[To De And The Community] My Stance On Stances: An Alternate Solution To Obtaining Stances

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

Since the release of the manic, class in warframe players have been subjected to extremely low drop rates. Just recently the vermillion storm stance mod released in u17 and oh boy is it easy to get.

 

Vermillion Storm Drops From Manic Bombards

So if you are not farming on tyl regor

 

You not only have to bet on the chance that a manic bombard will come

You also have to bet on the chance that he will drop a mod

You also have to bet on the chance that he will drop a rare mod

You also have to bet on the chance that he will drop the right rare mod.

 

To be perfectly honest, I would not be so upset if the mod was transmutable, but it's not. Since it's release there has been 1 confirmed case via the wiki, with pics that a player actually got the mod in game. All I want to ask is "why?", I think games with low drop rates are fine, for example the raid drops are for the most part justifiable, because they reap great benefits.

 

But these low drop rates, on simple stance mods make no sense, and to be put on enemies that are not very common, borderline stalker is even worse.

 

If melee is such a big part of your game, then why are you locking one of the major fun factors of melee play behind a 18inch concrete wall of RNG.

 

Not many people have made a really big stink about this because, its only a claws stance as no one really likes claws. But if this becomes a habit, we will once again have content being locked behind large rng walls, much worse than before.

 

How to fix it?

 

Can we stop relying on drop rates to drop stances? The mod drop system works for more novel things that make players unique, things such as the elemental parkour mods, handspring, adhesive blast, are nice little things that tenno can stock up during play in order to amp up the experience. They're not necessary but they are little treasures to have and are valued for the most part. In the case of mods reserve RNG for things that are not UBER important for a weapon to actually work.

 

Aren't stances/combos meant to be learned instead of obtained? Why not add a progressive skill tree for each weapon, as you level up your weapon you earn different move sets for that weapons that way there is actually a reason to level weapons other than increase mod capacity.

 

You can add a dojo, sensei/ swordmaster to the relay. Where you complete certain melee related trials and obtain standing. With that standing you can purchase stance mods and give it a 24 hour wait time before you can use it (since your tenno has to learn how to master it)

 

This way at least it is guaranteed that I can get the stance that I want, and will greatly reduce the unwanted clutter in the drop tables. This way players don't have to deal with atrocious cases like vermillion storm or any other rare stance. Even if the standing cost was high for these stances, It would not bother me, because at least I have some form of progression while getting these. I feel like I'm going somewhere, no one feels like they are progressing when they do their 256th tyl regor boss run, but with this system we can at least give melee more depth, progression and perhaps lore as to why the tenno still use the old ways in these very modern times.

 

If you, warframe community really like this idea please share it to everyone you know. If you have any suggestions to make it better than please feel free to write something over here, let's start a conversation. If theres is something that you would like to clear up or perhaps if you are against the system I am proposing I am encouraging you to write your thoughts as constructive as possible and hopefully we can improve this idea further. Thank you all.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Eureka.seveN

[SleepyPip]

I like it.

 

(Drekar Manic Bombards only appear in Tyl Regor's boss fight BTW)

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

(Drekar Manic Bombards only appear in Tyl Regor's boss fight BTW)

I was not aware of that, thank you. That fact just makes it worse lmao.

[Ngozi98]

I lik the idea. Vermilli has a 1 in a milli chance to drop though. Give up already.

[Danjal777]

DE, read this! We need more varied ways to obtain things, another way is you research the stance, then you have to perform all of the combos before you walk away with the mod.

[7grims]

If melee is such a big part of your game, then why are you locking one of the major fun factors of melee play behind a 18inch concrete wall of RNG.

 

Cause battling against RNG, and being forced to repeat something 100 times, is all the content DE as to offer.

The sad truth is they dont want you to get stuff, and stop playing.

 

 

All this stuff is so logic and obvious, DE should get ashamed their community as deeper thinking process, then what they come up with.

Edited September 6, 2015 by 7grims

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

Cause battling against RNG, and being forced to repeat something 100 times, is all the content DE as to offer.

The sad truth is they dont want you to get stuff, and stop playing.

Yes but with the amount of things you can do now. E.G: Conclave, Daily Missions, Raids. De can easily keep players into their game without having to rely on an rng based system. The syndicate missions are quite fun, and from What I heard from devs, a lot of people play them.

 

If they expanded on those ideas, then De does not need to worry as much on players stopping to play.

