Fix Saryn's Rework, Please?

[-CM-Hekovashi]

I still like how people think Spores + Molt + Miasma combo takes a long time to setup. 

Takes mere seconds, and the ensuing explosion spreads the Spores for the caster.

 

Ash-just point at the dude-boom done, with frost don't even need to point-just 4, instant result, can saryn do the same?

 

 

Some frames also require "All stats" to function, ie. Exalted Blade Excalibur who uses Blind.

What I would say is, Saryn's most effective build requires all stats to function.

I mean, if I were to run a pure Melee build, I would not need Range and Efficiency that much etc.

 

Both eb and blind excal build strong on their own, sure you can combine those and it's gonna be even more devastating, you didn't have tho, each of those build's can survive on their own. But each of saryn skill is crap on their own, you need whole her toolkit and even then nothing can guarantee you survivability-no cc, no little struggling from miasma doesn't count as cc and molt going down too fast in high lvl to be reliable. Pure melee saryn lol

[(PSN)Gulgor1]

I still like how people think Spores + Molt + Miasma combo takes a long time to setup. 

Takes mere seconds, and the ensuing explosion spreads the Spores for the caster.

Not strictly true.

Some frames also require "All stats" to function, ie. Exalted Blade Excalibur who uses Blind.

What I would say is, Saryn's most effective build requires all stats to function.

I mean, if I were to run a pure Melee build, I would not need Range and Efficiency that much etc.

 

Even then you dont want to reduce the range too much or the draw of that build (to spread spores with Toxic Lash and gain energy while doing that) is effected with it.

Nor do you want to reduce power strenght too much to gain range as that will reduce the damage buff from Toxic Lash and and spore damage as well as making Regenerative Molt less effective.

 

I actully like how the new Saryn plays, i just think she needs more crowd controll (either by making the miasma stun longer or making molt last at higher levels or both) to help her kit get going.

 

Making Miasma act like Embers Accelerant but with a armor reduction instead of dmg buff and with a longer stun to help her damage over time get the work done.

 

A buff to the ability base stats would not also hurt, miasma could use some extra range and mayby upping base damage buff of Toxic Lash to 50% (or 100% if you want to push her harder to the melee caster frame niche).

 

The biggest thing that i did not like with the rework however was the reduction of base health from 150 to 125, as that was one of the main reasons as a new player i build her as one of my first frames, and she has been one of my favorites.

[ClinkzEastwood]

Ash-just point at the dude-boom done, with frost don't even need to point-just 4, instant result, can saryn do the same?

 

 

Can Ash or frost deal damage reliably against lvl 300+ enemies?

[YasaiTsume]

Can Ash or frost deal damage reliably against lvl 300+ enemies?

I love seeing an Ash get stuck in Bladestorm trying to kill a Level 100 Bombard lol.

It's hilarious seeing everyone just doing their stuff and yu see that one Ash locked in Bladestorm stabbing a Bombard like 10 times. 

 

 

But Frost is actually in a better state, damage wise, than Saryn.

He is usually built as a tank to support his Globe, but if he invests in Range and Efficiency, he can destroy mobs with Avalanche, and even those that are not killed, gets 40% Armor Reduction. 

Edited February 17, 2016 by YasaiTsume

[(PSN)Gulgor1]

Frost is a good example of a the issue of Saryn needing too many stats to work, Avalanche deals more dmg then miasma, while also freezing longer then miasma stuns and having a armor reduction that lasts longer then miasmas stun even with negative duration.

You can even take it the other direction and you can freeze the world for almost forever.

Even though Avalanche has the freezing and armor reduction being effected by power duration, even at negative power duration they still last long enough to have a purpose and none of Frosts other powers are much worse for it.

 

While Saryn loses a lot by going negative on eny stat, not everything mind you, but a lot still.

 

Rhino is a another example of a well done frame in terms of stats, even though he is effected by alot of them, they have high enough base duration/range/dmg or just plain utility that you can go slighty negative and still have a functioning power.

 

I like to go slighty negative (-80% or so) with Rhino and still stomp and roar have enough duration to get the job done.

Saryn in much more tricky in that sense, she is not the only one though, there are a few who suffer from this, most recent being Nezha, who also suffers from very long cast animations but that is not the topic at hand.

