Ember Prime Nerf Please. Specifically, World On Fire.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

makes sense but warframe is structured in a way that it's aoe or gtfo, no matter how much damage an ability can deal to a single target a weapon will always do better and there aren't targets whort wasting energy on (the reason nobody uses 25 energy abilities)

Evrything is dps. CC is very effective indeed but you still need damage to kill something.

First abilitys are the best way to actually implement casting damage into the game since they are not in conflict with gunplay but usually act as onehandet addiction.

Reworking the balance or to be preciese BUFFING damage centered 1-3 abilitys would most definitly benefit the game and make the used energy actually worth it.

I mean DE implemented quantity onto saryn and using her first became usefull instantly. Atlas first scales from melee mods and is THE damage ability.

I can't rly disagree with the guys here, her ult is pretty useless but it still looks overwhelming cause she doesn't have anything else. AE damage works magnificent in lower lvls but it's completely useless in higher ones. WoF is just a combination of efficient damage and CC, what becomes a mandatory in higher lvls. The game would definitly profit from damage as tactical choice, especially on builds that center around full duration, or, just not on range. What's in fact a option for ember and basicly the way you wanna go into the endgame, if you're not approaching the minimal CC that comes with WoF.

Edited November 22, 2015 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[-dicht.Amducias-]

Whoever says Ember is a factory farming tool or an exploit has totally no idea how to farm properly and how inefficient ember is due to her low range of 15m and random enemy targeting + fire sucks against armored targets.

[deviantru]

Speed running is just that, a speed run... Besides, have you ever used ember in high tier missions? WoF is weak as it is in high lvl enemies and your asking for it to be as weak to low tiered ones also? You have got to be kidding me....

[(XBOX)lotus503]

I'm sick and tired of logging on to games expecting to have fun, and instead being greeted by 1 or 2 Ember 'speedrunners'. You know the ones I mean. They activate World on Fire and run across the map, insta-killing anything that comes within 50 metres of them, without actually putting any effort or skill into it. It's not fair on the rest of us. Now Ember is the 'go to press 4 to win' frame for Draco and such, what with the Mesa and Saryn reworks. I'm hoping you can rework Ember's 4th to better suit her concept, as you did with Saryn. Now I have no choice but to recommend the following procedures:

 

1. Significantly lower the damage done by World on Fire. Similar to Saryn's 4th, the damage on this is just off the scale, and totally unfair.

 

2. Significantly decrease the range of World on Fire. I've seen full range builds reach across maps with the right mods.

 

3. Make airborne targets able to avoid World on Fire (ospreys and such). This would help to prevent speedrunning extermination missions.

 

4 (Only a recommendation). Decrease Ember's speed when using World on Fire. This will really help with preventing speedrunning too.

 

5 (Positive!). Add a semi-powerful and instant fire proc to anyone caught in World on Fire. I'm not going to plan a total nerfing. I think a guaranteed fire proc would fit in well here.

 

Any questions, recommendations, or opinions? Put them all in the comments below, and happy hunting Tenno.

 

[EDIT]

 

Not necessarily lower damage overall. Just better scaling, so much less damage on lower level missions.

 

Also, a bigger energy drain.

So based on this plea I went ahead and played Ember this weekend. I had the Prime variant built at Rank 0.

So after leveling him up with and again after a Forma, I put on my Mods and decided to get through some of the star-map I have been avoiding.

 

Usually I play t3 & t4 Survial/Defense with my geared out dual Trickery ash prime or My Loki prime. Understand I can tear through the Starmap on both of these war-frames without issue. So I set myself to friends only and went soloing planets. Ember is fun at low levels and is not any easier than my other completed frames. He is a bit faster through some missions when modded for range. WOF is awful with any enemies past level 30ish, Bladestorm spam is more effective and scales much higher.  Loki Disarm with a decoy and tonkor is more fun than WOF.

 

Ember is nothing special and all of what you propose would make the frame worthless. try creating a group and picking people you want to play with vs crying about kills in PUGS.

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

I'm sick and tired of logging on to games expecting to have fun, and instead being greeted by 1 or 2 Ember 'speedrunners'. You know the ones I mean. They activate World on Fire and run across the map, insta-killing anything that comes within 50 metres of them, without actually putting any effort or skill into it. It's not fair on the rest of us. Now Ember is the 'go to press 4 to win' frame for Draco and such, what with the Mesa and Saryn reworks. I'm hoping you can rework Ember's 4th to better suit her concept, as you did with Saryn. Now I have no choice but to recommend the following procedures:

 

1. Significantly lower the damage done by World on Fire. Similar to Saryn's 4th, the damage on this is just off the scale, and totally unfair.

