Let's Talk Trinity

[izzatuw]

I don't think any of my frames have over 14%. Loki was my stater frame so the stats are skewed because I played him for a very long time before I could afford/get new frames.

That being said I have/can use trinity I currently run an EV build because it's broken. I used to run blessing before the nerf when it was also broken.

You used to use Trinity pre-immortality nerf implies you hardly touched her post nerf. Making whatever you're saying about the 99% DR hardly having any credibility.

I use her a lot now and have tons before.

[Kolos1001]

You used to use Trinity pre-immortality nerf implies you hardly touched her post nerf. Making whatever you're saying about the 99% DR hardly having any credibility.

I use her a lot now and have tons before.

Good for you? Again nothing to do with balance. This isn't an Epeen contest. 

 

As I've said MY main issue is with EV. Blessing would be fine if it actually costed something. 

[izzatuw]

Good for you? Again nothing to do with balance. This isn't an Epeen contest.

As I've said MY main issue is with EV. Blessing would be fine if it actually costed something.

You do realize without actually using the thing you're giving your credibility for your discussion will go down a lot, it's not even a statement it's pretty much a fact.

[Kolos1001]

You do realize without actually using the thing you're giving your credibility for your discussion will go down a lot, it's not even a statement it's pretty much a fact.

I have used it. It's just not something I use constantly because I don't enjoy it. Has nothing to do with balance as I've said over and over. 

 

You seem to be attacking my character because you can't actually refute my points. 

[izzatuw]

I have used it. It's just not something I use constantly because I don't enjoy it. Has nothing to do with balance as I've said over and over.

You seem to be attacking my character because you can't actually refute my points.

I'm gonna stop right here before it becomes an insult argument again. I've been refuting your repetitive points for a while.

[PKommander]

Personal feedback on the matter:

Well of life is the only ability which could use some tweaking as it is unrewarding when used for its own purpose.

Interactions between abilities (1-2 in particular) are perfectly fine, she is one of the too few Warframes that actually owns some scaling abilities - rather than taking that trait away from her, I'd say add it to most or all the other Warframes.

[(PSN)lydon123]

Well I'm afraid i have to disagree with Trinity being 'Game breaking'. She is described as a support frame and her EV (which seems to be the main topic here) IS a support ability and fits well with her role. EV is absolutely fine as it is. As many long term players know, to have an effective EV build (depending on the situation), it is highly desirable to have max range and a ton of power strength to counter overextended's negative power strength on your Trin. This gives little room for much else in terms of modding, sounds fairly balanced to me.

 

The point is, you still need to be in range of EV to benefit from. If you go more for a duration tank Trin then the range is going to be limited by the effects of narrow minded. There is no broken god Trin mode that can go endlessly for hours on a T4 survival. To get the most out of EV you have to sacrifice something. If you want the most out of how tanky Trin can be, you have to sacrifice other abilities effectiveness to do so.

 

With that said, there are two things that I feel could use changing.

 

1. It is very easy to bring explosive weapons to a game and put your own health down to two points and then give not only yourself but the whole team a huge damage reduction. I'm not saying I hate it, I absolutely love the damage reduction I can give my team but I would not be surprised if that aspect of blessing was nerfed. Not the damage reduction itself but the team buff, so to speak.

 

2. Trinity's first ability is pretty useless, her fourth is pretty much this ability but ten times better; get rid of it and replace it with something more useful.

 

On a personal note. I love Trinity and few can appreciate what she brings as a support frame. Any nerf to EV would hurt the frame, pretty bad.

 

Edit: Just realized I have like 300 energy pizza's which is pretty much infinite energy for any frame I put on. Having an Ev trin means I don't have to go in to the menu to put some pizza's down and I can move around anywhere I want while benefiting from Trinitys EV. So in actuality....Trinity is Domino's Employee of the month every month of every year. There is not much difference between putting down an energy pizza and getting slapped by Trinity's godly backhand. 

Edited October 12, 2015 by (PS4)lydon123

[VampirePirate]

Powers are built on the concept that they can't be used over and over and over again.

