Feedback Megathread: Saryn Revisited.

[Vardog]

The energy restore is very nice actually. I can easily sustain my energy with a maxed Blind Rage and no efficiency mods.

 That's a big, fat lie and you know it.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Vardog

[mcryseria]

The energy restore is very nice actually. I can easily sustain my energy with a maxed Blind Rage and no efficiency mods. Now, why did they increase the Molt duration tho...

 

Having to melee an enemy just to restore energy won't really work at high level missions as she still severely lacks survivability and her kit does not really bode well for melee centric playstyle. That increase in molt duration is irrelevant when it will just get destroyed instantly, people are asking for snow globe treatment because that would easily solve this issue. Again Saryn lacks real survivability, her power ranges are too short, 20 should be the base for each of her powers and power cost are still too high and should be reduced 25/25/50/75 respectively for each of her powers.

Edited November 9, 2015 by mcryseria

[TuxedoMask00]

Saryn's molt definitely needs the snowglobe treatment. In addition to that why not make molt a damage battery for Miasma all the damage molt soaks up should be added to miasma (this would be reset when you cast another molt) With the 4 second invulnerability increasing the health molt has this could make miasma relevant in high level gameplay after that she'd probably be 100% fixed or as fixed as she's going to get

[Akira101]

After seeing the latest hotfix of 17.10.3. I cant help but feel that its not enough to make Saryn viable end game. Hence I would like to propose more buffs to Saryn as follows:

 

- Reduce cost of spores from base 25 to 10. Enemies dying with spores in effect would give back 5 energy.

- Molt. I feel this needs to be as durable as Frost Snow Globe (its about durability in endgame e.g T4 Surv 40 mins+, not duration). Suggest to remove duration as well.

- Toxic Lash - Rather than dmg reduction when blocking. Why not just add a general reduction in dmg like 75%?

- Miasma: Change dmg type to Corrosive. Double its base duration from 3 seconds to 6 seconds.

 

The above is not really perfect but could be a step in the right direction.

[DiabolusUrsus]

I don't get the metalic feel from it too, some color combinations possibly, but it's all a weird mix of what energy color you use, and then what colors you mix because she has a lot of interesting color interactions where the two colors meet and the energy applies.

 

I guess you can get a metalic look with certain combinations, but you can  also get some more natural textures if you play around.

 

Well, I've had the most success with reds/greens for a nice tropical-ish venomous look and pale pinks and purples that I normally use for Saryn mixed up for the different color slots. It reduces it a bit, but she still looks like she's got a weird insect carapace look going on from the PBR shine. Sure, insectoid exoskeleton doesn't really look out of place on Saryn, but it just looks bad on floppy petals in my opinion. 

 

Head? Fine. Torso? Fine. 

 

On the shoulder and skirt petals? Not so much. :\ 

 

It just bothers me that it limits my palette options if I want to avoid the metallic look being thrown in my face. 

[Weltraumfred]

No, it's not enough at all.

 

It's a step in the right direction, though, so I'll wait and see if the coming days bring more tweaks and buffs.

 

And, well, devs also have a right to have their weekends off.

[viamont]

OK guys you have taken a few good steps in the right direction but theres still tweaks needed:

 

-------------------------Stats-------------------------

 

You want her to be a melee caster so she NEEDS her to be up to the task

 

HP: Rise up to pre rework levels (150)

Armor: 225 (she needs the armor to go in safetly)

 

-----------------------Powers-------------------------

 

Spores: THANKS for reducing the cost on molt, thats absolutly FANTASTIC.

 

Molt: i dont hate the duration extension...but the thing its not what this power needs. Molt NEEDS THIS:

 

Invulnerability when cast ( 0/1/2/3 seconds per rank), This will make it usefull for HIGH rank levels while helping saryn charge that extra damage boost it gives when Miasma its cast up close, it doesnt need more time, I REPEAT it DOESNT need extra duration.

Slight Range boost, it really needs it from courent one to be 5/8/12/15

 

Toxic lash: I tink the energy boost per kill its an interesting change, it invites people to be up close and thats a great thing but it still needs some little extra QoL changes.

 

Change the "damage reduction" from parry to ALWAYS active, this will make people feel safer on close combat and allows them to be more active, make it to be like this:  15/20/25/30% afected by power strenght.

