[Spoiler] Wait.... Who Wore What Warframe?

[Mak_Gohae]

If the tenno thought they were the warframe.... does that mean that only boys used boy frames?

I guess you can say this is the way it worked back in the day but this is not how it works now.

Now you can wear whatever you want.

 

So what exactly did the tenno thought they were?

 

This SD quest answers nothing!

Or rather, it's the usual DE throwing out one bit of info that just brings way more questions than it answers.

 

And what about the girls?

They should've been bugging out when they saw themselves. "OMG! Where are my void energy storage devices!?!?!??!"

 

Seriously, no one should've been calm. Everyone should've been bugging out.

 

We STILL dont know what's a tenno. I mean, we know what the tenno are but we dont know what the tenno thought they were.

[CrazyCatLad]

Nevermind. 

Edited December 10, 2015 by Lanieu

[OniDax]

I think they thought they were in the Warframes, or that the Warframes were built around them, such that the Warframes were like an outer layer or shell.

[Trichouette]

You do realise the tenno weren't even aware they were tiny human stuck in a pod on the moon right ?

They thought they were the warframes.

[TheCometCE]

There's a bit of hinting at the warframes themselves having their own sentience/self-awareness when not being controlled by the operator when they pulled the War out of their chest in the questline, so that's a thing. The way they talk to the frames kinda hints at that as well.

[RawGritz]

You do realise the tenno weren't even aware they were tiny human stuck in a pod on the moon right ?

They thought they were the warframes.

This^^

[Avrose]

There's a bit of hinting at the warframes themselves having their own sentience/self-awareness when not being controlled by the operator when they pulled the War out of their chest in the questline, so that's a thing. The way they talk to the frames kinda hints at that as well.

 

Or maybe there are self confirming settings and thoughts while on mission like they were trained to do by the orikin.

Army do that S#&$ all the time in command centers.

Also if I had a dollar for each (spoiler) thread on the forums I'd have a few hundred bucks. I really hope the console crew is avoiding this place.

[AEP8FlyBoy]

It's sort of like a soul and vessel ordeal. We as the Tenno had no idea that we weren't the Warframes until we awoke and saw ourselves slumped in front of us. The "Surrogates" as they are referred in the quest, are the actual beings inside the Warframes, and we as Tenno seemingly control them to a point. It doesn't exactly mean the Tenno possess any method of literal motor control over the Surrogates.

 

In fact, during a mission our Operators speak to us as if they have no such jurisdiction over our movements. Telling us things like. "Let's go." and "This will be easier if we don't alert them." They use the pronouns "We" and "Us" quite often. Meaning that we are separate entities.

 

If I recall correctly, the Tenno are bonded to the Surrogates inside the Warframes quite strongly, it would suggest that the bond that the Stalker shared with his Tenno was strong as well.  Until the Tenno betrayed the Orokin, the Stalker was probably just another puppet like all of the other Surrogates.

 

I'm pretty sure he's a rogue Surrogate, hunting us Tenno down for what we did to our creators. It would explain a lot wouldn't it? Not a lot was said about our friend the Stalker in the Second Dreams quest, but I can assume that this observation is fairly accurate. Based on what information we have received as of late.

 

The same can be said of the Lotus. We know that she is truly a "Sentient." Which would mean that she possessed a body that resembles the new Sentient fighters (Conculysts, Battlysts) we meet on the New Orokin Moon base tilesets. Is it too far of a stretch to think that the body we see her in now, isn't just a frame of her own? And she's merely using the same process us Tenno are to control that form? It would make sense right.

 

Remember in the "Natah" quest, where when you returned to the Liset after the 10-wave defense. The Lotus said "Natah was the daughter, until I destroyed her. Now I am the Lotus, now I am the mother." Analyzing that line, I would assume she destroyed her own body after transferring her consciousness into the body of what I'm thinking is Margulis (It would explain the gold accents on her neck, Orokin are totally into golden accents). Since Margulis and the Lotus both wanted the best for the Tenno, and both sacrificed their bodies for us to do just that. 

 

The similarities don't stop there. But this post is getting huge. I'm going to be working on a gigantic lore synopsis soon, after I gather all my thoughts. Sorry for the length.

Edited December 10, 2015 by AEP8FlyBoy

[Omnimorph]

It's sort of like a soul and vessel ordeal. We as the Tenno had no idea that we weren't the Warframes until we awoke and saw ourselves slumped in front of us. The "Surrogates" as they are referred in the quest, are the actual beings inside the Warframes, and we as Tenno seemingly control them to a point. Although in mission, our Operators speak to us as if they have no such jurisdiction over our movements. Telling us things like. "Let's go." and "This will be easier if we don't alert them." They use the pronouns "We" and "Us" quite often.

 

If I recall correctly, the Tenno are bonded to the Surrogates inside the Warframes quite strongly, it would suggest that the bond that the Stalker shared with his Tenno was strong as well. Until the Tenno betrayed the Orokin, the Stalker was probably just another puppet like all of the other Surrogates.