 

2. Significantly decrease the range of World on Fire. I've seen full range builds reach across maps with the right mods.

 

3. Make airborne targets able to avoid World on Fire (ospreys and such). This would help to prevent speedrunning extermination missions.

 

4 (Only a recommendation). Decrease Ember's speed when using World on Fire. This will really help with preventing speedrunning too.

 

5 (Positive!). Add a semi-powerful and instant fire proc to anyone caught in World on Fire. I'm not going to plan a total nerfing. I think a guaranteed fire proc would fit in well here.

 

Any questions, recommendations, or opinions? Put them all in the comments below, and happy hunting Tenno.

 

[EDIT]

 

Not necessarily lower damage overall. Just better scaling, so much less damage on lower level missions.

 

Also, a bigger energy drain.

 

Ember's only saving grace at the moment is World on Fire, The fact that you want so many outrageous changes to her means that you've never actually played as her. 

Changes like not hitting airborne enemies is the stupidest decision I've ever heard of. If you implement that on ember you also have to implement it on all warframes so that airborne enemies can't get hit by abilities which just makes the game annoying. 

She already has a very high proc chance and your suggestion wouldn't change much

 

She is a glass cannon who is supposed to be a CC/damage frame and her CC is generally pretty weak. But not only do you wanna nerf her main source of damage but you wanna limit her survivability too? 

 

If an ember is out damaging you draco... You might need to... Get Guud. She can't do anywhere near as much damage as excalibur.

Seriously go play ember and you will change your mind in a heartbeat. 

 

If random people are bugging you soon much do something other then exterminates and draco. Try running t4 defense or something

[Doom_Bunny]

Ember's wof reminds me of how Saryn's nuke used to be, terrible in the high ends of the void but over powered everywhere else. I don't agree with OP but having a continues togglable damage that can practically clear nearly all missions without the player doing anything, it does seem over powered.

 

A togglable mode does seem like a good way to go... When Ember used the ability overheat her appearance would change to appear burnt while granting damage reduction. I was thinking along those lines, a sort of demonic fire caster mode.

[DeMonkey]

If random people are bugging you soon much do something other then exterminates and draco. Try running t4 defense or something

 

I love how whenever DE release a pathetic solution to a problem that doesn't actually solve anything, people lose their minds and cry ''Bandaid'' on the forums.

 

Players do it and everything is hunky dory.

 

''Go play something else'' is not a solution.

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

Removed several rude, inappropriate, off topic, and non-constructive posts.

Please keep the Code of Conduct in mind before posting.

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

I love how whenever DE release a pathetic solution to a problem that doesn't actually solve anything, people lose their minds and cry ''Bandaid'' on the forums.

 

Players do it and everything is hunky dory.

 

''Go play something else'' is not a solution.

 

Go play something else is the solution as people who play as ember usually only do it to speed run things, You are less likely to see an ember in a high level survival and more likely to see her in a exterminate. And ember has been needing some love for quite some time. Even if she isn't perfect, Its a step in the right direction 

[Viedra_Lavinova]

Certain frames are predispositioned to do certain things better than others... Why should we make all the frames the same when the synergy/ combinations among all the differences are so much celestially greater?

[DeMonkey]

Go play something else is the solution as people who play as ember usually only do it to speed run things, You are less likely to see an ember in a high level survival and more likely to see her in a exterminate. And ember has been needing some love for quite some time. Even if she isn't perfect, Its a step in the right direction 

 

Since Noamuth said it better than I ever could,

 

And I disagree that if my definition of fun infringes on yours, I'm the one that has to go to private lobbies and not the person with specialized builds.

You have a specific set up for specific situations - good on you. But that doesn't mean that since I don't play that way, I get pushed out of public play because it's inconvenient for you to be a respectful teammate.

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

-snip-

 

You get pushed out of public play cause you can't deal with the way somebody else plays. You can hardly talk to me about respecting your play style if you complaining about how a teammate killing things too well

[rawr1254]

Since Noamuth said it better than I ever could,

 

So then because you're mad that I put time into my account and happen to have a lot of primed mods etc, I have to NOT put them on just so you can let us take double if not triple the time to clear an exterminate mission or have to use a bunch of revives in survival cause we can't last 20 minutes without having to fight through the enemies like we're 60 minutes in when we're only 15 minutes in the game. 

