Archwing Power Efficiency.... The Worse Mod Ever

[flamingblueice]

Anyone ever wonder why the archwing power effiiency mod,(i forgot the name here) has 10 levels and a giant drain, but still offers a petty measly amount of efficiency? would it hurt if the number was increased a little bit more, to atleast say, 50%? Leveling mods up all the way is not all that easy for everyone. That too it being a rare mod gobbles up cores like anything! Shouldn't we get something better for all this trouble?

[-S--Nightmaric]

tbh i still didn't get this mod but 10 ranks? Dam i might just quit archwing since im not gonna waste my cores

[DarkRuler2500]

Mod shows what Archwing is like right now.

Too lil' reward for too much work.

[FelisImpurrator]

Well, it's not the worst mod. Pure status like Melee Prowess comes to mind.

 

It is, however, one of the two least cost-effective mods in the game, the other being Hyperion Thrusters. Increasing the effects (I would say, for instance, 40% for efficiency, but Hyperion Thrusters wouldn't hurt to double) or halving the ranks would immediately improve both mods.

[ivlr3vil]

A max rank 30 archwing is generally really efficient with energy. Energy orb drops are abundant.

 

With the mod maxed out, it's really hard to lose all your energy, it just promotes more power spam.

Edited August 30, 2015 by ivlr3vil

[flamingblueice]

tbh i still didn't get this mod but 10 ranks? Dam i might just quit archwing since im not gonna waste my cores

That is the whole point! People already dont like archwing that much and the most important of all stats, the efficiency is just at 130% at max rank? that sucks a lot. not only that. the highest that these stats can go is 130%. that takes away the fun of modding and instead costs loads of creds and cores for nothing!!!

[flamingblueice]

A max rank 30 archwing is generally really efficient with energy. Energy orb drops are abundant.

 

With the mod maxed out, it's really hard to lose all your energy, it just promotes more power spam.

But taking that mod all the way up, that is not easy for everyone... people have issues, some have bad net, others have other spheres of life to tend to. i have seen MR 12 tenno not having hornet strike or even serration totally maxed. energy drop is abundant i agree, but when swarmed, that poor efficiency takes away all options and power spamming doesnt seem like feasible anymore...

Edited August 30, 2015 by flamingblueice

[AM-Bunny]

I feel as though many of the balance changes in Archwing vs normal play are a direct result of the devs having a better grasp of game balance.

 

Efficiency is one of the leading causes of ridiculous ability spam (the other being Energy pads) and I think they wanted to keep that environment away from Archwing. Personally, I'm glad that Archwing is dominantly weapon-based combat still, not AOE ability spam. I don't think that the cost/return ratio of Systems Reroute is bad, rather Stream/Fleeting is too good. 

 

Similarly, Dual Rounds only offers +30% Multishot. This is not the pure doubling of DPS that Split Chamber offers, and you actually have to put some thought into whether or not it's worth slotting. I personally enjoy this more balanced approach.

[Ov3rd0se]

You don't really need efficiency anyway to be honest.

[(PSN)OMGITSNUKERXD]

I agree with you.I have that mod maxed but I still don't get how a maxed streamline would have more energy efficiency...

[MumblesMcphatty]

Warm Coat says "Hi!"

[Acaelus]

For the same reason that the elemental bullet jump mods are 10 rank mods with huge drain, incredibly low drop chances (with multiple variations), and give almost no benefit over mobilize.

 

Because if you want it (whatever it is in context) you have no other option.

 

Want power efficiency in archwing mode? 10 rank mod!

Want movement speed in archwing mode? 10 rank mod!

Want more than 20% bullet jump velocity? 10 rank mod!

Want heavy caliber for pistols? 10 rank mod!... Wait heavy caliber is already 10 ranks... We'll it make 1/4 as useful then!

Want a reasonable status chance mod? Hope for a re-release of old event mods!

Want a reasonable physical damage (slash/puncture/impact) mod? Hope for a re-release of old event mods!

Want 90% power range in exchange for 60% power strength? 5 rank mod!

Want the same thing but for power strength, duration or power strength instead? 10 rank mod!

Want elemental resistance mods, a very niche and unused mod catagory aspect, to be classified as a utility mod so it can fit in the exilus slot? Too bad!

 

...Aaaand yet I took all of these examples from my mod inventory full of mostly useless yet still max ranked mods. Well then.

[----Dante----]

how about most of conclave mods that take more than they give?xD

[(PSN)PeetSquared]

I feel as though many of the balance changes in Archwing vs normal play are a direct result of the devs having a better grasp of game balance.