 

But regardless, no sane person would do 256 runs on tyl regor just to get a stance, most people including myself said "f-it" after the 10th try.

[DeMonkey]

The sad truth is they dont want you to get stuff, and stop playing.

Yes, genius, the best way for a company to make money from a free to play game is to force everyone to give up and leave.

 

Or maybe they just have other things that they're doing, like designing new frames/weapons, working on the drop tables in the void, and hopefully doing a good job with the multishot changes.

 

But no, you're right, they clearly don't want anyone to play the game anymore.

 

~snip~

I agree that some stance mods are ludicrously hard to get, I've only ever seen 1 or 2 crimson dervish's in my entire playtime. 

Your relay idea certainly could work, personally I'd rather we simply got the stance when we got the weapon, however you have to get a certain number of kills with the weapon to rank up the stance. 

[FelisImpurrator]

I like it.

 

(Drekar Manic Bombards only appear in Tyl Regor's boss fight BTW)

Note that it also drops from regular Manic Bombards in Sabotages on Uranus... which are a 50% chance to even spawn, so on second thought, that's even worse.

 

-

 

I like the idea of learning stances by ranking the weapon, but what about alternate stances and bonus mod points? It seems like it would be just a bit difficult to work in if they came as default, so having a Melee pseudo-syndicate to get them from makes sense.

 

How about this: All melee kills gain standing for this "syndicate". Rare stances cost 50k, uncommon ones cost 25k. Rep cap is set at... let's say 50k a day. Kills gain roughly 100 standing each, scaling based on level (100 is assuming, say, level 30 enemies). From there, you can go for one of two routes:

 

-Stances take 12h 'mastery time' for uncommons and 24h for rares, which can be decreased by up to half by completing optional training challenges with a fixed weapon given to you by the test (to make it purely skill-based, focusing on combo mastery and knowledge of the melee system). Then they're either given as regular mod cards or just given at full rank.

 

-Stances are usable immediately, but start unranked, and have a separate affinity meter that's raised by melee kills - the balance point being, say, half of what it takes to get to rank 30 on a regular item. At specific ranks, different combos would unlock, first at reduced strength (fewer bonuses or multihits) then at full power, like Warframe abilities. Stances would need reworks for those that lack combos or significant bonuses, but that's long overdue anyway, so it would be an acceptable choice.

[Datsher]

Note that it also drops from regular Manic Bombards in Sabotages on Uranus... which are a 50% chance to even spawn, so on second thought, that's even worse.

 

-

 

I like the idea of learning stances by ranking the weapon, but what about alternate stances and bonus mod points? It seems like it would be just a bit difficult to work in if they came as default, so having a Melee pseudo-syndicate to get them from makes sense.

 

How about this: All melee kills gain standing for this "syndicate". Rare stances cost 50k, uncommon ones cost 25k. Rep cap is set at... let's say 50k a day. Kills gain roughly 100 standing each, scaling based on level (100 is assuming, say, level 30 enemies). From there, you can go for one of two routes:

 

-Stances take 12h 'mastery time' for uncommons and 24h for rares, which can be decreased by up to half by completing optional training challenges with a fixed weapon given to you by the test (to make it purely skill-based, focusing on combo mastery and knowledge of the melee system). Then they're either given as regular mod cards or just given at full rank.

 

-Stances are usable immediately, but start unranked, and have a separate affinity meter that's raised by melee kills - the balance point being, say, half of what it takes to get to rank 30 on a regular item. At specific ranks, different combos would unlock, first at reduced strength (fewer bonuses or multihits) then at full power, like Warframe abilities. Stances would need reworks for those that lack combos or significant bonuses, but that's long overdue anyway, so it would be an acceptable choice.

I'd prefer to just get the mod cards because leveling stances after leveling syndicates is kinda annoying.

 

Since the release of the manic, class in warframe players have been subjected to extremely low drop rates. Just recently the vermillion storm stance mod released in u17 and oh boy is it easy to get.

 

Vermillion Storm Drops From Manic Bombards

So if you are not farming on tyl regor

 

You not only have to bet on the chance that a manic bombard will come

You also have to bet on the chance that he will drop a mod

You also have to bet on the chance that he will drop a rare mod

You also have to bet on the chance that he will drop the right rare mod.

 

To be perfectly honest, I would not be so upset if the mod was transmutable, but it's not. Since it's release there has been 1 confirmed case via the wiki, with pics that a player actually got the mod in game. All I want to ask is "why?", I think games with low drop rates are fine, for example the raid drops are for the most part justifiable, because they reap great benefits.

