srlhama Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Pay to not wait is COMPLETE diferent from pay to win. And the part where he said he progressed in a weeks what ppl will take months, goes downhill when I saw his Loki build... Of course the new players part is right, I see it every day on Region and aliaclnce chat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorpheousXO Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Uhm why there are no comments? below the video? Because he doesn't like youtube comments, so he disabled them for all his videos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)CommanderC2121 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 I saw the full video, one Problem Just because he has good mods and frames doesnt mean that he knows how to most effectively use them, al la his loki build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armedpoop Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) I saw the full video, one Problem Just because he has good mods and frames doesnt mean that he knows how to most effectively use them, al la his loki build How is that even relevant at all? Did he ever say anything along the lines of knowing what to do? Edited January 23, 2016 by armedpoop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srlhama Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 How is that even relevant at all? Did he ever say anything along the lines of knowing what to do? A player that crawl his way on the game until the point he is without the high plat usage probably will know how to play the game better and understand at least what an Invasion is. And the Tonkor/Loki combo... Not bashing Loki, but I have my personal problems with forever invisibility Lokis on pugs. While he has one of the best skills for the whole team most Lokis I saw just forget there is a 4 button there. Agreed the mod system have next to none explanation, even the resource farming don't have a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uzpian Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) Uhm why there are no comments? below the video? Maybe he is sick of Darude-Sandstorm, spams, insults or whatever. Edited January 23, 2016 by Uzpian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComCray Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 But... pay to win is an incredibly real thing in PvE. So that's silly. You... you're joking right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SicSlaver Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) You... you're joking right? He's not. It does happen. A PVE game can be balanced around exclusive item shop items that are needed in order to win artificially harder content. Edited January 23, 2016 by SicSlaver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invincible.Jupiter Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 hope DE takes his criticism cause he hit all the points, and frustration we all share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obviousclone Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) That's a distasteful joke I believe the actual reason was because of that one time youtube updated "changed" the comment section and people started putting unfiltered-potentially dangerous links in the comments (such as shock sites or malignant software links) and whatnot in the comments and he didn't want his viewers to suffer. Ontopic: I will admit that I am one of those players who actually found the game overwhelming when I first started playing. Syndicates to me were the most confusing thing as a new player. When I first looked at them, I thought that they were "endgame content" and as a result I ignored them until I had unlocked all of the planets. Which is completely wrong, Syndicates are "anytime content" that can be accessed and used both early on and lategame. In fact it's better to hook up with a syndicate early on since you passively gain reputation for gaining affinity which you will definitely be doing early on (which gives you a good headstart towards getting cool syndicate rewards, which personally I am currently lacking in since I ignored syndicates). When I finally decided to to pick a Syndicate, all I had to go off of was their voice/story and their offerings tab which when I checked was extremely overwhelming and confusing. There's like this massive list of mods that affect specific warframe abilities (at the time I didn't even know which warframe I was going to be keep playing, and I didn't even know most of the abilties), some guns (again, many of the guns I hadn't even tried out, I wasn't aware that Vaykor Hek was an upgrade to the Hek because I didn't even know that Hek was a shotgun that existed in this game), a bunch of tattoos and some keys and specters- I had no idea which syndicate I should pick based on these rewards and then I look at the other syndicates and they have a different set of items which just further overwhelms me with questions. And all of that made me feel like if I didn't wiki/research the syndicates, I was definitely going to pick one that I regret (which, I don't really, the syndicates all are, as it turns out, pretty good in their own ways). But the point is, is that there's this massive 6 option decision that will decide your endgame path based on their offerings that you are given zero instructions on. And you aren't even introduced to them so when you decide to start working with syndicates is very random. Boss Fights as a new player were also very frustrating. A large number of them have invincibility (Jackal, sargus ruk, lech kril, Vay Hek). and there's like one boss fight in the game where they legitimately tell you "hey they're invulnerable except for this weakpoint." and that boss fight is jordas golem.(Ordis tells you to shoot his back) Which is bad because you fight him at Eris. Y'know, that at the end of the game when you've unlocked the entire solar system. When you've probably fought every other invincible-weakpoint boss and you no longer need to be informed about that kind of boss fighting mechanic. Edited January 23, 2016 by Obviousclone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kazeyama Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 He was right about how systems get built upon one another and there isn't a narrative thread to tie them together. I honestly think it was a lot easier for me to start playing before they added all the new systems and features. Now you don't really know what is going on once you clear the first quest or so. I mean they have quests to introduce some things but they don't really have any connecting thread that leads from one to the next. If there was some narrative as you progressed planet to planet that helped explain the different game systems new players would have a much easier time. Like the intro on earth is great but you need follow ups for crafting, leveling, modding, void, dark sector, pvp, etc. etc. Even after playing second dream and getting all of that great lore and backstory the game itself didn't actually tell you how focus works I had to wiki it to learn how I install a lens and upgrade stuff and how to actually use it in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClinkzEastwood Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 He has similar opinion as mine when I started the game. Good thing is he hasn't get to the ugly part of the game yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyEnneract Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Oh god, he said that horribly stupid logical fallacy that Warframe can't be in beta because it has a cash shop. Now every ignorant hater will feel justified in saying that, because he did. You should explain how this is a fallacy. You can literally say any game is in beta as the developer, forever. Even while updating endlessly (fits Warframe exactly). Will Warframe be out of beta once it shuts down? The line has to be drawn somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJunior Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) Haven't watched the whole video yet, but, Really agree with his points about the new player experience. Every time I try to get a friend into Warframe I have to spend about a day or two just explaining how all the systems work over a skype call, like modding, how to unlock planets, the heck are syndicates, and the hundreds of "What is this?" "How