Hitsu San's Workshop - Octavia Youkai is finally here!

[S0V3REiGN]

Man, I was upset not seeing Ash on that list. How is that too human?!? By the Lotus! :O

[Stonehenge]

At least, as you said it's a very direct and clear feedback, i m not psychic but we have good chances to see it accepted next round.

[tnkfreexx3]

So I guess the charr like creature(guild wars 2 race) is also a no for warframe aesthetic. 

Come to think of it, valkyr the official cat frame does has far less actual resemblance of a cat, compare with bai hu.

Sad that bai hu cant make it this round, but with your talent the ver.2 will for sure be more bada ss!

 

[Stonehenge]

33 minutes ago, tnkfreexx3 said:

So I guess the charr like creature(guild wars 2 race) is also a no for warframe aesthetic. 

Come to think of it, valkyr the official cat frame does has far less actual resemblance of a cat, compare with bai hu.

Sad that bai hu cant make it this round, but with your talent the ver.2 will for sure be more bad &#!!

 

Yeah, GuildWars aesthetics is light years oout of the topic, i think :)

Valkyr is a strange mix between a feral kitty and ...well a valkyrie. Skinned alive. Weird.

[HitsuSan]

The guildwars 2 design is very upfront while warframe has a design that extremely subtle and hidden so making an actual tiger face doesn't fit, i should hide the fact that's a tiger but showing it in some parts at the same time. Most warframes have this hidden feature anyway so it's not much of a problem, most of my skins are made like that too (with the exception of Visage, there's no animal behind that).

[tnkfreexx3]

2 hours ago, Stonehenge said:

Yeah, GuildWars aesthetics is light years oout of the topic, i think :)

Valkyr is a strange mix between a feral kitty and ...well a valkyrie. Skinned alive. Weird.

What I meant is the feline-like humanoid, the man with a cat face that sort of thing XD

Not really referring the general concept art of GuildWar as a whole.

 

24 minutes ago, HitsuSan said:

The guildwars 2 design is very upfront while warframe has a design that extremely subtle and hidden so making an actual tiger face doesn't fit, i should hide the fact that's a tiger but showing it in some parts at the same time. Most warframes have this hidden feature anyway so it's not much of a problem, most of my skins are made like that too (with the exception of Visage, there's no animal behind that).

Yeah I was surprised to find that you choose tiger for ash when I saw BaiHu the 1st time, since to me he always more of an insect theme frame. I think his deluxe skin still seems inherit that style, that mantis arm like hidden blade is amazing.. 

Anyway I can understand that you want to separate your work a bit further from DE original design, beside a space ninja with a tiger mask still pretty intimidating too XD

[Shad0wWatcher]

I do hope you'll be able to keep the blindfold, it was such a badass touch.

[Rolunde]

Huh, too human too tiger? I'd been getting a very strong Samurai Oni mask vibe off it myself.

Spoiler

Oh well like others have said I expect the revised version will be even more terrific. 

And super excited for Emperor Frost, congrats!

[HitsuSan]

1 hour ago, tnkfreexx3 said:

Yeah I was surprised to find that you choose tiger for ash when I saw BaiHu the 1st time, since to me he always more of an insect theme frame. I think his deluxe skin still seems inherit that style, that mantis arm like hidden blade is amazing.. 

Anyway I can understand that you want to separate your work a bit further from DE original design, beside a space ninja with a tiger mask still pretty intimidating too XD

That's so you guys can have a completely different look to choose :>

 

42 minutes ago, Shad0wWatcher said:

I do hope you'll be able to keep the blindfold, it was such a badass touch.

Oh yeah, i'd like to keep it but it's hard to find a way so that it doesn't look too human with that. The blindfold is tricking your brain to think that there are eyes under it so it looks way more human than it does if i just remove it and leave that space blank. I know it's super weird but that's the kind of problems i have to solve every time i make a design like that (you can imagine how hard it was to give Visage a hat).

 

4 minutes ago, Rolunde said:

Huh, too human too tiger? I'd been getting a very strong Samurai Oni mask vibe off it myself.