 

But these low drop rates, on simple stance mods make no sense, and to be put on enemies that are not very common, borderline stalker is even worse.

 

If melee is such a big part of your game, then why are you locking one of the major fun factors of melee play behind a 18inch concrete wall of RNG.

 

Not many people have made a really big stink about this because, its only a claws stance as no one really likes claws. But if this becomes a habit, we will once again have content being locked behind large rng walls, much worse than before.

 

How to fix it?

 

Can we stop relying on drop rates to drop stances? The mod drop system works for more novel things that make players unique, things such as the elemental parkour mods, handspring, adhesive blast, are nice little things that tenno can stock up during play in order to amp up the experience. They're not necessary but they are little treasures to have and are valued for the most part. In the case of mods reserve RNG for things that are not UBER important for a weapon to actually work.

 

Aren't stances/combos meant to be learned instead of obtained? Why not add a progressive skill tree for each weapon, as you level up your weapon you earn different move sets for that weapons that way there is actually a reason to level weapons other than increase mod capacity.

 

You can add a dojo, sensei/ swordmaster to the relay. Where you complete certain melee related trials and obtain standing. With that standing you can purchase stance mods and give it a 24 hour wait time before you can use it (since your tenno has to learn how to master it)

 

This way at least it is guaranteed that I can get the stance that I want, and will greatly reduce the unwanted clutter in the drop tables. This way players don't have to deal with atrocious cases like vermillion storm or any other rare stance. Even if the standing cost was high for these stances, It would not bother me, because at least I have some form of progression while getting these. I feel like I'm going somewhere, no one feels like they are progressing when they do their 256th tyl regor boss run, but with this system we can at least give melee more depth, progression and perhaps lore as to why the tenno still use the old ways in these very modern times.

 

If you, warframe community really like this idea please share it to everyone you know. If you have any suggestions to make it better than please feel free to write something over here, let's start a conversation. If theres is something that you would like to clear up or perhaps if you are against the system I am proposing I am encouraging you to write your thoughts as constructive as possible and hopefully we can improve this idea further. Thank you all.

I like it. Even though rare stances will probably be at least 50k rep with a daily cap of 1k + 1k per rank of mastery. 

[7grims]

Yes but with the amount of things you can do now. E.G: Conclave, Daily Missions, Raids. De can easily keep players into their game without having to rely on an rng based system. The syndicate missions are quite fun, and from What I heard from devs, a lot of people play them.

 

If they expanded on those ideas, then De does not need to worry as much on players stopping to play.

 

But regardless, no sane person would do 256 runs on tyl regor just to get a stance, most people including myself said "f-it" after the 10th try.

 

They could have come up with tons of different rewarding systems, but I guess they are afraid of things getting too much accessible, which is crazy, with so much things we can obtain on this game half the stuff should be acquired trough the market.

 

That's one of my points in archwing, DE should regard it as a side-mode, as an extra bonus game, and make it 10 times more accessible, rewording, and gratifying, no point on yet again stomping us with RNG and crazy rotations, and super high difficulty.

 

And no, syndicates missions aren't fun at all, they are the exact same stuff as you get anywhere in the star chart, the only difference is you get 2 ret*rded NPC helpers who like to stumble into everything and get in your front wile you shoot enemies. (I exaggerate, they have been improved, but they are still ret*rded)

 

(wow the word ret*rded gets censored by the forum filters hahahahaha)

Edited September 6, 2015 by 7grims

[FelisImpurrator]

They could have come up with tons of different rewarding systems, but I guess they are afraid of things getting too much accessible, which is crazy, with so much things we can obtain on this game half the stuff should be acquired trough the market.

That's because this community likes finding ways to stomp content with as little effort as possible. Not that it's a good solution. It's like trying to slow down a rocket by tying bricks to it instead of cutting the fuel. They should devote one whole update to getting rid of the exploits AND making rewards fair for everyone.

 

Although half the problem with Archwing is long grind for little reward... the other half IS that it's treated as a side mode. So no one plays it because they don't need it for anything. It should have been part of the game from the start, but it's understandable why it isn't - but now that it's here, it should be seamlessly integrated into regular gameplay. But that's beside the main topic.

 

Syndicate missions could use a bit of an upgrade, but they're still a bit more interesting because of the medallion hunt... except when idiot pugs rush the objective.

