[Major Spoiler] Did Not See That Coming.

[zValor]

I think its more of youre a child physical but mentally youre much more mature.

[paragasu]

People need to remember that we only look like a child but in actuality we are older than Darvo...

[PapaFragolino]

The kid thing is alright but... What happens when a Tenno grows up? Grandmaster Tenno?

 

If I'm not mistaken they're not childs anymore, they are only by appearance.

[CoffeeEyes17]

yeah the implication is that the bodies are young but mentally we are much, much older. i can get down with it.

[SilentMobius]

Hmmm. Remote Tenno...

 

I don't mind it. I'm surprised DE went to all that effort. but, I do now need some questions answering:

 

1. Vor's line in the Arid fear victory text "Every time we tear a Tenno from their metal womb" obviously they weren't talking about actual Tenno, because no one knew about that, so. Is that text non-canon or is there a retcon explanation.

 

2. In the Mutalist arc. Alad V threatens us with joining his mutalist empire via infection. Hollow threats given there is no organic body in there. What Thread does the infestation hold for a puppet Warframe.

 

3. In the Zanuka Arc Alad V talks about Tenno bones. In this story he said that "What he found didn't make any sense" but if he found nothing? Why talk about bones, if the Warframes were empty, or filled with tech

 

4. Kinda makes the long-time description of Warframe's as "exo armour" a bit daft, why use it in the first place?

 

5. Might want to change Letch Kril's lines, stop him babbling about bleeding and skin no?

 

6. So what were we escaping from in the intro. When Vor showed up couldn't we just pick a different Warframe to project into?

 

7. Limbo Theorem, Hidden Messages. Why were those Tenno "dead"

 

8. Life support, bleeding, etc

 

I mean if you're saying "Hey, we stick a clone body in there" really? we were building Warframes and we didn't think about the clone body sitting in each one? Doesn't seem right, also but build Warframes out of Chassis, systems and helmet, there is no "dummy corpse" in that list.

 

Sure there are _possible_ answers, but there are a little.... well... less than satisfying.

Edited December 4, 2015 by SilentMobius

[Morec0]

 

321agemo, on 03 Dec 2015 - 8:16 PM, said:

If you could become any forum member for a day, who would it be?

 

YandereSamantha, evergreenmind, or Yuikami, making use of their leet art skills.

 

 

-FV-Metheria, on 03 Dec 2015 - 8:40 PM, said:

If Velour invited you to a bath with her, what would you do?

 

Whose Velour again?

 

 

TheBrsrkr, on 03 Dec 2015 - 9:33 PM, said:

I don't need me!

 

Fair enough.

 

 

Valteria., on 03 Dec 2015 - 9:40 PM, said:

Please leave your comments for the second dream quest, thank you. <3

 

I guess it's time to FINALLY make proper use of the Spoiler function:

 

I'm honestly very conflicted about it.

 

On one hand the quest was beautiful and every moment of it was so stunning it made it pretty much impossible to hate it, but on the other I can't help but feel something disappointed with certain events. Largely these are due to my own thoughts, feelings, opinions, and theories, so that's just natural, but at the same time I can't help but shake the feeling this is kinda... bad.

 

First off, Stalker... don't like that he sided with the Sentients, also not a fan of the fact he's apparently a Tenno... of some kind... somewhere... Not sure what's up with him.

 

To me Stalker was always the Anti-Teshin, while Teshin was willing to see the Tenno as people who were tricked and in need of guidance and even eventually came around to trusting the Lotus Stalker was filled with nothing but hate and contempt for them all, he saw them bring down his way of life and every last bitter piece of his hate was driven towards destroying them for it. I liked the duality of that theme, dark mirrors are always something I like...

 

And his siding with the Sentients also strikes me as a misstep, again because of how filled with hate and rage he is - ESPECIALLY since he's a Tenno and likely still had some memories, he should KNOW that the whole reason that the Orokin fell was "hey, wait, YOU guys started this war! you guys are the reason the Tenno were deployed!". As I've said elsewhere, the idea that Stalker is this being who would destroy everyone responsible for ruining his beloved Empire.

 

This is kinda redeemed with his own exploration and resistance to the matter during the finale of the quest, and I do like that they didn't just make Stalker a puppet of the Sentients like some were thinking, but it still feels off to me.

 

Also not happy with Alad's return. I'll say it: I HATE REDEMPTION STORIES. If a character is villainous they should stay villainous, especially when one falls into greater pits of villainy - as Stalker went through with the Infestation. Also don't like that the Infestation is something that can just be "cured" like Alad apparently makes it out to be. We saw something similar in the Jordas Raid but it always felt more to me like we were just forcing it away with a force it dislike, like scaring a wolf off with fire.

