Let’S Put An End To The Carrier Prime Master Race

[Hellmaker2004]

The problem is that both Kubrow and Sentinels(Except Carrier) will not only scale worse than we do, but they can't do what we do best, kill stuff and usually in a very fast pace.

People keep saying that other Sentinel can do stuff the Carrier can't and that balances the Carrier out, or the Kubrow will offer more damage and there own utility. And all of this is true, but only to some extent.

And the problem is that if you focus on looting, every second you "waste" picking up or looking for loot, is effectively you using your ability's or weapons less time, so even if the Carrier clearly has competitive choices both in utility and damage, nothing can compete with your own frame or weapons and that is effectively what the Carrier offers. Less time wasted on looting or finding loot.

I wish i could use my Kubrows (Even tough i think they are flawed in the sense there survivability mods scale from your frame) but there is currently nothing that can offer me the same time  to use my guns or ability's as the Carrier can.

Do i want Vacuum to disappear? Well yes and no. But i want it to either become universally used by Kubrows / Sentinels. And/Or reworked into the standard loot radius and give the Carrier a new ability.

Edited February 7, 2016 by Hellmaker2004

[Pizzarugi]

Really, ive yet to see a good argument for it. And no, convenience is not one of them.

Says you, convenience is a valid argument. If I wasn't busy looking for things to add to my codex using Helios, I'd be back using my Carrier grabbing stuff for me.

 

----

 

I made this suggestion on another thread:

1. Make vacuum usable on all sentinels.

2. Give carrier the ability to "store" excess items you pick up, up to 100 of anything you collect. If you have full energy, using an ability will cause the carrier to drop an energy orb on you. If you reload 55 bullets into your soma prime, your carrier will drop 55 rifle bullets on you.

It is called carrier, so this new ability fits its name.

Edited February 7, 2016 by Pizzarugi

[-N7-Leonhart]

My reason to use Carrier exclusively is simple: it gives me the most damage potential. Yes, damage.

 

How can I fire 20k bullets per hour if there is no carrier to suck any traces of ammo and convert it into large amounts of what I need via Primed Mutation. Same story with energy reserves.

 

Also, you forget that those pickups despawn rather fast. I would rather have then now and maybe waste a bit, than not having them at all later.

[Sygnano]

In the first picture, you did not WASTE 150 Energy while running through the tile with a toggled ability, that's why.

 

And for your information, the pickup radius without vacuum is about 5-6 meters, which is quite large. If those Mods image radius were to scale, you would have picked them up regardless.

 

If I'm running Exalted Blade and I'm shooting stuff, I don't want to waste 24 Energy every tick simply because an Orb is within Vacuum range and gets pulled in instantly, I want to wait until I use 30 Energy and THEN run over it and get the full amount.

 

Vacuum is a crutch for starter players, it's training wheels. Once you get used to the game, you can play more efficiently without it.

 

I'm wasting my time doing a country dance without a carrier and that is enough if an annoyance to justify vacuum. I don't care about wasting some precious ticks from an energy orb. Oh noes, I'm taking an energy orb when I only lack 10 energy ! It's definitely going to ruin my run ! Because as everybody @(*()$ knows, energy on this game is so precious !

 

Because yes, unless you're a newcomer who doesn't have mods or you're garbage at this game, anything below T4 40 mins/wave does only need very basic attention. The game is seriously built on this structure, so before you call me an elitist douchebag - which I certainly am -, you should do some reality checks. 180k aoe tonkor ? 50m diameter bubble and permastun ? 60-120k ult spam excal ? 90% global dmg mitigation ? Pretty much every frame can instagib all trash mobs in a 50m area for 25 energy, you should get your precious orb back, don't worry. Oh and if you're going to go for higher rounds, you should have a proper setup to not need this one @(*()$ energy orb at it's full potential. Christ, if you seriously count energy on your finger in this game, I envy you man, you got so much time to waste.I mean I pretty much pop one Avalanche for 25 energy and everybody in a 70 meters diameter dies or is frozen, and that's the end of it.

 

But I diverge.

