So Should Loki Get Rebalanced?

[SlightVect]

Am not camplaning about his abilities. Am just saying they needs to level scalling with Loki. Because Loki is one oldest frame, back in U7. They were barely any dmg scaling. Now were in U18! Loki should have some sort dmg scale for disarm, like requires certain amount of dmg to remove enemies weapons.

But this small change would actually break any course of feasible modability for Loki.  There isn't much you can actually sub out for an intensify. Say that Disarm was based on powerstrength right. 

 

Core we'd by default need Narrow minded, Primed continuity, Stretch and over extended. Then we'd need intensify, Transient or Blind rage. Now here's where it gets tricky. 

 

Loki begins losing his survivability rapidly.  He's forced to give up Natural talent, streamline and a few other things, right? Not to mention energy costs sky rocket since he simply can't afford to run streamline without putting himself at risk. 

 

A top of that, keep in mind Over extended already hits his powerstrength so that's already kicked down to 40%. By that logic, we've successfully deleted Disarm as a skill, wounded his invis/survivability and made him garbage.  Butterfly effect, mates. 

[Ibro156]

But this small change would actually break any course of feasible modability for Loki.  There isn't much you can actually sub out for an intensify. Say that Disarm was based on powerstrength right. 

 

Core we'd by default need Narrow minded, Primed continuity, Stretch and over extended. Then we'd need intensify, Transient or Blind rage. Now here's where it gets tricky. 

 

Loki begins losing his survivability rapidly.  He's forced to give up Natural talent, streamline and a few other things, right? Not to mention energy costs sky rocket since he simply can't afford to run streamline without putting himself at risk. 

 

A top of that, keep in mind Over extended already hits his powerstrength so that's already kicked down to 40%. By that logic, we've successfully deleted Disarm as a skill, wounded his invis/survivability and made him garbage.  Butterfly effect, mates.

Well then, your going too have just balance it out.

But seriously his kit is too good. It the fact their no scaling for his abilities, or any mechnic for enemies when playing against invis warframes/companions

[-Pearl-]

From my experience playing with loki, I think he does need a rebalance.

His invisibility mixed with high efficiency and/or lots of energy drops is able to make just about any mission of any level a joke.

I think his disarm should be looked at because of its utility over nyx.

Switch teleport should maybe just be made into a straight up teleport or just looked at to make it better for allies. I can see ally switch being an augment instead.

Decoy needs a rework. With atlas on the table, a clone loki running about creating a huge distraction might be awesome.

[Jangkrik]

My personal opinion on Loki:

 

1. His Decoy.

It's ok. Not that useful, but still does its job properly.

 

2. His Invisibility.

It's certainly an amazing ability. But if you mod for invis, you sacrifice your disarm. So you can't exactly maximize both disarm and invis.

 

3. Switch TP.

An OK mobility tool. Not that good, but still useful.

 

4. His Radial Disarm.

An excellent CC. Not that strong due to the number of nullifiers in end game missions. Nullifiers are hard counters to Loki. 

 

Also, why do you guys want to nerf Loki anyway? You want another useless frame like the nerfed Mesa/Saryn? When DE nerf something, they always nerf it hard. 

 

Please, don't ruin someone's happiness with Loki just because you don't like the fact some frames are worse than Loki in certain conditions.

 

If you want to nerf him, nerf the Irradiating Disarm augment since it's trampling over Nyx's territory and almost make her Chaos obsolete.

Edited January 3, 2016 by Jangkrik

[Buzkyl]

 

4. His Radial Disarm.

An excellent CC. Not that strong due to the number of nullifiers in end game missions. Nullifiers are hard counters to Loki. 

 

Nullfiyer's counter every warframe ability. You can't use them to balance out Loki specifically. Also they are of 1 specific enemy type/faction. Loki does to Grineer what Mag does to Corpus. Also nothing is stopping Loki from going invisible and shooting down the bubble.

 

 

Is Loki OP? Certainly. That's because Invisibility and Disarm outright break enemy A.I.

[(PSN)supersocc11]

The enemy level range really has improved since then. It used to be the base level in the highest leveled mission was about 35.

Now, we're starting missions at level 80-100. Damage frames are dying off by then and CC frames are reigning supreme, now.