 

I tink the recastable part its not bad per se, BUT if you want to go this way why not instead make it a toggle? that way people will keep it up more often, with the active damage recuction people will feel (again) more compeled to go up close.

 

Miasma: Just like with spores make it so when cast near a molt the energy cost its reduced, belive me people this will make the players feel less constrained about energy cost and much more willing to go all out with her combos.

 

Give her back her corrosive procc chance, maybe a  25% per tick, this will complete her "debuffer" kit you want her to work with. Make it so when an enemy has a toxin and or viral procc the stun duration its increased to +1 per procc (this meens a basic miasma will give the regular stun while each procc adds a +1)

 

I hope you guys consider this changes, as a main Saryn user i can tell you i would love you lots for them

[The_Mustachio]

Well, I've had the most success with reds/greens for a nice tropical-ish venomous look and pale pinks and purples that I normally use for Saryn mixed up for the different color slots. It reduces it a bit, but she still looks like she's got a weird insect carapace look going on from the PBR shine. Sure, insectoid exoskeleton doesn't really look out of place on Saryn, but it just looks bad on floppy petals in my opinion. 

 

Head? Fine. Torso? Fine. 

 

On the shoulder and skirt petals? Not so much. :\ 

 

It just bothers me that it limits my palette options if I want to avoid the metallic look being thrown in my face. 

 

I'm going to apologize in advance for adding fuel to an already small flame war in this thread but, Ba Ha Ha

[Sashmaul]

Ok I can understand the concept for Saryn just not the execution however. 

 

With lash being recastable why not just make it a toggle ability and have done with it. or why not give it a toxic aura not one that procs toxic, but one that stuns/staggers an enemy that comes within a certain range. This will help with melee suvivability and give some sort of CC.

 

Now the added duration on Molt. Just Why what good would this do to an ability that cant last 2 seconds in higher levels this makes no sense at all. I would agree with all the other posts that this needs the frost Globe treatment. You could however just make it duration based without health at a severely reduced duration though. I however dont think that the latter would ever be implemented.

[AgentScarlet]

70% of all statistics are made up on the spot :)

Come on, flower power frame, of course I'm going for bizarre! Based on the points you brought up, I take it that you agree with me, that this is a skin designed for the female player base.

Good points were brought up in this thread and I have to admit I had not considered. However, the majority of the players are most certainly male and adding a flower / giant loose skirt doesn't exactly fall into the category of guys googling over their electric warframe either.

The awesome look combining in a serpent or scorpion would have fit the theme as well (poison not mushroom), certainly looked more war-like, and IMO would have sold more skins. If there was any time to create an alternate theme from mushroom to venom, it's when your adjusting the skills.

I certainly would have bought one. I was just disappointed because I do play Saryn and this is not what I imagined DE would do. All of their designs have been different, but tough. Instead I got an arguably weaker (yet more fun) skill set and sweet (as in girl scout and cute babies) skin.

This just looks like an April fools joke. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad some people enjoy it. I'll just stick with my immortal skin and this will be the first skin I do not buy (not even as a collector purchase).

Call me what you will (your probably right), but I hope DE makes another skin for Saryn in the future for your sterotypical heterosexual male.

Off-topic here: I'm older than most gamers, and when I was growing up, girls typically stayed away from games all together. Sure there were some exceptions but the games played were typically different as well (i.e. not war games). Now we have skilled female MMA fighters, women working traditional men's jobs, and boys nowadays are so tied in electronically maybe that's the only way to contact their man...

Anyhow, if you had to make up a statistic on the spot, in your opinion, how many women are playing warfame?

 

I'm not convinced that the skin was mainly intended for the female userbase, so much as a combination of female users and a similar portion of male users who do not self-insert and simply like the aesthetic. And, perhaps incidentally, a small niche market of hetero dudes who are into stereotypical "girly girls" and want to ogle their flowery, puffy-skirted waifu-frame.

 

I can't make assumptions about randoms in PUGs/strangers on the forums with gender-neutral usernames, but half of the warframe players I know are female. If male players are a majority (which I'm not even certain they are), I doubt it's by a very large margin. As far as I can tell, video games are no longer predominantly played by men, and haven't been for years - most people in my generation grew up playing video games, regardless of gender. The "they're doing it to get close to their man" suggestion is absurd because most of us got into it long before we were old enough to date, and continue playing whether we're single or in a relationship.