 

Giving more base range or mayby duration on some of Saryn powers would help with going a little negative. I like the idea of giving more utility however as it would round her kit more but we will see what DE chooses to do with her (if enything).

Edited February 17, 2016 by (PS4)Gulgor1

[tripletriple]

Too bad DE is too afraid of the community to make any real changes to frames like this.

This might come as a surprise to you, but not everyone is interested in your vision of the game. 

[Inmemoratus]

Saryn's so fun. I rarely played her because she just didn't interest me. Now that I have prime and I've been leveling her, I realized there's nothing else quite like casting spores and then a minute later seeing enemies all over the place taking many, many ticks of DoT... or setting up a molt and spamming a bunch of spores on it, then seeing enemies pop it and get covered in spores.

 

The one complaint I have is if I blow up all the enemies with Miasma after I have a lot of spores going, all of them die at once so the whole epidemic of spores I had going just abruptly ends, as they have no more victims to infect. :( I'd like to see an augment for Miasma that leaves behind some kind of spore pods from enemies that it kills while they had spores on them that would infect other enemies later.

 

As for survivability, Quick Thinking, just like every other frame. Deal with it.

 

She's great. Stop whining.

Edited February 17, 2016 by Inmemoratus

[Warmage_Timeraider]

75% of other Warframes are in a waaay worse state than Saryn, dont see a reason for the devs to prioritise her atm.

[S0V3REiGN]

Only thing i really want changed is Miasma, it's just not in a good place right now. It's completely lack luster on its own damage wise, the range is mediocre at best and its dependant on enemy status states to be marginally worth using. This is not an ultimate, this is not worth the energy it requires to be used. I think reducing the cost and or increasing the range may be something they should consider or outright replacing it.

Edited February 17, 2016 by S0V3REiGN

[RealPandemonium]

Can Ash or frost deal damage reliably against lvl 300+ enemies?

Ash can, due to stacking Finisher damage DoT with BS and increasing it by several times with melee combo.  Frost does pretty good AOE damage with Avalanche but nothing special compared to Miasma.  Frost's real advantage is the armor debuff and Snowglobe dealing 50% of enemy max HP as Finisher damage.  Basically, if Saryn had a built-in bandaid for ignoring enemy armor (nevermind that Miasma already ignores 75% of Ferrite) then she would be the undisputed ability damage king, rivaled only by Ember and frames whose abilities scale on [overtuned] weapon damage.

 

I love seeing an Ash get stuck in Bladestorm trying to kill a Level 100 Bombard lol.

It's hilarious seeing everyone just doing their stuff and yu see that one Ash locked in Bladestorm stabbing a Bombard like 10 times. 

 

 

But Frost is actually in a better state, damage wise, than Saryn.

He is usually built as a tank to support his Globe, but if he invests in Range and Efficiency, he can destroy mobs with Avalanche, and even those that are not killed, gets 40% Armor Reduction. 

A properly-built Ash won't be stabbing that Bombard for very long, and ideally he would be killing several at once after a few seconds.

 

Frost doesn't come close to Saryn's raw damage potential, except for his armor-ignoring gimmicks.  Once you have CPs in play or are not fighting Grineer, there's no longer any competition.  Ideally, Frost would be lowering enemy armor so that Saryn could destroy them without the need for CPs.

[IceColdHawk]

Can Ash or frost deal damage reliably against lvl 300+ enemies? 

What if i told you that i've actually killed lvl 300+ enemies on triton using the globe crush technique?

[Noja87]

I dont know. I prefer the new Saryn. She is more fun to play. I always found press button to clear room nuke abilities really boring. I just wish she did more damage but the new play style is just better I think. 

[AzureTerra]

I'd say you've been in the mission too long.

[SairentoDangan]

I personally think you guys need to improvise on how to use Saryn.

Energy consume too much? Fine, slap rage. Then Rege Molt to regain health. Rinse. Repeat.

Damage to complicated to max with Miasma?

Solution: Slap all your dual element / Status on IGNIS, with Firestorm and [Longer beam mod here], spray the VIRAL weapon (yes, Ignis with Viral/ Rad and all Status mod in it), then pop a Molt, then Miasma.

