Feedback Megathread: Saryn Revisited.

[CorvusTheHeretic]

Problem with Spores+Lash - it doesent scale past level 40 because of exponential armor growth, and becomes utterly useless later on (Tower 4 past rotation B). Basically put most of the complaints about her come down to the fact that there's no way to build her in a satisfactory way now - everything feels sub-par in the late game and she kills enemies too slow. In anything she tries she is outmatched by other frames. 

 

Now, she's a good DoT frame now, as she's supposed to be and her main troubles stem from the fact that in the late game you need to kill enemies as fast as possible, or at least prevent them from doing damage, and DoT is less useful at that than other solutions.

 

As somebody mentioned before, even Oberon performs better than Saryn now in terms of damage and debuffs, and he can also heal the whole team without any augment mods.

Edited November 7, 2015 by SinaelDOverom

[MaverickZero]

LOL

 

Broberon, my knight in shining armor. You actually outdamage Saryn and kill the same group of lvl 40 Corrupted Bombards faster and at a cheaper cost xD

 

Oberon confirmed as OP all-rounder/damage dealer. He earned the right for a deluxe skin :D

[Tostov]

All this testing made me realize that Broberon might actually now outperform Saryn - the mighty all-rounder Paladin...I like the sound of that. I'll post the results when I'm done.

The one who is more effective than both is in your avatar. (frost, 4k on activation, same range, CC freeze and addtional 1k splash when someone dies)

edit: Also, radiation damage reduces alloy armor by 75%, which is freak'in gigantic.

Speaking of which, after a lot more playing of saryn, she really needs miasma to be a better energy investment, and needs more survivability. I'd suggest doubling Miasma's base duration from 3 to 6 seconds, improving overall damage while not causing her to be more explodey. Right now, as noted, miasma is not nearly as good as an investment as Avalanche. Addtionally, forcing a stagger for half the duration would make it a bit more useful for making some breathing room.

And yeah, durabillity needs to go up. Armor buff is the best bet.

Edited November 7, 2015 by Tostov

[Weltraumfred]

Sooo ... I gave her a few tries.

 

She is more fragile than before, can't deal damage and is slow as f@ck. Spores are kinda nice though. 

 

Piece of crap. I actually mained her until now as a tank/short range nuke, with the rework ... well ... I won't.

 

Propably gonna take a break from warframe. That much salt isn't good for my blood pressure.

 

Also, no eurobucks for the prime. Which I kinda planned to buy. Because I mained her and stuff. Until now.

[Kai_Shiba]

Problem with Spores+Lash - it doesent scale past level 40 because of exponential armor growth, and becomes utterly useless later on (Tower 4 past rotation B). Basically put most of the complaints about her come down to the fact that there's no way to build her in a satisfactory way now - everything feels sub-par in the late game and she kills enemies too slow. In anything she tries she is outmatched by other frames. 

 

Now, she's a good DoT frame now, as she's supposed to be and her main troubles stem from the fact that in the late game you need to kill enemies as fast as possible, or at least prevent them from doing damage, and DoT is less useful at that than other solutions.

 

As somebody mentioned before, even Oberon performs better than Saryn now in terms of damage and debuffs, and he can also heal the whole team without any augment mods.

 

Halving the enemy health with everyone having Corrosive projection and Oberon is better? Uhhhh

[MaverickZero]

The one who is more effective than both is in your avatar. (frost, 4k on activation, same range, CC freeze and addtional 1k splash when someone dies)

edit: Also, radiation damage reduces alloy armor by 75%, which is freak'in gigantic.

Speaking of which, after a lot more playing of saryn, she really needs miasma to be a better energy investment, and needs more survivability. I'd suggest doubling Miasma's base duration from 3 to 6 seconds, improving overall damage while not causing her to be more explodey. Right now, as noted, miasma is not nearly as good as an investment as Avalanche. Addtionally, forcing a stagger for half the duration would make it a bit more useful for making some breathing room.

And yeah, durabillity needs to go up. Armor buff is the best bet.

Well since I just confirmed that Oberon performs better compared to Saryn in damage (plus CC, Heal and utility), I think future adjustments to her kit should be competitive with Oberon's kit.

 

There's one big weakness for Oberon though, Radiation is extremely weak against infested so Saryn can beat him there (but it is Ember's realm though).