[DeMonkey]

So then because you're mad that I put time into my account and happen to have a lot of primed mods etc, I have to NOT put them on just so you can let us take double if not triple the time to clear an exterminate mission or have to use a bunch of revives in survival cause we can't last 20 minutes without having to fight through the enemies like we're 60 minutes in when we're only 15 minutes in the game.

If I join a public exterminate match, it's because I want to exterminate things with other people. What I do not want is to watch somebody else exterminate everything for me. Why should I be the one who has to set up a private group in that scenario?

You're the one capable of cheesing the match on your own, you should be the one to play solo, not the other person who actually wants to play with others.

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

So based on this plea I went ahead and played Ember this weekend. I had the Prime variant built at Rank 0.

So after leveling him up with and again after a Forma, I put on my Mods and decided to get through some of the star-map I have been avoiding.

 

Usually I play t3 & t4 Survial/Defense with my geared out dual Trickery ash prime or My Loki prime. Understand I can tear through the Starmap on both of these war-frames without issue. So I set myself to friends only and went soloing planets. Ember is fun at low levels and is not any easier than my other completed frames. He is a bit faster through some missions when modded for range. WOF is awful with any enemies past level 30ish, Bladestorm spam is more effective and scales much higher.  Loki Disarm with a decoy and tonkor is more fun than WOF.

 

Ember is nothing special and all of what you propose would make the frame worthless. try creating a group and picking people you want to play with vs crying about kills in PUGS.

 

 

Im not saying a nerf is fully in order, but more a alteration for the boring passiveness of the power, and the sleepwalking ease in lower levels. The lower levels issue is more a systemic one, and not easily answered and that should be factored into the consideration of any changes that could be made.

 

Now reading your comment, I didn't see any mention of the augment for WoF, and it makes a big difference. Knocked down enemies tend to get hit one, two, three, or more times before they can get back up and by then they usually die. Go on a void, or better yet a raid, with four corrosive projections and its a joke. throw in a molecular prime from Nova, and level 90 enemies fall like leaves. This wouldn't be so bad if your where actually fighting, but your not, your sleepwalking through the hole thing.

 

 

You get pushed out of public play cause you can't deal with the way somebody else plays. You can hardly talk to me about respecting your play style if you complaining about how a teammate killing things too well

 

So then because you're mad that I put time into my account and happen to have a lot of primed mods etc, I have to NOT put them on just so you can let us take double if not triple the time to clear an exterminate mission or have to use a bunch of revives in survival cause we can't last 20 minutes without having to fight through the enemies like we're 60 minutes in when we're only 15 minutes in the game. 

 

If I join a public exterminate match, it's because I want to exterminate things with other people. What I do not want is to watch somebody else exterminate everything for me. Why should I be the one who has to set up a private group in that scenario?

You're the one capable of cheesing the match on your own, you should be the one to play solo, not the other person who actually wants to play with others.

 

^

 

The core design of the game is, third person action shooter. MMO-ish/RPG is a distant second. Public matches in the co-op of the game should have a reasonable expectation that the game will be a tense, high action shooter with ninja-space-magic thrown in for good measure. Not godzilla god blasting everything into oblivion.

Edited November 23, 2015 by (PS4)MoRockaPDX

[MagPrime]

You get pushed out of public play cause you can't deal with the way somebody else plays. You can hardly talk to me about respecting your play style if you complaining about how a teammate killing things too well

Sounds like you can't deal with how other players choose to enjoy the game more than DeMonkey does.

 

You can hardly talk about anyone respecting your gameplace when you're so blatantly disrespectful of everyone elses. 

 

So then because you're mad that I put time into my account and happen to have a lot of primed mods etc, I have to NOT put them on just so you can let us take double if not triple the time to clear an exterminate mission or have to use a bunch of revives in survival cause we can't last 20 minutes without having to fight through the enemies like we're 60 minutes in when we're only 15 minutes in the game. 

No ones mad that you put time and effort into making a decent build - other players are mad that you're coming into the public matches and ruining their fun by playing the way you want to play and not being considerate about how they want to play.

 

If you're capable of face rolling content, why are you bothering with public matches?  Honestly the only reason I can see is some kind of epeen or just massive disrespect for others for enjoyment. 

[rawr1254]

 

No ones mad that you put time and effort into making a decent build - other players are mad that you're coming into the public matches and ruining their fun by playing the way you want to play and not being considerate about how they want to play.

 

If you're capable of face rolling content, why are you bothering with public matches?  Honestly the only reason I can see is some kind of epeen or just massive disrespect for others for enjoyment. 

I go into public matches for many reasons.

