Ember Prime Nerf Please. Specifically, World On Fire.

[Djolltax]

I'm sick and tired of logging on to games expecting to have fun, and instead being greeted by 1 or 2 Ember 'speedrunners'. You know the ones I mean. They activate World on Fire and run across the map, insta-killing anything that comes within 50 metres of them, without actually putting any effort or skill into it. It's not fair on the rest of us. Now Ember is the 'go to press 4 to win' frame for Draco and such, what with the Mesa and Saryn reworks. I'm hoping you can rework Ember's 4th to better suit her concept, as you did with Saryn. Now I have no choice but to recommend the following procedures:

 

1. Significantly lower the damage done by World on Fire. Similar to Saryn's 4th, the damage on this is just off the scale, and totally unfair.

 

2. Significantly decrease the range of World on Fire. I've seen full range builds reach across maps with the right mods.

 

3. Make airborne targets able to avoid World on Fire (ospreys and such). This would help to prevent speedrunning extermination missions.

 

4 (Only a recommendation). Decrease Ember's speed when using World on Fire. This will really help with preventing speedrunning too.

 

5 (Positive!). Add a semi-powerful and instant fire proc to anyone caught in World on Fire. I'm not going to plan a total nerfing. I think a guaranteed fire proc would fit in well here.

 

Any questions, recommendations, or opinions? Put them all in the comments below, and happy hunting Tenno.

 

[EDIT]

 

Not necessarily lower damage overall. Just better scaling, so much less damage on lower level missions.

 

Also, a bigger energy drain.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Djolltax

[DeMonkey]

 

I'm sure DE can tweak the ability to be somewhat more interactive without it being considered a nerf. I was against toggable WoF for this exact reason from the very beginning when the threads popped up asking for it.

[Anatolius]

Draco is not a good representation of character's worth.

If anything she needs better scaling because without accelerant she just has the CC.

Armor is her downfall like many things

[TychusMechanicus]

Thanks, but no.

 

EDIT: to be more on the point: Any frame can roflstomp low levels. I can speedrun with a booben by only throwing teslas everywhere, as volt spamming shock, etc. You get the theme. You can do the same with Ash if you want the 4 back in "Press 4 to win".

Ember needs a tweak here and there, especially in high levels, but generally she was always the fire damage frame with a dash of fire and some damage stacked with some more direct damage as her abilities. Making her not do damage is pretty much taking away her abilities.

Edited November 20, 2015 by TychusMechanicus

[Cyborg-Rox]

The removed cap on WoF was the one thing that finally made Ember good again. Frankly I haven't seen many Embers doing this you're describing, though I've tried it myself, and it doesn't do nearly enough damage for Draco-level enemies.

 

If it turns out to be a big deal, for a nerf I'd suggest a bit smaller range. This would encourage using Overextended, which should greatly reduce your damage. That, coupled with needed duration affecting the drain, should be a decent nerf.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Cyborg-Rox

[EmptyDevil]

Terrible suggestions. WoF doesn't need a nerf either, it's only OP in low level missions and on Infested without a healer. Pretty sure Saryn does more damage as well.

 

You're exaggerating and lying. Ember CAN'T be modded for 50 meters; the max range is like 35 meters IIRC. The ability only hits a set number of enemies per explosion as well, so we're definitely not hitting everything. We also need to spam Accelerant on high level enemies for WoF to not tickle them. Her energy pool sinks fast if you don't pick up orbs or use a syndicate proc.

Edited November 20, 2015 by EmptyDevil

[Anubias]

Well ember is powerfull right now no argument with that but after being a trash frame for so long now ppl want to nerf her ?. I not gonna mention to build her like you described needs r10 gold and primed mods so if she will be useless with those mods there will be 2 problems.

 

1. Ember will be not worth getting/playing as

2. No one will bother with Primed/Rare 10 mods because it will be nerfed.

 

It goes without a doubt that ember has became a new nuker since saryn rework and as for now she has synergy between her powers but she is so powerfull against low level enemies. And if DE's gonna do what you suggest there always be other speed runners. Volts, Excals, Rhinos Build for stomp even limbo in few occasions.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Anubias

[tocorro]

So what you propose is to get rid of all WF nukers ?

Ember is one of the last now. Well probably she is the last one.

WoF is not that great especially on higher levels. It's good only with Fire quake augment, cause of the CC.

Personally I don't want to all Nukers to vanish from WF. Maybe because I've played WF for so many hours.

There are things I just want to do quick, and Ember was my go-to for that.

Leave the dmg (it's not that good, maybe just on some low-mid level stuff), leave the range.

Only thing that would make some sense is to increase energy consumption.

[Homer87]

I wouldn't play in those matches, but that's just me. I'm also not sure how it isn't fair for you that someone else uses their ability and makes the match go through that much more smoothly, unless you're counting kills at the end of the match. We just got Ember out of the more underused frames, to being a viable frame for most levels.

[Djolltax]

DeMonkey that post reminds me of another nerf-section I wanted to make. I felt the same.

