De, Seriously Get Rid Of Your Energy System..it's Dull

[Pixues]

Another thread about this, because gameplay is extremely flat.

It's spam everywhere you go. 

 

The main example of how bad this system is can be found in most of the Ultis/ubers.

Kill a group, collect the orbs. Find next group, repeat. 

 

 

The game already is lacking depth, the energy system which allows spam just adds to it.

It is dull, it's just dull. 

 

You seem to have created a third person dungeon crawler. It's a bit different, but it's not the re-invention of the wheel. Cooldowns are better, it demands the tinniest bit of using strategy. 

Gameplay is flat. Do something about it. You must be aware of it too.

 

 

Obligatory suggestion:

 

Cooldown system. Kills (or damage) by weapon and melee reduce cooldown. (i think it would create some synergy between gun/melee play and the use of abilities).

 

 

Now a cooldown system doesn't need explaining. The start of a cooldown should be depending on the specific ability. 

For some it starts as the ability is cast. For some it start when the ability and its effects have ended.

 

Change Flow into a flat Cooldown reduction for all abilities. ( percentage based)

Change Streamline into an increased reduction gain upon killing (or damaging) something. 

 

Cooldowns are better, that is why the majority of games use it. DE, please join them.......again 

Edited May 26, 2013 by Pixues

[Venarge]

This was suggested a thousand times and always been rejected. So no thanks.

[homiedudemanguy]

all simply to get the gameplay faster into the harder difficulty.

i see no problem with that.

energy system is fine.

[neKroMancer]

So it will be ME3MP with space ninja skin. While the game is good, this system requires an overhaul of an entire power design in order to make it fast-paced.

It could work, yes. But the entire game will change so I'm not sure about it.

[GozertNL]

I actually like the energy system more than a cooldown system.

[Kiteless]

I think what's more important would to make sure that each frame has more than one skill that is actually useful. Considering the states of Frost, Mag, Nyx, Rhino, Saryn, and Volt, I'd consider that the most pressing issue concerning skill usage.

 

Although I think cooldowns could be effective, I would suggest combining that with a resource management system as well.

Edited May 26, 2013 by Kiteless

[Pixues]

This was suggested a thousand times and always been rejected. So no thanks.

 

link to official rejection please. I need to see it. 

[Chamiel]

As much as I remember, there was a cooldown system in closed beta. They kicked it because it didn't work well (game was to slow, people were waiting outside of a room till all the cooldowns were up and so on)

For more information -> Search for "Cooldown closed beta"

 

My personal opinion: please no Cooldowns!

[Aggh]

Cool down systems are just as bad since you'll always be able to use your abilities.  It'll just slow down the pace of gameplay since people will just run away while they wait for the cool down to end.

 

link to official rejection please. I need to see it. 

The game used to have a cool down system way back.  It doesn't anymore :|

Edited May 26, 2013 by Aggh

[Pixues]

As much as I remember, there was a cooldown system in closed beta. They kicked it because it didn't work well (game was to slow, people were waiting outside of a room till all the cooldowns were up and so on)

For more information -> Search for "Cooldown closed beta"

 

My personal opinion: please no Cooldowns!

 

I can imagine a small portion of players doing this, but i can't imagine it was so large that made the skill system require changes. 

I can also understand the reasoning behind the cooldown system feeling slow. 

 

But this is not the answer to 'slow' gameplay. Mindless run-into-large-group-activate-skill4-and-repeat. I'm seeing this happen too often, literally like that.    

 

The way i suggested it, it could motivate players to keep going instead of waiting in a corner, because they can actively reduce their cooldowns. 

If it is not going to be a cooldown in the end, fine....but spam like this i can't accept. Not if the game is lacking depth in any aspect you can think of.

 

They should either reduce spam or add lots of depth to the aspect of battle. 

Edited May 26, 2013 by Pixues

[IlIlllIO0pallaO0IlIlIlIl]

How is cooldown more dynamic than the energy system? Cooldown limits the frequency of each abilities, and is much harsher well-defined limit than the energy system. Also, this would discourage people from building their warframes to specific play style: my Excalibur Prime only uses one ability: Dash, and all the mods are selected for maximizing that ability, cooldown would kill it.

 

What DE needs is an improvement to the energy system. What about add energy consumption to charge attack to give greater charge damage? What about blocking physical blows absorbs that damage and turns it into energy?