 

I don't get the metalic feel from it too, some color combinations possibly, but it's all a weird mix of what energy color you use, and then what colors you mix because she has a lot of interesting color interactions where the two colors meet and the energy applies.

 

I guess you can get a metalic look with certain combinations, but you can  also get some more natural textures if you play around.

 

I must be doing it wrong, because I can't get it to not look metallic - which I don't mind, but it's not what you'd expect from a flower theme. My main gripe is that the energy color covers so much of the frame, because colors that look good on the frame tend not to look so good for Saryn's power visual effects.

[Epicagemo]

One QOL change that could be implemented for Molt:

 

Having the ability to detonate the Molt by pressing 2 instead of what we have now which is: recast Molt (loss of energy, and maybe; what if I didn't want a molt?)

 

Once that applies^^, maybe make Miasma not kill the Molt automatically.

[Machayna]

Now the added duration on Molt. Just Why what good would this do to an ability that cant last 2 seconds in higher levels this makes no sense at all. I would agree with all the other posts that this needs the frost Globe treatment. You could however just make it duration based without health at a severely reduced duration though. I however dont think that the latter would ever be implemented.

I'm not sure either but I THINK it's because of that damage multiplier you get when molt is damaged.  If molt is tankier it will take longer to achieve the same multipliers.  That being said though I don't think there are many people who are sitting there watching their molt's health for optimal damage multiplier.  If they made it more like nyx absorb I think it would work out even better.  Keep the same sort of functionality it has but return it's original duration and turn it into an invincible damage storing container.  When the timer runs out it detonates or if you cast miasma it detonates releasing the stored damage.    From there I can see all kinds of applications. Just a thought.   Might make the skill too overpowered though.  Not sure.

[DelialFallen]

Hmm.

 

The hotfixes make me think DE doesn't intend to make Saryn's toolkit reliable passed 40 minutes/40 waves of T4.    Outside of endless situations, the buff to Molt's duration will prove useful.  As for the changes to Toxic Lash, the energy return mechanic is not really useful in group content or lower level soloing, since teammates and sentinels will more often than not kill the Spored enemies before you can reliably melee them.  I can see Toxic Lash being useful in later gameplay when Molt can no longer survive long enough to reliably spread Spore and enemies are resilient enough to not die too quickly from teammates and companions.

 

The changes are, uh, 'interesting' to say the least.  I'm not convinced they are actually helpful, or help create a diverse playstyle so much as pigeonholing Saryn into a stricter set of parameters than other warframes.  Yet a buff is a buff, I suppose.

 

Edit:

 

I find myself wondering what players new to the game and/or new to Saryn are supposed to do with her though.  In my opinion, the toolkit, in its present iteration, is not flexible enough to be tackled from a variety of angles in a variety of situations.  That's a pretty serious oversight on DE's part.  Just a thought.

Edited November 9, 2015 by DelialFallen

[tocorro]

Some small tweaks :

 

- Spores - members of the team should be able to detonate them to spread spores

 

- Toxic Lash - should apply to every weapon, not just melee

Saryns effective HP got a drop from ~1400 to ~1200, so she is even less Tanky now,

yet the toolkit pretty much forces us to play her as melee frame (or at least take toxin weapon with high status)

 

- Miasma - small CC effect - whatever lives after casting sufferes from poisoning -> effectively reducing accuraccy (- 60% ?)

Edited November 9, 2015 by tocorro

[Educated_Beast]

I'm male. I like flower aesthetics. My only gripe with the Saryn skin is that it's metallic, which to me clashes with the whole "flower" motif. That is relevant to neither my sexual orientation nor my masculinity.

Yet you feel the need to declare you are male. Look I'm not trying to offend anyone, your sexual orientation is your own business. I acknowledge your opinion is just as valid as mine.

I can't make assumptions about randoms in PUGs/strangers on the forums with gender-neutral usernames, but half of the warframe players I know are female. If male players are a majority (which I'm not even certain they are), I doubt it's by a very large margin. As far as I can tell, video games are no longer predominantly played by men, and haven't been for years - most people in my generation grew up playing video games, regardless of gender. The "they're doing it to get close to their man" suggestion is absurd because most of us got into it long before we were old enough to date, and continue playing whether we're single or in a relationship.