Efficiency is one of the leading causes of ridiculous ability spam (the other being Energy pads) and I think they wanted to keep that environment away from Archwing. Personally, I'm glad that Archwing is dominantly weapon-based combat still, not AOE ability spam. I don't think that the cost/return ratio of Systems Reroute is bad, rather Stream/Fleeting is too good.

Similarly, Dual Rounds only offers +30% Multishot. This is not the pure doubling of DPS that Split Chamber offers, and you actually have to put some thought into whether or not it's worth slotting. I personally enjoy this more balanced approach.

I could almost agree with this arguement, if only there were a few more mods in AW. As it is, if you don't use Dual Rounds or something of the like, what is there to use instead? I know I'm simplifying the issue but there really is a lack of variety for modding AW toys.

[Ashnal]

Anyone ever wonder why the archwing power effiiency mod,(i forgot the name here) has 10 levels and a giant drain, but still offers a petty measly amount of efficiency? would it hurt if the number was increased a little bit more, to atleast say, 50%? Leveling mods up all the way is not all that easy for everyone. That too it being a rare mod gobbles up cores like anything! Shouldn't we get something better for all this trouble?

Probably because in the on foot missions the power efficiency mods are one of the main things that make our Warframe's godlike. 75% efficiency allows us to use abilities 4x as much. That's a lot, and has been one of the reasons that things like draco and 4 spam (which are long time issues).

 

Since DE has always been very hesitant to change mods that already exist (preferring to instead release new ones that are better), they saw Archwing as a way to release a new set of mods that are a lot more balanced. They also give the player more room to grow by being more ranks (there's nothing inherently wrong about using a mod that is 8/10,too many people flip their S#&$ over those last two ranks).

 

Overall you'll fidn that these differences mean that Archwing missions are a better balance of weapon use, movement, and power use since energy is more of a limiting factor.

 

It's just a damn shame that all of this tends to get overlooked since many players dislike archwing. It's not that good of a mode, so most players just see the mods as more tedium. The mods would seem a lot more reasonable if Archwing had more enemies, drops, and mission variety.

 

TLDR: DE took Archwing as an opportunity to start fresh with mods using the experience of design gained from the on foot game.

[Darkmoone1]

I feel as though many of the balance changes in Archwing vs normal play are a direct result of the devs having a better grasp of game balance.

 

Efficiency is one of the leading causes of ridiculous ability spam (the other being Energy pads) and I think they wanted to keep that environment away from Archwing. Personally, I'm glad that Archwing is dominantly weapon-based combat still, not AOE ability spam. I don't think that the cost/return ratio of Systems Reroute is bad, rather Stream/Fleeting is too good. 

 

Similarly, Dual Rounds only offers +30% Multishot. This is not the pure doubling of DPS that Split Chamber offers, and you actually have to put some thought into whether or not it's worth slotting. I personally enjoy this more balanced approach.

If this is true, I feel that we are experiencing a calm before the storm should DE ever want to take their balance decisions from Archwing and place them in normal play. People will not enjoy that change(Regardless if it may or may not be good for the game long-term.)

[-InV-igo95862]

I feel as though many of the balance changes in Archwing vs normal play are a direct result of the devs having a better grasp of game balance.

 

Efficiency is one of the leading causes of ridiculous ability spam (the other being Energy pads) and I think they wanted to keep that environment away from Archwing. Personally, I'm glad that Archwing is dominantly weapon-based combat still, not AOE ability spam. I don't think that the cost/return ratio of Systems Reroute is bad, rather Stream/Fleeting is too good. 

 

Similarly, Dual Rounds only offers +30% Multishot. This is not the pure doubling of DPS that Split Chamber offers, and you actually have to put some thought into whether or not it's worth slotting. I personally enjoy this more balanced approach.

 

Better grasp? Damage mods ala Serration is better grasp? Players long requested to have Serration removed as it is a complete mandatory on any weapons. Now archwing just reintroduces same problem then they could have avoided it.

 

I don't ask why there is no Fleeting Expertise in archwing. I ask why energy efficiency mod is rank 10 mod? Why can't it be like Streamline. 5 ranks moderate increase in efficiency. Nobody complains about Streamline.

 

Put more thought? More like put more thought in realizing that mod is useless. Its far better to slap more elemental mods or crit mods then it is to use Dual Rounds. Even on Convas this mods is pointless.