Based on the things you has said throughout the thread, I realize that you have little to  no knowledge and experience in using Trinity.   With this quote here, I now understand that you have little to no knowledge on what this game is about.   It even seems like you have not watched any devstreams either.   I know you made this thread to give feedback, but how can you do that when you lack knowledge of things?

 

There's so much i could say but I fail to see the point anymore.   You just don't get it.

 

All I can say is, solo the warframe and play all the content, and you will see how wrong you are.

[(XBOX)Skode]

Trinity needs the great defense Link provides as she has zero offense. Shes suffered enough nerfs in her time - people are just hating as for onve shes flavour of the month and thats just because she has a prime frame out now.

[EvilChaosKnight]

You know, OP, Trin is our one and only support frame as we speak. Saying that you want to nerf her support abilities while she has absolutely NOTHING else to offer (CC/damage/mobility) only shows how little you played her.

Of course support + combat units group is more than sum of its parts. Of course such composition IS powerful. That's literally game design 101. If support was as beneficial to a group as yet another fighter there'd have been NO reason to play support to begin with. If someone is willing to take on rather tedious job of helping out others let them have at least SOME fun.

[Kolos1001]

You know, OP, Trin is our one and only support frame as we speak. Saying that you want to nerf her support abilities while she has absolutely NOTHING else to offer (CC/damage/mobility) only shows how little you played her.

Of course support + combat units group is more than sum of its parts. Of course such composition IS powerful. That's literally game design 101. If support was as beneficial to a group as yet another fighter there'd have been NO reason to play support to begin with. If someone is willing to take on rather tedious job of helping out others let them have at least SOME fun.

I see banshee/nyx/mag/limbo as more of a support frame than a fighter frame. Even Nekros and oberon to some extent. Support isn't defined by healing specifically

 

Again my play preference has nothing to do with balance so please leave "Oh well i've played longer than you so you're wrong and I'm right" out of it. 

 

You can be beneficial without breaking the game. Currently she just removes the cost of everyone's abilities which breaks the game imo. 

[Attel_Malagate]

I see banshee/nyx/mag/limbo as more of a support frame than a fighter frame. Even Nekros and oberon to some extent. Support isn't defined by healing specifically

 

Again my play preference has nothing to do with balance so please leave "Oh well i've played longer than you so you're wrong and I'm right" out of it. 

 

You can be beneficial without breaking the game. Currently she just removes the cost of everyone's abilities which breaks the game imo. 

 

Nekros is useless besides farm and Oberon ... well do i really need to say how bad he is ? Trinity at least has a distinctive role in the team, and she is far from the popularity of lets say Loki, Nova, ....

 

Do we really need to nerf a warframe that is already disliked by most of the community ? after the prime acces release on top of that ? I mean, If something needed to be used as a measurement of how "OP"  something is (I dont think anything in the game really is ...), I wouldjust look at the much more used frames and weapons wich are FAR more easy to use while you as a trinity have to be constantly managing your health, energy and thoose of your teamates to get a decent result, it is almost a learning curve, while molecular prime or radial disarm or any other 4 really dont need that much organisation or syncronisation.

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

Do we really need to nerf a warframe that is already disliked by most of the community ?

 

I don't know, do we really need to ban someone who's using an infinite god mode hack? The majority of people aren't hackers, so why should we ban the few people who are hacking?

[NessTV]

Nobody noticed that to get that "gamebreaking"  (I have no idea how is it breaking the game when 99% of the time I have no problem keeping my energy up, and that 1% includes either parasitics or running with the bomb. easily overcomed with restores) energy giving Trinity is equal to sacrificing a slot in your squad? With Ember recently buffed I can't think of one mission type except raid where Trinity couldn't be replaced by Nyx/Nova/Loki/Frost/Saryn/Ember/anythingexceptatlasorrhino. Because every meaningful frame trivializes game content. Actually game content has to be trivialized to beat it, that's why DE won't nerf anything before U18. 