No kidding, half? In the 2 years I've been playing, I've ran into two, at least in voice chat. One was a clan mates girlfriend telling him to get off very angrily. Kind of sad, he was whispering so she wouldn't wake up :)

I'm sure there are more but I think it's safe to say 50% is high. So somewhere between 3% to 50% is our combined SWAG.

I also wouldn't call it absurd, guys do tons of things they dislike (or pretend to not do) in order to get close to girls. Watching chick flicks, going shopping, cleaning the house, holding in flatulence, etc. My wife will endure things for me as well like watching sports, going to gun range, video games (she hates em), etc.

We call it compromise, not absurd. Forgive my ignorance, not trying to offend anyone with my old fashion ways. I don't know any real life examples, all my friends husbands, co-workers, etc. hate video games. You could even say repulsed. None of my teenage nieces or cousins care for games either. I'm genuinely intrigued by this news.

Now I'm just trying to be curious, is it possible to impress a girl nowadays with mad video game skills?

[Exodess]

Seriously DE, is there a clause somewhere that says "I have to come up with an original solution every time I encounter a problem, no matter how inane or functionally obtuse it may be?"

 

Here we have a thread with nearly 100 pages of great, easy-to-implement solutions. Yet, despite this, you chose to complicate Saryn even more than before by adding beneficial mechanics that work against her remaining strengths and fix none of the scaling issues or weaknesses. 

Edited November 10, 2015 by Exodess

[The_Mustachio]

I'm just going to put these right here:

 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/18/52-percent-people-playing-games-women-industry-doesnt-know

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2014/10/17/more-women-play-video-games-than-boys-and-other-surprising-facts-lost-in-the-mess-of-gamergate/

 

http://www.pcgamer.com/researchers-find-that-female-pc-gamers-outnumber-males/

[Skadedyr]

Posts like this highlight how bad the grind is in this game.  People are so afraid that they will lose rewards from failing missions that they feel they absolutely NEED the insurance provided by overpowered and exploitable options.  

 

It has nothing to do with the grind. I'm playing Warframe for fun and the old Saryn did that for me (so is the new one, but she hasn't reached that same level yet).

 

I really don't get people like you... 

[RealPandemonium]

It has nothing to do with the grind. I'm playing Warframe for fun and the old Saryn did that for me (so is the new one, but she hasn't reached that same level yet).

 

I really don't get people like you... 

You said that you used Miasma as insurance.  So if you weren't afraid of losing rewards, then you were afraid of being able to lose, period?  I thought the whole point of not using THE BEST BUILD is having fun because you're being challenged.  What's the point of a challenge if the training wheels are still on?

[Necr0Ra1se]

I started to think, after this hotfix, De just don't know what to do with Saryn and what role give her in the squad..Her rework feels so unfinished.

[DSpite]

I'm so happy the rework (nuke nerf, change, whatever you wanna call it) came with the new armor. Not because I like it, but because I hate the armor with a passion. The armor is so ugly I'm not even tempted to make the new skills work and re-forma for duration.

I'm sure the Saryn can still kill, but you cant compare these changes with the frost or excal rework. Those are fun changes that were an obvious improvement, not a side grade. I wouldn't even say a side grade, that would imply Saryn still have a unique niche. Now it's just another frame with nothing outstanding and no reason to play it, unless your into flowers...

Saryn was one of my go-to frames when I wanted to nuke an area and quickly finish a mission (like an invasion). I was excited to get a rework because I thought the skills would be different. They are all the same except it takes a lot longer to kill. It's a bad cc frame, bad nuke frame, and the increased damage you get takes to long to go into effect. DOT does not belong in warframe. Anyhow, I'm not here to argue about the skills, I'm sure some people will enjoy the frame; my feedback is the ugly armor.

I always though sayrn looked like a cat and was excited to get a new armor in line with the theme. I like the immortal skin, but I was thinking we were going to get something along the lines of a serpent or scorpion, but we get a very large flower...

This coming from a guy that bought almost all the skins, day of dead, immortals, excal, valk, etc. and was excited to see a rework on part with previous frame alterations. These just feel rushed. Why make a skin for the 3-5% woman population in this game?

Of all the women that went into battle throughout history along side men, did any of them wear giant flowers?

