[Spoiler] Wait.... Who Wore What Warframe?

[Kaotyke]

So question.  When you first start the game..there is a cryopod. And in it is what?   A tenno/child/abomilnation asleep, and then down drops a warframe...but you can't control a warframe from a cryopod.  So what the hell just happened.  Did the second dream break the very first quest/mission?

No, the Warframe was dormant, "turned-off" for the lack of better wording, its like you were sleeping a dreamless sleep. Then your Warframe was taken out of stasis and you started dreaming, lucidily.

[RoadyRoad]

They didn't "think" anything about gender in that kinda way op.

To them the warframe was just the shape of their body, they didn't have a male or female mind as ur thinking about it from an adult mind who grew up with strict differences between the 2.

Imagine a blank robot with no mind, then u give that robot a sword and download into they heads a stance like Astral twilight and gave them a directive to use it on what their told. They don't differentiate how it was made, just how to use it.

If u read Descartes and Hume, they both debate the human kinds sense of "I". Might give u a Lil bit of insight.

[Noble_One]

You do realise the tenno weren't even aware they were tiny human stuck in a pod on the moon right ?

They thought they were the warframes.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

this is why its called THE SECOND DREAM!!!

[vrdwrst]

I'd like to think that the children were first given one prime to match their fighting style, but soon many frames were being mass produced for many Tenno, and for varying situations. There has to be a reason we only see non primes come out of the pods apart from gameplay (balance) vs. lore.

If this is going to be a super speculative thread, Warframes have the organic health type of Flesh inside them. Use that as you will.

[iuki.]

So is it okie to whip out a sharpie and put funny eyebrows/mustaches on my motionless operator sitting there like a couch potatoe in the back of the bus? lol. More on topic: It seems that warframes can be independant if I understand things correctly.

Edited December 15, 2015 by fizbit

[Amazerath]

Since they thought they were the frame, did boys only used only frames?

 

I agree with what the others said. I doubt the operators were aware of their own genders as they dreamed. If they were not aware, how could they make decisions about which gender to "pick"?

 

How did it work currently with switching frames?

 

That question will probably be answered once we gain access to those two locked doors inside the orbiter. We definitely need a place to store our weapons, gear and foundry items. So perhaps it is safe to assume we also need a place to store our warframes? If so, then that place will surely explain how we switch frames. But I don't think the switching process is much different from the one we do ourselves as players.

 

 

So question.  When you first start the game..there is a cryopod. And in it is what?   A tenno/child/abomilnation asleep, and then down drops a warframe...but you can't control a warframe from a cryopod.  So what the hell just happened.  Did the second dream break the very first quest/mission?

 

I'm not sure I understand the question. Are you referring to the scene at 1:50 in this video?

 

I see only one pod, which is the one Excalibur himself drops from. I assume his operator is controlling him from the Reservoir, which is still hidden at this point. Am I missing something?

[vrdwrst]

^

Warframes have to go into cryopods because they are half biological. Same reason why their breath fogs in cold weather.

[brucifer1]

If the operator (us) thought that we were in the warframe, then how did we change frames up until now? How is it that in discovering new blueprints and building them in our foundry we never realized that there is no room inside for a person to "wear" it? The second dream story would make sense if up until that point we were limited to one frame per player, but that was far from the case.I think there are pieces to the puzzle that we have still not been given.

[EmptyDevil]

If I may add some input, when the stalker sees the operator and looks at his hand I took it as him being an operator without his frame. Even without a frame the operator has abilities . I also think his outfit further contributes to him being a human from a ship probably other than the zariman. I recall him saying "you're probably thinking "was I one of these things?"" Implying that he had the same thought. Stalker=human without a frame which would explain how he knows so much about them. Also our operators are the tenno and not our frames referring to the stalker saying "a puppet riding on tenno strings"

 

What? How would he be an Operator without a Warframe at that point? He is clearly using a Warframe.

 

That wasn't Stalker saying any of the dialog you're mentioning - it was Hunhow.