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

I remember the days when Link was 99% damage reduction, not 70%.

 

And Blessing gave 100% damage reduction regardless of how much health was restored to the lowest hp-having squad member.

 

Hasn't she gone through enough?

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

I remember the days when Link was 99% damage reduction, not 70%.

 

And Blessing gave 100% damage reduction regardless of how much health was restored to the lowest hp-having squad member.

 

Hasn't she gone through enough?

 

Did you ever consider that maybe, just maybe, there was a reason for removing 100% damage resistance?

[Attel_Malagate]

I don't know, do we really need to ban someone who's using an infinite god mode hack? The majority of people aren't hackers, so why should we ban the few people who are hacking?

I wouldlike to point out why i think this is not an infinite godmode, in fact, to get that 30 sweet seconds of damage reduction, you need

-An entire build

-A weapon moded for self damage if you want to use it consistantly and not once in a while

-To get close to death so you only have you energy left to keep you alive

-A good timing particulary at high level so you dont die in you vulnerable phase, because if you hapen to have less that the cost of you 4, you are dead, pure and simple

 

Have you ever seen an ability in Warframe requiering that amount of effort ? for a duration THAT low ? becaus i might as well just spam rift walk with limbo and run around for twice the amount of time you can ever get for your blessing, reviving allys, being invincible and having infinite energy and damage increase and on top of that, you are literaly choosing who to fight, isn't that "OP" same with Loki's disarm and invisibility, Valkyr's hysteria, Vauban's bastille, Nyx's absorb, Nova's molecular prime, and so on, all good warframe are build around an adventage that makes them valuable, i dont see why trinity, at the price of that amount of preparatoin would not .

 

I think we deserve that immortality phase, it only last a few seconds, it needs and entire waepon+warframe build to be casted more than once in a while, and it require you to be permanently aware of both link and blessing timers as well as your health, your energy and your allays.

 

Speaking of energy also, a nekros will give you as much as energy as a Trinity while providing you an enjoable amount of extra ressources, and at last, a 300 energy pizza is easy to craft and will just replace both Nekros ans Trinity.

 

She is a fun and versatile frame, i dont see why we would sudently and a few days after her prime release nerf her to the ground while she got nerfed age ago.

Edited October 12, 2015 by nononimous

[Kolos1001]

Nobody noticed that to get that "gamebreaking"  (I have no idea how is it breaking the game when 99% of the time I have no problem keeping my energy up, and that 1% includes either parasitics or running with the bomb. easily overcomed with restores) energy giving Trinity is equal to sacrificing a slot in your squad? With Ember recently buffed I can't think of one mission type except raid where Trinity couldn't be replaced by Nyx/Nova/Loki/Frost/Saryn/Ember/anythingexceptatlasorrhino. Because every meaningful frame trivializes game content. Actually game content has to be trivialized to beat it, that's why DE won't nerf anything before U18. 

She's used in conjunction with those so they don't have to even look at their energy bar. Frost shield with inf energy. Saryn 4 with infinite energy. Ember with inf energy. Disarm with inf energy.

 

That's why it's gamebreaking. 

 

 

I wouldlike to point out why i think this is not an infinite godmode, in fact, to get that 30 sweet seconds of damage reduction, you need

-An entire build

-A weapon moded for self damage if you want to use it consistantly and not once in a while

-To get close to death so you only have you energy left to keep you alive

-A good timing particulary at high level so you dont die in you vulnerable phase, because if you hapen to have less that the cost of you 4, you are dead, pure and simple

 

Have you ever seen an ability in Warframe requiering that amount of effort ? for a duration THAT low ? becaus i might as well just spam rift walk with limbo and run around for twice the amount of time you can ever get for your blessing, reviving allys, being invincible and having infinite energy and damage increase and on top of that, you are literaly choosing who to fight, isn't that "OP" same with Loki's disarm and invisibility, Valkyr's hysteria, Vauban's bastille, Nyx's absorb, Nova's molecular prime, and so on, all good warframe are build around an adventage that makes them valuable, i dont see why trinity, at the price of that amount of preparatoin would not .