I like it. Even though rare stances will probably be at least 50k rep with a daily cap of 1k + 1k per rank of mastery. 

Here's another idea, though.

 

What if we had daily challenges - like a mix of Syndicate Dailies and conclave challenges? Partly "kill x enemies with y melee/with finishers/etc", partly "here, have a random daily mission you can do, with the only restriction being xyz types of melee only".

 

Ultra-rare event stances could be given out in a special way - by completing extra-special challenges. Like, say, replayable Phoenix Intercept for Tempo Royale. Now that would be fun, as far as I'm concerned - make them available to everyone but locked behind a skill/gear wall.

[TheBrsrkr]

Have ten shin sell them for extra weapon xp.

[FelisImpurrator]

Unrelated, but can we call this Stance Stance Revolution?

[-Siris-]

Let's just call this 'syndicate'.... oh wait we already have a suitable candidate.

Teshin

[TheBrsrkr]

Unrelated, but can we call this Stance Stance Revolution?

I would pay so much plat for this. Like, all the plat.

[Sintag]

+1 - Maybe have this mysterious 'sensei' guy also force you to do every combo the stance entails as well?

[unknow99]

You got my +1 too!

 

Now that I looked at all the ideas in this thread & returned into the game afterwards, I can say that the current system...Sucks. :p

 

Also : https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/477231-why-arent-stancesstances/

[Datsher]

What if we had daily challenges - like a mix of Syndicate Dailies and conclave challenges? Partly "kill x enemies with y melee/with finishers/etc", partly "here, have a random daily mission you can do, with the only restriction being xyz types of melee only".

 

Ultra-rare event stances could be given out in a special way - by completing extra-special challenges. Like, say, replayable Phoenix Intercept for Tempo Royale. Now that would be fun, as far as I'm concerned - make them available to everyone but locked behind a skill/gear wall.

I like it +1

[Ezariel]

Since the release of the manic, class in warframe players have been subjected to extremely low drop rates. Just recently the vermillion storm stance mod released in u17 and oh boy is it easy to get.

 

Vermillion Storm Drops From Manic Bombards

So if you are not farming on tyl regor

 

You not only have to bet on the chance that a manic bombard will come

You also have to bet on the chance that he will drop a mod

You also have to bet on the chance that he will drop a rare mod

You also have to bet on the chance that he will drop the right rare mod.

 

To be perfectly honest, I would not be so upset if the mod was transmutable, but it's not. Since it's release there has been 1 confirmed case via the wiki, with pics that a player actually got the mod in game. All I want to ask is "why?", I think games with low drop rates are fine, for example the raid drops are for the most part justifiable, because they reap great benefits.

 

But these low drop rates, on simple stance mods make no sense, and to be put on enemies that are not very common, borderline stalker is even worse.

 

If melee is such a big part of your game, then why are you locking one of the major fun factors of melee play behind a 18inch concrete wall of RNG.

 

Not many people have made a really big stink about this because, its only a claws stance as no one really likes claws. But if this becomes a habit, we will once again have content being locked behind large rng walls, much worse than before.

 

How to fix it?

 

Can we stop relying on drop rates to drop stances? The mod drop system works for more novel things that make players unique, things such as the elemental parkour mods, handspring, adhesive blast, are nice little things that tenno can stock up during play in order to amp up the experience. They're not necessary but they are little treasures to have and are valued for the most part. In the case of mods reserve RNG for things that are not UBER important for a weapon to actually work.

 

Aren't stances/combos meant to be learned instead of obtained? Why not add a progressive skill tree for each weapon, as you level up your weapon you earn different move sets for that weapons that way there is actually a reason to level weapons other than increase mod capacity.

 

You can add a dojo, sensei/ swordmaster to the relay. Where you complete certain melee related trials and obtain standing. With that standing you can purchase stance mods and give it a 24 hour wait time before you can use it (since your tenno has to learn how to master it)

 

This way at least it is guaranteed that I can get the stance that I want, and will greatly reduce the unwanted clutter in the drop tables. This way players don't have to deal with atrocious cases like vermillion storm or any other rare stance. Even if the standing cost was high for these stances, It would not bother me, because at least I have some form of progression while getting these. I feel like I'm going somewhere, no one feels like they are progressing when they do their 256th tyl regor boss run, but with this system we can at least give melee more depth, progression and perhaps lore as to why the tenno still use the old ways in these very modern times.