[AzureTerra]

There is no consistency with Archwing mods ~ you go from a 3 rank with a decent result to 10 rank with barely more than the rank 3 offers despite the effort.

 

 

DE took Archwing as an opportunity to start fresh with mods using the experience of design gained from the on foot game.

 

And then tripped on the stairs while taking to print and got the order shuffled up

Edited August 30, 2015 by AzureTerra

[PapaFragolino]

DE already confirmed in Friday's AMA that they aren't planning to change any AW mod, in terms of cost/effect.

 

Year of quality/10

Edited August 30, 2015 by PapaFragolino

[Ashnal]

There is no consistency with Archwing mods ~ you go from a 3 rank with a decent result to 10 rank with barely more than the rank 3 offers despite the effort.

 

 

 

 

 

And then tripped on the stairs while taking to print and got the order shuffled up

Not really. Look at it from a cause and effect stand point:

 

In the on foot game, things like Power Efficiency, Power Strength, and Power Duration allow players to basically trivialize the game with the right powers. So when designing a new mod system, they made these things harder to stack since they are the most powerful effects. this is why you see them as 10 rank mods without too much effect.

 

Many players have always complained about not enough to do. DE saw this and decided that giving many commonly used mods more ranks would give players more reason to play and collect mods to power them up. Keep in mind this was before Primed mods entered the picture.

 

Are the Archwing mods at a lot lower cost/benefit ratios? Of course. They were intentionally designed that way since the warframe versions of the mods are quite OP in many ways.

 

And, in line with human nature, you're upset that it's not as good as something else, even if it produces better gameplay in the end. Look at the big picture, not just "I need to grind more for less effect."

Edited August 30, 2015 by Ashnal

[VocalMagic]

not just "I need to grind more for less effect."

Thing is, we've got a metric you-know-what-ton of grind. We want a decreased grind. They keep implementing increased grind.

[Valiant]

I feel as though many of the balance changes in Archwing vs normal play are a direct result of the devs having a better grasp of game balance.

Efficiency is one of the leading causes of ridiculous ability spam (the other being Energy pads) and I think they wanted to keep that environment away from Archwing. Personally, I'm glad that Archwing is dominantly weapon-based combat still, not AOE ability spam. I don't think that the cost/return ratio of Systems Reroute is bad, rather Stream/Fleeting is too good.

Similarly, Dual Rounds only offers +30% Multishot. This is not the pure doubling of DPS that Split Chamber offers, and you actually have to put some thought into whether or not it's worth slotting. I personally enjoy this more balanced approach.

Yeah it's not so bad at face value but the problem is with the amount of resources required to max them. If the effects are going to be halved so should the core/credit amount, right? To balance it out a bit.

This still doesn't mean Hyperion thrusters shouldn't receive a buff... God know what I was thinking when I used a legendary core on it. Expected more speed. Sorely wrong.

[Hortonman]

Personally, I think rank 10 mods in their entirety are a bad idea.

With the fusion requirement doubling every rank, 10 rank mods shoot straight up into exponentially absurd grind requirements.

I think the highest any mod should go is 5 ranks, but baring that, the cost curve should at least be a bit shallower, and not so absurdly quadratic.

[Ashnal]

Thing is, we've got a metric you-know-what-ton of grind. We want a decreased grind. They keep implementing increased grind.

It's better solved by adding more mission variety and fun gameplay. Making mods less ranks just treats the symptom, not the cause. The cause being that archwing itself is dull. If archwing were actually fun to play for any length of time it wouldn't be  problem that you have to spend a lot of time to make progress.

 

What some people don't seem to realize is that the difference between a grindy game and one that isn't is that the grindy one is dull and repetitive while the one that isn't grindy has variety and is engaging. They both could have the exact same amount of play time required to unlock stuff, yet people would call the dull game grindy and the fun game not. It's more about player engagement than the actual time requirement, though it IS harder to keep a player engaged for a longer time.

 

With that in mind, you'll see that DE has actually been working on fixing the repetitive nature of Warframe. The Syndicate daily missions are a good example. You get the thing you're after (reputation) not bu doing the same mission over an over, but by doing a variety of missions presented to you. The new starchart that they've been talking about seems to tackle this issue head on. Archwing though, just needs more variety of content.

Edited August 30, 2015 by Ashnal

[Eldnacpeek]

This is definitely a major issue. Though, something that really irks me is the fact the duration mod is named "EFFICIENT TRANSFERRAL" and the efficiency mod is named "SYSTEM REROUTE".