Back in level 35, Loki was rather useless in high density missions (until about an hour in), because the damage frames would just nuke the map anyway, and Nova would always provide CC to boot.

Atlas, excal, valkyr say hi to you...damage falling off by lvl 100? Nooooope.

[Ibro156]

The problem isn't Loki (kind of), but the illusion of it look OP.

It's how A.I react towards invisible warframes/companions. The A.I would clearly run pass Loki/Ash/Ivara, even if they touch the enemy.

His Alt has no scaling on enemies. Even Vauban, Nova, Excal and et. Having time limit, or how much dmg they can do.

You can argue that Loki is squishy warframe, that can be one shifted at high levels. You can easily say that for Excal, he can go down in few hits.

The build for standard Loki is Max duration with efficiency. You can say you place Narrow Minded, but this can be easily counted with Overextended. They is no downside to Loki.

And for your build. They should downside. For example; Nova, you can build Speed Nova, or Slow Nova. They both have negatives, with positives. For another example; Chroma. He scarfices S#&$ energy for durability.

Also there's another thread about this: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/589227-curiosity-killed-theloki/

[Misgenesis]

Loki is definitely not one of the most balanced frames in the game but he doesnt kill everything in sight so he must be balanced right?

 

Hes way too easy to mod for pure plus and no negatives. My all around build has max range/eff with 148% duration.

 

And man...reading this thread, the 'Loki masterrace' sure is rabid.

Edited January 3, 2016 by Misgenesis

[Dairaion]

Don't hate me, but all the old frames had or are going to get a rework/rebalanced.

Loki can go invisible for stupid long duration. Able to teleport enemies and allies, also disarming group enemies and making them fight each other with argument.

I know this is bit of touchy subject, but i think should be talked about :/

So does he need to be rebalanced, or just kept OP.

EDIT: Plz Don't Be Salty. If you got suggestions and rework feel free to say it :)

Edit 2: Be respectful and don't be a jackass

Im going to explain to you why loki doesn't need a rebalance.

 

his invisibility is not stupid long, trust me even when moving as fast as possible you just end up recasting it at least 6 times in a stealth mission. he's ungodly squishy requiring constant use of disarm and decoy and even then i hope you have a good two hander for crowds. loki's other abilities seem op but in use they're quite useless radial disarm might as well be a loud firecracker in most stressful situations and decoy doesn't do nearly enough and switch teleport is utterly useless for all forms of gameplay.

 

now if you want to weaken loki's invisibility so he becomes the trickster frame instead of the bargain bin ash, okay i guess? but you'll have to buff his other abilities. Decoy now fires lasers with their damage based on power and level. teleport needs to be replaced, with anything really. and radial disarm actually renders the enemy completely disamed.

Edited January 3, 2016 by Dairaion

[Ibro156]

Im going to explain to you why loki doesn't need a rebalance.

his invisibility is not stupid long, trust me even when moving as fast as possible you just end up recasting it at least 6 times in a stealth mission. he's ungodly squishy requiring constant use of disarm and decoy and even then i hope you have a good two hander for crowds. loki's other abilities seem op but in use they're quite useless radial disarm might as well be a loud firecracker in most stressful situations and decoy doesn't do nearly enough and switch teleport is utterly useless for all forms of gameplay.

now if you want to weaken loki's invisibility so he becomes the trickster frame instead of the bargain bin ash, okay i guess? but you'll have to buff his other abilities. Decoy now fires lasers with their damage based on power and level. teleport needs to be replaced, with anything really. and radial disarm actually renders the enemy completely disamed.

I got suggesstions. First I think Decoy should inverability for three seconds, allowing it absorb dmg to overall health and armour. Secondly, it should be able to get enemies attention, like dijn, but uses power strength. If you want to come faster go with negative strength, if slower positive power strength.

And for switch teleport. Got no clue for that. If you got an idea for, let's hear it :)

[(PSN)thehoocodfather]

First the demands for a nerf focused on Valkyr.

 

Then Ember.

 

We all knew Loki was going to be next.

 

Its Click Bait Time.

 

Again.

 

Its really getting boring now. 

[Ibro156]

First the demands for a nerf focused on Valkyr.

Then Ember.

We all knew Loki was going to be next.

Its Click Bait Time.

Again.

