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Why Do People Complain About Mesa But Not Frost?

BaronVonBangin

By BaronVonBangin,
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BaronVonBangin

BaronVonBangin

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One of Frosts changes was that his Snowglobe now has a health pool.  At higher ranked missions, this becomes highly inconvenient, especially with HRoF mobs.  

Well, it does have a period of invulnerability, but that's beside the point.

How different would Mesa (or any other damage frame) if immunity from damage didn't exist?

Why do people still open threads like this? Weren't evolution and adaptation the strong points in humankind?

I wanted the focus more to be on invincibility and how that affects high damage frames (Mesa being a prime example). But when Mesa is mentioned it tends to shift focus.

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MagPrime

MagPrime

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Well, it does have a period of invulnerability, but that's beside the point.

How different would Mesa (or any other damage frame) if immunity from damage didn't exist?

With Mesa, she'd either be moving around a lot or dead, a lot.  The other 'damage' frames are able to move around and utilize cover.

 

Personally, I think it'd be interesting if Frosts Snowglobe was turned into a giant ice wall similar to Volts Energy Shield.  It could have 100% slow proc on anyone that got too close to it and it'd still have it's health pool, but remove the "No Touchy'' mode

I could gift you the necessary components.

I have them, just no interest in grinding out the rep for The All Seeing Eye of Judgy Judgy.

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OliverSniper

OliverSniper

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Mesa have a rly strong and efective kit. provided that u use a weapon with strong burst dmg i.e a bow for  example her 1 and 2 can amp that shoot eaven more, her 3 makes her nearly unkillable and 4 can bee used to stack her 1 and just to deal dmg in general while bee safe from dmg do to 3 u just nead duration strenght and eficency thats it.

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rechot

rechot

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Really easily? Every freaking 20 seconds you have to hurt yourself with a suicidal or less effective weapon (and not to die), you have to spend slots on Flow and Quick thinking, then you have to replenish your energy after it was drained. And you also have to do something else. Play for example. This is still MASTERPIECE for me. Too hard, too boring to provide permanent damage reduction.

I'm on my phone right now but when I get home I will post a video of a me at the 90 minute mark doing this with trin

Edited by rechot
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MagPrime

MagPrime

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I don't have issue with either.

 

But some people like to beat a dead horse based on bias information and propaganda so that other frames  and there broken

mechanisms don't get noticed. i.e. Perma - invisible Loki.

 

tumblr_inline_n8cugbcudt1sh39fc.gif

 

*whispers*

He stares at your butt......

...I do have a nice butt.

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Fyos

Fyos

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Poorly veiled 'nerf frost' thread.

 

When other frames with great mitigation abilities are mentioned, you suggest removing all of it instead of (heaven forbid!) changing mesa. When it was mentioned that mesa has one of the most spammable, full-map, and generally braindead ults ever conceived you proceed to shift your goalposts yet again.

 

You do understand that you're pretty much going to be in one spot for a defense mission, right?

 

Let's just hurt the frames that reward sticking together over the single frame with the single ability that never needs to move to kill everything on the map.

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Ryme

Ryme

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So does that mean that damage frames shouldn't be allowed to be a thing? Because they kill things too quickly? Or should damage abilities be more localized?

 

Damage frames power spam has always been an issue. I am merely explaining why people complain about them, and why Frost isn't a contender in that debate. Way back when there were only 4 frames in the entire game, Volt was 4 spam master and was complained about, until it was nerfed into the ground.

 

How to "deal" with them is a delicate issue, with no clear solution that will please both sides. It is either too powerful and makes other player inconsequential, or is too weak and not worth the energy cost. There was once a suggestion that "ultimates" should have cool down timers, to restrict their spam. However, the stat inflation that comes with "endgame" enemies, made spam of damage abilities necessary. The better solution would've been to keep abilities tied to utility, instead of straight damage; but we're too far down the road to pick that other path now.

Edited by Ryme
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HalfDarkShadow

HalfDarkShadow

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Why do people still open threads like this? Weren't evolution and adaptation the strong points in humankind?