 

FYI, standard pick-up radius is 3m. Carrier puts it at 12m. I'm talking about warframe meters, not real meters tho, so 3 meters is seriously S#&$. We're talking 1 step from a walking warframe. "But that's only one more step, you lazy bum", yeah, that's one step, for some loot that's 10 meters away it's 3 steps. But if we're talking about a room, that's easily 20-30 more steps. Between 30 steps playing Dance Dance Revolution and one slide at the center of the room, I've made my choice.

 

But I'm sure you have a way better companion, right ? Like the random ! Wyrm stun, or the worst invisibity of the game from Shade, or the 3% damage contribution from a kubrow. In fact, the other companions are so useful everybody uses them !

Edited February 7, 2016 by Sygnano

[Inmemoratus]

Says you, convenience is a valid argument. If I wasn't busy looking for things to add to my codex using Helios, I'd be back using my Carrier grabbing stuff for me.

 

----

 

I made this suggestion on another thread:

1. Make vacuum usable on all sentinels.

2. Give carrier the ability to "store" excess items you pick up, up to 100 of anything you collect. If you have full energy, using an ability will cause the carrier to drop an energy orb on you. If you reload 55 bullets into your soma prime, your carrier will drop 55 rifle bullets on you.

It is called carrier, so this new ability fits its name.

 

Convenience is a great argument for why you use it, or if you want to convince somebody else to use it.

 

But I don't think it's a great argument for actually changing anything. There are a lot of people who don't agree with the opinion that carrier is a necessity. Maybe not the majority of players, but a good chunk of them. Shouldn't that be enough to say "no, nothing should be changed" ?

 

I mean sure, a lot of people can't FATHOM the concept of not using Carrier. Well too bad for them. That is their own self-imposed mental limitation.

[Soketsu]

 

                My suggested fix for this problem is as simple as it gets, and gives us an entirely new level of customization to the sentinel system. Make every sentinel ability mod universal and usable by any sentinel.

 

Good I will use only the long range senti in that case, it will scan, pick up, stunt and shot at long range good

 

....the only problem i see it will be the crying nerfing platoon... oh and feeling that many senti will be underused too....

[Sygnano]

I mean sure, a lot of people can't FATHOM the concept of not using Carrier. Well too bad for them. That is their own self-imposed mental limitation.

 

> Implying anythig else is worth using

[Rankii]

Well we had a really cool grineer-flavored sniper sentinel for a while and we all saw how that went. It was nerfed so deep into the ground that it was a starting option for the Chinese Launch of Warfarm re-balanced for "quality of life". Really making everything interchangable doesn't fix anything becase then everything is everything else. May as well be able to swap out warframe abilities while we're at it.

 

No, what needs to be done is look at why Carrier is the (rightful) Master Race and try to make/remake sentinels that aren't carrier into something people would want to use. AND NOT HAVE A GORILLION THREADS ASKING TO NERF THEM INTO THE SUN A WEEK LATER

[Archwizard]

Meh. True is carrier will be used always, because we're lazy af. 

 

Not to mention how lazy we all know that we are and it's just simply easier to not have to go pick it up myself, much less more time-efficient.

 

People being lazy is not a problem with the game's design.

 

Let people be lazy all they want.

 

It's not just laziness though. Sometimes it's a matter of some loot simply not being physically possible to retrieve due to where it's positioned in (or even just slightly out of) the map. If I see a gold mod drop, I don't want it to be trapped between some boxes where I can't fit in, or fall off a cliff at the end of Wave 5. I can't even count the number of times a mod has clipped through the ceiling when an enemy got killed by a ragdoll attack - places I wouldn't have seen it without Animal Instinct or someone's Loot Detector.

 

And like some people have mentioned, when we have short timers at the end of waves, sometimes the only way to pick up everything scattered around is to fling yourself and pray Carrier collects and delivers while you're airborne.

 

It's a flaw that Carrier fixes - you can't just bump everything else up to that level.

Edited February 7, 2016 by Archwizard

[YasaiTsume]

Ok cmon :c 

I dun wanna care about running after loot when I'm running from my enemies :c

Let me keep Vacuum one way or another pls :) 

[Inmemoratus]

> Implying anythig else is worth using

 

I think they are, especially the ones that make you invisible.

