Something I Just Realized About The Multishot Update Incoming

[bowiespoon]

If multishot consumes more ammo, isn't it just a fire rate mod?

 

Looks like DE dont want me to use my vipers at endgame.

 

a real shame too, because my wraith vipers were actually pretty good at T4....

Edited September 5, 2015 by bowiespoon

[Spr1ggs]

[AlchemistMute]

Alternatively, don't equip your multishot mods.

[AdunSaveMe]

firing speed =/= projectiles fired per shot

[KittyDarkling]

silly Tenno, firerate mods always work! Multishot only has a CHANCE at working! so their obviously completely different.

[Celle-Reveris]

Theoretically sure, the only real difference is when you reach situations wherein your weapon physically cannot fire that number of rounds anymore, a la Tigris/Vectis(Prime with Depleted reload)-- does your weapon fire the multishot regardless, fire but without the multishot, or does it just not fire(excluding cases where your magazine is actually zero)?

[Lost_Cartographer]

firing speed =/= projectiles fired per shot

Sure... when multi-shot doesn't consume the appropriate amount of ammo.

 

So you have two guns:

 

First gun has 40 round magazine but shoots two rounds at the same time at 10 rounds per second.

 

Your second gun has a 40 round magazine, shoots only one round at a time, but at 20 rounds per second.

 

Which one empties first?

 

Follow up question in case you do the math and argue the insignificant difference: Does it freaking matter?

 

Multi-shot (as proposed) will essentially be a fire rate mod -or- it will be a mod that consumes twice as much ammo per shot in exchange for doubling your weapon's damage per shot.  Pick your poison, they both taste the same and have the same nasty effects:  more bullets out, faster.

Edited September 5, 2015 by Littleman88

[SonovSniglet]

One thing I haven't seen discussed much is when combined, multi-shot and RoF mods will act multiplicative. As far as I understand it, RoF is proc'ed after multi-shot, thus if you have a mod that adds 100% MS and one that adds 100% RoF, you will actually use 4x the ammo. This means Lethal Torrent alone will increase ammo consumption by 156%.

  I currently use a Dex Furis with Lethal Torrent and Barrel Diffusion, which has a fire rate of 32. Under the proposed changes, that will increase to 89.6 if my calculations are correct. At that rate, i will go through the 100 round clip in 1.12 seconds, and will get 3.45 seconds of sustained fire before I am out of ammo. Without some major re-balancing from DE, any weapon that relies on MS + RoF for DPS is going to get destroyed.

[MaverickZero]

One thing I haven't seen discussed much is when combined, multi-shot and RoF mods will act multiplicative. As far as I understand it, RoF is proc'ed after multi-shot, thus if you have a mod that adds 100% MS and one that adds 100% RoF, you will actually use 4x the ammo. This means Lethal Torrent alone will increase ammo consumption by 156%.

  I currently use a Dex Furis with Lethal Torrent and Barrel Diffusion, which has a fire rate of 32. Under the proposed changes, that will increase to 89.6 if my calculations are correct. At that rate, i will go through the 100 round clip in 1.12 seconds, and will get 3.45 seconds of sustained fire before I am out of ammo. Without some major re-balancing from DE, any weapon that relies on MS + RoF for DPS is going to get destroyed.

Anything with a rate of fire over 3 will need a bigger ammo pool.

[Blazer-X]

Yeah, that's essentially what a lot of us old-timers have caught on. Multishot with ammo in the balance basically becomes an additional front-loaded fire rate multiplier. This means that for most automatic weapons, it functions near identical to fire rate mods. However, for your semi-auto weapons, it sorta gets a "more damage & ammo consumption per trigger pulled" niche. And of course, it becomes a big "?" when we're talking about Vectis and Tigris where there isn't enough ammo per clip to begin with. 

[MaverickZero]

Yeah, that's essentially what a lot of us old-timers have caught on. Multishot with ammo in the balance basically becomes an additional front-loaded fire rate multiplier. This means that for most automatic weapons, it functions near identical to fire rate mods. However, for your semi-auto weapons, it sorta gets a "more damage & ammo consumption per trigger pulled" niche. And of course, it becomes a big "?" when we're talking about Vectis and Tigris where there isn't enough ammo per clip to begin with. 

Vectis won't even trigger Multishot with the 1 bullet in the mag. Vectis Prime finally won.

[Kinetos]

Unless multishot ammo is drawn from reserve ammo instead of from the mag.