 

I think we deserve that immortality phase, it only last a few seconds, it needs and entire waepon+warframe build to be casted more than once in a while, and it require you to be permanently aware of both link and blessing timers as well as your health, your energy and your allays.

 

Speaking of energy also, a nekros will give you as much as energy as a Trinity while providing you an enjoable amount of extra ressources, and at last, a 300 energy pizza is easy to craft and will just replace both Nekros ans Trinity.

 

She is a fun and versatile frame, i dont see why we would sudently and a few days after her prime release nerf her to the ground while she got nerfed age ago.

If it only lasted 30 seconds that would be fine. But she can recast it infinitely because of EV. That's the problem you're ignoring. 

 

It's not just 30 seconds. 

Edited October 12, 2015 by Kolos1001

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

I wouldlike to point out why i think this is not an infinite godmode, in fact, to get that 30 sweet seconds of damage reduction, you need

-An entire build

-A weapon moded for self damage if you want to use it consistantly and not once in a while

-To get close to death so you only have you energy left to keep you alive

-A good timing particulary at high level so you dont die in you vulnerable phase, because if you hapen to have less that the cost of you 4, you are dead, pure and simple

 

Have you ever seen an ability in Warframe requiering that amount of effort ? for a duration THAT low ? i dont see why trinity, at the price of that amount of preparatoin would not .

 

I think we deserve that immortality phase, it only last a few seconds, it needs and entire waepon+warframe build to be casted more than once in a while, and it require you to be permanently aware of both link and blessing timers as well as your health, your energy and your allays.

 

NONE of this is an excuse for infinite god mode. Going back to my earlier example, should a hacker be allowed to hack if they put X amount of effort into hacking?

 

If you think you "deserve" god mode, why are you even playing this game, or any combat game at all? Nothing could possibly threaten you. There's no possibility that you'll ever die. It's like reading a murder mystery novel when you already know who the killer is. As soon as you press 4, you might as well just get a message from the Lotus saying "Yeah, we all know how this is going to work out" and you automatically get a mission complete screen.

 

becaus i might as well just spam rift walk with limbo and run around for twice the amount of time you can ever get for your blessing, reviving allys, being invincible and having infinite energy and damage increase and on top of that, you are literaly choosing who to fight, isn't that "OP" same with Loki's disarm and invisibility, Valkyr's hysteria, Vauban's bastille, Nyx's absorb, Nova's molecular prime, and so on, all good warframe are build around an adventage that makes them valuable, i dont see why trinity, at the price of that amount of preparatoin would not .

 

Aside from Hysteria, which is even more broken, Blessing is the closest thing to permanent god mode. Every single one of the abilities you've listed here (with Hysteria as an exception) do not allow you to just flat out make failure impossible in the same way Blessing and Hysteria do.

 

She is a fun and versatile frame, i dont see why we would sudently and a few days after her prime release nerf her to the ground while she got nerfed age ago.

 

You seem to fundamentally misunderstand the purpose of a nerf. Allow me to educate you.

 

Both nerfs and buffs serve the exact same purpose: moving the game towards a state of balance. Nerfs only make something useless when applied poorly. If a nerf makes something useless, then it was a bad nerf, or at least could have been done much better. A good nerf decreases the power of something without making it unusable.

 

Have you read my proposed suggestions? I designed them to remove Trinity's cheese factor with as small of a power decrease as possible.

 

My suggestions:

-EV 's energy cost is now based on how much it replenishes, always costing X% more energy to cast than the total amount of energy it restores. The value of X can be decreased with efficiency mods, but it's never self-sustaining.

-EITHER Blessing's damage resistance capped at 95% like all other frames OR Blessing will no longer base it's damage resistance off of players who are at 2 health with Quick Thinking. No more infinite god mode CheeseFrame.

 

I'm open to feedback on these suggestions, as long as the goal of these suggestions is still accomplished. If you think that goal could be accomplished better, I'm willing to change this proposal.