[PiggyB]

She doesnt need a rework just because you dont like her. There is nothing wrong about her. Besides, I have yet to see her one shot something that actually high level without accelerant. You must've been on low to mid tier missions and let's face it. Most Warframes can one shot at those levels.

[Multicom-EN-]

1. Significantly lower the damage done by World on Fire. Similar to Saryn's 4th, the damage on this is just off the scale, and totally unfair.

 

2. Significantly decrease the range of World on Fire. I've seen full range builds reach across maps with the right mods.

 

 

....What the hell? The damage is minimal. Only if you use Accelerant it will deal nice damage. 

Lower the range? Reaching Across the map?....IT HAS A BASE RANGE OF 15 METERS!!!

[(PSN)OMGITSNUKERXD]

Ember is good now.I don't see a need to nerf her.I mean,we've been crying out for this buff for a very long time.Im not ready to let it go.

[Djolltax]

I get that people wanted to buff her. For a while I did. But with a toggled 4th and damage centred abilities rather than fire? No thanks.

[NN13]

WoF does not need a nerf. It needs a total overhaul of the mechanism. And by overhaul, I am NOT referring to Miasma-type overhaul.

 

As of now, Ember is more 'problematic' than the pre-nerf Miasma. At least, Miasma needed you to get to the middle of a group and then, cast the ability.

WoF is just press 4 once and run around.

 

If pre-nerf Miasma was considered not playing the game properly, present WoF is officially letting the game play for you without any use of macro.

 

And those who want to defend the present WoF by saying Ember is only OP in low level missions, just stop. Ember does perfectly fine in all 254 starchart nodes and majority of the players play those. Just saying Ember is not good in T3 and T4 is a very weak argument.

 

Having said that, I absolutely do not agree with OP's idea. Ember is a damage frame. You are not supposed to reduce its damage output. That is absurd.

[tocorro]

I get that people wanted to buff her. For a while I did. But with a toggled 4th and damage centred abilities rather than fire? No thanks.

 

Question :

have you used her after the changes, and you are speaking out based on your own experiences while playing her ?

Or just played with other people that use her ?

Because I think constructive cirticisms is most welcomed, but only after extensivly playing given WF or weapon.

So to have a good grasp of strengths and weaknesses.

Without it, it's just : "I don't care what U do, just nerf it cause it is annoying for me".

[Viedra_Lavinova]

No, just because you don't like it doesn't mean everyone else should suffer. She's actually viable now compared to what she used to be.

Should we nerf Valkyr because of eternal war? No. Should we nerf EV Trin because she makes the game too easy? No. (Same argument here.)

 

 

Terrible suggestions. WoF doesn't need a nerf either, it's only OP in low level missions and on Infested without a healer. Pretty sure Saryn does more damage as well.

 

You're exaggerating and lying. Ember CAN'T be modded for 50 meters; the max range is like 35 meters IIRC. The ability only hits a set number of enemies per explosion as well, so we're definitely not hitting everything. We also need to spam Accelerant on high level enemies for WoF to not tickle them. Her energy pool sinks fast if you don't pick up orbs or use a syndicate proc.

You hit all the most important points.

 

Well ember is powerfull right now no argument with that but after being a trash frame for so long now ppl want to nerf her ?. I not gonna mention to build her like you described needs r10 gold and primed mods so if she will be useless with those mods there will be 2 problems.

 

1. Ember will be not worth getting/playing as

2. No one will bother with Primed/Rare 10 mods because it will be nerfed.

 

It goes without a doubt that ember has became a new nuker since saryn rework and as for now she has synergy between her powers but she is so powerfull against low level enemies. And if DE's gonna do what you suggest there always be other speed runners. Volts, Excals, Rhinos Build for stomp even limbo in few occasions.

Some people just want to watch the world burn. :/

 

She doesnt need a rework just because you dont like her. There is nothing wrong about her. Besides, I have yet to see her one shot something that actually high level without accelerant. You must've been on low to mid tier missions and let's face it. Most Warframes can one shot at those levels.

+1 No doubt.

 

 

1. Significantly lower the damage done by World on Fire. Similar to Saryn's 4th, the damage on this is just off the scale, and totally unfair.

 

2. Significantly decrease the range of World on Fire. I've seen full range builds reach across maps with the right mods.

 

 

....What the hell? The damage is minimal. Only if you use Accelerant it will deal nice damage. 

Lower the range? Reaching Across the map?....IT HAS A BASE RANGE OF 15 METERS!!!

 

I don't understand people. +1

 

Ember is good now.I don't see a need to nerf her.I mean,we've been crying out for this buff for a very long time.Im not ready to let it go.

Ikr?

[Dobermann92]

Warframe has no real endgame, just pure ability spamming and tonkor, so nerfing ember would only open up a door for a "new" frame (like ash) to do the exact job.

[God_is_a_Cat_Girl]

 

I'm sure DE can tweak the ability to be somewhat more interactive without it being considered a nerf. I was against toggable WoF for this exact reason from the very beginning when the threads popped up asking for it.