 

Alad, imo, should have stayed evil. How much cooler would it have been for Frohd to get a little more screentime? To have the Corpus under his command help you clear a path through the Corrupted pouring out of the Void Gate up to the point where they all get flattened by the Sentient that arrives?

 

... And... well, I suppose we hit the big one now: the Tenno have physical forms.

 

Don't get me wrong, that I can deal with. I've been okay with the idea of the Tenno being physical for a long time, far before I ever started to favor energy beings... But I REALLY don't like how they did it. What exactly about us put the Orokin off? We're not damaged, we're not scared!

 

OOOOH! We have glowey eyes and FREAKIN' KICKASS ENERGY POWERS! We're running on X-men logic that, I think we all know, wouldn't really hold up.

 

If we were damaged, scared, torn up and beaten by the raw energy floating through us that would be one thing. The idea that we represented everything the Void could do to a human? THAT would be something worth fearing... But we're NOT that, we could very easily say "screw this!" change our clothes, hop onto the first shuttle to a Relay and live the rest of our lives as normal people. And... That's... No!

 

Part of what I've always loved about the Tenno is this idea that they are bound to what they do, like destiny chose them to be these warriors and protectors of the people and what they have become leaves them with only one option: to follow it. The idea that a Tenno could just stop being a Tenno, which we very well could with how we look (don't give me that crap about the eyes, everyone wears visors anyway!)... It rubs me ALL the wrong ways.

 

It just... it doesn't sit well with me...

 

I like we know, I like we can stop talking about it, I like that we have a basis to go off of... But for us to be SO FREAKIN' NORMAL... It just sits with me wrong. It feels like a great storytelling opportunity was missed. And we didn't HAVE to be energy spirits for that, just have our bodies broken as damaged and scared by Void energy, sort of like how Dr. Narud from Starcraft looked at one point:

 

 

But maybe a little more extreme... Or not, hell the idea go along fine with just the energy looking like its eating away at his face!

 

Also, why the hell was Lotus so concerned for our safety - well, apparently just our Warframe's safety - in Vor's Prize and other such situations if there was LITERALLY no way a Tenno could die from the destruction of our Warframe? Stalker even cut the head off of one but Hunhow's just like "yeah, you know they come back, that's not doing anything"... It just... I HATE THE MATRIX EXPLANATION!!! Such a copout...

 

HOW THE HELL DID MIRAGE DIE???????

 

I'm also going to be getting a lot of "I told you so's" and S#&amp;&#036; for the next few days and I'm not looking forward to that.

[blasron]

i was mostly uncertain of the quest before going throught it and the end of it made me S#&amp;&#036; my bowel on the floor. Holy S#&amp;&#036; this is a royal slap in the face of many people i like it. 

 

I had my doubt about this and i am pretty damn happy with the turn of event.

[Kaotyke]

My mind was blown... It was one of the theories... and when we saw the Rhino Prime Codex... it was a BIG hint.

 

But to think we're still children, maybe our bodies were in stasis.

 

Now... where is Morec0?

[Morec0]

Dang... forgot to edit out the rest of the responses... could whatever mod handles that do it for me?

 

 

Hmmm.

 

I don't mind it. I'm surprised DE went to all that effort. but, I do now need some questions answering:

 

1. Vor's line in the Arid fear victory text "Every time we tear a Tenno from their metal womb" obviously they weren't talking about actual Tenno, because no one knew about that, so. Is that text non-canon or is there a retcon explanation.

 

2. In the Mutalist arc. Alad V threatens us with joining his mutalist empire via infection. Hollow threats given there is no organic body in there. What Thread does the infestation hold for a puppet Warframe.

 

3. In the Zanuka Arc Alad V talks about Tenno bones. In this story he said that "What he found didn't make any sense" but if he found nothing? Why talk about bones, if the Warframes were empty, or filled with tech

 

4. Kinda makes the long-time description of Warframe's as "exo armour" a bit daft, why use it in the first place?

 

5. Might want to change Letch Kril's lines, stop him babbling about bleeding and skin no?

 

6. So what were we escaping from in the intro. When Vor showed up couldn't we just pick a different Warframe to project into?

 

1) I maintain the "metal womb" was actually a Cryopod.

 

2) I maintain the Warframes a partly Organic, and remember he already WAS working on a Mutalist Mesa

 

3) And they talk about Sentient bones, seems to have been less of literal bone and more of "the remains" sort of deal.

 

4) Eh, that descriptions been sort of up in the air for a long time. Kinda like any strict reading of "ninjas play free" DE seems to have moved away from it.