Its really getting boring now.

Ember got rework she is balance. Val can be powerful sometimes, but has massive damage reduction over time. And two we're talking about Loki. His invise is cheat code more then anything.

Just watch this vid:https://youtu.be/B6eiOaR5kyw

From watching that vid, can you honestly tell me he's balanced? :/

Edited January 3, 2016 by Ibro156

[Cubewano]

Ember got rework she is balance. Val can be powerful sometimes, but has massive damage reduction over time. And two we're talking about Loki. His invise is cheat code more then anything.

Just watch this vid:https://youtu.be/B6eiOaR5kyw

if loki's invis is a cheat code then what exactly is valkyr's hysteria? that ability flat rejects all damage types, which is way more than invis does., or for that matter rhino's iron skin or nezha's wardin halo? Each provide a kind of immunity within set parameters.

 

ans you could pull that off just as simply with a number of others frames so it doesn't really lend itself much in the way of proof.

[Nihillian]

If anything he needs a buff to Decoy, that's all really, all his other skills are good enough. and ofcourse there is his invisibility... I have seen MANY Loki's get downed in T4's and/or sorties. AoE is their nemesis, and there is plenty (looking at corpus based sorties) I believe him to be balanced in that regard.

[LeaserResael]

It's funny how people ignore that lots of enemies now have AoE attacks that can simply destroy loki in one hit. His whole kit is balanced around his low hp/shields (which are the weakest of all frames).

Loki can't survive without invi, which means if you go with an invi build, you sacrifice disarm. And if you build for disarm, you're a lot more exposed to attacks (which again, can take down loki in one hit).

If Loki was OP, he would be able to take down every enemy on the game BY HIMSELF, which he cannot, in fact he relies exclusively on weapons to deal damage.

Like many other people already said, all it takes it's one look at vauban, nova, trinity, frost, rhino, valkyr, etc. All those frames are more OP than Loki, which is not bad, they have their own weaknesses, so does Loki (his low stats, his over-reliance on weapons to deal damage, his 3 is absolutely worthless and his 1 it's useless on end game).

So, Loki OP? Yeah no. If your favorite frame is in a bad state, ask for buffs, don't go around trying to ruin a really well balanaced frame.

People forget that in order to properly use Loki you need a LOT of time, mods, multi-formaed weapons and more, otherwise he's mostly useless. So it's not like you take Loki and you're wreaking enemies left and right. You need a LOT to make him usefull, that's why he's so good. Because it requires you to work a lot for him to be great and even then, you need to be aware at at all times of every enemy if you want to stay alive.
Invisibilty doesn't mean invulnerability, Ivara should be walking cheat then if that were true, as she doesn't need to recast her 3 and can stay invisible forever.

Sorry but no, Loki doesn't need to be "rebalanced".

Edited January 3, 2016 by LeaserResael

[ashrah]

loki is one of most balanced frames in game.....

[Ibro156]

Eh, I can't be bothered typing again. Plz just read my previous comments on Loki's ability and A.I. I know I started this thread, but try to read the comments -_-

[Buzkyl]

If Loki was OP, he would be able to take down every enemy on the game BY HIMSELF, which he cannot, in fact he relies exclusively on weapons to deal damage.

Like many other people already said, all it takes it's one look at vauban, nova, trinity, frost, rhino, valkyr, etc. All those frames are more OP than Loki, which is not bad, they have their own weaknesses, so does Loki (his low stats, his over-reliance on weapons to deal damage, his 3 is absolutely worthless and his 1 it's useless on end game).

 

 

See this is what clouds people minds the most. That to be OP, you have to deal high amounts of damage, which is false. Loki outright removes difficulty from factions, iniviblity is essentially a cheat code when you see how AI acts to it. AoE weapons are removed via disarm, focing them to melee combat.

 

When you say Rhino is more overpowered than Loki, i can tell this person has played little of Loki.

[Eminem2420]

I think some people confuse OP with usefulness.

[Thebel]

Not sure how people consider Loki squishy when you combine Prime Flow, Quick Thinking and Rage if needed. He is reasonably tanky with really nice health pool with just 2 of those mods.

[Dr_Dac]

I feel like people misunderstand Loki, his one big advantage over other frames is his invisibility. But do mobs die from being invisble?