No, because it's absurd. Sayrn is just going to go on ice for awhile and hang with the Kubrows.

TLDR: DE - you would have to pay me plat to wear this garbage. This is the worst art design I've seen come out of this game. You should have at least made the flower a separate piece of armor like volt, frost, mag, etc.

Come on, not even tribes that used flowers to make poison wore the flowers to battle.

TLDR 2: Disappointed and the new skills adequately match the flower.

 

* You state you won't play a Frame because you hate an OPTIONAL thing you won't even buy.

* She never "looked like a cat".

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia

 

She has always looked like a Submarine. Or was that a Scarecrow? Maybe a giant Praying Mantis?

 

 

* Stating "garbage" and  "worst art design" is NOT feedback, and you should really read up the Guidelines.

 

1) R E S P E C T – Let’s respect each-other and have fun. Respecting people means not insulting anyone’s race, religion, sexual orientation, skill-level or any other possible way to make someone feel uncomfortable in the Warframe community.

 

1b) DEVELOPER BASHING – let’s face it, we aren’t perfect, we know this – we’re humans making a game. We work hard and read the forums with earnest care, so any insults will be cleaned up on the spot and not tolerated. We're not your punching bag on our Forums. Constructive feedback is encouraged and key to us improving the game.

 

"Oh no! My female Frame looks extra female! Run away!"

 

Seriously? In a GAME? Wow.

Edited November 9, 2015 by DSpite

[Educated_Beast]

I'm just going to put these right here:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/18/52-percent-people-playing-games-women-industry-doesnt-know

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2014/10/17/more-women-play-video-games-than-boys-and-other-surprising-facts-lost-in-the-mess-of-gamergate/

http://www.pcgamer.com/researchers-find-that-female-pc-gamers-outnumber-males/

Very interesting. I'm not surprised by the smart phone data, I am by PC games. It just doesn't match the personal experiences of anyone I know. But hey, I can admit to being wrong and learning something new.

I guess that's the reason why we now have a flower power warframe. It's a business after all.

The only thing I would add then is this, if warframe already has a 50% woman population, why drastically change the art work and grim feel the game has?

.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Educated_Beast

[akira_him]

Time is a precious real-life resource, far more precious than any virtual resource within the game; that's the reason people factory farm in the first place, and insurance is undoubtedly important when you've sunk an hour in one mission.

isn't this exactly the point? if it is like impossible to fail in the first 30waves, why I have to waste time on that.

this just show how bad the level and reward system is badly designed which encourage people to be factories

still nothing about insurance, since if you don't get what you wanted, you won't end up an hour in a mission, those extra reward are next to worthless and people probably won't feel anything if they lose those

[YasaiTsume]

Thing about reworked Saryn is, instead of giving Saryn a huge hammer to Miasma by totally replacing it or changing how it works, they decided to give her a tweaked kit reminiscence of her old efficiency, but making it highly inefficient. 

They even went as far to buff her energy pool and a skill set based on chain casting, YET STILL KEEP TOXIC LASH

139y258yt3wugwfguwrfugqeq!?!?!!?

 

I was seriously hoping that they revamped her to be full on CqC to midrange powerhouse but ultimately they just made her a shadow of her former self.

[achromos]

You said that you used Miasma as insurance.  So if you weren't afraid of losing rewards, then you were afraid of being able to lose, period?  I thought the whole point of not using THE BEST BUILD is having fun because you're being challenged.  What's the point of a challenge if the training wheels are still on?

 

You don't get it RealPandemonium,  people like that want full on dynasty warriors.  People like that want to just mindlessly dominate enemies without ever giving them a ability to fight back moderately.  People like that think challange equates to time-spent in a mission.  It's a challenge for them to spend time actually paying attention to the game, so when you put the breaks on their party train they get all flustered.

 

It's hard for people like that to re-adjust and they end up complaining if something isn't instant gratification.  People like this are very unlikely to change and perceive challenge rather differently then normal people.

 

Challenge is when you have a chance of losing, Challenge is a obstacle, to overcome.  But as I said, these people don't want obstacles, they just want to get their mindless grind done with... so they can continue to mindlessly grind with their next weapons that they will sit in a corner and mindlessly grind with to level them up to be more efficient at mindlessly grinding... I don't see the fun in that, really, but to each their own lol.