Since Miasma will explode the Molt BEFORE the Miasma damage ticks, dealing Toxin in AOE, AFTER the enemies was spray with VIRAL/RAD busying slapping each other in the face, and deal the sweet sweet 200% more Miasma damage.

With about < 60 energy? I think? It's a considerable amount of Energy for a full room of Toxin/ Viral/ Corosive/ Radiation enemies. Ever seen that? Try it, it's fun and DEAL S#&$ TONS OF DAMAGE.

And if you can't go Ignis because you want to use another weapon and still want to maximize her abilities? Too bad, more energy consume and skills to spread Toxin / Viral. Too bad. Dont complain on that now, that's your choice.

And for someone who also call Mesa is Dead. No. She is a god now.

Slap Dura + Eff + Str into her. Her 4 consume 3,5 energy/s, her 3 reduce bullet damage by whooping 95% for more than 30s, Her 2 + 42,5% damage to her and her 4. 

Ever stand inside 20 75 heavy gunner for 30s without moving and still alive? That's how she is now.

Aim with your 4, pewpewpew, cool cowgirl with TANKING AIMING skill.

 

Bonus: Ignis build: http://goo.gl/PN9m8B (you can swap Catalyzer Link for Sinister Reach or anything related to Status)

 

Saryn Build: http://goo.gl/HqiXdL (More range = less damage per tick, but more enemies struck, swap Intensify with Stretch).

Edited February 17, 2016 by SairentoDangan

[Machayna]

I like the new Saryn considerably more but if really comes down to play style.  I haven't had any issues playing saryn up to approximately 35 minutes in T4S.  The reason was that I was trying to run her as a melee frame I think.  I'm interesting to find out though with the new melee mod (body count I think) that increases the duration on the duration of your multiplier if things would be a ton easier.  

 

I did see someone say "I use more energy than most people and I'm still fine"......I'd like to know how that person concluded that they use more energy than most people.  Is there a place to view that stat?  Anyway on energy I'd have to say I'm fine with energy until I hit that 30-35 minute mark where the armor starts to come into play more.  Up to that point just using spores with toxic lash will take out most mobs in a hurry.  It's when you have to start popping regen molt like crazy to stay alive and hitting miasma for that stun that things really become an issue.  At least that's my experience with it.  I'm sure there are people who have figured out how to deal with the higher level mobs in a more efficient way with saryn than I have.  If you have please post.  I'd love to hear your strategy.  Other than high status corrosive weapons I guess.

 

Ultimately I think she's in a better place than she was with the press 4 to win spam (again just preference) but I do understand why people are upset based on the way she was.  

[SairentoDangan]

 I'm sure there are people who have figured out how to deal with the higher level mobs in a more efficient way with saryn than I have.  If you have please post.  I'd love to hear your strategy.  Other than high status corrosive weapons I guess.

 

 

Hey use my build above, Viral will cut off their health, Rad will make then attack each other, Coro from Miasma will melt them, then you go in and slash them with your Meele.

Edited February 17, 2016 by SairentoDangan

[RealPandemonium]

 

Hey use my build above, Viral will cut off their health, Rad will make then attack each other, Coro from Miasma will melt them, then you go in and slash them with your Meele.

Why use a Viral Ignis?  People keep posting this but I'm still not seeing the synergy.  Spores inflict Viral pretty much for free, and indefinitely in a large AOE.  Is Viral used because it is the complement to Radiation?  Why not just go full Radiation (or add some Toxin for supplementary Toxin procs without energy use or weapon switch?)

Edited February 17, 2016 by RealPandemonium

[-CM-Hekovashi]

Only thing i really want changed is Miasma, it's just not in a good place right now. It's completely lack luster on its own damage wise, the range is mediocre at best and its dependant on enemy status states to be marginally worth using. This is not an ultimate, this is not worth the energy it requires to be used. I think reducing the cost and or increasing the range may be something they should consider or outright replacing it.

There several ways to fix miasma and keep it more or less same, and all of those is a + range and ether armor reduction(due to corrosive proc or just flat percentage based) or increased stagger effect, that immobilize enemies for 5-6 sec, this will make it a reliable CC skill. It can be both and for energy it cost it should be both.