Edited November 7, 2015 by MaverickZero

[Oishii]

Halving the enemy health with everyone having Corrosive projection and Oberon is better? Uhhhh

It's more oberon and saryn are on the same level. Oberon is great CC with all his radiation procs just nyx and loki do it much better. Saryn is good for essentially doubling everyone's damage but banshee and nova do it much better.

[DSMatticus]

Every thread. Every single thread. Oh my god.

 

This is very simple. Decreasing an enemy's health by 50% is identical to increasing your damage by +100%. Completely identical. Think about it. Really. Just think. Please. Please think.

 

Now, start thinking about abilities in the game that increase damage by +100% (or close enough, or more than that). Now, ask yourself; are those abilities better than spore? Are those abilities on frames with better abilities in addition to that damage buff? The answer is yes and yes. I would rather have a roar Rhino than a spore Saryn. Because roar Rhino will give me +90% damage and brings massive CC with stomp, whereas Saryn is going to spend more time setting up her damage multiplier than Rhino will and only brings crappy CC with miasma. I would rather have an mprime Nova than a spore Saryn, because mprime comes with built-in debuffs. I would sometimes even rather have a resonance Banshee than a spore Saryn, because I don't mind aiming and Banshee has incredible CC.

 

Viral procs are not be enough carry a frame! They aren't actually good enough. They're a start, but Saryn needs other abilities that are also actually good, and she does not have those, because if she actually does her big combo the results are trash and so her only real contribution to difficult content is that lonely subpar damage multiplier.

[RyanGo]

reposting my comment from a GD thread

 

Energy/Efficiency

I feel like the base problem is that the new Saryn uses a lot of energy to reach her full potential. This creates a few problems

 

Need for Constant Energy Acquisition

Currently, one of the ways around the need for energy is using Rage. However the issue with rage is that even with regenerative molt it can be dangerous for Saryn to purposely take hits. With this in mind the solution could be an hp or armor boost.

 

Lack of Modding Space

Another way around the energy issue is loading up on efficiency mods. However, this then means that a lot of mod space is taken up by these seemingly mandatory mods, when Saryn also greatly benefits from range, power strength and duration mods.

 

overall I think another good QoL change would be reducing the energy cost of her 2 and 3. Right now they each cost 50 Energy and with the destructability of Molt and the incentive to cast spore and toxic lash at the same time, they could definitely do with being cheaper

 

Miasma

Also I have yet to test this in higher levels I guess but right now it feels like I'm barely using Miasma and when I do its typically without the extra 200% that can be gleaned from her other abilities, because those other abilities are already quite effective at killing enemies by themselves.

 

The fact is that I go for Miasma in panic situations, when I want a lot of people around me to die fast, usually because of a mission objective. As a result, I don't have time to setup viral or toxic procs to maximize the damage. Nonetheless it does feel disappointing to simply cast miasma without viral or toxic procs. It's just the feeling of knowing it could be way better. It's a cool concept but in practice it could use some tweaking. 

 

I would suggest the following Miasma Changes:

Spores cast on enemies under the effect of Miasma are instantly detonated with the next damage tick, automatically adding (and spreading) the extra 100% viral bonus as well as the 100% toxic bonus (if the enemy is already under a toxic effect prior to the spore detonation) and possibly extending Miasma's duration.

Edited November 7, 2015 by RyanGo

[RyanGo]

Whips + Primed Reach all the way.

 

Agree with your post. I think she could do with a little cc element to her skills to boost survivability, maybe if the spores significantly decreased enemy accuracy or stunned them every (other?) damage tick

[taiiat]

didn't people say it was a good rework?

i didn't. spamming waves of Overpowered death.

also shaking everyone's Camera around you to make sure you get all of the Kills because nobody else can see.

 

if the Waves were fired on power Strikes in the Combo's and had more reasonable Range (40m isn't... for a Melee Ability), it could be great. stuff like that.

[Axalar]

Good to see DE gave saryn a way to get energy back like I suggested. I regret editing my original post. Now molt just needs to be more durable. Making it work like snow globe, gaining health based on the initial damage it takes, would be a good way to go. And she needs some reliable CC maybe make miasma stun more effective and last a bit longer. Also if miasma was able to proc corrosive it would have a reason to be used on it's own, because as of now it is not worth it to be used alone costing 100 energy, and help saryn scale to high level content. Than I would say she is awesome.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Axalar

[Educated_Beast]

She's always had a flower/fungus theme to her. Really if you've ever seen some forms of fungus they very much match the design of her "collar" like this one for example:

 

 

Not to mention the fact that she fights by spreading poisonous spores like some mushrooms.To further bolster this argument with regards to the flower part, you have her Hemlock alt helmet that's named after Hemlock (Obviously) which is a flowering plant and her second alternate helmet, Chlora, is also a genus (It's a taxonomical term) of flowers.