 

I'm pretty sure he's a rogue Surrogate, hunting us Tenno down for what we did to our creators. It would explain a lot wouldn't it? Not a lot was said about our friend the Stalker in the Second Dreams quest, but I can assume that this observation is fairly accurate. Based on what information we have received as of late.

 

The same can be said of the Lotus. We know that she is truly a "Sentient." Which would mean that she possessed a body that resembles the enemies we fight on the New Orokin Moon base tilesets. Is it too far of a stretch to think that the body we see her in now, isn't just a frame of her own?

 

I think maybe you're making more of a thing of "surrogate" as a separate entity inside the warframe than is really warranted from the dialogue - "surrogate" can figuratively refer simply to the whole warframe too, simply as a vehicle for the Tenno's consciousness, and I think that's probably what's intended in the dialogue (was it in the Margulis "echoes" or the Lotus bit?)

 

Although, I do agree that the organic part of the warframe (and it's pretty certain that it does have some kind of organic aspect to it - as SilentMoebius says, the "beast" in the Rhino codex is like the cow to the warframe's leather jacket) is probably literally the surrogate, in a sense - i.e. the part of the warframe that the Tenno's consciousness is actually "housed in" while the warframe is being piloted.  And it's probably made of Infested/technocyte stuffs.

 

Actually, when you think about it, maybe it's a bit like the Dalek (squidgy organic thing) inside the Dalek (machine) :)

 

I'm not sure whether the scripting of the in-game Tenno is just confused.  I get the feeling it's one of the more rushed aspects of the update. There really shouldn't be any sense of a literal child/teen about the commentary, nor any sense that the warframe experience, or the enemies, etc., are new, or that there's any doubt about how they behave, etc.  According to the lore the Tenno is very definitely old, experienced, etc., with whatever personality the player's been playing Warframe with all this time, so it's really been highly misleading (and for a lot of people who might not have been put off by the lore otherwise, extremely off-putting) to have some of the Tenno VO be literally "teeny" in the "Cowabunga dude!" sense.

[AEP8FlyBoy]

I think maybe you're making more of a thing of "surrogate" as a separate entity inside the warframe than is really warranted from the dialogue - "surrogate" can figuratively refer simply to the whole warframe too, simply as a vehicle for the Tenno's consciousness, and I think that's probably what's intended in the dialogue (was it in the Margulis "echoes" or the Lotus bit?)

 

Although, I do agree that the organic part of the warframe (and it's pretty certain that it does have some kind of organic aspect to it - as SilentMoebius says, the "beast" in the Rhino codex is like the cow to the warframe's leather jacket) is probably literally the surrogate, in a sense - i.e. the part of the warframe that the Tenno's consciousness is actually "housed in" while the warframe is being piloted.  And it's probably made of Infested/technocyte stuffs.

 

Actually, when you think about it, maybe it's a bit like the Dalek (squidgy organic thing) inside the Dalek (machine) :)

 

I'm not sure whether the scripting of the in-game Tenno is just confused.  I get the feeling it's one of the more rushed aspects of the update. There really shouldn't be any sense of a literal child/teen about the commentary, nor any sense that the warframe experience, or the enemies, etc., are new, or that there's any doubt about how they behave, etc.  According to the lore the Tenno is very definitely old, experienced, etc., with whatever personality the player's been playing Warframe with all this time, so it's really been highly misleading (and for a lot of people who might not have been put off by the lore otherwise, extremely off-putting) to have some of the Tenno VO be literally "teeny" in the "Cowabunga dude!" sense.

I agree with you on the Operator's and their awkward way of saying things.

 

The line I was referring to in reference to the "Surrogates" was from the Lotus, when you returned to your Liset/Orbiter and finished powering up the Somatic Link.

 

I'm not sure if it's a literal surrogate body made up of infested flesh, or if it is indeed some sort of being that can handle the powers be channeled through it.

 

Let's assume that it is a body made up of random pieces of infested. How would that explain what the Stalker is? He is most definitely a "surrogate" without an operator. He is taking it upon himself or itself to exact his or its revenge.

 

Surely, the Stalker isn't just a old Warframe possessed by an entity who wants revenge for what the Tenno did to the Orokin under the guide of the Lotus. But I can't draw any other conclusions as to what exactly this mysterious character is. He can speak. Just not like us, it is currently unknown to me how he is speaking. He probably doesn't posses any means of actual verbal communication, but perhaps he is speaking to us through some sort of mind meld. Kind of like the Tenno talk to us from their Orbiters via Transference.

 

I dunno... This is all speculative though, guess we gotta wait for future quests for DE to answer stuff. I'm expecting more big bombs to be dropped. Can't wait to figure out just what the Lotus, Stalker and Surrogates are.

Edited December 10, 2015 by AEP8FlyBoy

[AmeMatsukaze]

If I may add some input, when the stalker sees the operator and looks at his hand I took it as him being an operator without his frame. Even without a frame the operator has abilities . I also think his outfit further contributes to him being a human from a ship probably other than the zariman. I recall him saying "you're probably thinking "was I one of these things?"" Implying that he had the same thought. Stalker=human without a frame which would explain how he knows so much about them. Also our operators are the tenno and not our frames referring to the stalker saying "a puppet riding on tenno strings"

[AEP8FlyBoy]

Yes, the operators are the Tenno, the puppetmasters. The Warframes/whatever are inside the warframes are the puppets.