Kinda of same for me. Toggle was fine with duration, but I wasn't in favor of removing duration, because duration wasn't the problem to start with, it was the energy consumption that never got adjusted which made it really hard to keep WoF going if you didn't have a duration based build (when it still had duration, duration itself already increased the energy efficiency in the long run, because it diminished the need of recasts over time, which is why DE is putting duration into efficiency calculation for toggles now, which is wrong to make it for all toggles because only toggles with a duration limit have energy problems that can happen because of duration), which wasn't that bad since WoF is mostly only good at low~mid levels without the augment, and accelerant is what brings her up to higher levels, but still, all it needed was tweaks to energy consumption and maybe +5seconds, the duration removal wasn't really that needed (the removal for my Ember for example did nothing at all, besides getting a free slot for the augment, but her damage is still the same, so she's still as strong as before the buff, but now she needs almost no energy to keep WoF going, which coupled with the augment she can be rather broken at high levels as well, even if WoF doesn't kill anything, I can lockdown a bunch of enemies with a button press that happened 40 minutes ago).

I do hope they scrap WoF as it is right now and give us a more active power instead.

Running ODD with her it's like, get on pod, activate WoF, go play on phone or read the news, move Ember once in a while, run around to get energy every 5 waves, later you can press 2 once in a while too but if you have the augment and a team you don't have to worry that much about it, leave at wave 40 by only press 4 once.

Ember isn't good now, she was already good before, but it's a shame that no one really played her because they couldn't have WoF active for 10 minutes with a single energy bar.

Edited November 20, 2015 by God_is_a_Cat_Girl

[Yami666]

You heretics with the "N" word.. ember is finally viable in low- mid, mid -+a bit higher lvl content, when i was a newbie i was upset too that somebody had more kills than i, but it really doesnt matter for me now.

 

The only thing if you are so much blinded by the meaning of "overpowered" would be a tweak to her energy drain of WoF nothing more nothing less.

[(PSN)Treezzy1]

Oh God. Really? Ember just became good again. Now they wqant her turned back into trash. Ember does not need a nerf. After playing over 1000 hours u'll realise u need a nuke. I dont think ember can take out enemies on draco in 1 hit, plus the fact that it only affects 3 enemies at a time? Shes good. Not op. Most times i want to get a mission over with so i can do it all over again, nd again and again. So i need frames like mesa saryn nd ember to do it a little more efficiently. Why take that away from me?

And whats all this talk abt "requires no skill"?

Its a pve game for heavens sake. Why are most people so narrow minded about balance? Someone outkilling u with an ember? Get your own ember? Dont wanna see an ember? Host your own squad. Only pvp games require such attention to balance. If you really want to play a skill heavy game. Go play chess or bf4, hey black ops 3 is also an option.

[BansheePrime]

Meanwhile with my max damage min range build... couldnt possibly be MORE active... running around stabbing stuff in melee to actualy hit my 4. 

Edited November 20, 2015 by maj.death

[Yuilogy]

You cant nerf ember that hard and not suggest a fix.

 

a fire proc is in no way equal to increasing energy cost, a speed reduction(to an already slow frame), reducing range and damage. 

 

What you are saying is basically give her a useless ultimate and all it does is proc a fire proc.

 

I understand where you are coming from my friend ran an ember with me when i was testing atlas and i barely touched the enemies. However this is not the way to go about it. I have THREE things to consider.

 

1) In the devstreams scott has mentioned that warframes will begin to scale with warframe level and this may help you out a little.
 

2) For people that have put the time in to make their ember do as much damage as she does by maxing mods such as blind rage etc. giving them a "nerf" when they go into a low level is not fair to them just so you can get more kills.

 

3) As a person that had their favorite frame changed and nerfed in a way, i can say that nerfing a frame because you want more kills and you want them to not hog kills is not the way to go. Back when nova first came out she was my favorite frame i love pressing for and nuking a bunch of enemies but then they changed her ultimate a little and it made things not near as fun. So changing ember's ullt will be just as disappointing for ember players as it was for me and nova. I say if you dont want to play with an ember get a squad together that doesnt have and ember, or play solo. Don't ruin other people's fun because you dont have the same type of fun as them.

 

 

I think finding a way of changing the ult without making it no fun. 

 

[weezedog]

WoF is mainly used with the augment to act as CC so that the enemies don't kill you before you kill them, but the kills themselves come from weapon damage not WoF damage, except in lower level stuff. I'm sorry but the game is not, and should not, be balanced around low level missions.

Edited November 20, 2015 by weezedog

[DeMonkey]

WoF is mainly used with the augment to act as CC so that the enemies don't kill you before you kill them, but the kills themselves come from weapon damage not WoF damage, except in lower level stuff. I'm sorry but the game is not balanced around low level missions, and should not be.

 

And yet there is so much content there, alerts, events, keys, resources etc. If the game shouldn't be balanced around that sort of level, then surely all the rewards should come from later levels right?

 

Coz screw newbs amirite.