 

If you, warframe community really like this idea please share it to everyone you know. If you have any suggestions to make it better than please feel free to write something over here, let's start a conversation. If theres is something that you would like to clear up or perhaps if you are against the system I am proposing I am encouraging you to write your thoughts as constructive as possible and hopefully we can improve this idea further. Thank you all.

 

I must disagree.

 

RNG in this game is good. And i say more: DE should remove most of items from market and put them to normal misions and other instances to farm (of course, after rework). Also should make much, muuuuch more farmable stuff (new frames, weapons, type of items like Hyper, Ultima etc), and farm locations, instances, and moar enemies. Yes. Becasue this is essence of this game!

 

That is absolutely normal in MMO RNG is strong! Also, it's normal, some items can be obtained in specific places, from specific enemies, and no where else. Now you must go to specific Void missions for specific drop to collect all parts of set. And this is good.

I've played many MMO where drop was horrible low. HORRIBLE LOW. Now I have something around 500h in WF and have so may intresting things in my inventory. So in WF drop rate is kinda average. 

I don't want spend years for take all intresthing and good items, also I don't want get that things each time, or (almost) each time when I do mission. And I don't want have chance to obtained any drop from any enemy, becasue it's totaly pointelss, and kill idea of farming.

 

 

 

For me one of the the best stupidity things are primed mods, available only in Baro. They should be very rare, but possible to farm in game... Not randomly from Baro.

Edited September 7, 2015 by Ezariel

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

I must disagree.

RNG in this game is good. And i say more: DE should remove most of items from market and put them to normal misions and other instances to farm (of course, after rework). Also should make much, muuuuch more farmable stuff (new frames, weapons, type of items like Hyper, Ultima etc), and farm locations, instances, and moar enemies. Yes. Becasue this is essence of this game!

That is absolutely normal in MMO RNG is strong! Also, it's normal, some items can be obtained in specific places, from specific enemies, and no where else. Now you must go to specific Void missions for specific drop to collect all parts of set. And this is good.

I've played many MMO where drop was horrible low. HORRIBLE LOW. Now I have something around 500h in WF and have so may intresting things in my inventory. So in WF drop rate is kinda average.

I don't want spend years for take all intresthing and good items, also I don't want get that things each time, or (almost) each time when I do mission. And I don't want have chance to obtained any drop from any enemy, becasue it's totaly pointelss, and kill idea of farming.

For me one of the the best stupidity things are primed mods, available only in Baro. They should be very rare, but possible to farm in game... Not randomly from Baro.

But you are talking in a very traditional MMO sense, warframe does not contain that level of player nor is it a traditional mmo

You also have to understand that stances are the core of melee play. If it was simply better armor, than its fine because you can still cast and play. With the only difference being that you have better attributes and stats. And don't say the default stances are good because they are not, they all suck

[FelisImpurrator]

But you are talking in a very traditional MMO sense, warframe does not contain that level of player nor is it a traditional mmo

You also have to understand that stances are the core of melee play. If it was simply better armor, than its fine because you can still cast and play. With the only difference being that you have better attributes and stats. And don't say the default stances are good because they are not, they all suck

This. It's a 4-player co-op game, only with global matchmaking. So it really shouldn't be directly compared to or balanced like a traditional MMO/MMORPG.

 

I agree that playing without stances is a serious issue with melee, because the stances practically make the weapon - so trying to rank a weapon without its stance is exceedingly difficult, especially when stances used by common, lower-level weapons drop from higher-level or exotic enemies.

 

What do you think of my suggestions for the Melee "Syndicate"?

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

What do you think of my suggestions for the Melee "Syndicate"?

 

I like it, no complaints, for now . ;)

[InoxMaximus]

yep i think it is stupid too. I dont get it anyway way they create a stance no1 can use and see it.

Stances are total BS. We should not get stances through drop. We should learn it per Training in the dojo.

[Suchy1555]

That's the thread i wanted to see after 100+ runs on Tyl Regor to get Vermillion Storm and finally give up. The thing is, some mods are so rare, you cant even buy them in Trading. There should be ways to obtain things in game without grinding SPECIFICALLY for this item. When you have 1400+ hours in game (like me XD) you have too much resources and credits. And maybe let's make use of that? Why not create something that will let us buy, or even more probably - increase chance to drop something specific? Like if you could buy some trinket (dunno really what it should be) that increases drop chance for mod of your choice, that remains for a period of time? We would finally have something to do with all the credits.