Solution Against Runners Without Lowering The Ttk

[Lord_Noctus]

Were "few cases" the times you tried to kill each other? How many times kills happened when one was actively running away?

0. the times we killed each other was when i took my time to charge up my opticore and stood still becouse i lost my patience.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Lord_Noctus

[DrewHorrigan]

tl;dr

The thing people tend to ignore is that with Parkour 2.0, everyone has pretty much the same speed cap, so it is possible to catch runners. It's just a question of whether or not you can afford that (or pull that off). And seeing how Freeze got nerfed into the ground, I don't think people would take kindly to things that slow them down.

[Lord_Noctus]

Point me where i discredited you. I didnt. For some reason you got mad to something i said. I wasnt trying to pick a fight but people always get mad at me.

 

I checked your stats now. I couldnt care less how many kills you've got. You could've played religiously conclave 1.0. If you did play 2.0 and you claim to be as good as you are, this thread is just another pointless thread. Because surely a person with 40k kills wouldnt be upset about todays movement system.

 

Also its funny how you ask if i typed that after i checked your stats. Does that mean i should be scared? 

its not about how good i am in first place its about how much experience i have in conclave to know what im talking about. u said "So we dumb down the game because some people cant aim properly?" what does this sound like to you ?

i just hate this kind of arrogance. this "get good" attitude

[elele]

So you want the mechanism from Crysis 2 (getting shot prevents you from sprinting and jumping)?  This universally hated mechanism. 

 

I don't even ... this is such madness.

 

What's next? Add BF3's suppression and COD's flinching system? 

[KingTaro]

Were "few cases" the times you tried to kill each other? How many times kills happened when one was actively running away?

Well, one would always try to run when low on health. So pretty much all of our kills were.

[Shin]

its not about how good i am in first place its about how much experience i have in conclave to know what im talking about. u said "So we dumb down the game because some people cant aim properly?" what does this sound like to you ?

i just hate this kind of arrogance. this "get good" attitude

It wasnt directed at you and believe me when i say had i felt that way, i'd say it straight to your face i dont need to use different words to say "Git gud"

 

 

Also that part wasnt directed at you. You mentined newbies thanking us for that change. You seem to dont realize the idea you've presented would hurt the conclave. Weapons would need another balance check since you basically keep people in one place by slowing them. 

 

The kinda attitude i hate is people misunderstanding something and say " 1v1 me bruh".

[Lordricker]

tl;dr

The thing people tend to ignore is that with Parkour 2.0, everyone has pretty much the same speed cap, so it is possible to catch runners. It's just a question of whether or not you can afford that (or pull that off). And seeing how Freeze got nerfed into the ground, I don't think people would take kindly to things that slow them down.

 

Yea you can keep up if you just want to run next to them but if your trying to aim that is what slows you down, the runner isnt taking time to aim.

 

I dont really have a problem with people running but every time they get away they get another hp orb and im back to square one, it feels like they are rewarded for running. Maybe slower spawning of hp orbs.

[ArchXypher]

I like the idea. It's quite annoying when you're playing against someone who is constantly running between health orbs and not putting up a fight.

[Feyangol]

Running away has the big disadvantage that it costs you a lot of time - for both the chasing and running player.

Also you should consider that an Opticor is probably the worst weapon to chase a player due to its inflexibility and really low rof.

 

So no, I don't think that this is necessary.

[Shin]

I like the idea. It's quite annoying when you're playing against someone who is constantly running between health orbs and not putting up a fight.

I find it fun. Some i can chase, some i cant but i believe it makes me a better player because they are better targets. You actually feel rewarded for killing them while chasing them.

 

 

Though sometimes i cant understand how people manages to propel themselves into air. Im talking about atleast 3 times of the normal bullet jump. That makes things a little annoying.

[Feyangol]

Though sometimes i cant understand how people manages to propel themselves into air. Im talking about atleast 3 times of the normal bullet jump. That makes things a little annoying.

Jump and then bulletjump makes you jump as high as possible (probably higher than the old directional melee attack of staffs).

A normal bulletjump is like a "minijump".

And double jump+roll makes you run as fast as possible (-> even faster if you can manage to use a slide between the double jumps without to start the bulletjump animation).

 

Also you have to combine your movement tools for perfect movement. :)

Edited September 9, 2015 by Feyangol

[Lordricker]

Running away has the big disadvantage that it costs you a lot of time - for both the chasing and running player.

Also you should consider that an Opticor is probably the worst weapon to chase a player due to its inflexibility and really low rof.

 

So no, I don't think that this is necessary.

 

If it wastes time for both chaser and runner then its not really a good thing right?

 

Yes killing a runner makes you feel good but what i was saying earlier they can run off and grab a hp orb before i can even switch weapons half the time. then eventually i die because they are not going to miss everything and im not the one getting hp from running away

 

As for the bullet jump cant zephyr jump higher or something?