 

5) Again: Infested tissue. Keep in mind that the Infested's "we are your flesh lines" are still there. But I will agree that him referring to something inside the Warframe might be a little reconsideration.

 

6) Yeah, that's a MAJOR issue I have too. I'm not even going to sit here and try to defend it.

[Jaruis]

Hmmm.

 

I don't mind it. I'm surprised DE went to all that effort. but, I do now need some questions answering:

 

1. Vor's line in the Arid fear victory text "Every time we tear a Tenno from their metal womb" obviously they weren't talking about actual Tenno, because no one knew about that, so. Is that text non-canon or is there a retcon explanation.

 

2. In the Mutalist arc. Alad V threatens us with joining his mutalist empire via infection. Hollow threats given there is no organic body in there. What Thread does the infestation hold for a puppet Warframe.

 

3. In the Zanuka Arc Alad V talks about Tenno bones. In this story he said that "What he found didn't make any sense" but if he found nothing? Why talk about bones, if the Warframes were empty, or filled with tech

 

4. Kinda makes the long-time description of Warframe's as "exo armour" a bit daft, why use it in the first place?

 

5. Might want to change Letch Kril's lines, stop him babbling about bleeding and skin no?

 

6. So what were we escaping from in the intro. When Vor showed up couldn't we just pick a different Warframe to project into?

My (tinfoil) theory would be that the tenno would literally have their soul into the suit, as in "becoming with one"

So it's possible that when the suit does get infected, so do the tenno, thus going through being hollow

It's also possible that the suit we start in were our original ones (which seems awkward that we're originally excals, mags, volts). Remember the original mirage? Got her suit destroyed and she's dead

We're basically soul-splitting into our warframes in a nutshell

[Jakcal]

But to think we're still children, maybe our bodies were in stasis.

My theory was that Void gave the Tenno immortality.

[Otaiken]

There absolutely is a body inside the warframe. First of all warframes bleed and even in the final cinematic you can clearly see the gore as Stalker stabs you with the sword.

 

There can easily simply be a body inside the frame, just a non-conscious shell.

 

So Grineer and Corpus could've found the body in the frame which would confuse them as they wouldn't assume Tenno were controling the body inside instead of the frame itself. Yet the body inside didn't have any powers of its own.

 

Lastly, there's the technocyte and infested, which are a fusion of biology and technology and they do talk about us being "of their flesh".

 

So imho frames are biomechanical puppets created by the Orokin.

Edited December 4, 2015 by LocoWithGun

[dj191dj]

So we are little kids controlling ninja frames slaughtering millions? I honestly hate it. I enjoyed the quest, but I hate the implication, that all this time, we have just been a bunch of 13 year olds running around killing stuff. Its just so lame and completely out of the theme of the game. I've got no idea why THIS was what DE decided was going the explanation for Warframes. It's honestly one of the worst possible explanations I could think of.  I'll still play the game because it's fun, but I just can't get behind the game's story anymore. As soon as I level up the Focus's i'm never going in that room again and i'm going to try to ignore the fact that we are just little kids prancing around.

I mean if you play Halo then technically you are doing the same thing.

[blasron]

There can easily simply be a body inside the frame, just a non-conscious shell.

 

I would said more like a semi-conscious shell. I based myself on the scene that the shell split war appart. "theorie"

 

So the shell must have some sort of conscious but a very limited one.

[Lost_Cartographer]

Hmmm. Remote Tenno...

 

I don't mind it. I'm surprised DE went to all that effort. but, I do now need some questions answering:

 

 

I mean if you're saying "Hey, we stick a clone body in there" really? we were building Warframes and we didn't think about the clone body sitting in each one? Doesn't seem right, also but build Warframes out of Chassis, systems and helmet, there is no "dummy corpse" in that list.

 

Sure there are _possible_ answers, but there are a little.... well... less than satisfying.

 

Nearly every warframe utilizes organic material (Plastids, nanospores) in its parts construction, usually systems ("system" itself being rather generic as a term,) some for helmets.  Hydroid is one example that doesn't but then, he can turn into a puddle.

 

So yeah, we're the Zariman children, remote controlling Warframes from the safety of a chair.  Seems like a familiar concept I think we can all relate to...  

 

The Rhino codex suddenly feels like its blatantly beaning us in the head with a semi-truck.  The answer was right there plain as day, many just couldn't believe it could possibly be that simple.

[Kaotyke]

I would said more like a semi-conscious shell. I based myself on the scene that the shell split war appart. "theorie"

 

So the shell must have some sort of conscious but a very limited one.

Warframes are Evangelions, confirmed.