  Reveal hidden contents

Oh well like others have said I expect the revised version will be even more terrific. 

And super excited for Emperor Frost, congrats!

Oh yeah it's a tiger mixed with a samurai armor headpiece with a blindfold ^^ anyway no worries, i'll make it work.

Thanks! :D

[Azrael]

2 minutes ago, HitsuSan said:

(you can imagine how hard it was to give Visage a hat).

Well, if I'm being honest, that hat was one of the main reasons I noticed the skin, and was one of the reasons I bought it. So I'm glad you managed to include it.  :)

Looking forward to Bai Hu 2.0!

[Shad0wWatcher]

11 hours ago, HitsuSan said:

Oh yeah, i'd like to keep it but it's hard to find a way so that it doesn't look too human with that. The blindfold is tricking your brain to think that there are eyes under it so it looks way more human than it does if i just remove it and leave that space blank. I know it's super weird but that's the kind of problems i have to solve every time i make a design like that (you can imagine how hard it was to give Visage a hat).

But was the helmet their main concern? Or was there something else about the skin that also didn't sit well with them? Also perhaps it's just because the fact that it's a very recognizable feline face, cause that what i thought the first moment i saw it, like you said DE always puts very subtle hints to what it could've been based on, cause if the blindfold was the problem then Mesa wouldn't have one either xD, or Limbo wouldn't have a hat that comes off either. Cause i use the Locust helmet on Ash Prime specifically cause it looks like the most human shaped helmet.

[HitsuSan]

4 minutes ago, Shad0wWatcher said:

But was the helmet their main concern? Or was there something else about the skin that also didn't sit well with them? Also perhaps it's just because the fact that it's a very recognizable feline face, cause that what i thought the first moment i saw it, like you said DE always puts very subtle hints to what it could've been based on, cause if the blindfold was the problem then Mesa wouldn't have one either xD, or Limbo wouldn't have a hat that comes off either. Cause i use the Locust helmet on Ash Prime specifically cause it looks like the most human shaped helmet.

Yeah, just the face on the helmet specifically. Mesa's bandana is more integrated on the helmet, maybe i'll do something similar instead of having a blinfold on top.

[Evanescent]

How do you handle collabs? I wasn't aware of the possibility until I saw the officium (which, once it rotates properly, have me banging my head in anguish for not being on steam) but now that I do, I was thinking of dusting off some old synadana concepts I had and look for possible sculptors. Any advice or direction you could give me?

[HitsuSan]

4 minutes ago, Evanescent said:

How do you handle collabs? I wasn't aware of the possibility until I saw the officium (which, once it rotates properly, have me banging my head in anguish for not being on steam) but now that I do, I was thinking of dusting off some old synadana concepts I had and look for possible sculptors. Any advice or direction you could give me?

I don't really do collabs cause i don't need somebody else's design (since in most of the cases i'm more qualified to make them myself). Of course i'm a freelance artist so i take paid jobs to create models or art for games but for something like Tennogen i prefer to make my own. Officium syandana was a different deal since AGGP can bring marketing into the table, i was way more curious to see if the sales could have a bigger impact if the product is "branded" let's say (turns out not really). Though syandanas are more of a fun project for me, if you've noticed all of those i've made have some crazy vfx going on and it's a quick way to design something that'll be ready and done in one week.

Let's say if you're really good at concept art and you can make professional concepts for me to just follow and craft i might be interested, if not then i would have to fill the design flaws myself or remake most of it and in that case there's no reason for me to share the profits with someone else.

 

As for advice or directions i don't really know cause i don't know your skill level ^^ one thing truthful for everyone is to become good at perspective and do multiple angles if you want to make a concept that's good for other people to understand (especially if it's for a 3d object)

 

I hope it's helpful :) 

[Evanescent]

48 minutes ago, HitsuSan said:

I don't really do collabs cause i don't need somebody else's design (since in most of the cases i'm more qualified to make them myself). Of course i'm a freelance artist so i take paid jobs to create models or art for games but for something like Tennogen i prefer to make my own. Officium syandana was a different deal since AGGP can bring marketing into the table, i was way more curious to see if the sales could have a bigger impact if the product is "branded" let's say (turns out not really). Though syandanas are more of a fun project for me, if you've noticed all of those i've made have some crazy vfx going on and it's a quick way to design something that'll be ready and done in one week.