 

Spamming is the part of the gameplay. I can play tanky role with Loki by spamming decoys one after another. I can do extremely efficient DPS AOE by spamming slash dashes. Vauban can spam teslas on certain choke points to create an uber killing zone. Also, cooldown doesn't fix spamming.

[Guest]

I want that Solar Energy system somebody designed and explained in detail how it would work. It allowed caster frames like Volt to use their basic shoot skill but it would also limit the spam of ultimates.

[OriKlein]

I'm comfortable with the current system.

Although, to tell the truth, I rarely use the abilities, I mostly use my weapons.

I'm certain if someone has an idea for a system that is more fun to play with that DE will listen.

Best Regards,

[Probta16]

Maybe a cooldown for the energy drop. If you kill with skill enemies will not drop energy.

 

I think is kinda drastic but could be worked for something better.

[Xylia]

I think what's more important would to make sure that each frame has more than one skill that is actually useful. Considering the states of Frost, Mag, Nyx, Rhino, Saryn, and Volt, I'd consider that the most pressing issue concerning skill usage.

 

Although I think cooldowns could be effective, I would suggest combining that with a resource management system as well.

 

Speaking of Rhino...

 

They buffed some of his skills. It wasn't in the patch notes, but Radial Blast actually does some damage, as does Rhino Charge. I simply don't have the extra Mod Slots to actually equip Stomp, so I haven't tried that Post-U8 yet...

[Garth_Tremor]

Cooldowns would remove fast paced action element.

You use your ultimate on 1 large group, but right around the corner is a new mob. What do you do? Run around until the cooldown ends

[Tsukinoki]

They had a CD system in early CBT. it slowed down gameplay far to much. The reason? Why go into the next room without all of your abilities refreshed? Everyone, and I do mean everyone, was waiting 30 to 45 seconds outside of every single door to fully refresh their abilities before going in. There was ZERO reason not to.

With an energy system you at least have to kill to get orbs meaning no point in sitting outside of a door for an extra 30 seconds.

Furthermore people already complain that missions take too long. If you had an extra 5 minutes for every 10 rooms in the map you'll find that missions take *far* longer than they do now.

All a CD system would do is slow down gameplay to almost a crawl.

Other games use a CD system. But Warframe is not those other games, no need to make it into those other games either.

One other thing:

You complain that people just use their ults, collect orbs and repeat with the next group endlessly. A CD system would help with that. Reason? You dont need to rely on RNG giving you orbs, meaning you use your ult and wipe out a group. Wait around for 30 to 45 seconds and go into the next room. Use your ults again.

See the problem? It would just lead to more waiting and not fix one of the "problems" that you see with the energy system.

Edited May 26, 2013 by Tsukinoki

[Story4]

If all 4 players have energy siphon you get 2 energy every second so you get 50 energy every 25 seconds. Almost like cool-down, not to mention that sometimes you backtrack to get the other energy orbs that you missed or to search containers for it which is almost like waiting for CD, just that instead of standing still waiting for CD your running backwards looking for energy orbs.

Edited May 26, 2013 by Story4

[Feldgrep]

just went straight to the bottom, so sorry if someone already said this

current system:

Full Energy>Use Ult>Kill All Enemies>Pick Up Energy Orbs>Full Energy

cooldown:

Use Ult>Kill All Enemies>Wait till Ult is ready>Use Ult

 

either way, people will spam ults. i actually dont see ability spamming that much anymore

 

 

They had a CD system in early CBT. it slowed down gameplay far to much. The reason? Why go into the next room without all of your abilities refreshed? Everyone, and I do mean everyone, was waiting 30 to 45 seconds outside of every single door to fully refresh their abilities before going in. There was ZERO reason not to.

With an energy system you at least have to kill to get orbs meaning no point in sitting outside of a door for an extra 30 seconds.

Furthermore people already complain that missions take too long. If you had an extra 5 minutes for every 10 rooms in the map you'll find that missions take *far* longer than they do now.

All a CD system would do is slow down gameplay to almost a crawl.

Other games use a CD system. But Warframe is not those other games, no need to make it into those other games either.