Edited October 12, 2015 by 4G3NT_0R4NG3

[Latiac]

I say we nerf everything in the game. / sarcasm

 

Trinity is fine as she is. She's went through enough nerfs and if anything needs a buff to something like WoL.

 

[Attel_Malagate]

NONE of this is an excuse for infinite god mode. Going back to my earlier example, should a hacker be allowed to hack if they put X amount of effort into hacking?

 

If you think you "deserve" god mode, why are you even playing this game, or any combat game at all? Nothing could possibly threaten you. There's no possibility that you'll ever die. It's like reading a murder mystery novel when you already know who the killer is. As soon as you press 4, you might as well just get a message from the Lotus saying "Yeah, we all know how this is going to work out" and you automatically get a mission complete screen.

 

 

Aside from Hysteria, which is even more broken, Blessing is the closest thing to permanent god mode. Every single one of the abilities you've listed here (with Hysteria as an exception) do not allow you to just flat out make failure impossible in the same way Blessing and Hysteria do.

 

 

You seem to fundamentally misunderstand the purpose of a nerf. Allow me to educate you.

 

Both nerfs and buffs serve the exact same purpose: moving the game towards a state of balance. Nerfs only make something useless when applied poorly. If a nerf makes something useless, then it was a bad nerf, or at least could have been done much better. A good nerf decreases the power of something without making it unusable.

 

Have you read my proposed suggestions? I designed them to remove Trinity's cheese factor with as small of a power decrease as possible.

 

And then what would make her even remotely useful ?? just asking.

 

Trinity is ABOUT being able to restore your energy so you can mentain that balance between energy and health, Your buisness to call invincibility a "hack" I call that a justified reward for soemthing you made a lot of efforts to get.

 

BTW thanks for "educating" me but I'll pass on your changes, they will just destroy the frame's synergy and make her useless and unatractive, if such changes passed, I would just stick with a perma invi loki or a nova, apparently no-one is complaining about them so ...

 

-Trinity is not stealing your kills

-She helps you to get energy

-She heals you

 

Is it asking for to much to let me play the frame i like ?

 

A LOT of frames are doing far better with abilities like disarms or Mprime, anihilating the ennemy's firepower AND providing you a VERY good adventage that is NOT LIMITED BY TIME or A PRECISE SETUP AND SET OF CONDITIONS.

 

I think it is only a question of opinion, so I guess I will stop replying as none of us will give up, so I'll just say trinity is perfectly fine to me.

[Kolos1001]

And then what would make her even remotely useful ?? just asking.

 

Trinity is ABOUT being able to restore your energy so you can mentain that balance between energy and health, Your buisness to call invincibility a "hack" I call that a justified reward for soemthing you made a lot of efforts to get.

 

BTW thanks for "educating" me but I'll pass on your changes, they will just destroy the frame's synergy and make her useless and unatractive, if such changes passed, I would just stick with a perma invi loki or a nova, apparently no-one is complaining about them so ...

 

-Trinity is not stealing your kills

-She helps you to get energy

-She heals you

 

Is it asking for to much to let me play the frame i like ?

 

A LOT of frames are doing far better with abilities like disarms or Mprime, anihilating the ennemy's firepower AND providing you a VERY good adventage that is NOT LIMITED BY TIME or A PRECISE SETUP AND SET OF CONDITIONS.

 

I think it is only a question of opinion, so I guess I will stop replying as none of us will give up, so I'll just say trinity is perfectly fine to me.

You're missing the point completely. This is not about playing favorites with frames it's about game balance. 

 

It takes no effort to press 2 over and over. 

[Volinus7]

Warframe abilities are user preferences someone likes them and someone doesn't, logic is not compatible or applicable on this kind of topic anyway.

For example: X really really hates Y warframe and makes a topic like "Y should be nerfed to the ground" or "Y should be removed from the game"

while other ppl are fine with Y warframe. What should X do?

A: Insist and justify his preference on other ppl.

B: Play other warframes.

