Fix Saryn's Rework, Please?

[YasaiTsume]

 

 

 

-math snip-

Personal preference? Like I said, people who use Meta setups just want to be safe.

If I wanna have fun and not have the displeasure of not using my other abilities as Nova, I'll go Saryn then. 

 

She does need a number buff for DoTs.

 

[Jerakl]

I'm sorry but I have to stick up for my girl Sayrn. Yes her energy cost is a bit high but not when you only use her 1st & 3rd abilities. (She doesn't need Maisma anymore tbh) Her armor doesn't need to be improved if she can shred her skin leaving a decoy behind. Her status procs & her ability to enable procs all over the place to so awesome. Love seeing Numbers Everywhere

 

Only problem I have with that is enemies sometimes can be a bit iffy in whether they target the molt or the player.

[paulogabbi]

Personal preference? Like I said, people who use Meta setups just want to be safe.

If I wanna have fun and not have the displeasure of not using my other abilities as Nova, I'll go Saryn then. 

 

She does need a number buff for DoTs.

 

+1 i really think saryn need some buffs i am not a fan of press 4 to win but her dmg is quite low and use allot of energy

[Ziegrif]

What I used to use her for.

1. Usually nothing as I disliked her P4W move set.
2. Quick rushes of Catalyst/Reactor invasion missions when time was of the essence and my worries of P4W didn't matter.

What I now use her for.

1. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING as there are far FAAAAAR better options. Course I haven't felt the need to step foot into invasion missions either after I got the Brakk and Detron so eh.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Ziegrif

[ShortCat]

I was not a great Saryn player before the rework, and I still didn't touch her after the rework. However, I would say reworked abilities sound much more interesting and compelling.

 

I see the cause of Saryn's dropping popularity not in her kit, but in other Frames. There are a lot of Frames, which are desighned so poorly, that they stand and live only with 1 ability in their kit (Mesa, was mentioned in this thread). Those abilities dominate and define the Frame and its playstile, not the way around, how it should be.

In the second half of 2015, I personally noticed a slightly different design approach concerning new Frames or reworks. I think DE tries to go away from the "One Trick Pony" mindset, and creates more interesting Frames with synergies and more active gameplay. (more like original Frames)

 

Again, it is not Saryn's fault, that Nova is a way better debuffer and CC Frame with godlike skillcap and difficulty of pressing 1 button. Needless to say Miasma is worse than Bladestorm(now, with the infinite scaling) in killing stuff, because pressing #4 has a high skillcap.

I think in near future we will see some reworks adressing those godlike skills.

[GideonG]

Saryn is fine. Anyone complaining is probably upset she isn't a press-4 to win frame anymore, and they're right. She's a press-1 to win frame now. I'll take a mini-m.prime as an easily spreadable 1 any day.

 

Also, to anyone comparing Nova to Saryn ... You can use both Nova and Saryn for double the damage dealing power. They're not exclusive. Don't forget that. Saryn + Nova or Saryn + Equinox is a pretty jam combo.

Edited February 10, 2016 by GideonG

[IceColdHawk]

she isn't a press-4 to win frame anymore, and they're right. She's a press-1 to win frame now. 

Sounds like a totally successful rework, doesn't it? Making you press an other button.

[Raso719]

While I am all for Saryn getting another, quick pass I do want to point put that her viral proc cuts enemy health in half and it does so to enemies in a huge radius. That means that your dread can one shot baddies further into a defense mission. Armor be damned you can cut a level 200 heavy gunner's health in half instantly. To do that otherotherwise would require you to sacrifice a corrosive weapon and instead use a viral one, hope for the proc to tick and then finish the enemy off before it gets its health back.

That said, I never use her #3 ability. For it it's all about that 1 and 2 combo. Her molt is great for distracting enemies, if place properly, and regenerative molt ia such a game changer to the frame. Armored agility and rage also combo pretty good with regenerative molt.

Idk, I don't think she's perfect by far but I also think that the meta mindset breeds an environment of stifled creativity. Maybe I'm not hard core enough to get what I'm missing out on but those are my thoughts on the subject.

[GideonG]

Sounds like a totally successful rework, doesn't it? Making you press an other button.

 

At least it makes her unique in that aspect. She's the only frame (as far as I know), whose 1 is almost as powerful as one of the "best" frame's 4 (Nova). Her 4 isn't amazing, but it does more damage than it did previously, provided you're using it alongside her 1. Using regenerative molt is also a pretty potent survival tool, provided you know where to place molts,

[Gregoriez]

Saryn prime access teaser sure opened up old wounds

[Khormalys]

Saryn is the dps frame that you could bring everywhere, from low level exterminate to 10 hours survival.