Let's say if you're really good at concept art and you can make professional concepts for me to just follow and craft i might be interested, if not then i would have to fill the design flaws myself or remake most of it and in that case there's no reason for me to share the profits with someone else.

 

As for advice or directions i don't really know cause i don't know your skill level ^^ one thing truthful for everyone is to become good at perspective and do multiple angles if you want to make a concept that's good for other people to understand (especially if it's for a 3d object)

 

I hope it's helpful :) 

Ah, that was insightful. I'll post an exaample, and if it's not too much bother, please give me your thoughts!

Spoiler

 

 

[HitsuSan]

Art wise or as a concept?

[Kyotra]

Too human? Man that sounds like bull, if Mesa's default is acceptable I don't know how the hell Bai-Hu doesn't work.

[Evanescent]

23 hours ago, HitsuSan said:

Art wise or as a concept?

Both, please.

Edit: animation wise, that's a vestige of the original concept I proposed. Given the Sari syandana's hangup I don't think animation would work. 

[HitsuSan]

18 hours ago, Kyotra said:

Too human? Man that sounds like bull, if Mesa's default is acceptable I don't know how the hell Bai-Hu doesn't work.

Maybe it's the cat nose and what it looks like a mouth, with the suggestion of eyes behind the blindfold (even if there are tiny stripes of glow behind it that are supposed to be his actual eyes sensors). Anyway i'll reshape it, not big of a problem ;)

33 minutes ago, Evanescent said:

Both, please.

Edit: animation wise, that's a vestige of the original concept I proposed. Given the Sari syandana's hangup I don't think animation would work. 

Art wise it's too confusing, it could be much cleaner. It's very important to be as clean as possible when you make a concept cause the people that have to look at it are supposed to get what the shapes are straight away instead of having to guess. Even the little shapes you can't just sketch a quick blocking and call it done cause somebody has to read that an make it into a fully detailed 3d model so it's not helpful if it's not fully drawn, even better if it's in perspective or various view angles although not always necessary if you do your first image already in perspective and you're dealing with an experienced modeler. If you want to see an example of the best concept art for production i've ever seen you can take a look at Halo5 armor concepts (google it), i've done similar armor designs in the past for a game and it's extremely hard to do... and my works were not even close to that level of detail O_o so that's the level you could aspire to reach after 10 years or more of experience lol.

Concept wise it's kinda ok but not quite there, i see what you're trying to do and i can imagine it so it's working as a concept but you're not taking in consideration some aspects there. First of them is proportions, good artists always alternate between big and small shapes inside every single component of an object, you need resting areas and the long tubes are not really cool to look at cause they're so small that you couldn't fit any significant detail inside of them so you might as well not have them or use them as a decoration instead of a support structure, even more if they're supposed to bend and curve with the syandana physics. I really like the central part that holds the rest of it but it's not enough detailed and the energy can't be just labeled as "energy" lol, that would mean that your 3d artist would have to figure out what to put in there from scratch and it's not even very clear what shapes those wings should have and how many of them there are. 

It's a nice start for an amateur :) but it needs more work if you want for a 3d artist to be able to make it as you're imaging it. Keep in mind though that there are restrictions in what you can and cannot do with those syandanas, a good example of that was the Sari syandana 1.0 that couldn't be put into the game but after the rework the 2.0 finally made it cause it was much better to implement. You can find some documentation on the tennogen help section in the warframe website for that ;)

 

A little suggestion, draw it big so you can have more space for details and shapes! And yeah it takes a long time to make a good concept, you would have to be very patient... remember it takes me 1 month and a half to complete a skin and i work all day every day so it's only normal if it takes you days to make a good concept for a syandana, don't be scared of that! Also it usually takes a couple of sketches and tries before making a concept that works, especially if you don't have a ton of experience but even at that stage still takes some trial and error.