1. It's a public match, I can choose to do it if I want to and you also joined it yourself

2. It's called bugframe so I'd prefer having people still in the game with me if for WHATEVER reason something kills me in one hit

3. You ALSO joined public MEANING you don't think you can clear the mission by yourself either.

4. You help clear out any enemies I might have missed

 

So what's the problem.

Edited November 23, 2015 by rawr1254

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

Sounds like you can't deal with how other players choose to enjoy the game more than DeMonkey does.

 

You can hardly talk about anyone respecting your gameplace when you're so blatantly disrespectful of everyone elses. 

 

No ones mad that you put time and effort into making a decent build - other players are mad that you're coming into the public matches and ruining their fun by playing the way you want to play and not being considerate about how they want to play.

 

If you're capable of face rolling content, why are you bothering with public matches?  Honestly the only reason I can see is some kind of epeen or just massive disrespect for others for enjoyment. 

I honestly think people keep doing public matches because for whatever reason they get downed and want free revives from others. 

 

 

I go into public matches for many reasons.

1. It's a public match, I can choose to do it if I want to and you also joined it yourself

2. It's called bugframe so I'd prefer having people still in the game with me if for WHATEVER reason something kills me in one hit

3. You ALSO joined public MEANING you don't think you can clear the mission by yourself either.

4. You help clear out any enemies I might have missed

 

So what's the problem.

 

case in point. ^

[Doom_Bunny]

Discussing over who should go solo/leave seems counterproductive and off-topic. The question is whether or not Ember's wof is over powered.

It is not: should the cheeser leave or the person unable to play because of another player.

[MagPrime]

I go into public matches for many reasons.

1. It's a public match, I can choose to do it if I want to and you also joined it yourself

2. It's called bugframe so I'd prefer having people still in the game with me if for WHATEVER reason something kills me in one hit

3. You ALSO joined public MEANING you don't think you can clear the mission by yourself either.

4. You help clear out any enemies I might have missed

 

So what's the problem.

So make your own team - problem solved.

 

Bonus - you aren't ruining other peoples matches with your playstyle and forcing them to keep up with you and the pace you set.

 

Side note: I join public matches because I don't like playing solo and to recruit for my clan.  

 

I honestly think people keep doing public matches because for whatever reason they get downed and want free revives from others. 

 

 

 

case in point. ^

True.

 

 

Discussing over who should go solo/leave seems counterproductive and off-topic. The question is whether or not Ember's wof is over powered.

It is not: should the cheeser leave or the person unable to play because of another player.

I agree, it really isn't over powered - as long as she's in content balanced around her abilities.

 

Take anything high level into low level and it will always roflstomp the map.  It's true in every game.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Noamuth

[DeMonkey]

So what's the problem.

We've told you what the problem is, we don't want to see you face rolling content for us.

You're either struggling to understand that, or too rude to care.

Regarding point 3, is it not possible to join a public match with the objective being to play with others?

Last I checked it's a coop game, whether or not I can beat the mission solo is irrelevant.

[rawr1254]

We've told you what the problem is, we don't want to see you face rolling content for us.

You're either struggling to understand that, or too rude to care.

Regarding point 3, is it not possible to join a public match with the objective being to play with others?

Last I checked it's a coop game, whether or not I can beat the mission solo is irrelevant.

So ok here's the argument again. a Co-op game also known as a Cooperative game where everyone is there to attain one goal. We all finished the mission, we all got the same loot, we all don't need to be the one with the most kills, damage, headshots, etc to be special. So again WHAT IS THE PROBLEM.

[DeMonkey]

So ok here's the argument again. a Co-op game also known as a Cooperative game where everyone is there to attain one goal. We all finished the mission, we all got the same loot, we all don't need to be the one with the most kills, damage, headshots, etc to be special. So again WHAT IS THE PROBLEM.

That's your goal.

My goal is having fun. You know fun, right? Its that thing videogames are designed for.

[MagPrime]

So ok here's the argument again. a Co-op game also known as a Cooperative game where everyone is there to attain one goal. We all finished the mission, we all got the same loot, we all don't need to be the one with the most kills, damage, headshots, etc to be special. So again WHAT IS THE PROBLEM.

You're being rude and inconsiderate of your team and you're refusing to acknowledge that it might be a problem for the people you're forcing your play style on.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Noamuth

[zNightWolfz]

i think its all a big of a oh im its not fair i cant do that

ember is wicked frame i use it alot and i tell people if u join and dont like your can abort

ember helps with higher level  enemies  why i knock them down team mates can kill them or i do with guns

as i said if u join and dont like it then abort simple as that...