 

"Balance" has no limit you can go as far as make all units identical enemies and players to achieve "balance", again it's user preference.

Players are grineers, Enemies are grineers, Same weapons, Same Stats, TRUE BALANCE.

All players use the same warframe, same weapons, same stats, BALANCE.

[Attel_Malagate]

You're missing the point completely. This is not about playing favorites with frames it's about game balance. 

 

It takes no effort to press 2 over and over. 

Please, quit saying "balance" as a magic word, your idea of balance is not compatible with this game in my opinion, it is about space ninjas obliteration hordes of ennemies, I dont see in that context and comparing her to the average warframe how she is unbalanced, a lot of warframes are just a lot more "unbalanced" and I dont see how making her "less usefull" (not to say useless), because in the end, it is what this thread is about would do anyhting to the game "balance" as a lot of various way arounds would just give you the same results (limbo, frost, valkyr, energy restaures, ...) and most of other frames would still dominate anthing else by a mile, what would you do then, nerf thoose frames ? for what purpose ?

 

This game is meant to be fun, and players, me including, hate to see something being removed or nerfed from their hands, balance is not the main goal of a game, enjoyment is, and payers are the fuel that keep a game runing, by nerfing trinity or any other warframes, you will just make more and more poeple uncertain of what to rank up and buy as all gear wold be exposed to your 'balance".

 

A good way to balance things out IMO are the new corpus ennemies, nulifying abilities are adding up to the game chalenge as you know that you have to put thoose ennemies down in order to keep that DR you get from your abilities or that invisibility or whaterver, THIS adds chalenge to the game while still allowing you to enjoy your set of abilities, this adds difficulty and balance.

 

I also would like to remind you that with u 18, the ennemy scaling will most likely be modified, creating a whole new seting for our abilities.

[Kolos1001]

Please, quit saying "balance" as a magic word, your idea of balance is not compatible with this game in my opinion, it is about space ninjas obliteration hordes of ennemies, I dont see in that context and comparing her to the average warframe how she is unbalanced, a lot of warframes are just a lot more "unbalanced" and I dont see how making her "less usefull" (not to say useless), because in the end, it is what this thread is about would do anyhting to the game "balance" as a lot of various way arounds would just give you the same results (limbo, frost, valkyr, energy restaures, ...) and most of other frames would still dominate anthing else by a mile, what would you do then, nerf thoose frames ? for what purpose ?

 

This game is meant to be fun, and players, me including, hate to see something being removed or nerfed from their hands, balance is not the main goal of a game, enjoyment is, and payers are the fuel that keep a game runing, by nerfing trinity or any other warframes, you will just make more and more poeple uncertain of what to rank up and buy as all gear wold be exposed to your 'balance".

 

A good way to balance things out IMO are the new corpus ennemies, nulifying abilities are adding up to the game chalenge as you know that you have to put thoose ennemies down in order to keep that DR you get from your abilities or that invisibility or whaterver, THIS adds chalenge to the game while still allowing you to enjoy your set of abilities, this adds difficulty and balance.

 

I also would like to remind you that with u 18, the ennemy scaling will most likely be modified, creating a whole new seting for our abilities.

It's beta. If you are expecting everything to stay the same and never get changed you'll be extremely disappointment. 

 

As for U18. If the problem of infinite energy is getting addressed trin will be nerfed anyways so yea...sorry. 

 

Warframe abilities are user preferences someone likes them and someone doesn't, logic is not compatible or applicable on this kind of topic anyway.

For example: X really really hates Y warframe and makes a topic like "Y should be nerfed to the ground" or "Y should be removed from the game"

while other ppl are fine with Y warframe. What should X do?

A: Insist and justify his preference on other ppl.

B: Play other warframes.

 

"Balance" has no limit you can go as far as make all units identical enemies and players to achieve "balance", again it's user preference.

Players are grineers, Enemies are grineers, Same weapons, Same Stats, TRUE BALANCE.

All players use the same warframe, same weapons, same stats, BALANCE.

Hyperbole.