted Blade for Excalibur. They're obviously interested in removing some of the more mindless aspects of the game, and those skills are about as mindless as they come considering they're basically cutscenes. 

 

Agreed, although i do love the animation of bladestorm. The novelty of that skill alone always puts a smile on my face. Finally, these arent requests for nerfs but for reworks, and my original arguments were focused around the idea that asking for nerfs is silly in a Co-op game. Which i still stand by. Never said nerfs aren't warranted or needed, but asking for them helps no one.

[vaugahn]

Agreed, although i do love the animation of bladestorm. The novelty of that skill alone always puts a smile on my face. Finally, these arent requests for nerfs but for reworks, and my original arguments were focused around the idea that asking for nerfs is silly in a Co-op game. Which i still stand by. Never said nerfs aren't warranted or needed, but asking for them helps no one.

 

It depends on the situation. Nerfs and buffs are both just a means to an end, neither are inherently bad or good. If a nerf is what works best, then a nerf should happen. If a buff is what works best, then a buff should happen. Asking for bad nerfs doesn't help anyone, but the same could be said of asking for bad buffs. 

 

Very few abilities need a straight nerf or buff, most of the problematic abilities are problematic by nature and not by their stats. Weapons are where the nerfing and buffing needs to happen. There are dozens of weapons in dire need of massive buffs, and many more in need of nerfs. We need massive rebalancing there, right now we're all over the place. MR8 lab weapons being worse than MR4 market weapons sucks, and one weapon absolutely dominating its category in every way is just as bad.

[Skaleek]

I wont even touch weapon balance because its a mess. There's no doubt. At this point we're into semantics though and I think I've said what i can on the topic. Thanks for approaching the rest of our little debate with patience and maturity.

[(XBOX)G R A V O C]

If they nerf or even worse remove her 4, i want Mesa's 4 to be nerfed/removed as well. Whenever a Mesa is in a game the ONLY skill they use is her 4 and is extremely more potent and useful.

1.) Mesa's do use their other abilities. You just don't see it because they aren't as visual/effecting as Peacemaker.

2,) Mesa's other abilities are beast.

Ballistic Battery - Charges up damage to be released in a massive blow on detonation. It takes literally half a second of Peacemakering to charge ballistic battery. Whenever a Bombard or healing Ancient appears (at very high levels), releasing a quick headshot ballistic battery is a good way to drop 100,000 on them really quick.

Shooting Gallery - Jams weapons and stuns melee enemies. While this isn't as useful since of Staggering augment for Shattershield, and also gets negatively effected (range) by maximizing Peacemaker, it still makes a great addition for its small energy consumption.

Shatter Shield - The unsung hero of pro 5 forma Mesa's. Absorbs 95% of ballistic damage, and can cause a heavy stun effect on enemies with the incorporation of the Staggering Shield ability augment mod. This ability takes the place of Shooting Gallery with its heavy stun effect as well. 5 forma Mesa's can have a Shatter Sheild for up to 49-51 seconds, AND is insanely cheap to activate.

Peacemaker - Well, we all know what it does :).

Any Mesa who doesn't use their other abilities must not know how to use Mesa very well. My 5 forma Mesa can go into very long T4 missions. Rejuvination aura + guardian sentinel + infinite Staggering Shatter sheild = immortal. Ballistic Battery + Dread or Vaykor Marelok = shut down heavies and ancients. Soma // BRAKK or Mara Detron = shut down nullifiers in a second.

So please don't tell me Mesa's don't use their other abilities

[Skaleek]

Shatter shield is my favourite ability of Mesas. I'm grateful all hate is focused upon peacemaker because i actually think shatter shield is probably more powerful.

[(XBOX)G R A V O C]

Shatter shield is my favourite ability of Mesas. I'm grateful all hate is focused upon peacemaker because i actually think shatter shield is probably more powerful.

Shhh - They might catch on.