 

"No self, no sense, no death. Just a metal puppet, dangling on Tenno strings. Only the Tenno's death will end your despair."

 

"All your dread-long life, you've waited for this moment... but you're asking yourself... Was i one of these wretched things? You know the answer. You still hate them... you still hate... yourself."

[Leavith]

I just want to say I was ready for this...I only use male warframes...or to be more exact warframes that resemble male and are intended to look male.

Have no female like features on them.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Leavith

[Amazerath]

If the operator (us) thought that we were in the warframe, then how did we change frames up until now? How is it that in discovering new blueprints and building them in our foundry we never realized that there is no room inside for a person to "wear" it? The second dream story would make sense if up until that point we were limited to one frame per player, but that was far from the case.I think there are pieces to the puzzle that we have still not been given.

 

They did not realize anything because they were dreaming. When you dream you don't think, you don't choose and you don't ask. When you dream you just watch. You can't realize something without thinking about it and you can't think about something if your mind is asleep.

[(PSN)Ana_Nuann]

It's called gameplay story segregation, and pretty much every game does it.

[brucifer1]

They did not realize anything because they were dreaming. When you dream you don't think, you don't choose and you don't ask. When you dream you just watch. You can't realize something without thinking about it and you can't think about something if your mind is asleep.

 

We have not been "watching". The Lutus described it as a LUCID dream. We made tactical decisions, and were aware of all of our actions, that would be necessary for us to be effective in controlling our war frames in combat. We however felt as if we were in the warframe (our avatar so to speak) and not that we were separate from it. This makes sense except for the fact that we found and built warfames, and switched frames during that time. It should have been apparent that we were not inside the frame.

 

I believe that DE is aware of this, and that as Steve has mentioned there will be new surprises. Some things don't quite gell and I think that is intentional. I honestly think there is more going on than has been revealed to us thus far.

[Amazerath]

We have not been "watching". The Lutus described it as a LUCID dream. We made tactical decisions, and were aware of all of our actions, that would be necessary for us to be effective in controlling our war frames in combat. We however felt as if we were in the warframe (our avatar so to speak) and not that we were separate from it. This makes sense except for the fact that we found and built warfames, and switched frames during that time. It should have been apparent that we were not inside the frame.

 

I believe that DE is aware of this, and that as Steve has mentioned there will be new surprises. Some things don't quite gell and I think that is intentional. I honestly think there is more going on than has been revealed to us thus far.

 

This is a bit complicated to explain, but I'll give it a try:

 

You are not the operator. You are a player. You are awake. You played a game with warframes, grineer, battles and tactics. So from your perspective all those things were real (real inside the game).

 

But what about your operator? Your operator was asleep. Your operator was dreaming about what he "wanted to be". Inside this dream your operator saw warframes, grineer, battles and tactics. So from your operator's perspective none of those things were real.

 

It does not matter whether the tenno had lucid dreams or not. A lucid dream is still a dream and dreams are not supposed to be real. So everything your operator did up to this point was done under the impression that reality was actually a dream. This is why the tenno would not have stopped to ponder about genders, switching frames or anything of the sort. It was all just a dream to them.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Amazerath

[Omnimorph]

When you dream you don't think, you don't choose and you don't ask. When you dream you just watch.

 

Not in a lucid dream.  I think DE used that term deliberately.  In a lucid dream, you wake up in the dream, so you do actually think, feel, deliberate, will, etc., pretty much as you do normally.  Only what you experience is whacky, and somewhat malleable to your will.

 

(Side note: the whole notion of magic - which would probably never even occur to anyone who had faced only the relentlessly "hard" nature of waking reality - comes from lucid dreams and from a kind of lucid dreaming you can do from the waking state (called "astral travel" in occult literature).  The famous "out of the body experiences" are probably connected with this too - in scientific, rational terms, these things are an artifact of how the brain creates an internal model of the external world based on "samples" of the external world that it gets through the senses.  Dreaming, lucid dreams and astral travel (and actually probably also experiences on hallucinogens) all probably have something to do with that modelling process "freewheeling" and being temporarily disconnected from sensory input and from the critical part of the mind (to which it's normally connected in waking reality - i.e. in waking reality, you have "impressions" of things, but if there's any doubt, in the sense of what you think the thing is not seeming to fit in with the rest of what you know, you test it).)

