Ember Prime Nerf Please. Specifically, World On Fire.

[NKDG]

People seem to not realize that ember now plays as a walking mesa using her 4th.

People want to argue about higher lvl? That goes for both mesa and saryn w/ the dmg fallout but with a cc and dmg buff that is accelerant.

Besides, wasn't miasma considered a room clearer for lower/mid tier missions as well?

Calculate the max damage world on fire can get. Come back. Present your baseless facts with actual numbers so they're no longer baseless. If the numbers support your claims, then a nerf should be in order. Edited November 21, 2015 by NKDG

[rawr1254]

Calculate the max damage world on fire can get. Come back. Present your baseless facts with actual numbers so they're no longer baseless. If the numbers support your claims, then a nerf should be in order.

Even I have to call you on that. Ember can do massive damage if you play her how you're supposed to instead of just using FIrequake. Firequake gives the illusion of making the skill useful. The true thing that make you being Ember useful is NOT using firequake and is actually using accelerant instead. Only noobs waste peoples time using Firequake. What good is that thing if WoF only targets one enemy at a time and your sitting there waiting for it to kill a single Bombard while the team gets destroyed by 3 Heavy gunners. Accelerant is what makes her good NOT Firequake. And accelerant can make you kill that Bombard and 5 more enemies in the time it's take your Firequake to do something to it.

[NKDG]

Even I have to call you on that. Ember can do massive damage if you play her how you're supposed to instead of just using FIrequake. Firequake gives the illusion of making the skill useful. The true thing that make you being Ember useful is NOT using firequake and is actually using accelerant instead. Only noobs waste peoples time using Firequake. What good is that thing if WoF only targets one enemy at a time and your sitting there waiting for it to kill a single Bombard while the team gets destroyed by 3 Heavy gunners. Accelerant is what makes her good NOT Firequake. And accelerant can make you kill that Bombard and 5 more enemies in the time it's take your Firequake to do something to it.

But how is that bad? That's what requires you do use a weapon! Isn't that the point of a non-damaging aoe?

Edited November 21, 2015 by NKDG

[JuicyPop]

Ember is finally in a state where she isn't complete trash and the nerf threads start flying.

 

Did you ever take a second to wonder if it's not just you who is playing a high-speed, action game at an incredibly slow pace? I haven't encountered 'speedrunners' in 2 years of playing.

Edited November 21, 2015 by JuicyPop

[rawr1254]

Ok...with 245% str only a stretch and 95% duration your having more than enough range to dispatch many enemies around you very quickly low lvl and high lvl enemies. Also the drain even with that duration is a mere 1.88 energy and the efficiency still allows you to use Accelerant when you need to. In the beginning of the game WoF alone is more than enough to take out the trash mobs until you get to later lvls. With 245% str your Accelerant boosts heat damage by abut 613% So 980 heat damage *600% making it about 6000 damage. And this 6000 damage can be dealth up to 4 times per second to one enemy. And the stagger of accelerant helps survival more than your FIrequake will cause it hits and entire crowd. Also Ember has 2 other skills omfg O,o You can also use FIreblast to CC as well and Fireball to help deal damage as well ALL while using WoF.

 

And just btw this isn't an argument to nerf her this is an argument to prove a point.

Edited November 21, 2015 by rawr1254

[letir]

And your energy will be drained in second.

[(XBOX)Master4733]

1St they need a prime one, 100% isn't gona be enough

And on to the 2nd point I have:

Ember prime isn't a press 4 to win frame, it does moderate damage, with the aguement it's powerful but it doesn't instantly kill or make you immortal

[NKDG]

Ok...with 245% str only a stretch and 95% duration your having more than enough range to dispatch many enemies around you very quickly low lvl and high lvl enemies. Also the drain even with that duration is a mere 1.88 energy and the efficiency still allows you to use Accelerant when you need to. In the beginning of the game WoF alone is more than enough to take out the trash mobs until you get to later lvls. With 245% str your Accelerant boosts heat damage by abut 613% So 980 heat damage *600% making it about 6000 damage. And this 6000 damage can be dealth up to 4 times per second to one enemy. And the stagger of accelerant helps survival more than your FIrequake will cause it hits and entire crowd. Also Ember has 2 other skills omfg O,o You can also use FIreblast to CC as well and Fireball to help deal damage as well ALL while using WoF.

And just btw this isn't an argument to nerf her this is an argument to prove a point.

Then your point has been proven. I personally use her as cc with overextended and 2 augments(panic and quake), so I've never actually tested a full damage build or wanted to even try it. She's very good at her job as a cc, and is more fun than straight kill aura. Edited November 21, 2015 by NKDG

[RealPandemonium]

For reference:

 

Using this easily attainable build (no primed mods) which allows for max efficiency (including .75 energy/sec WoF) and includes room for a durability mod (I use Redirection:)  http://goo.gl/oAM6pY

 

Each tick of Accelerant-boosted WoF deals 400 * 1.85 * (2.5 * 1.85) = 3422 damage.  I use Primed Continuity and replace Constitution with Blind Rage in my build, raising WoF's cost  to 1.11/sec (~40% increase) but also raising damage by ~30% while keeping the other powers at max efficiency.