 

 

It's not just laziness though. Sometimes it's a matter of some loot simply not being physically possible to retrieve due to where it's positioned in (or even just slightly out of) the map. If I see a gold mod drop, I don't want it to be trapped between some boxes where I can't fit in, or fall off a cliff at the end of Wave 5. I can't even count the number of times a mod has clipped through the ceiling when an enemy got killed by a ragdoll attack - places I wouldn't have seen it without Animal Instinct or someone's Loot Detector.

 

And like some people have mentioned, when we have short timers at the end of waves, sometimes the only way to pick up everything scattered around is to fling yourself and pray Carrier collects and delivers while you're airborne.

 

It's a flaw that Carrier fixes - you can't just bump everything else up to that level.

 

 

That can conceivably happen but personally in 750 hours logged on Warframe I have not ever missed out on anything remotely important in that manner because the vast majority of loot is junk anyway.

 

I say you're worrying too much about something very unlikely. I'm not saying you shouldn't use carrier, but to call it a necessity is untrue.

 

In my opinion, loot radar is much closer to being necessary because it's far more likely for loot to be hidden, rather than unreachable.

Edited February 7, 2016 by Inmemoratus

[YasaiTsume]

I think they are, especially the ones that make you invisible.

Shade's stealthing has known to be random as hell, which is a reason why I ditched it in favour for Diraga or Carrier. 

[Darthmufin]

Make the other sentinels have weapons that equal or are better than the carrier and make it so sentinels can only use the weapon they are made for, and that will fix the problem. 

I think they are, especially the ones that make you invisible.

except if you uncloak for any reason it takes 10 seconds to re-cloak so its useless on anything but solo stealth play and even then, it becomes crap when you accidentaly de cloak. 

[AandOE]

I like being able to pick up loot from behind non-revealing walls in the Void, or places that I can't go to! If anything, we could give the Vacuum precept to melee (a magnetic mod, per se), to allow us to still snag things all around us, and then give Carrier the ability to carry extra ammo, health, energy, etc from all of the passed up and not picked up drops. :3

[GhostFeng]

 

It's a flaw that Carrier fixes - you can't just bump everything else up to that level.

 

This is why all sentinels should have innate vacuum. Let's say DE did decide to bump everything up to that level. Alright now your Deathcube has become the old Saryn and can nuke entire rooms before you can even reload. Well, it's killing everything for you and now you don't have vacuum so you might as well make yourself useful and start finding all the loot that you have to run over and pick up yourself. Congrats, your Deathcube has become the warframe and you have become the Carrier. GG.

 

 

I think they are, especially the ones that make you invisible.

 

You are implying that Shade actually turns you invisible when you need invisibility.

[ashrah]

vacuum should be added on all sentinels like passive....that ppl can change sometimes  some sentinel......i stop use carrier now   a bit and  i use huras

[NKDG]

We’ve all seen it. You pause the game mid mission, check your squad, and see “Carrier Prime” across the board. Sure, you see a cool kubrow every now and then (come on, it’s a kubrow. Everyone is willing to forgo Carrier’s massive usefulness every now and then to sport their expensive kubrow armor or fresh-out-of-the-incubator gold, bulky lotus) but we all know that you are quickly going to miss having half the loot in the room immediately come to you when dropped. The change made to Chesas in the last hotfix is a welcome improvement, but the Chesa is still no Carrier.

Now we could all get in a sentinel vs. kubrow debate (plenty of them exist across every Warframe forum) or start talking about buffs to all of the other sentinels to get them at least somewhat close to Carrier in terms of usefulness, but what I don’t understand is that the devs have made it very clear that their highest priority is the player experience and part of that is giving us all of the customization options we could ever want to enhance our own personal experience with the game. When a frame becomes overpowered and overused, it gets the nerf hammer. Period. This game is all about every piece of equipment getting its time in the spotlight and its chance to be someone’s favorite and most-used. So why are we all stuck using Carrier Prime?

My suggested fix for this problem is as simple as it gets, and gives us an entirely new level of customization to the sentinel system. Make every sentinel ability mod universal and usable by any sentinel. I honestly don’t see why this isn’t already part of the game. Now instead of having to choose between the most useful sentinel in the game and my favorite sentinel, (not going to name names or point out the uselessness of my favorite dragon-y sentinel) I could turn my favorite sentinel into the most useful one by throwing a Vacuum mod on the sentinel of my choice. We are not forced to simply use the Sweeper Prime on the Carrier Prime because that is what it came with. We are fortunate enough to have the choice of our favorite sentinel weapon and use it on any sentinel. So why am I still forced to use Carrier if I want the Vacuum ability on my sentinel?