 

Anyway, I think the use of "dream" and "lucid dream" is partly figurative and partly meant you to get some sense, some echo of what it was like for your Tenno living all those years under the impression that they were their warframe (or something inside the warframe in the Iron Man sense).  (Which of course is what we players thought all that time too.)

 

In that context, the sense of gender would be according to warframe gender, one wouldn't have imposed a sense of gender on the warframe, precisely because one was unaware that one had a real body somewhere else; one would have gotten one's sense of gender from the warframe.

 

Which does leave the question of switching warframes bit confused, it's true.  But to that extent I think your explanation is probably sort of right too.

 

IOW, it's somewhere inbetween straight dreaming (where you are a pure observer, as you say) and lucid dreaming (where you have agency).  It might just be that switching warframes was subject to "dream logic", so you just accepted the gender of the warframe you're in; while at the same time, the "lucid" part of it would be that you retain a sense of agency in that you are dealing with other Tenno and co-creating a Tenno culture with them, you are dealing with the world around you, with combat, etc., in a rational way, through the dream (because the "dream" in fact wasn't a dream, it was in fact real world events).

 

It's perhaps easier to see if you think of it serially.  You fall asleep, you dream, you wake up in the dream, inside (or as) a warframe body.  It just so happens that's the real situation (albeit the real situation is that you're "inside" the warframe's body in an Avatar sense, by consciousness transference via VR substitution of warframe inputs and outputs for your real body's inputs and outputs).  But it feels like a lucid dream to you.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Omnimorph

[AM-Bunny]

To the Tenno, it was all a dream.

 

Have you ever had a dream that was incredibly strange and nonsensical, but within the context of the dream - while you were having it, it inexplicably made perfect sense?

 

There you have it. That's why they never questioned their ability to swap Warframes despite believing they were the Warframe. That's why they never questioned their gender, etc. It was a dream, an they just rolled with it.

[SugarShow]

Maybe the dream is tenno having a body outside the frame.

Edited December 15, 2015 by SugarShow

[(PSN)PillarOfWar]

Or maybe there are self confirming settings and thoughts while on mission like they were trained to do by the orikin.

Army do that S#&$ all the time in command centers.

Also if I had a dollar for each (spoiler) thread on the forums I'd have a few hundred bucks. I really hope the console crew is avoiding this place.

I wish I did

[Amazerath]

Not in a lucid dream.  I think DE used that term deliberately.  In a lucid dream, you wake up in the dream, so you do actually think, feel, deliberate, will, etc., pretty much as you do normally.  Only what you experience is whacky, and somewhat malleable to your will.

[...]

 

As far as I know, the definition of "lucid dream" is "a dream in which you are aware of your own dream". So I don't think lucid dreams necessarily give you decisive power over what happens inside the dream. They simply make you aware that you are indeed dreaming.

 

But even if I'm wrong it does not matter. Lucid or not, a dream is still a dream. And I think we can all agree that dreams are not real. So like you said at the end of your post, the tenno would not be aware that their dreams were actually mirroring reality. They would only realize this after waking up. So all these questions about genders and switching frames don't really apply.

 

Let's also not forget that the tenno were supposed to be dreaming "not of what you are, but of what you want to be". They were deliberately ignoring or being encouraged to ignore their own identities. So they would not question their own fantasies. What kind of kid criticizes his own imagination for not being realistic? That would not make any sense to me.

[Leavith]

SOOOOOOOooooooo.......oooooOOOOOOOO

We went to deep into this whole dream scenario

I say we 1st look at why we were put in the dream in the 1st place

Will call it the 1st dream

I want to say this was what happened because Adopted mom wanted us to be able to control our powers I mean we talk about the 2nd dream and all but what was the 1st dream?