 

Very good point, I can't argue with that.  I'd have preferred mushrooms, might match the giant fluffy skirt thing...

 

 

Actually ill use OP as example of person who asks for nerfs out of spite.

 

Thats how it looks like and forums try to say everyone acts that way.

 

Huh?  I see reading comprehension is strong in you. 

 

 

 

but..shes so pretty now :D

 

Can't argue with that either. 

 

 

 

I never saw Saryn as a cat, more like a celebrity (fashionable sleeves, den heels, oh my). A celebrity that slowly degrades all who oppose her. Kinda like how most celebrities slowly degrade over time.

 

 

Not a cat?  You can't say there is no resemblance.  Not that I think it fits the theme, it does not.  I was actually excited to get a new armor, and typically love the creativity of DE and their non-linear designs that are outside the box.  This design, it just to far out there.

 

 

 

 

If ya don't like it don't use it,why bother posting about it on forum?

 

Because it is feedback and I am a customer; not a free loader.  Not saying your a free loader, I have no idea, but your question inside the feedback section is not logical. 

 

 

Also as a side point, do you think all flowers are gay, or just that one particular flower? Really I just need to know how you determine a flower's sexuality in the first place.

 

 

A man playing as a female killing hordes of clone warriors = heterosexual

 

A man playing as a female while wearing a cute flower and big skirt while killing hordes of clone warriors =/= heterosexual

 

That crosses the line :)

 

 

In all seriousness, I'm glad there are people out there that enjoy the new armor.  I'm glad its not a total flop, but I sure hope DE does not give Rhino a flower or a bunch of cute little kittens on his back.  I'm just disappointed, we can't all like the same things.  I'd like to see Sayrn in a venomous looking armor that would drive fear into the clone warriors.  I guess I had my expectations to high. 

[REXO12]

Not as a Miasma machine, but as an infectious disease spreader. I believe this is how DE intended her to work with this entire rework.

So far most people have been trying to constantly combine abilities just to use Miasma all the time again. But that isn't even the most fun and rewarding way to play her. She's incredibly fun as a melee frame, spreading viral procs everywhere.

 

 

Her damage dealing ability and overall team utility lies in Spores and Toxic Lash.

 

Go to a group of enemies, get Toxic Lash ready, cast a spore on someone, and melee them. Toxic lash pops all the spores in a large radius, spreading them to others in the group. Because you hit them with Toxic Lash, they are all now getting toxin procs every second. This spreading is made even easier with something like a Galatine or Orthos Prime with Primed Reach on.

 

These procs per second pop MORE spores. As long as enemies keep coming, the Spores can spread over a long distance, and the toxin procs keep building up on enemies that you haven't yet killed.

 

Really, go try it. I've seen Saryn in a whole new light after not trying to use Miasma all the time. The spreading of the viral procs is amazing, and not many people seem to pay much attention to what Spores and Toxic Lash can do. I think it's time to focus more on the infection aspect of Saryn, rather than Miasma. I believe it's what was in DE's mind when this rework was created.

 

The main concern with her is survivability. Life Strike and Regenerative Molt still doesn't cut it once enemies start damaging you heavily. Molt dies insanely quick and you have very little CC to keep yourself alive. Considering melee was in mind during this rework, i'm not sure why they made Saryn easier to kill. It makes no sense. Other than that, she's great fun to play when you're able to spread viral procs across the room. And as an added bonus, you're of credit to the team as a great DoT debuffer.

 

I think if we start to look at her this way, this rework becomes much more appealing. She suits her theme a lot more, is more active, and therefore fun. Once we get the lack of survivability sorted, she'll be amazing.

behold the DOTs MORE DOTS MORE DOTS NOW! K stop dots

 

 

saryn the CC  + the spores i was tired of the stay in place press 4 :v that was boring

[Gelkor]

Not a cat?  You can't say there is no resemblance.  Not that I think it fits the theme, it does not.  I was actually excited to get a new armor, and typically love the creativity of DE and their non-linear designs that are outside the box.  This design, it just to far out there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

A man playing as a female killing hordes of clone warriors = heterosexual

 

A man playing as a female while wearing a cute flower and big skirt while killing hordes of clone warriors =/= heterosexual

 

That crosses the line :)

 

[BlackCoMerc]

Saryn received her rework because a large number of people only ever used two abilities. Number 2 for survival and healing and number 4 to nuke.