[taiiat]

And you think nerfing her ulti is the way to go?

no, making it into a useful Ability that doesn't rely on abusing it against low Level Enemies is the way to go.

so that way it's useful in Gameplay, not useful for avoiding Gameplay.

but feel free to be butthurt and call everything a nerf when others are trying to make playing Warframe an interactive experience, rather than a non-interactive experience.

kind've like what Video Games are supposed to be. if it's non-interactive, might as well be a movie.

fun fact, AFKFarming strategies is not because of anything, it's just the path of least resistance.

people have been using them in Warframe since forever. because they make it the easiest to do, so Players do that.

you can fill your daily limit of Syndicate Points by playing a single Mission. people still use AFKFarming strategies because it's easier to do that than to just play the game.

blah blah, Et Cetera Et Cetera.

there could be no grinding in any means whatsoever in Warframe - Players would still do the same things. because it's the path of least resistance.

sorry, i just had to get this off my chest. sometimes people in this Community can be more naive than a fetus.

but how is peacemaker different from 90% of the other skills in warframe? Does soundquake, avalanche, reckoning, shield polarize, and all the other skills that are non targetted aoe's not suffer from the exact same problem?

some of them do, yes.

Peacemaker has only one purpose - to Kill everything without any user input or effort. it does absolutely nothing else.

some of the others you mentioned, also fall into this boat to some degree.

- Shield Polarize is definitely an easymode Ability when Shields are around. this ultimately should be adjusted as well, being useful offensively, but not trivializing your Gameplay - as well as making it more useful Defensively (which i have some half finished write ups for).

- Avalanche Kills lighter Enemies very proficiently. it can unfortunately, serve as an AoE Blast to spam. this is why i still don't like it that much. it has cool Utility Effects, but those are often overshadowed by most of the affected Enemies being already dead from it's own Damage.

- Reckoning can be an AoE Blast, but honestly, is better used with OverExtended for insane amounts of CC. it has incredibly powerful CC capability, but also does Damage.

- Soundquake is terrible for just nuking Enemies. it's CC, and that's pretty much all it does. however, if you use Sonar a whole bunch (very high Energy Cost) and/or use Resonance and such to get a lot of Sonar Dots out there, you CAN boost Sound Quake to use it for Damage. this is fine, as it's interactive to get that result, rather than non-interactive. the Ability doesn't do it for you, you decided you wanted to invest your time and Energy to clear a room with Sonar and Sound Quake together. it's also Synergy, which is something we have not that much of.

Soundquake locking you in place isn't so fun, but... i'll apprehensively say it's not too horrible as it stands...

and then there's things like World on Fire, Miasma, Bladestorm, Prism, Excalibur.... - yes, those are also in this boat. we have some Warframes that do similar things, such as Equinox being able to create an AoE Blast - but it has much more to it, you build up to it, you choose when to use it based on what you've been doing, Et Cetera. a select few others fill this boat, where Abilities which Kill or Damage Enemies in an Area aren't just AoE Death, but have some capability for that, while still providing other useful effects and also still requiring the Player to be interactive to achieve that capability.

also, thank you kindly for understanding path of least resistance, and actually recognizing it's existence.

(don't think you're safe with Shatter Shield, it's totally an easymode Defensive Ability that you just mash all of the time because there's no reason to not have it on all of the time, it and some other Abilities like it are in a similar boat of non-interactive Abilities.)

As for those saying "it makes no sense for Saryn to be a melee/tank frame, she was actually intended to be just that. Originally that was to be her function, before they'd actually figured out how to make a good melee frame.

actually, when those Abilities were created, the game that they were in worked very well for that purpose.

Contagion added Armor Ignoring Damage to your Melee (which was the only type of Damage that was relevant), so it was a good risk/reward for Melee.

the only missing part was self Healing. but aside from that, was a very functional Melee Warframe at the time.

yes, we have much better now. and Abilities like Contagion are useless now. but they weren't when they were originally designed.

wait, did you just say you expect Saryn to be a 'Blast Warframe'?

uhh. a big portion of why i like Saryn so much in the first place is due to the Poison/infection theme. i don't see any reason why this Warframe would or should suddenly change themes.

Mesa's do use their other abilities.