[PnOyLeeT]

i thought tenno was ULTRAMAN at first ....

 

that head fin confused me !

 

i was like aqua man ? Abraham Sapien ? Ultraman !

[Cubewano]

I would said more like a semi-conscious shell. I based myself on the scene that the shell split war appart. "theorie"

 

So the shell must have some sort of conscious but a very limited one.

That's what I'm also getting from the frames at the moment, with the events that went down towards the end of the second dream and also those from the Rhino Prime codex entry it all suggests the frames on their own have at least some capacity for individual function. It may be severely limited, but all the same it appears to be a consciousness of some degree. 

 

Of course it could also be like a sort of ghost imprint as well, perhaps the frames by default have no mind but as they are used by the tenno they gradually develop this sort of phantom consciousness of the user that allows the frames to faintly behave separate of their operator. Kind of like they are moving off scrap brainwaves from the tenno that remained in them. 

Edited December 4, 2015 by Cubewano

[(PSN)supersocc11]

That's what I'm also getting from the frames at the moment, with the events that went down towards the end of the second dream and also those from the Rhino Prime codex entry it all suggests the frames on their own have at least some capacity for individual function. It may be severely limited, but all the same it appears to be a consciousness of some degree. 

 

Of course it could also be like a sort of ghost imprint as well, perhaps the frames by default have no mind but as they are used by the tenno they gradually develop this sort of phantom consciousness of the user that allows the frames to faintly behave separate of their operator. Kind of like they are moving off scrap brainwaves from the tenno that remained in them. 

I like that idea....

 

I am bummed, however, that the warframes/tenno are not rigorously trained, elite warriors like every other part of the game seems to point to.  Unless the biomass inside the frame has the knowledge of fighting abilities and the Tenno are the ones who awaken it...idk...all of the asian/martial arts themes in this game doesnt match up at all with the western Tenno children. 

[Cubewano]

I like that idea....

 

I am bummed, however, that the warframes/tenno are not rigorously trained, elite warriors like every other part of the game seems to point to.  Unless the biomass inside the frame has the knowledge of fighting abilities and the Tenno are the ones who awaken it...idk...all of the asian/martial arts themes in this game doesnt match up at all with the western Tenno children. 

i never expected the tenno to be elite warriors from the start so i can't share your exact sentiments (all arrows usually pointed to the tenno being nothing more than war machines to the orokin and you don't usually give your tools titles and high ranking) but beside that whose to say the tenno weren't trained to a degree? maybe not physically as there was really no point, but i don't imagine the orokin would just throw about their greatest discovery in warframe to date all whilly nilly. note the seven principles that are revealed at the end of the quest, quite obviously at some point during their time with the orokin they were filed off into classes based on their expertise, which would suggest that the orokin were trying to refine their traits as they would be applicable to combat i.e training. there's no saying how extensive this training was, but i don't imagine the orokin would be lenient on the tenno seeing as they were viewed as their only hope, alongside being viewed as just weapons, there was very little motivation for them to hold back or be gentle about their training processes. (we also can't count out how mods work. perhaps the mods themselves retain the training and when we put them into our frames the knowledge just transfers to us) 

[unknow99]

I....Errr....

 

I'm still a little bit stunned by that thing. They always said "We'll never reveal the warframes faces!" (and it's technically right) but the operator stuff...

 

I hope that my kiddo will :

 

grow up,

receive more facial expression & customization,

hide his face again,

keep quiet during my missions...

 

I'm not disappointed (the cinematics were astonishing) but the kids thing? Hmmmm I need some time I guess. :/

Edited December 4, 2015 by unknow99

[deltaheavy]

I completely agree. I hate the idea we are a bunch of ugly 12 year old kids playing dress up. I liked the quest but extremely disappointing ending. Too bad the Stalker didn't finish us off. 

 

You should get banned from playing the game, because if the operator dies then you have nobody to controll your warframe.

[Renegade343]

You should get banned from playing the game, because if the operator dies then you have nobody to controll your warframe.

But still: All the power in the world, and no one ever thought of trying to experiment and see if they can grow up physically?

[Gale47]

But still: All the power in the world, and no one ever thought of trying to experiment and see if they can grow up physically?

And what would be the point? A child-like body is easier to maintain and feed than that of a grown person. Besides, it's not like the Operator was ever supposed to see any action.

[Renegade343]

And what would be the point? A child-like body is easier to maintain and feed than that of a grown person. Besides, it's not like the Operator was ever supposed to see any action.

They would have to meet someone with their bodies at some point, and psychologically, not many people would take heed from a child. Besides, if they are children, then they would most likely think of growing up, so why not try it out with those weird powers they just have?