 

Then countless hours of development work and testing went into making her different. 

 

Now we use number 2 for survival and healing and number 1 to nuke. 

 

Seriously, the only change is the finger you press the nuke key with, and the need to stay on the move a little more. Thematically, I actually DO like the way Spore spreads viral around the map; nice touch. Functionally...virtually nothing has changed. Aside from a 0.5 second nuke becoming a 2.5 second nuke using a different keyboard key, we are essentially right back where we started. 

Edited November 7, 2015 by BlackCoMerc

[AutumnBramble]

Saryn received her rework because a large number of people only ever used two abilities. Number 2 for survival and healing and number 4 to nuke.

 

Then countless hours of development work and testing went into making her different. 

 

Now we use number 2 for survival and healing and number 1 to nuke. 

 

Seriously, the only change is the finger you press the nuke key with, and the need to stay on the move a little more. Thematically, I actually DO like the way Spore spreads viral around the map; nice touch. Functionally...virtually nothing has changed. Aside from a 0.5 second nuke becoming a 2.5 second nuke using a different keyboard key, we are essentially right back where we started. 

 

To be fair, sometimes people push three every other minute or so! I mean, it doesn't make that huge of a difference, but they do it!

[BlackCoMerc]

I tried this extensively tonight. And honestly, it does work. 

 

Here's the good:

 

-Its flavorful in the extreme. You're a spreader of viral infection and its pretty cool to watch your infection spread across maps.

 

-The procs reduce enemy health. 

 

-The viral procs spread insanely easily

 

-You can nuke whole rooms, over an area far larger than the old Miasma could have covered

 

 

The Bad:

 

-The damage takes too long both to spread, and to kill

 

-Requiring melee. So many other frames outperform Saryn once in melee range. Being forced there puts you behind the curve. Way behind.

 

-Lack of survivability. Saryn his a Horde Mode/Endless mission frame. She needs significantly more armor.

 

-Molt lacks duration, survivability. This is twofold:

 

  -First, Saryn is so dependent on multiple skills, that she NEEDS max efficiency. This reduces Duration of Molt to a crippling degree.

 

  -Molt has neither armor nor any sort of protection; it dies too easily and too quickly. 

 

-Saryn is actually a BETTER nuke than was the case previously

 

  -Note: this is only a con if the overhaul was predicated on nukes as a bad thing.

 

 

To be completely honest, I feel as if we are back where we started. Press button to distract/heal. Press other button to nuke. Run away while enemies finish dying. The last step takes a second or two longer but its not so long to be an issue. If you were shooting for "No Nukes" you failed, plain and simple.

 

If, on the other hand, you were focusing on Nuking at the cost of high risk game play...you might have succeeded. Similar to Equinox, Saryn now has to close distance to enemies before she can activate her nukes. And this requires placing herself in danger. Old Miasma required this as well, but the immediate nuke made it far less dangerous to use, especially given its significant stun. 

[BlackCoMerc]

Its plain to see at this point we are not getting the old Miasma back. I've made my peace with that fact. That said, there are a couple of things the new Saryn needs in order to fulfill the role she is built for now. 

 

Please note: Ignoring flavor, I am working here from the assumption that Saryn was intended as a high risk/high reward nuke frame, required to close the gap to enemies in order to activate a slow spreading, no-stun nuke the use of which would place her at significant risk to knockdowns and death. Based on extensive play time, this seems the most likely intent of  the developers. 

 

So, based on that then, Saryn needs:

 

-More Armor. A significant increase in armor - on par with perhaps Atlas - would make closing with enemies more reasonable, while retaining risk.

 

-Zero Duration Molt. Molt should have hit points like Frost Dome. Forcing Duration for one ability is dragging down the kit. 

 

-Recasting Molt causes the old one to explode, spreading spores or exploding existing ones nearby.

 

-Toxic Lash toggle. Again, Saryn cannot afford Duration. She NEEDS to cast multiple abilities frequently. Max Efficiency is a requirement.

 

-Miasma needs improvement. With the amount of damage Spores can spread round a map, Miasma is now the forgotten almost-nuke. So:

 

  -When cast, Miasma Procs corrosive in a radius around Saryn. Corrosive damage equal to 25% of Miasma's viral damage. Proc reduces armor.