Wells, I'm in the more "it's just beating a dead horse" at this point.

We all understand by now, with players overusing her 4th a bit much, and it can be frustrating. Though I can't personally say much since one, I didn't even knew about this until a few months ago (I guess during her release, not many people had her just yet), and secondly, because I don't go run Ceres on that one node, and with doing Void a lot, I almost never run into those kind of players, unless it's randoms looking for a very specific team.

 

Just throwing this as an example: I ran I think 15ish Void runs yesterday (give or take, mostly T3/T4 Defense, and one or two T1 Defense because I was trying to get Rhino Prime's Systems for a friend of mine lol), and I only recall running into a Mesa player (not counting myself if I felt like playing her haha), one time. I'd say add that to the past few months, and that's been my experience. Hence why I can't really say much, and why I didn't know it was really much of a problem with her 4th until hoping on the forums from time to time haha.

 

Though with the ones who do run Ceres pretty often (especially when you need the quick exp when forma'ing), wouldn't be ideal to bring her anyway, since you'd probably want to finish the run as soon as possible? I mean it's not really ideal to use her 4th for a T4 Defense if you're going beyond 20 waves, doing to the drop in dps just like any other straight-damaging skill (though she pans out waayyy better then say, Mag's 4th's damage, though it has the nice crowd control), but beyond that wouldn't the whole point of grinding on Ceres would be to grab the best team-set up you can to efficiently finish it as much and fast as possible? I mean like I said, I personally never ran into those kind of Mesa players unless it's on Ceres for example, so am I missing something here? Like a key component? Not saying you wont find them in like a Void mission, but from what I can tell, it's few and far between.

I mean if you're just sitting around, I'd say just drop Ceres and do some Void or Spy missions, since Void can yield as much exp you would need (with the additional Prime parts for yourself/ducats/trading), or not as efficient Spy missions, but to break the pace of the typical Defense/Interception missions, and still get some nice exp for it.

 

I don't know, just throwing ideas here lol.

there broken mechanisms don't get noticed. i.e. Perma - invisible Loki.

#datpundoe

#iseewutudidhur

Edited by HalfDarkShadow
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S.T.M.P.D

S.T.M.P.D

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This is PRECISELY the issue I have, especially given said 4 overshadows all of her more active and generally more awesome abilities. Personally, I think it needs to become a more active ability to fit with the rest.

How bout making Peacemaker, like - regular guns? Just two OP revolvers. No getting stuck in place, just fun guns.
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BaronVonBangin

BaronVonBangin

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Poorly veiled 'nerf frost' thread.

 

When other frames with great mitigation abilities are mentioned, you suggest removing all of it instead of (heaven forbid!) changing mesa. When it was mentioned that mesa has one of the most spammable, full-map, and generally braindead ults ever conceived you proceed to shift your goalposts yet again.

 

You do understand that you're pretty much going to be in one spot for a defense mission, right?

 

Let's just hurt the frames that reward sticking together over the single frame with the single ability that never needs to move to kill everything on the map.

Really no need to get overly emotional/hostile. But I do wonder at what point is invincibility okay and high damage isn't.

Other Tenno have said, if Frosts ability to make allies invincible is gone then other invincibility powers would be used instead. To me, that raises issues on how much damage enemies are doing to the point that high duration invincibility is a MUST.

I also use the Mesa as an example of a high damage frame. If, for instance, Ember's WoF ability was worth using, would that warrant a nerf? Is direct killing power on abilities bad?

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S0V3REiGN

S0V3REiGN

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Oh look the same line of thinking that got Mag nerfed into irrelevance is being brought back to try and nerf Frost. When will you accept the real issue is Mesa's peacemaker and stop trying to throw other warframes under the bus? What will be next? Let's nerf Limbo because his cataclysm makes Mesa invisible while also giving her energy? Sure, lets also setup an appointment to have Trinity's EV nerfed another patch after that one too.

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