Edited December 10, 2015 by AEP8FlyBoy

[Mushen_Namtar]

Every single Tenno could wear any warframe, just like the players could before The Second Dream (and still can, albeit now knowing that they aren't the warframes themselves). No, the vast majority of them didn't care in the slightest about the warframes' apparent gender (although, all these people with "Can we have genderbent warframes" threads...).  

You see, Tenno actually aren't human kids, despite their misleading appearance, so they are kinda above being afraid of inhabiting a warframe of opposite gender. Also, warframes don't procreate or behave in accordance with masculine/feminine social roles, thus it almost doesn't matter. 

Edited December 10, 2015 by Mushen_Namtar

[Omnimorph]

 

I dunno... This is all speculative though, guess we gotta wait for future quests for DE to answer stuff. I'm expecting more big bombs to be dropped. Can't wait to figure out just what the Lotus, Stalker and Surrogates are.

 

Oh yeah, there are still lots of interesting and unanswered lore questions to ponder over!

 

Re. the "what the warframe is made of" question - well, isn't it obvious?  We make the things in our Foundry! :)

 

So, the components are things like Ferrite, Gallium, Plastids, polymers etc.  (So metal and plastic types of things).  Then circuits,control modules and the like (so computer stuff). Then, with the helmet we always have Neural Sensors, which seem to be something to do with Infested tech, and as the name suggests, probably something to do with brain tissue, or something that communicates with brain tissue.  And sometimes we have Neurodes in the construction too, again a kind of Infested-related tech.

 

So that's why I'm saying: the bulk of the warframe is plainly some kind of powerful, highly refined, extremely high tech (because fast, agile, etc.) robot construct, with some kind of organic/Infested components in them too, and those organic aspects are probably the more precise sense of "surrogate" that you're looking for, i.e.the bit that actually holds the Tenno's consciousness.

[(XBOX)Lorewalker1022]

@OP - lol...I just wanted to say despite your efforts to put spoiler in your header...your following statement of who wore what warframe kind of spoils it lol.

 

I'm personally not mad about it, but just letting you know.

[Lightsmith]

Search the forums, that will show what Tenno thought they were.

Perhaps it was like a Dream and in a dream things can seem to make sense even if they really don't.

[Omnimorph]

@OP - lol...I just wanted to say despite your efforts to put spoiler in your header...your following statement of who wore what warframe kind of spoils it lol.

 

I'm personally not mad about it, but just letting you know.

 

 

Actually, I think it's ok, because the lore has always been that the Tenno is SOMETHING that's IN the warframe (in some sense of "in"). 

[Mak_Gohae]

I think they thought they were in the Warframes, or that the Warframes were built around them, such that the Warframes were like an outer layer or shell.

 

Yeah, so does that mean that only boys wore boy frames? If the frames were built around them?

 

Now we fast forward to current times, we can switch frames. Why didnt the operators ever wondered how they looked inside the suits?

 

We can guess they were brainwashed not to think about it but we have to wait for the game to explain this because this quest didnt. The quest just said, "Hey! You are a kid! Bye!"

[OniDax]

Yeah, so does that mean that only boys wore boy frames? If the frames were built around them?

 

Now we fast forward to current times, we can switch frames. Why didnt the operators ever wondered how they looked inside the suits?

 

We can guess they were brainwashed not to think about it but we have to wait for the game to explain this because this quest didnt. The quest just said, "Hey! You are a kid! Bye!"

 

I'd think so.

[Mak_Gohae]

You do realise the tenno weren't even aware they were tiny human stuck in a pod on the moon right ?

They thought they were the warframes.

 

Yes, that's what im asking.

Since they thought they were the frame, did boys only used only frames?

How did it work currently with switching frames?

[Revenant102]

I'm not sure that we were conscious of our biological gender while in the second dream, and for all we know the operator thought of themself as a kind of spirit that inhabited different frames, admittedly, that's kinda what we are, the spirit that animates the frame and all. Or each time we switched it reset the link and we 'woke up' again.

Edited December 14, 2015 by Revenant102

[SpicyDinosaur]

This question is perhaps too deep for a video game as it delves into the concept of gender identity and and sex assignment, and really, I can't even say 

 

gay

 

in region, so the likelihood of going even further and discussing gender roles and advanced gender theory, (which the OP is failing miserably at and I do not feel I am qualified to steer him best,) sounds like a horrible idea.

[Morec0]

It was likely Dream logic, you don't question it.

 

Which COULD have been nice, but... God does it suck all the immersion and intensity out of the game's story.

[Fumpr]

I like to think that the question never came across their minds since it was, as the lotus puts it "a dream" and although it was a lucid dream alot of the time stuff like that isnt something you even think about during a dream. thats just my view on it.

[goodlight7]

So question.  When you first start the game..there is a cryopod. And in it is what?   A tenno/child/abomilnation asleep, and then down drops a warframe...but you can't control a warframe from a cryopod.  So what the hell just happened.  Did the second dream break the very first quest/mission?