You really like to throw the word OP around, i wonder if you even KNOW what it means. Every frame in the game has a Toolset that

makes him good in certain situations. Loki can be invisible for around 30 seconds with a focused stealth build, but which missions

actually NEED you to be permacloaked, certainly not missions where you need to KILL stuff. A stealth Loki is used for Sabotage,Spy or

grabbing key objectives fairly safe. If you take a build based on disarming your invisibility will at most reach somewhere around 15 seconds.

Loki cannot cast this while moving, in the brief moment he is visible a single attack can and will kill him.

 

 

In total you most likely saw a stealth Loki and a disarm Loki, then failed to realize that both builds cannot go together and got butthurt

so you went to the forum to demand nerfs. I utterly fail to see your reason to demand nerfs to a frame that pretty much has only one

ability "getting from A to B with less fighting".

 

Case closed another whiner

[m1a3s3k7]

I think some people confuse OP with usefulness.

^This. Can we all remember this is primarily a PvE game?

His invise is cheat code more then anything

So Ivara doesn't have a "cheat code?" You may be "slower" but you are still just as invisible.

The problem I see with Loki is the deminishing stealth game in Warframe. The changes that came about post Focus farming decimated a non-stealth frames ability to imitate one. So who do we use to complete those spy missions?

I still want to know how Loki ruins your day? Yeah, the trolling with switch teleport or the AFK guy I get those. I'm asking about the team player. How does that guy ruin your day?

[vrdwrst]

Loki is weak health wise but can avoid damage with powers. He's not broken, just very good. Radial disarm is also good, but it isn't the most special thing out there looking at Nyx and Vawbuh, and as others have said, a disarm build shuts down his other powers.

If this is one of those threads where people will start throwing out the names of other frames for random reasons, here we go-

Valkyr can stay invincible virtually forever. Invincible. Not just invisible. Her damage is limited because of melee and lack of cc, but godmode is not the definition of balance.

Excalbur is very well rounded with diverse powers. A radial blind build is devastating cc, but probably prevents effective exalted blade usage. I don't know. Exalted Blade tho is a projectile melee attack. You can turret galatine blows across an entire crowd with punchthrough, but he is still vulnerable to attack. Kind of like a tweak on-

Ember's world on fire doesn't take any sort of skill to hit, but Ember can't take much damage, she has to be close-ish to use it and her other skills are kind of meh. I've heard it falls off for whatever reason.

Mesa drains energy very fast while peacmaking. That's all I know, besides the fact that a lot of people were screaming nerf after the rework.

Frost provides the best static defense. Static is the key word here.

Trinity is the only healer, and lazy people often refuse to go into a mission if they don't have the assurance of being spamed by blessing. If we had another different healer, maybe she wouldn't seem too amazing.

In the end, just about everything in this game can be abused in ways it wasn't intended.

[Ibro156]

^This. Can we all remember this is primarily a PvE game?

So Ivara doesn't have a "cheat code?" You may be "slower" but you are still just as invisible.

The problem I see with Loki is the deminishing stealth game in Warframe. The changes that came about post Focus farming decimated a non-stealth frames ability to imitate one. So who do we use to complete those spy missions?

I still want to know how Loki ruins your day? Yeah, the trolling with switch teleport or the AFK guy I get those. I'm asking about the team player. How does that guy ruin your day?

Can we focus on Loki and stop bringing other frames into this. I started thread to talk about Loki only that ain't being rebalanced. I will say this again; their is no scaling on Loki's disarm, and enemies have no reaction to stealth frame.

And please, don't try to provoke other players. Can't we be nature without being so Salty? -_-

Edited January 3, 2016 by Ibro156

[vrdwrst]

Can we focus on Loki and stop bringing other frames into this. I started thread to talk about Loki only that ain't being rebalanced. I will say this again; their is no scaling on Loki's disarm, and enemies have no reaction to stealth frame.

And please, don't try to provoke other players. Can't we be nature without being so Salty? -_-

Enemies will try to shoot you if your gun makes noise, if they hit you you're gone. There's also many other cc powers that have no falloff, but it is a little odd to put such a good one on a trickster. Raidal Disarm is more befiting of Vauban the defensive engineer.

Loki is odd but he isn't broken, per say.