I'd rather take  equinox than saryn for a long survival with a trinity using wol+ev combo you can go pretty far

 

The thing with saryn rework is that 3 of her abilities are made to make her underwhelming ult into a decent ult which is still worth than prerework

[PsychedelicSnake]

The only change I'd really accept for Saryn now is buffing her armor to help with her Toxic Lash, but that's it. I'm kicking serious &#! with her current kit at the moment, and I genuinely don't understand when people say she is bad.

[EinheriarJudith]

The only change I'd really accept for Saryn now is buffing her armor to help with her Toxic Lash, but that's it. I'm kicking serious ! with her current kit at the moment, and I genuinely don't understand when people say she is bad.

if you look at what some of them are saying you see "it takes to many powers at a time to get the effect they want" "they use to many powers at a time which causes energy problems" the first one makes me laugh all the time because its pure laziness the second one can be remedied with different mod specs. i fully agree buff the armor up to maybe where excal is right now in base armor.

[Weltraumfred]

After (re)learning how to play her, I like the rework quite fine. I tend to use melee weapons with long reach and with toxic lash on spored enemies a lot, which does not only spread the viral proc around but also spreads the toxin proc. And if you use a heavily damaging Melee weapon, the toxin proc from toxic lash can sting quite a bit. I don't know if this is optimal, but I did max damage on several high level sorties.

 

I feel that she actually performs better if enemies are tougher. On low to mid level content she may seem a bit S#&$e, cuz it's difficult to spread the viral/toxin proc around with all enemies dying so easily.

 

She could use a whole lot of additional durability though. I hope that her primed variant gets a serious Armor and Health buff. Like in Armor 300-500 and base health of 150-175.

 

But I'd surely not complain if miasma gets a slight buff, like actually proccing corrosive at each tick. It's a bit anemic right now.

[EinheriarJudith]

After (re)learning how to play her, I like the rework quite fine. I tend to use melee weapons with long reach and with toxic lash on spored enemies a lot, which does not only spread the viral proc around but also spreads the toxin proc. And if you use a heavily damaging Melee weapon, the toxin proc from toxic lash can sting quite a bit. I don't know if this is optimal, but I did max damage on several high level sorties.

 

I feel that she actually performs better if enemies are tougher. On low to mid level content she may seem a bit S#&$e, cuz it's difficult to spread the viral/toxin proc around with all enemies dying so easily.

 

She could use a whole lot of additional durability though. I hope that her primed variant gets a serious Armor and Health buff. Like in Armor 300-500 and base health of 150-175.

 

But I'd surely not complain if miasma gets a slight buff, like actually proccing corrosive at each tick. It's a bit anemic right now.

my friend what i love most about toxic lash is that ANY spore target you hit spreads spores in an unending manner while gaining energy back for just hitting with melee with toxic lash on. someone mentioned that toxic lash should be a toggle and i fully agree.

[SwooceRaiden]

while mesa still eats energy , no one cares....

Everyone is still bitter about Mesa being so excellent for so long. Recently that same tide has shifted towards Excalibur - he's getting a ton of hate from Valkyr mains.

[Gregoriez]

Everyone is still bitter about Mesa being so excellent for so long. Recently that same tide has shifted towards Excalibur - he's getting a ton of hate from Valkyr mains.

The ride of hate never ends!!

[NKDG]

She was never meant to be a melee tank. When DE released her, she was THE DoT/Debuff Warframe. But because DE released corrupted mods and min/maxing was a thing. Everyone made Saryn into what she was not.

If she's not meant to be a melee tank...

A: why'd she have the highest health pool pre rework?

B: WHY DOES SHE HAVE TOXIC LASH???

[Buzkyl]

-snip- for space

 

 

The entire first half argument of your comes into "I can't instantly nuke rooms anymore, shes disappointing".  You're right that the current Miasma is no longer a nuke on it's own however the current Saryn is no longer a nuker frame. Saryn was specifically reworked to be a debuffer frame, you're stilling clinging to the pressing 4.

 

Ofcourse i'd call miasma a bad skill now but you're using the current state of miasma to show ow saryn is a disappointment, while completely ignoring the synergy between her other 3 skills. Which just shows me you use Saryn as a nuke, and now that she can't nuke anymore, she's horrible. Ofcourse she would be, if you can't look past your 4 button.

 

And going further my comment was not at the effectiveness of miasma but how simple it is to combo her skills.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Buzkyl

[THND3RZ]

Personally i absolutely love using her now.

Only thing i would want are some QOL buffs.