 

I hope it's helpful :)

[Evanescent]

24 minutes ago, HitsuSan said:

Maybe it's the cat nose and what it looks like a mouth, with the suggestion of eyes behind the blindfold (even if there are tiny stripes of glow behind it that are supposed to be his actual eyes sensors). Anyway i'll reshape it, not big of a problem ;)

Art wise it's too confusing, it could be much cleaner. It's very important to be as clean as possible when you make a concept cause the people that have to look at it are supposed to get what the shapes are straight away instead of having to guess. Even the little shapes you can't just sketch a quick blocking and call it done cause somebody has to read that an make it into a fully detailed 3d model so it's not helpful if it's not fully drawn, even better if it's in perspective or various view angles although not always necessary if you do your first image already in perspective and you're dealing with an experienced modeler. If you want to see an example of the best concept art for production i've ever seen you can take a look at Halo5 armor concepts (google it), i've done similar armor designs in the past for a game and it's extremely hard to do... and my works were not even close to that level of detail O_o so that's the level you could aspire to reach after 10 years or more of experience lol.

Concept wise it's kinda ok but not quite there, i see what you're trying to do and i can imagine it so it's working as a concept but you're not taking in consideration some aspects there. First of them is proportions, good artists always alternate between big and small shapes inside every single component of an object, you need resting areas and the long tubes are not really cool to look at cause they're so small that you couldn't fit any significant detail inside of them so you might as well not have them or use them as a decoration instead of a support structure, even more if they're supposed to bend and curve with the syandana physics. I really like the central part that holds the rest of it but it's not enough detailed and the energy can't be just labeled as "energy" lol, that would mean that your 3d artist would have to figure out what to put in there from scratch and it's not even very clear what shapes those wings should have and how many of them there are. 

It's a nice start for an amateur :) but it needs more work if you want for a 3d artist to be able to make it as you're imaging it. Keep in mind though that there are restrictions in what you can and cannot do with those syandanas, a good example of that was the Sari syandana 1.0 that couldn't be put into the game but after the rework the 2.0 finally made it cause it was much better to implement. You can find some documentation on the tennogen help section in the warframe website for that ;)

 

A little suggestion, draw it big so you can have more space for details and shapes! And yeah it takes a long time to make a good concept, you would have to be very patient... remember it takes me 1 month and a half to complete a skin and i work all day every day so it's only normal if it takes you days to make a good concept for a syandana, don't be scared of that! Also it usually takes a couple of sketches and tries before making a concept that works, especially if you don't have a ton of experience but even at that stage still takes some trial and error.

 

I hope it's helpful :)

Ah that was a great read.

It was kind of a quick sketch as a reply for a thread that somehow blew up! Wasn't expecting such an in-depth look and now I'm embarrassed to present a scrawl to you >///<

But yeah, really appreciate the time you took. I'll read up and do some clean concepting. 

Thanks!

[HitsuSan]

Just now, Evanescent said:

Ah that was a great read.

It was kind of a quick sketch as a reply for a thread that somehow blew up! Wasn't expecting such an in-depth look and now I'm embarrassed to present a scrawl to you >///<

But yeah, really appreciate the time you took. I'll read up and do some clean concepting. 

Thanks!

Hey i take every artist seriously cause i would have loved to have somebody to ask for this kind of feedback while i was learning so now i try to help as much as possible ;) You're welcome!

[Senketsu_]

19 hours ago, Kyotra said:

Too human? Man that sounds like bull, if Mesa's default is acceptable I don't know how the hell Bai-Hu doesn't work.

and mirage. And the banshee deluxe skin. Both have "Faces"

[Tricky5hift]

Bai Hu means White Lake in Chinese, right?

[Azrael]

1 hour ago, HitsuSan said:

I hope it's helpful :)

That was a surprisingly in-depth and interesting bit of feedback. I am completely useless in art, and even I felt like I learned something from that...

[Rolunde]

1 hour ago, Tricky5hift said:

Bai Hu means White Lake in Chinese, right?

White Tiger

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Tiger_(China)