Ballistic Battery - Charges up damage to be released in a massive blow on detonation. It takes literally half a second of Peacemakering to charge ballistic battery. Whenever a Bombard or healing Ancient appears (at very high levels), releasing a quick headshot ballistic battery is a good way to drop 100,000 on them really quick.

some do use other Abilities, some may very well use Shooting Gallery or Ballistic Battery. the ones that anyone is complaining about would be the ones that only use Peacemaker, may use Shatter Shield to make themself nigh invulnerable while using Peacemaker.

Players that use Mesa for more than one or two Abilities won't be abusing Peacemaker every chance they get.

- - - - -

which sounds nice on paper, but ofcourse, Ballistic Battery is only great if you have a Crit Weapon in your hands. if not, then it doesn't really do much.

for your Vaykor Marelok, Ballistic Battery with Transient Fortitude and Intensify (2960, i rounded to 3000 Damage), makes your next shot only deal ~3.2x the Damage it would normally.

which certainly helps, but it's not exactly impressive.

meanwhile, a Soma, will deal ~48x the Damage in a Shot with the same Ballistic Battery. without even counting Weakpoint Crits. which if you do, is ~91x the Damage.

Ballistic Battery can be cool, but it's far too reliant on Crit Weapons to be truly great. which is odd since Mesa's signature Weapon is shown as a Vasto, which doesn't Crit.

in order for it to be truly great, it needs to benefit non Crit Weapons about the same as Crit ones. ultimately Crit Weapons will always benefit more, but the disparity between them should be much closer than it is now.

if i don't have a Crit gun on me, i feel like it's pointless to even cast Ballistic Battery. because it isn't worth my time, it doesn't do enough otherwise.

it also should add Punch-Through to your Weapon, and shouldn't be a single shot (10 seconds unmodifiable of bonus Damage or something would make it more viable for a wider variety of Weapons). that would make it fair for every Weapon. 'good enough for now'.

- - - - -

however ultimately, as far as i'm concerned, turning off Ballistic Battery should 'quickdraw' (very fast Weapon Switch time, much, much faster than it is normally. Gunslinger.)a Regulator. using Ballistic Battery again wouldn't cancel your bonus like it does now, it would just Holster it so you can save it for later.

the Regulator would fire a precision infinite Punch-Through shot, and also stagger Enemies that were near the trajectory. so like, Enemies within 5m of anywhere between the Regulator and the face of your Enemy that you shot, would Stagger.

you'd get more than one Shot. we could go with the traditional 6 for Revolvers in most Calibers.

the Damage that you stored up would be the amount of base Damage the Weapon has(increase it's unmodded Damage value to 2000 over it's 1600 current). 100% Crit Chance. the Crit Chance emphasizes you to aim for Weakpoints to deal a lot of Damage.

Edited August 25, 2015 by taiiat

[Skaleek]

it also should add Punch-Through to your Weapon, and shouldn't be a single shot (10 seconds unmodifiable of bonus Damage or something would make it more viable for a wider variety of Weapons). that would make it fair for every Weapon. 'good enough for now'.

- - - - -

however ultimately, as far as i'm concerned, turning off Ballistic Battery should 'quickdraw' (very fast Weapon Switch time, much, much faster than it is normally. Gunslinger.)a Regulator. using Ballistic Battery again wouldn't cancel your bonus like it does now, it would just Holster it so you can save it for later.

the Regulator would fire a precision infinite Punch-Through shot, and also stagger Enemies that were near the trajectory. so like, Enemies within 5m of anywhere between the Regulator and the face of your Enemy that you shot, would Stagger.

you'd get more than one Shot. we could go with the traditional 6 for Revolvers in most Calibers.

the Damage that you stored up would be the amount of base Damage the Weapon has(increase it's unmodded Damage value to 2000 over it's 1600 current). 100% Crit Chance. the Crit Chance emphasizes you to aim for Weakpoints to deal a lot of Damage.

 

I really like this idea for ballistic battery.

[Deejudanne]

So much complains about it remember that mesa eats tons of energy even with end game mods at max rank