do I do that?" There can be some of that, sure. But when almost every single thing needs to be explained by an outside source to a newcomer, that ain't good. Usually my friends get discouraged from how confusing it all is at first and get turned off by the game. There needs to be much more emphasis on the new player experience. Edited January 23, 2016 by SJunior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Clockwerk20X0 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) He was right about how systems get built upon one another and there isn't a narrative thread to tie them together. I honestly think it was a lot easier for me to start playing before they added all the new systems and features. Now you don't really know what is going on once you clear the first quest or so. I mean they have quests to introduce some things but they don't really have any connecting thread that leads from one to the next. If there was some narrative as you progressed planet to planet that helped explain the different game systems new players would have a much easier time. Like the intro on earth is great but you need follow ups for crafting, leveling, modding, void, dark sector, pvp, etc. etc. Even after playing second dream and getting all of that great lore and backstory the game itself didn't actually tell you how focus works I had to wiki it to learn how I install a lens and upgrade stuff and how to actually use it in the first place. Exactly! If the game itself took the time to talk you through the basic steps of those other mechanics, then it would be even better than it already is. If newcomers can quickly get an understanding of mods and the other main mechanics outside of combat early on, then I'm sure it would at least improve new player retention. I hope DE sees this as well. Warframe's already good, but I want it to become even better when it comes to showing greenhorns the ropes. The wiki should be a SUPPLEMENT to the game experience, not a mandatory thing to understand what to do. Some simple tutorial quests to teach that stuff would be a good solution. Edited January 23, 2016 by (PS4)Clockwerk20X0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)awesomelaw128 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 TB was pretty spot on in this review the devs really need to finish the new player expirience they have been working for because any other game wouldve died a long time ago with our awfull tutorials I also like the part where he compares Clem to an STD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Clockwerk20X0 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 TB was pretty spot on in this review the devs really need to finish the new player expirience they have been working for because any other game wouldve died a long time ago with our awfull tutorials I also like the part where he compares Clem to an STD Poor Clem.... But yeah, long story short: You need to consider making better tutorials DE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComCray Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 He's not. It does happen. A PVE game can be balanced around exclusive item shop items that are needed in order to win artificially harder content. Ridiculous. Harder content needs bigger guns, true, but you can get about any gun in this game (this game, warframe, is what we talk about here) without having to pay a cent. You don't HAVE to buy this or that gun to be able to play higher tier content. There are currently NO weapons in game you can only get with cold, hard cash. So, no. WF is NOT PayToWin. Anyone saying this is out of their mind. You might not like the way we acquire our weapons and/or frames, sure, but then might I suggest looking for another game you DO like playing before throwing such nonsense around? And before you start complaining about how certain weapons are "hidden" behind a mastery wall, consider that these weapons are indeed meant for higher tier content. Not for mercury, venus or earth. Coming into this game with the attitude you are entitled on "all teh things rite noowww" on day one is wrong on so many levels I wouldn't know where to begin..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armedpoop Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 A player that crawl his way on the game until the point he is without the high plat usage probably will know how to play the game better and understand at least what an Invasion is. And the Tonkor/Loki combo... Not bashing Loki, but I have my personal problems with forever invisibility Lokis on pugs. While he has one of the best skills for the whole team most Lokis I saw just forget there is a 4 button there. Agreed the mod system have next to none explanation, even the resource farming don't have a good one. Ok but how is any of this relevant? Just because somebody plays a certain way doesnt mean they ARE a certain way. Dont judge books by their covers and all that jazz. That's a distasteful joke Its a great joke actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SicSlaver Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Ridiculous. Harder content needs bigger guns, true, but you can get about any gun in this game (this game, warframe, is what we talk about here) without having to pay a cent. You don't HAVE to buy this or that gun to be able to play higher tier content. There are currently NO weapons in game you can only get with cold, hard cash. So, no. WF is NOT PayToWin. Anyone saying this is out of their mind. You might not like the way we acquire our weapons and/or frames, sure, but then might I suggest looking for another game you DO like playing before throwing such nonsense around? And before you start complaining about how certain weapons are "hidden" behind a mastery wall, consider that these weapons are indeed meant for higher tier content. Not for mercury, venus or earth. Coming into this game with the attitude you are entitled on "all teh things rite noowww" on day one is wrong on so many levels I wouldn't know where to begin..... I wasn't sure the person you responded to was talking about this game or about PVE games in general. Neither of you were clear. Both of you just said "PVE game". And there are people out there that actually believe you can't Pay-to-Win in a co-op PVE game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 I don't think he knows that orokin reactor/catalysts exist, did he mention it in the vid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syln Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 I wish he did a little more with the "you're not here for the story" comment, seeing as what story we do have is actually very good... As good as the second dream quest is, it's a little to early to say that people come to warframe for its storyline and sceenwriting but i surely do hope it will in the future ^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DecapitatingJim Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) I don't think he knows that orokin reactor/catalysts exist, did he mention it in the vid? If he bought all his stuff it would have been auto installed, so he probably didn't notice them. Cept his primes I suppose. He didn't mention them at all so probably doesn't know about them. Edited January 23, 2016 by DecapitatingJim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syln Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 If he bought all his stuff it would have been auto installed, so he probably didn't notice them. Cept his primes I suppose. He didn't mention them at all so probably doesn't know about them. Remind me of his stream when he was gifted with many reactor and said something like "but i already got one" x) One more thing to add to a potential tutorial ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krisp Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Oh god, he said that horribly stupid logical fallacy that Warframe can't be in beta because it has a cash shop. Now every ignorant hater will feel justified in saying that, because he did. It's not a logical fallacy if it has nothing to do with logic. The beta excuse is generally used against valid criticism to justify bad content and lack of QA/stability testing. Something a lot of sane people believe the devs shouldn't get away with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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