[Feyangol]

If it wastes time for both chaser and runner then its not really a good thing right?

 

Yes killing a runner makes you feel good but what i was saying earlier they can run off and grab a hp orb before i can even switch weapons half the time. then eventually i die because they are not going to miss everything and im not the one getting hp from running away

 

As for the bullet jump cant zephyr jump higher or something?

That's not right.

The possibility of a tactical retreat is necessary in every game, so it is a good that you are able to run away from a fight. Whether it is a good or a bad thing, that both players waste time depends on the skilllevel of them. In general it is better for the worse player, if he can manage to take a higher risk than himself away from teamfights. That's why you should consider whether it is worth it to chase a player for a longer period of time or not.

 

And it is totally your fault, if the running player kills you: you let yourself kill from a weakened player, you did not pressure him enough during the chase so that he was able to turn on you.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Feyangol

[Lord_Noctus]

no becouse

Yea you can keep up if you just want to run next to them but if your trying to aim that is what slows you down, the runner isnt taking time to aim.

also the running player have the advantage of beeing the one choosing directions randomly as he see fitting Edited September 9, 2015 by Lord_Noctus

[Shin]

Jump and then bulletjump makes you jump as high as possible (probably higher than the old directional melee attack of staffs).

Hmm it could be. I honestly cant remember anything i do in Conclaves. Its all muscle memory. I'll have to keep it in mind next time i log in. Ty for the tips.

[Lord_Noctus]

So you want the mechanism from Crysis 2 (getting shot prevents you from sprinting and jumping)?  This universally hated mechanism. 

 

I don't even ... this is such madness.

 

What's next? Add BF3's suppression and COD's flinching system? 

igo had an idea on this one too. making tanky frames slower and leave light frames fast which makes sense

Edited September 9, 2015 by Lord_Noctus

[rockscl]

igo had an idea on this one too. making tanky frames slower and leave light frames fast which makes sense

 

some one said like a month ago that each frame`s base sprint`s speed contributes different momentum to his bullet jumps, no one has checked if that is true

[-InV-igo95862]

some one said like a month ago that each frame`s base sprint`s speed contributes different momentum to his bullet jumps, no one has checked if that is true

 

I have evidence against:

 

[R4g3b0n3r]

 

New players don't parcour a lot. Meaning they don't have to worry about runners that much if they get paired against new comers as well. Skilled players, on the other hand, can land a hit on you no matter how crazy you move around. 

 

Best comment in thread. New players do not have the parkour 2.0 reflexes like we have. We zip around the map like we're speed hacking, that's what it looks like to new players. We understand the mechanics but they have yet to grasp it. I'd love to do match making revolving around Master Ranks but I mean, does mastery rank really define skill reliably as a unit of measurement?

[JonBenj]

I don't agree with a penalty to mobility due to damage. Theres no rule that says that once you confront a player, that you should not disengage until its conclusion.

 

I've never found it fustrating to catch a player who made a tactical decision to evade taking damage - those that get away, good for them.

 

I would rather a nerf to a weapon than to mobility.

[Lordricker]

I dont really want an nerf on mobility because that was one of the reasons i started this game, because you can move around like a ninja. I just dont like the idea that the tactical decision to evade damage also rewards them by letting them get more hp and just keep coming back. Seems like a kinda cowardly tactic (I use it too btw)

[Aggh]

This should be a last resort on the pvp team's part.  I do agree that running away is way too viable atm.  Running for a health drop should be a last ditch attempt to try and get back into the fight.  It should not be the strategy of choice whenever you start losing a gun fight.

 

The biggest culprits behind this isssue are tanky frames.  Running is as viable as it is because tanky frames are every bit as mobile as light frames.  There is no downside to going for the frames with the most EHP and there desperately needs to be one.

 

Double jump and bullet jump animations also need some simplifying in pvp to make aiming for headshots more viable.

 

Health drops need some looking at too, the move from 25 hp to 50 hp health drops also made running a lot more viable.

 

If all those issues don't address the problem, then taking a look at damage based speed reductions might be worth a try.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Aggh

[(PSN)Double991]

My problem with excessive running away is that it slows down the game.

 

If the game ends by time limit then that means the teams were either really even or runners wasted everyone's time.

[elele]

My problem with excessive running away is that it slows down the game.

 

Running and dueling IS the pace of the game. Just like BF3 is not "slowed down" because you need to run a hundred meters to the frontline. 

 

If fast pace is what you're looking for, there is always COD. 

[JonBenj]

Actually ive recently had a few games which has led me to amend what I think.

 

I think that frames with higher HP are an issue, as has been said prior, all frames generally are as quick as each other, but with varying survivability.

 

The games i played were a mixture of good players with Frosts, Rhinos and Ash Primes, these players were good enough to make running away somewhat annoying, when you know they are sitting at arolund 30hp.