One other thing:
You complain that people just use their ults, collect orbs and repeat with the next group endlessly. A CD system would help with that. Reason? You dont need to rely on RNG giving you orbs, meaning you use your ult and wipe out a group. Wait around for 30 to 45 seconds and go into the next room. Use your ults again.
See the problem? It would just lead to more waiting and not fix one of the "problems" that you see with the energy system.

nevermind, it was posted

[Feldgrep]

also, some games use a combo of CD and energy. have short CDs, were talking 5, 6 seconds, and keep energy. I prefer current system, but i would prefer this if we HAD to go to a CD system

[Story4]

also, some games use a combo of CD and energy. have short CDs, were talking 5, 6 seconds, and keep energy. I prefer current system, but i would prefer this if we HAD to go to a CD system

 

A bit better system would be one where you had high cooldown and an energy pool. Let me explain.

You have a CD like 20 seconds for the 25 energy ability and 50 seconds for the ultimate (just an example, it doesn't HAVE to be like this), it is free, with no energy cost, but if your in trouble you can use it a second time at an energy cost, let's say max pool 100 energy. So for example you use Iron Skin, but then another wave comes, you use ult, but your still in trouble, but your iron skin is still on CD so you can use your ability while it's on CD at the cost of energy. I think it would be a pretty good compromise between CD and Energy system.

Edited May 26, 2013 by Story4

[Unknown924]

A bit better system would be one where you had high cooldown and an energy pool. Let me explain.

You have a CD like 20 seconds for the 25 energy ability and 50 seconds for the ultimate (just an example, it doesn't HAVE to be like this), it is free, with no energy cost, but if your in trouble you can use it a second time at an energy cost, let's say max pool 100 energy. So for example you use Iron Skin, but then another wave comes, you use ult, but your still in trouble, but your iron skin is still on CD so you can use your ability while it's on CD at the cost of energy. I think it would be a pretty good compromise between CD and Energy system.

Interesting, that could promote use of lesser used abilities. Rhino is a good example for this. Radial Blast is only 25 energy away from Rhino Stomp which is better, as a result RB is not used that much. There could be a mod to reduce the cooldown time also.

[vieuxchat]

Yes ! That is intresting ! time would be the "price".

A price of 100 energy could be paid in time or energy :

1 second per energy point.

So you cast one time : free. Second time right after 100 energy.

Second time after 15 seconds ? 85 energy.

 

I really like that idea. You could still spam and use all of your abilities even when lacking energy.

 

EDIT: And no need for a mod that reduce CD as the energy cost would be the CD !

Edited May 26, 2013 by vieuxchat

[Fireblac]

The whole point of having skills so accessible to us is in my opinion to make it feel like the game isnt just focused on guns. It's a shooter game yes but the whole point is we are using special armor suits that have special powers which we are to be used as weapons plain and simple. Early game whenever I level up a new frame it always seems like I can never get enough energy then around say level 12-15 it seems I always have enough and at max level it seems I can never run out  unless I use 3 ults within 20 seconds. There is also the fact that even though max level frames can spam skills, you most likely have many very good weapons that can kill slightly slower, the same speed or even faster than even spamming skills(depending on what typwe of weapons used) if you are quick enough at aiming, getting into correct position, keep moving and or have a decent group.

 

I do see where people are coming from and I can also see a cooldown for the Ult/Num4 skills say maybe 5-15 seconds but that is it for cooldowns. Other than that I could also seeing them do something about the energy system but nothing too dramatic. Say...reduce the amount of energy orbs that drop it that is still debatable because sometime I'll kill 10-15 enemies and only get 1-3 orbs other times i can get upwards of 6-8. Again I think it is fine as it is now because guns and mobility can be utilized and be just as effective in the right hands as multiple uses of skills though yes something could be done I guess.

 

I will also say I think the last few posts starting with Story4's idea have some good points too and I don't think I would mind that too much either but maybe with a slightly higher energy pool than 100 unless you can mod the max energy like we can now then I think it would be fine.

[Story4]

Well i don't really think that skills are that good, or they have good ideas, but at high-levels most warframes have useless damaging abilities.

Take Ember for example, she is only good against infested and if she goes against them on pluto even she will have a hard time against them. Not to mention going against corpus or grineer, prepare to get your &#! kicked. That is why you need a good weapon, because abilities can't help you and they deal a lot less damage compared to the abilities. I am really curious to see how the latest weapons only available from clan dojos are, but i think that it will render damaging abilities even more useless.

A good system i think would be to let you choose what weapons you want and for example if you choose to only get 2 weapons(secondary, melee) instead of 3 (melee, primary secondary) you get 50% more ability damage, if you choose to only get your melee weapon then you get +100% melee damage. I think it would be a good compromise so that caster warframes can deal it at the expense of not having all their weapons.