 

   -Miasma then creates a Viral cloud that lingers in the area cast, reducing in size over time.

 

   -Enemies who wander into the cloud suffer a viral proc and gain spores that behave identical to those spread by Saryn's other abilities.

 

 

Right now Miasma is in the same place Saryn's number 1 was a week ago. Forgotten and really not very useful. It really does need a change to be at least relevant to her kit. Given its high cost and low damage, coupled with the manner in which her number 1 can simple nuke rooms while you run away, little reason exists to use Miasma at present. 

Edited November 7, 2015 by BlackCoMerc

[kajiss1]

well i test it for a while with diferent builds and:

 

her first is pretty nice, molt is good with the Aum but to fragile, her 3 i give the shoot i used ortos max prime range but still feel it to risky like "what i do shoot that lvl 80 bombar with my vay-hek or run cast spore mele him and cast miasma.... *use spore shoot the thing in the face" 

and miasma i give it a try is good wen you build the set up (thing that is in real game play is not that easy or fast) out of that feel it kinda lackluster for a ult

in the end i think her best thing atm is regenerative molt spore combo and use rarely 3 or 4 , and she eat a loot of energy 

 

(BTW english is not my native don`t kill me)

Edited November 7, 2015 by kajiss1

[00zau]

Miasma should be corrosive damage, with a garunteed proc each tick. Better damage type, and utility by stripping massive amounts of armor.

 

Either Miasma or Toxic Lash should have more CC added. Either Lash should make your melee attacks stagger on every hit, or Miasma should stagger enemies for it's FULL duration.

[akira_him]

I wanted to write this in hot topic but hot topic says I should write here

 

This rework intended to change she from a one-trick pony of miasma to something else(whatever it is doesn't matter)

ends up turning her into an one-trick pony of spore, 

I was wrong about everything depends on miasma to do something, it is everything depends on spore

 

Spore as a #1 now is a decent ability, I think I will be too much if I ask for slow effect on enemies

 

Molt wasn't a good skill without an augment in the past, nothing changed after the revisit, in fact worst because the effective HP of her was nerfed

even with the augment, the molt still doesn't last long enough under enemy fire, which made spamming it with maxed efficiency more effective to recover HP, i.e. duration means nothing, it needs snow globe treatment

 

Toxic lash force you to go melee, expose you in danger without protection and significant results, the block bonus only reduce frontal damage when most of the time you are surrounded in all direction, which practically useless, provided that damage buff is remotely useless in high levels,it needs to be "overheat" of Saryn, like 50% damage reduction default (capped like 90%) in all direction like shatter shield does, for both shooting and melee

 

Miasma is no longer a nuke, which is fine, but a DoT of 3 seconds base is laughable, provided that the damage isn't that impressive

Since is now not a nuke, it should have 20m base range, 6s base duration,

And we all know how damage is irrelevant in high levels due to armor, it also needs to debuff enemies as it did in the past (and we need even more since it is now not a nuke), like armor removal and reducing enemies' damage

 

edited: maybe a stationary aura like chaos sphere for miasma?

Edited November 7, 2015 by akira_him

[(PSN)OMGITSNUKERXD]

Where is the " Its Complicated" option?

My bad.I will next time I decide to make a poll.

[Cubewano]

she's funner to play certainly, but her usefulness has definitely declined. she deals less damage for much more energy, has become more frail thanks to the stat changes, and is now locked into requiring you to basically mod for all stats to keep even mildly afloat. 

Edited November 7, 2015 by Cubewano

[(XBOX)SixPathsOfHate]

Guess DE needs to have another "rework" for saryn just for her miasma, and no, I wont let it go. Make every ability worth using or dnt make it at all!

You made 1 worth using and 2 is almost there.

 

Proposed changes and hopeful ideas for a new 4?

 

If DE truly wants SARYN to be a DoT frame, make her ult a toggle (makes use of all that damned duration im forced to add on), that staggers enemies with viral procs and gives corrosive procs increases the damage of existing procs and extends the duration infinitely as long as they are withing the cloud.  

 

And for the love of lotus, please let go of that wretched 3, you wanna make a melee caster but nerf her health and add a minuscule buff to her shields?!  Either make it buff all weapons and give it the passive of the new miasma, (100% damage increase for 1 toxic proc and 200% for 2 toxic proc)

 

But hey, this will probably be buried under the countless other posts about what can be improved.