 

Each tick also has a 65% chance to proc Heat status, which adds 1711 bonus damage immediately, and 10,266 more damage over 6 seconds.

 

Heat procs also stagger enemies (~4 seconds for humanoids, ~3 for most Infested, ~2 for Chargers and MOAs, no stagger for drones/ospreys.)  Heat procs also don't stack, but heat procs applied while one is already in progress reset the original proc's DoT effect.  

Edited November 21, 2015 by RealPandemonium

[NKDG]

Ember is finally in a state where she isn't complete trash and the nerf threads start flying.

Did you ever take a second to wonder if it's not just you who is playing a high-speed, action game at an incredibly slow pace? I haven't encountered 'speedrunners' in 2 years of playing.

Literally the only difference is her ult not being on a timer. Why is that suddenly elevate her from trash tier? This adds ONE more move to her arsenal, are her other moves such trash that you have to rely solely on her ult? This can also be applied to those complaining to DE to start swinging the nerf bat. It's one @(*()$ QoL change!!! Edited November 21, 2015 by NKDG

[(PSN)l0r3n7step]

I'm sick and tired of logging on to games expecting to have fun, and instead being greeted by 1 or 2 Ember 'speedrunners'. You know the ones I mean. They activate World on Fire and run across the map, insta-killing anything that comes within 50 metres of them, without actually putting any effort or skill into it. It's not fair on the rest of us. Now Ember is the 'go to press 4 to win' frame for Draco and such, what with the Mesa and Saryn reworks. I'm hoping you can rework Ember's 4th to better suit her concept, as you did with Saryn. Now I have no choice but to recommend the following procedures:

 

1. Significantly lower the damage done by World on Fire. Similar to Saryn's 4th, the damage on this is just off the scale, and totally unfair.

 

2. Significantly decrease the range of World on Fire. I've seen full range builds reach across maps with the right mods.

 

3. Make airborne targets able to avoid World on Fire (ospreys and such). This would help to prevent speedrunning extermination missions.

 

4 (Only a recommendation). Decrease Ember's speed when using World on Fire. This will really help with preventing speedrunning too.

 

5 (Positive!). Add a semi-powerful and instant fire proc to anyone caught in World on Fire. I'm not going to plan a total nerfing. I think a guaranteed fire proc would fit in well here.

 

Any questions, recommendations, or opinions? Put them all in the comments below, and happy hunting Tenno.

 

[EDIT]

 

Not necessarily lower damage overall. Just better scaling, so much less damage on lower level missions.

 

Also, a bigger energy drain.

 

0. If you are sick and tired then take a break

 

1. How is it off the scale and unfair?

 

2. Really? Numbers are not your strong suit, I guess.

 

3. It is called World on Fire. Other games may have a Ground on Fire. May I suggest a switch?

 

4. Sounds like your ego got bruised after someone was less obsessed with the mission-screen numbers and rather focused on finishing the mission.

 

5. That would be unfair.

[(PSN)l0r3n7step]

Ember is finally in a state where she isn't complete trash and the nerf threads start flying.

 

Did you ever take a second to wonder if it's not just you who is playing a high-speed, action game at an incredibly slow pace? I haven't encountered 'speedrunners' in 2 years of playing.

 

That°°.

 

 As an and aside, most often gamers come here complaining about stuff, seemingly oblivious that they put 3-5 formas into their gear alongside maxed (primed) mods which newcomers don't even remotely have access to - if they even know yet that such mods exists.

 

Of course the game should change and keep things interesting for more experienced gamers and make The Grind easier.

 

 

There are hardly any warframes that I couldn't mod in a way to outkill all other players by a factor of 5x. But I neither had the mods or experience as a newcomer to pull this off. Same goes for most Ember builds I've seen.

[(PSN)crow5716]

I'll agree to an Ember nerf since they nerfed my 3 favorite frames, Mesa, Saryn & Mag. Let's just make all frames garbage!

[(PSN)gatehacker00]

No one should be required to make a private lobby just to enjoy the game. If they can't ever go public, then there's something wrong with the game.

That's it, that's all. It's not a matter of controlling other players or having the perfect run. The game mechanics are flawed and it's removing fun for some players because it's making it easier for other players to just spam one ability and rush through the content, in a self-center, rude and inconsiderate manner.

I don't agree with that I have a balance build (for all 4 abilities) a speed build (for 3 and 4) and a build based on the augments. I shouldn't have to lose aconfig because someone dont like that I put time and effort into my builds to customize them to how I like to play. He should just play with his friends or by himself. You can't force other people stop having fun because even if they do nerf her people are still going to figure out how to speed run with her. Mods determine are warframes skill and usefullness nerfing her because people modded for one ability is stupid. To me it sounds like he needs to not play with randies.