Edited February 17, 2016 by Hekovashi

[Brynslustafir]

I liked the Nova Rework, but I really can't say that I like the Saryn rework at all. It isn't even slightly fun. And I guess that's my biggest issue with it. It's not really about stats or math for me. That is, unless the stats and math are so unreasonably skewed that they start to affect the frames casual playability. I'm not talking about hardcore 2 hour t4 survival runs, I'm talking about just equipping a frame and doing a run on Ceres just for fun. I feel like I can't use Saryn for anything but the most damage-focused missions, and that's kinda sad. She's so demanding and finicky to use that she simply isn't fun. I don't want to have to take everything 100% seriously. And I feel burned out just from trying to learn her. 

 

It also doesn't help that I put 5 Forma on her before the rework, only to have to change almost all of them afterwards because she's a completely different frame now. 

Edited February 17, 2016 by Plasmaface

[SairentoDangan]

 

 

 

Why use a Viral Ignis?  People keep posting this but I'm still not seeing the synergy.  Spores inflict Viral pretty much for free, and indefinitely in a large AOE.  Is Viral used because it is the complement to Radiation?  Why not just go full Radiation (or add some Toxin for supplementary Toxin procs without energy use or weapon switch?)

 

Viral/ Rad Ignis with Firestorm and Sinister Reach and high Status will proc almost every sec,  and most of all: It deal way more damage than Spore itself. Because it's a gun, that can do the same thing Spore skill can do, with way more damage, and no cast time or Mana cost. Isn't that convenient? 

Or we can do that the old way: Molt > Spore on Molt / Enemies > Shoot > Miasma or shoot them to dead. 

Edited February 17, 2016 by SairentoDangan

[Mr.Lube]

This might come as a surprise to you, but not everyone is interested in your vision of the game. 

True. But ALOT of people aren't happy with the current state of the game's "combat". Warframe punishes you for not using frames that break the game.

Warframe is either extremely boring and tedious, or horrendously frustrating. There is no middle ground. 

[Machayna]

And for someone who also call Mesa is Dead. No. She is a god now.

Slap Dura + Eff + Str into her. Her 4 consume 3,5 energy/s, her 3 reduce bullet damage by whooping 95% for more than 30s, Her 2 + 42,5% damage to her and her 4. 

Ever stand inside 20 75 heavy gunner for 30s without moving and still alive? That's how she is now.

Agreed.  She's definitely not dead.  Of course that damage reduction was active before the change to peacemaker so she was a god before the change as well.  Basically her other skills are just as useful as they were before and peacemaker is still good but you have to almost approach it as she's only going to attack what's in front of her instead of being a 360 turret.  I believe she still does hit targets behind and to the sides for a short period with my build but I don't count on it like I did when she was the turret.  I can clear everything in front of me pretty easy.

[Machayna]

Hey use my build above, Viral will cut off their health, Rad will make then attack each other, Coro from Miasma will melt them, then you go in and slash them with your Meele.

I'll try it again.  I did use viral/rad ignis before and I think I even tried the same combo with the torrid.  It seemed to not hit as well as the armor increased.  I'll give it a shot again tonight though.  Thanks for the tip.

[EinheriarJudith]

 

 

 

Why use a Viral Ignis?  People keep posting this but I'm still not seeing the synergy.  Spores inflict Viral pretty much for free, and indefinitely in a large AOE.  Is Viral used because it is the complement to Radiation?  Why not just go full Radiation (or add some Toxin for supplementary Toxin procs without energy use or weapon switch?)

 

its complimentary. a saryn that is constantly spreading viral is a strong one. he is using radiation which is great for taking the heat off yourself i use viral heat and viral rad specs(ignis, and embolist with syndicate mod which also procs viral) its psychotic the amount of damage. her frames powers revolve around viral and toxin so its best to stick with the combo she is master at.

 

Edited February 17, 2016 by EinheriarJudith

[Machayna]

Thanks for the pic.  I'll have to try that.  I need to get my hands on heavy caliber yet.  I'm betting that would make a bit of difference.  But then you'd lose a spot for firestorm.  Switch out for vile acceleration maybe.