Charge Attacks: Major Discussions From Comments [New Potential And Major Discussion Added]

[jfhsanseiIII]

With the old chargevattacks it was all about timing. I remember the good old days with my swirling ricket hammer of doom.

[Dreadwire]

The the game phase is to fast to lethal to slow down.

There no point on using charge attack.

Unless DE want to revert to old ways. Lack of lethal enemy and you can actually wait to fully release your full charge attack.

[ShikiRen]

Naah man, you need to charge them, because you should be able to deal massive damage with a "charging time" penalty, youknowwhatI'msayin'?

 

 

 

Several buttons for combos however, are definitely needed!!!

 

 

What I meant is obviously having to hold the secondary fire button making clear from the start "I want to use a charge attack", removing the completely unneccesary first light swing while keeping the EEEEEE spam from going back to the awkward pre Melee 2.0 state.

[(PSN)L-B-H-100]

added a new subject up for discussion about charge attacks and knockdown resistance.

[(PSN)L-B-H-100]

What I really hope charge attacks have, is some form of armor ignore. Taking down level 95 Ancients is not a big deal, I want to be able to do the same to level 95 Heavy Gunners or Bombards.

true, i do think that Rebecca chose the wrong enemy to face. of course the dragon nikana is going to do massive damage to an ancient, but only from the weapons massive slash damage. im curious if the attack would be effective with enemies with more armor.

[(PSN)L-B-H-100]

added another popular comment involving Rebeccas demonstration on the dragon nikana vs a corrupted ancient.

[unknow99]

What I meant is obviously having to hold the secondary fire button making clear from the start "I want to use a charge attack", removing the completely unneccesary first light swing while keeping the EEEEEE spam from going back to the awkward pre Melee 2.0 state.

Oh ok. That first light swing is wonky to my eyes aswell... :p

[Barkano]

Melee weilding needs Armor+Movement Speed bonus otherway is being in a disventage.

 

and maybe added life steal and inhate handspring, melee= less damage + survavility primary/secondary= more damage less survavility

Edited October 21, 2015 by Barkano

[(PSN)L-B-H-100]

Melee weilding needs Armor+Movement Speed bonus otherway is being in a disventage.

 

and maybe added life steal and inhate handspring, melee= less damage + survavility primary/secondary= more damage less survavility

i would agree with you, but the concepts seems too over-powered and unbalanced.

 

i believe that every weapon type, including melee, should be effective in damage equally. though your outline does make sense, i feel as if it makes me not want to use melee anymore because it cant do as much damage.

[Beas7ie]

Perhaps the main issue is that charge attacks are not being worked into combos and the combos with holds will replace the charge attacks.

 

Add to that the combo system is downright awful melee will consist of people trying out charge attacks for a bit, realizing that most weapons aren't great with them and go back to spamming E again,

 

OR

 

Charge attacks are OP on certain weapons(like Galatine, or Orthos) and they will just spam charge attacks.

 

If DE wants to fix melee they need to get rid of the holds and pauses in combos, make the R key have separate attacks and make combos consists of combinations of E and R such as EEREEER 

 

Charge attacks should also be built into certain combos with various effects and animations depending on the weapon and combo.

[(PSN)L-B-H-100]

Perhaps the main issue is that charge attacks are not being worked into combos and the combos with holds will replace the charge attacks.

 

Add to that the combo system is downright awful melee will consist of people trying out charge attacks for a bit, realizing that most weapons aren't great with them and go back to spamming E again,

 

OR

 

Charge attacks are OP on certain weapons(like Galatine, or Orthos) and they will just spam charge attacks.

 

If DE wants to fix melee they need to get rid of the holds and pauses in combos, make the R key have separate attacks and make combos consists of combinations of E and R such as EEREEER 

 

Charge attacks should also be built into certain combos with various effects and animations depending on the weapon and combo.

 

this topic keeps showing up in the comments.

 

are you saying that when charge attacks are installed, it would be a lot harder do execute combos?

 

and also, are you saying that DE should branch out there button combos to unused, reachable, keys to fix it? especially unused ones like the R key? and replace all "hold E" combos with the "R" key?

 

if my outline is right, ill post it on the topic. if its wrong, please warn we before i do.

 

the thought is logical to think about. the same problem is on console. we don't use the reload button "square button" when in melee mode besides interaction. is it the same thing for PC?

Edited October 22, 2015 by (PS4)L-B-H-100

[(PSN)L-B-H-100]

added some organization to the topic such as subheading and separation.

 

also added a new comment discussion concerning button combos and how charge attacks would effect them in bad ways.

[(PSN)L-B-H-100]

the topic has been edited to be focused on comment based discussion involving charge attacks. the organization of the topic has been edited with the comment discussions to be on the top. my discussions have been moved toward the bottom, but can become a popular subject and moved with the comment discussion list in the future, but only if they are popular in the comments.

[(PSN)L-B-H-100]

Not to be rude but 90% of this thread is not necessary. DE already said in the stream that they will be polishing them damage wise, timing, and etc.

 

I do agree that we should have knockdown resistance during the attacks though. I also think Stalker should definitely use them too.

 

i just feel more comfort when the fan base checks up on the developers, to make sure the players they are making the game for approve before the updates release.

 

that's part of our job as a forum.

[(PSN)L-B-H-100]

The the game phase is to fast to lethal to slow down.

There no point on using charge attack.

Unless DE want to revert to old ways. Lack of lethal enemy and you can actually wait to fully release your full charge attack.

that's why i created this topic. to keep track of DE's progress and hope they take care of the mechanic in the future.

 

i want to be sure that the charge attack is an efficient combat tactic on its release.