Like invulnerability on her molt for 3-5 seconds.

Being able to cast her 3rd spell while moving.

 

And of course, a bit more HP and armor.

 

Frankly i love her "combo" concept even if it cost energy.I'm not the type of person that SPAM abilities,i only spam her spore because it's so damn useful but i'm only using my energy for groups of mob.

[Birdframe_Prime]

Agreeing with people asking for her armour and health back, I was genuinely surprised to see that nerfed. Toxic Lash is now an incredibly good way to go for melee, and with a nerf to those basic stats that allow her to go melee, I'm at a loss as to what DE were trying to achieve.

 

Dropping a Molt, especially with Regenerative Molt, is a good distraction, which might benefit from having a short invulnerability timer in most situations, but that still doesn't solve her getting shredded when she tries to close the distance to start popping spores.

 

I really love Sporing everything in sight, then Toxic Lashing to spread it around even more, the guaranteed Viral proc makes it all worth it at high level, especially since it doubles the damage of Miasma.

 

I don't love casting Molt, Spore and then dropping to the floor immediately due to the crowd of mobs that's blitzed my Molt drawing a bead on me before I can close the gap. After a certain point in most high level endless runs, I'm having to resort to using 4 as a stun, dropping molt, going ham on a few enemies I can reach and then chucking out another Miasma to deal damage before they can recover. It really is a little nerve-wracking, especially when you might be running with other melee frames like Ash, who can literally press 4 to nuke all your hard work.

 

But here's the real rub; this is now a DoT debuffer frame, correct? But the argument is that, with the new synergy her abilities have, she can actually deal more DoT than she could with her former Nuke abilities.

 

tl;dr I like her, I just wish she wasn't as squishy, and that her Prime variant will take away the squishy.

 

Except... here's another chunk of text on my real issues:

 

Hear me out on this; if you're like me, you like to make builds that are effective against each enemy type, so that you can do better under those conditions, but you almost can't with the new rework. Like min-maxing, but not as extreme, just different builds for different mission types.

 

Now it's like a game of rock-paper-scissors that you can't win. You can make her, with the right mods, overall have better duration, better power and better range, but only a medium increase of each.

 

If you put on more strength to deal the optimum best damage, you reduce your duration enough to make the DoT about the same as if you upped her duration instead. I like the argument that efficiency allows for more ability use over time, thus more damage, but again, less duration means each cast deals less damage, making the net gain in casts negligible. Up the duration for more time, right? Except that this would reduce her range which would be fine if she was able to take a lot of damage at close range... which she can't. And then compensating for loss of range would reduce her power, so her DoT gets re-balanced back to about the same. See?

 

As I say, you can make her a certain amount better overall, but unlike other warframes where you can lose one thing and not need it in some situations, (Like Loki, you don't need power strength, so it's a matter of which you prefer out of duration, range and efficiency, which can be averaged out or specialised. Or Trin, who can lose duration to allow for spamming max-strength, max-range EV and insta-Blessing.) the new Saryn relies on all four; range, strength, duration and efficiency and a loss to any one means she can't hit those higher numbers.

 

Who else has found that? Or am I missing something completely obvious?

[NKDG]

Less HP WITHOUT any reason is also a dumb concept. Don't serve me your fail-story about the armor. It is nowhere helping Saryn.

To prove this point, I ran numbers. We lost roughly 300 max health for a measly 52 max armor buff

[ClinkzEastwood]

To prove this point, I ran numbers. We lost roughly 300 max health for a measly 52 max armor buff

What's the meaning of health if everything in this game oneshot you anyway unless you have 30000+ EHP or just straigth up invulnerablity?

[NKDG]

What's the meaning of health if everything in this game oneshot you anyway unless you have 30000+ EHP or just straigth up invulnerablity?

She can't survive anything that hard anyways, but she dies much easier in situations where it still matters. I don't run high enough endless to where it doesn't matter (I'm guessing you're talking about 150+?). 52 health < ~300 health regardless

[YasaiTsume]

She can't survive anything that hard anyways, but she dies much easier in situations where it still matters. I don't run high enough endless to where it doesn't matter (I'm guessing you're talking about 150+?). 52 health < ~300 health regardless

Saryn's EHP got nerfed because she was given a bigger Energy Pool.

They did it to effectively stop people from using Regen Molt and standing there for enemies to shoot as to refill her Energy Pool using Rage.

Still not happy with the Health nerf tho.

If they were to buff her Armor, at least jack it up to 300 ~ 450 like Atlas or Frost. 

(Hell even 200 would be fine.....)

Edited February 11, 2016 by YasaiTsume