After all we scar her and blinded her really badly and in all honesty we couldn't control our self only putting us to sleep placed us at peace and keep our power under control.I want to call this the 1st dream why because in our tutorial introduction one of the of topic question lotus asked us an answer is the signing.

That she sang to us so in other words we could hear her singing that calmed us.If we didn't know we were a warframe but we woke up every so often we would know our gender. since she had to put us to sleep

Then we can suggest that the 2nd dream was actually the Lucid dreaming were we where placed consciously inside the Warframe and we learn to control it and control ourselves

Remember the reason why we loose our memory isn't for being in cryosleep for to long or because we are dreaming is because we were awaken so abruptly from the cryosleep leaving our memory in a disarray

WHOES Memory I may Ask those the Warframe carry memory?or those the operator?

In clue to what extent we remember is all question

But hypothetically the Operator remember well what a warframe is since he recognize it quickly when he left the pod on the moon.

Just looking at the physical examination of the things that happened leaving what happened in the dream but looking at what happened outside the dream we can say that Hey Warframe are suits we can switch between but they aren't our real bodies...but we cannot remember were our bodies were our what our bodies are.

All we have are suits we craft we knew to some extent our past but our memories are fuzzy on what happened in the past but even people who lost their memory know

their name at least and gender.

Of course it might be inconvenient to the Operator changing bodies specially if is between warframe that personify different gender but hey you are already switching bodies and you don't have a real body no more so what does it matter.

[SilentMobius]

We don't have much to go on but my current assumption is:

 

Pre-Cryo Tenno only used one Warframe, they thought it was their body.

 

Post-Cryo-Tenno have forgotten everything, they don't who or what they were, changing Warframes was just another thing they didn't understand, they just knew it worked.

[Amazerath]

We don't have much to go on but my current assumption is:

 

Pre-Cryo Tenno only used one Warframe, they thought it was their body.

 

Post-Cryo-Tenno have forgotten everything, they don't who or what they were, changing Warframes was just another thing they didn't understand, they just knew it worked.

 

If you are talking about our tenno operators then I don't understand. The operators remember the Orokin, the Infested, their own training (tenno schools) and all sorts of things from their past. The operators might not remember everything, but they do seem to remember a lot.

[SilentMobius]

If you are talking about our tenno operators then I don't understand. The operators remember the Orokin, the Infested, their own training (tenno schools) and all sorts of things from their past. The operators might not remember everything, but they do seem to remember a lot.

 

After the Second Dream they do, before that point we have no indication they remembered anything.

Every single Weapon and Warframe we pick up we needed to re-build affinity with.

 

Imagine being in a coma that gave you amnesia, It's distinctly possible that you wouldn't begin to recover until you woke from the coma. In the same way I think the Tenno only started remembering _after_ they were released from the reservoir.

[Omni_Omega]

I like to think the revelation created MANY, VERY gender confused Tenno

[(PSN)obsidiancurse]

As far as I know, the definition of "lucid dream" is "a dream in which you are aware of your own dream". So I don't think lucid dreams necessarily give you decisive power over what happens inside the dream. They simply make you aware that you are indeed dreaming.

 

But even if I'm wrong it does not matter. Lucid or not, a dream is still a dream. And I think we can all agree that dreams are not real. So like you said at the end of your post, the tenno would not be aware that their dreams were actually mirroring reality. They would only realize this after waking up. So all these questions about genders and switching frames don't really apply.

 

Let's also not forget that the tenno were supposed to be dreaming "not of what you are, but of what you want to be". They were deliberately ignoring or being encouraged to ignore their own identities. So they would not question their own fantasies. What kind of kid criticizes his own imagination for not being realistic? That would not make any sense to me.

In a lucid dream you can influence the events of the dream, at least that is my limited experience.

Usually when you realise you are dreaming you wake up but if you can remain in the dream yo should be able to influence it, I've managed it twice myself.