A friend of mine brought up a good problem with this idea. If Vacuum can just be used on any sentinel, then “Carrier” is no longer “Carrier” because any sentinel can become “Carrier”. This is very easily fixed. Just double the cost of all of the sentinel ability mods, and when they are used on their original sentinel, the cost is halved only for that sentinel. So for example, let’s say I want to put a Vacuum mod on my favorite sentinel. It would cost 14 mod space fully-ranked to place the mod on that sentinel (7 mod space cost in a Precept polarity slot). However, if I still want to use the original Carrier with its original Vacuum mod, it would cost the original 7 mod space fully-ranked (4 in the polarity slot). This also makes sense because if we found a way to take one sentinel’s ability and retrofit it into another, it would take more resources to make that ability work in a different sentinel, but at least we would have the freedom to make it work.

In summary, in a game designed at its core to be all about the player experience and player choice, why are we all still stuck using Carrier Prime for the most useful sentinel experience? We should have the freedom to choose our favorite sentinel and make it our most useful sentinel experience. We are an advanced race of space ninjas yet we haven’t learned how to install the ability of one sentinel on another? Seems like we aren’t as advanced as we thought, Tenno. Let’s put an end to the Carrier Prime master race and have the freedom to choose our favorite sentinel and give it our favorite abilities.

Or implement just a universal vacuum and rework carrier/chesa...

[Swailwort]

I must be one of the Few players out there that would choose Diríga over Carrier because of the utility, status proccing at long ranges and because it looks adorable.

[(PSN)xKAIOWAx]

Honestly, this "balance mania" is a problem ,who cares if everybody use carrier? This dont take my fun , sometimes i fell me in a dictatorship here , everybody want control what gears others players need use , what the skill is tolerate , what weapon, what frame, im dont use carrier , my main sentinel is helios , if everyone want use sentinel ,frame, weapon ... This cant be a reason to make equipment worst only for personal satisfaction of some players, this s a reason to make others equipments better and improve game experience .  

[NKDG]

I must be one of the Few players out there that would choose Diríga over Carrier because of the utility, status proccing at long ranges and because it looks adorable.

I personally run sahasa over all lol

[TangyBlueBerry]

No. It's not a necessity. I regularly play without a carrier and so do other people I know.

 

If you said the default pickup radius should be slightly buffed to like 1 meter, sure maybe I could agree. Because why not.

 

But no, Carrier is not a necessity.

 

One of the biggest things people are not acknowledging here is that the loot on the ground is largely irrelevant in this game. Most of the important things are in the mission completion drop tables. While there are mods and rare materials that you definitely need to pick up, the game highlights those so you don't miss them.

 

And in light of that, I would argue that LOOT RADAR is a much more beneficial utility than pickup radius. If I had to choose between them I would go with loot radar hands down.

 

Yes it is necessary. Why? Because I am bullet jumping and aim gliding all the damn time. I don't have the patience to stand on the floor and casually walk over crap. I also don't even want to look at the floor for ammo. Carrier is a necessary for me to have fun and enjoy simply providing mass genocide.

 

Get off your high hipster horse simply because you don't use Carrier.

 

Also there is no such thing as irrelevant loot. Everything ever dropped on the floor is needed, I want to stock pile every resource. And your looking at it from a perspective where you have what you need. But newer players who still don't have such large stock piles will still need even the common resources and crap mods.

[Inmemoratus]

Yes it is necessary. Why? Because I am bullet jumping and aim gliding all the damn time. I don't have the patience to stand on the floor and casually walk over crap. I also don't even want to look at the floor for ammo. Carrier is a necessary for me to have fun and enjoy simply providing mass genocide.

 

Get off your high hipster horse simply because you don't use Carrier.

 

Also there is no such thing as irrelevant loot. Everything ever dropped on the floor is needed, I want to stock pile every resource. And your looking at it from a perspective where you have what you need. But newer players who still don't have such large stock piles will still need even the common resources and crap mods.