[Brokenrune]

Question will you be able to combine charge and slide attacks before mele2.0? :D I mean it was pretty damn awsome

[(PSN)L-B-H-100]

Question will you be able to combine charge and slide attacks before mele2.0? :D I mean it was pretty damn awsome

good point, ill add it to the list.

[(PSN)L-B-H-100]

if the developers would, i would appreciate it if they moved the topic to general feedback. i think that's the best place for it now. since it is a comment based topic.

[BattledOne]

I was thinking about this for a bit and have some thoughts to add on this topic.

 

First off, one important aspect of gameplay design that charge attacks face is what reason it give for player to choose using it over normal attacks/combos. If performing combos deals more DPS than chaining charge attacks, people will just ignore this feature. But if DPS from using charge attacks overshadows normal combat, we'll just have people using that all the time.  

The way it was before melee 2.0, weapons had different values for charge attacks and some weapons were either charge or normal based. This system was quite lacking as there was no real freedom of choice. A weapon stats dictated how you should use it, not the player.

 

Now, what can DE do to give a healthy reason to use Charge Attacks? Well, for starters, they could have different gameplay applications compared to normal combat. Take whips for example. They're arguably the best AoE melee weapons but they are very much lacking in taking down strong singular threats. Whip's charge attack could be made into a strong single target strike, dealing similar DPS to weapons designed for single target.  

Other quality charge attacks could benefit from is some form of ignoring enemy armor. Not all enemies have armor to begin with, but some of the deadliest have heaps of it. When dealing with void enemies you'll want to mix things up by charging gunners and comboing crewmen.

There's also other qualities charge attacks could have:

Higher base status chance values could be a thing. One could mod for fast attacks and quick armor shredding with corrosive element on normal attacks or opt for for Blast or Fire/Toxin/Gas for a high chance to apply a aerial knockdown or a strong DoT.

Discharging combo multiplier for more damage. Could add an interesting dynamic to melee combat. Keep hitting with normal attacks that are already buffed by the combo multiplier or discharge it to quickly kill an enemy but deal less damage with normal attacks for some time.

Granting a sort of buff/debuff when used. Like Sword and Shield charge attack granting a flat armor bonus for a duration, hammers removing enemy armor, Gunblade giving a reload speed buff.

 

Charge Attacks could be used as an opportunity to expand on the system and address some issues with melee combat. Let's hope DE gives it attention it deserves and surpasses our unrealistic standards for quality :D

[Acos]

If I was going to revamp the melee system with charge attacks I would throw out channeling altogether (I'd keep the "glowing" animation you do, however, and simply have that activate during a charge attack). The channeling button would be switched back to the charge attack button, and charge attacks would require a small amount of energy to execute. Mods which activate with channeling would instead activate with charge attacks. Life Strike would add health back on a charge attack as it does now, quickening would increase your melee speed after a charge attack for a period of time, True Punishment would increase your critical hit chance after a charge attack for a period of time, etc etc etc.  

Melee combo's would incorporate charge attacks more heavily in general, often giving you the option to end or begin a combo with a charge attack that results in additional effects beyond more damage: They could knock a group of enemies over, they could send the Tenno flying forward, they could stun an enemy and make him open to finishers, or perhaps some charge attacks could even 'consume' the current melee combo to perform devastating attacks that shake the whole battlefield. The possibilities are really only limited by the creativity of the developers.

The upside of this is that utilizing two buttons rather than trying to tie every melee action into one button gives the player significantly more control to what they're doing and allows melee to feel like a fluid experience rather than an unresponsive mess, which is the biggest complaint most people have when they experience melee 2.0; they swiftly find that the combo's are difficult to execute, don't really change combat much, and that simply smashing the 'E' button is just as, if not more, effective. 

 

 

[makaloff95]

My biggest worry with charge attacks is the charge speed. I remember the old charge system and it was so slow so it was better to basically destroy my E key with spam rather than charging and risking severe damage coming at me.

[Ashnal]

I just do not get why they do not -effing put the damn charge on their new SECONDARY FIRE BUTTON. Like, why convulute the E key even more?! Especially with them not even friggin' abolishing the stupid hold-branch of combos. It just makes literally 0 sense.

Possibly because they want people to be able to use charge attack with quick melee? Reminder: R is Reload when holding a gun and there's only one key for Melee, E.

[(PSN)GazimusPrime]

I'd rather just have charge attacks back as all I ever use is x (e for pc) spam as I can never remember any combos let alone pull them off

[EmptyDevil]

After skimming some of the concerns about damage, wouldn't that be solved if Charge Attacks dealt finisher damage?

[Beas7ie]

this topic keeps showing up in the comments.

 

are you saying that when charge attacks are installed, it would be a lot harder do execute combos?

 

and also, are you saying that DE should branch out there button combos to unused, reachable, keys to fix it? especially unused ones like the R key? and replace all "hold E" combos with the "R" key?

 

if my outline is right, ill post it on the topic. if its wrong, please warn we before i do.

 

the thought is logical to think about. the same problem is on console. we don't use the reload button "square button" when in melee mode besides interaction. is it the same thing for PC?

 

 

Basically the R key should be used for melee also with separate attacks.  Perhaps heavier and slower ones.  If you ever played Dynasty or Samurai Warriors, then it would be much like that.

 

The R key would work great for this because it's literally right next to the E key and is not used in melee mode.

 

Therefore, while DE would have to make new combos and attacks using E and R, mapping the R key would be a pretty easy fix.

 

Now all combos can be combinations of E and R so combos would be like E E R E R E and so forth instead of

 

EEpauseEholdEpauseE BACK E and that clusterfuck which causes most people to just say screw it and spam E.

 

 

I'm PC master race so I have no idea what the default reload button is for console but even then I suspect it would still be a pretty easy fix to map the alternate attack button to one of the main console controller buttons.

 

I hope this helps clear things up for you.