 

Regarding balance, they did make a point of saying that if they do this they would simultaneously rebalance every weapon, not just do this with no other changes.

[Mastikator2]

Can someone explain this to me, how is Split Chamber fun?

 

There a a lot of things that are fun in Warframe, modding your weapons is one of them, but Split Chamber not costing ammo, how is that one?

[Kinetos]

Can someone explain this to me, how is Split Chamber fun?

 

There a a lot of things that are fun in Warframe, modding your weapons is one of them, but Split Chamber not costing ammo, how is that one?

Multishot on explosive weapons is fun, not costing ammo isn't a required feature per se. depending on how they make the change though, it could affect the Angstrum's ability to launch as many rockets at once as it can.

[TheWebbliestPrime]

silly Tenno, firerate mods always work! Multishot only has a CHANCE at working! so their obviously completely different.

When the chance is 120%, it's guaranteed to work with a 20% chance of working twice over. When the chance is 200% like on Shattered Justice, it works twice every shot. The only multishot mod with a chance lower than 120% at max rank is Split Chamber at 90%. If the new idea of multishot is implemented, making the weapon spend more ammo, then technically in a sense it will affect fire rate, since more rounds will be consumed when using multishot.

 

Multishot on explosive weapons is fun, not costing ammo isn't a required feature per se. depending on how they make the change though, it could affect the Angstrum's ability to launch as many rockets at once as it can.

It can and it will, because it will cost possibly 200% more ammo to fire, and since the clip size isn't very big, you'll spend your whole clip in one shot if the extra 20% triggers and only be firing 3 rockets at most, since that is what is fired on a charged shot without multishot nowadays. They might have to rework the charge to only fire one rocket, or advise people not use it on that weapon for that reason.

Edited September 5, 2015 by TheWebbliestPrime

[Kinetos]

It can and it will, because it will cost possibly 200% more ammo to fire, and since the clip size isn't very big, you'll spend your whole clip in one shot if the extra 20% triggers and only be firing 3 rockets at most, since that is what is fired on a charged shot without multishot nowadays. They might have to rework the charge to only fire one rocket, or advise people not use it on that weapon for that reason.

It can, but will it?

 

"depending on how they make the change though"

 

If multishot ammo cost draws from reserve instead of from the mag, it wouldn't make a difference to magazine consumption or the Angstrum's multishot, it would only use total ammo faster. Do we know if they will do this? No. But we don't know they won't, and we don't know what other changes they will make at the same time, they didn't specify, but they did say they will make changes to make this change less of a nerf and more of a fix.

[P0TAT0CANN0N]

Alternatively, don't equip your multishot mods.

And be unable to kill enemies?

 

K.

[Hypernaut1]

The biggest difference between the two mods is that multishot wont effect recoil as much.

[VocalMagic]

and so, Multishot will further mandate Carrier to pick up all of the ammo ever.

[tbeest]

Changed multishot might shoot two bullets when you have one round left in your clip. I can already see this bug coming

[Stingray97]

DE isn't just going to nerf multishot mods without considering the implications and addressing them. People cried out about coptering in the same way and that worked out well so I trust DE that they will get this right too.

[P0TAT0CANN0N]

DE isn't just going to nerf multishot mods without considering the implications and addressing them. People cried out about coptering in the same way and that worked out well so I trust DE that they will get this right too.

Except now we have no directional melee and melee blocking does not block 100% of the damage.

 

Yeah, totally worth it. /s

[Gemini_Jenvas]

I hope that they will do something about pure damage mods next. Any mod you have to use is a bad mod!

Every rifle uses Serration.. wtf?

Edited September 5, 2015 by Jenvas1306

[P0TAT0CANN0N]

I hope that they will do something about pure damage mods next. Any mod you have to use is a bad mod!

OH NO! THE PLAYERS ARE DAMAGING THE ENEMIES WE WORKED SO HARD TO MAKE! BETTER NERF THEIR DAMAGE.

[Kinetos]

OH NO! THE PLAYERS ARE DAMAGING THE ENEMIES WE WORKED SO HARD TO MAKE! BETTER NERF THEIR DAMAGE.

Or, they could remove the mods and buff the base damage of the weapons based on its level so that overall we dont lose any damage at all? If they did that, some people would even GAIN damage, because they don't run a maxed Serration.

Edited September 5, 2015 by KinetosImpetus