 

It's not a necessity just because you don't have the patience (your words). It's just very good for your playstyle. That doesn't mean anything needs to be changed.

 

I do use a carrier sometimes. I just don't find it necessary. For the longest time the reason I used it was because I didn't feel like I was ready to bother with companions yet so I felt like it was just the easy choice that's useful without mods or a strong weapon.

 

So yes, I would advise new players to use it. It's definitely the best one until you're ready to actually invest in your companion.

Edited February 7, 2016 by Inmemoratus

[(PSN)Smooth81Criminal]

I don't know about anyone else, but I literally have no problem switching btwn sentinels and kubrows whenever I want. Regardless of items that are picked up for me out of convenience. I'm not sure what this big deal is, you see carrier across the board, let them use it. I can't really get on board with sentinel precepts being universal, they are precept because it's the sentinels built in ability. If anything else that may even deter use from other sentinels like shade. Why even carry it if you can take its invisibility and give it to another sentinel with longer range of sight. Sorry, I can't back this idea up

[GhostFeng]

 

Honestly, this "balance mania" is a problem ,who cares if everybody use carrier? This dont take my fun , sometimes i fell me in a dictatorship here , everybody want control what gears others players need use , what the skill is tolerate , what weapon, what frame, im dont use carrier , my main sentinel is helios , if everyone want use sentinel ,frame, weapon ... This cant be a reason to make equipment worst only for personal satisfaction of some players, this s a reason to make others equipments better and improve game experience .  

 

This isn't even about balance mania or nerfing or buffing anything. I agree that the "balance mania" in this community does get annoying. This is about the fact that not everyone wants to use Carrier all the time. A few people are going to jump in and say "no one is forcing you to use Carrier all the time you are only forcing yourself. Look at me, I don't use Carrier and look how I turned out..." That's where you are wrong. Sure I could use any of the other sentinels and never touch Carrier ever again, and my experience with this game is going to immediately plummet because of how useless every other sentinel in the game is compared with the massive utility that Carrier provides. Some of us want to enjoy the diverse selection of sentinels that this game offers without feeling like we are only being forced through a lesser experience by not using Carrier.

 

It's not a necessity just because you don't have the patience (your words). It's just very good for your playstyle. That doesn't mean anything needs to be changed.

 

I do use a carrier sometimes. I just don't find it necessary. For the longest time the reason I used it was because I didn't feel like I was ready to bother with companions yet so I felt like it was just the easy choice that's useful without mods or a strong weapon.

 

So yes, I would advise new players to use it. It's definitely the best one until you're ready to actually invest in your companion.

 

Just because you are one of the 20% of players that choose to not use Carrier doesn't mean that 80% of the players in the game aren't all using Carrier for one reason or another.

 

I made this suggestion on another thread:

1. Make vacuum usable on all sentinels.
2. Give carrier the ability to "store" excess items you pick up, up to 100 of anything you collect. If you have full energy, using an ability will cause the carrier to drop an energy orb on you. If you reload 55 bullets into your soma prime, your carrier will drop 55 rifle bullets on you.

It is called carrier, so this new ability fits its name.

 

 

^ Best suggestion yet. Every sentinel becomes as useful as Carrier is now (worth using) and Carrier keeps it's name's functionality while becoming even more useful. Everyone that complains that they don't use Carrier because they don't want ammo and energy wasted when Carrier tops them off for 1 energy or 1 ammo, now Carrier would store the excess and give it to you when you need it. On ability use would be a good way to ensure the excess energy is not wasted and I'm sure a system for delivering ammo could easily be devised as well.

Edited February 7, 2016 by GhostFeng

[Marbelik]

Carrier vacuum ability just needs to become a passive ability on all companions! This way vacuum mod and its NEED is removed.

Carrier is revised/reviewed and gains another ability, for example "x %" more loot chance, or higher drop rate....

 

Some people are complaining about Loot chance or drop chance on certain warframes (thing you suggest here by implementing more loot chance on a certain sentinel). Mainly because they will be "forced" to use such certain warframe or sentinel when they want more loot (but they dont seem to care when they are forced to go Frost or Limbo for defense, or Mag, Ember, Ash for exterminates) :)