[Pride]

this is embers WHOLE thing without this ONE thing she is a worthless frame and frankly equinox already does it better i mean what your asking is for something on par with declawing valkyr and nerfing rhinos cod piece

[MagPrime]

I don't agree with that I have a balance build (for all 4 abilities) a speed build (for 3 and 4) and a build based on the augments. I shouldn't have to lose aconfig because someone dont like that I put time and effort into my builds to customize them to how I like to play. He should just play with his friends or by himself. You can't force other people stop having fun because even if they do nerf her people are still going to figure out how to speed run with her. Mods determine are warframes skill and usefullness nerfing her because people modded for one ability is stupid. To me it sounds like he needs to not play with randies.

And I disagree that if my definition of fun infringes on yours, I'm the one that has to go to private lobbies and not the person with specialized builds.

You have a specific set up for specific situations - good on you. But that doesn't mean that since I don't play that way, I get pushed out of public play because it's inconvenient for you to be a respectful teammate.

[RealPandemonium]

this is embers WHOLE thing without this ONE thing she is a worthless frame and frankly equinox already does it better i mean what your asking is for something on par with declawing valkyr and nerfing rhinos cod piece

Ember's whole thing is dealing high direct damage with powers and having lots of active CC instead of spamming infallible mass CC.  WoF used to have its niche but various buffs, and now its new-found efficiency, have made it a convenient factory farming power.  

[taiiat]

 

i'd liked the theory of World on Fire being something you could basically have as a Passive.

 

however, i also had in mind that in order for it to deal meaningful Damage, you'd need to cast Accelerant. something like, World on Fire having a base Damage of like, 30 (increased base Status Chance from now, so that on it's own it's passively like an area of Fire Status, or an area of Knockdown with Augment) - but Accelerant would be 500% World on Fire Damage - similar to how Casting Speed goes up for a Time when you cast Accelerant - plus the existing 250% to Fire Damage.

 

so having the pre-existing Damage but being able to turn it on and never turn it back off for an entire Mission... not really what i had in mind.

[tripletriple]

I'm talking about the buff where they gave it scaling proc chance and the introduction of Firequake, both of which happened quite a while ago.  These put it into exploit territory but no one cared until it got super efficient (and lazy) and other factory farmers (like Saryn and Mesa) got nerfed.  

Ember was never in a good place before these changes. Lets not make things up now. 

[RealPandemonium]

Ember was never in a good place before these changes. Lets not make things up now. 

Nothing is in a good place in public opinion until circumstances change to shed light on it.  Saryn's Miasma bug was around for about 2 years before abusing it became a fan favorite, and before that point there was almost nothing but reports of "Saryn is useless and needs a buff."  Nothing changed on the frame; the meta only changed because someone read the wiki, drew a conclusion, and posted it on Reddit.  

Edited November 22, 2015 by RealPandemonium

[(XBOX)Master4733]

How about yes.

How about reduce damage but the stun is longer:3, or change fireballs to be scalable with range, or even change her first ability into a hydrogen bomb that will literally blow up the planet, clearing it, destroying you warframe and internet, but you get every frame and weapon in game

[seniledark]

You know, you could try and give a better reason to nerf her, but all I hear is: "I'm not getting enough kills because ember players, please nerf."

So, no.

[rawr1254]

You know, you could try and give a better reason to nerf her, but all I hear is: "I'm not getting enough kills because ember players, please nerf."

So, no.

Well that was how the Mesa nerf started and look what happened. DE listened nerf her to the ground and now everyones up in arms complaining she's horrible now. Which tbh she is. I haven't once gone into a game with someone asking for a Mesa since her nerf. I mean even with Mags GP being nerfed she can still be helpful when doing Triton or any other Corpus mission. But Mesas just...done.

[Buzkyl]

Going to leave the quote i said in another thread here

 

 

The current WoF is press 1 button and watch the ability kill everything. The issue it is is that the ability requires almost no thought to use or even the need to deactivate and it's energy consumption makes it more like a passive ability than an ultimate interms of upkeep while keeping an ultimate like DPS flowing.

 

 

It's pretty obvious DE is going to tweak it like it they did Mesa so that people don't simply press the button and go along thier merry way

 

 

But it falls of in damage at higher levels!

That is due to Armour scaling which causes most if not all damage centric abilities to have little use at higher levels due to their damage slowing being reduce as it goes higher. If you believe it does poor damage, run ember in x4 CP to remove aromour and see how well it performs then.

 

It's interactive already

Running around is not interactive, you are doing that already, now you're doing it with a skill active. You're not focusing it in any direction or area as it automatically hits enemies which appear in it's radius.

 

It's gonna get nerfed like Peacemaker

Actually peacemaker damage was appropriately buff the smaller the ring gets and the run allows you to still focus fire on enemies that are actually a threat and not shoot fodder

 

Exalted Blade/Peacemaker/ other ultimate skills to alot of damage, why not nerf them

EB as always been underfire for it's mindless nature of the waves, however exalted blade still has more thought into than world on fire as you must aim the waves. While you're still holding down the mouse button in peacemaker, youhave to now aim at enemies or you're wasting energy, still more thought than world on fire.

[Creamed]

You know, you could try and give a better reason to nerf her, but all I hear is: "I'm not getting enough kills because ember players, please nerf."

So, no.

That is how miasma was changed was it not?

Edited November 22, 2015 by Creamed