Xiusa Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Passive: Trickster’s Gambit Loki can always perform finishers from behind. Loki also goes through enemy units when sliding or performing any parkour move. Decoy: Loki sends out a hologram of himself in the direction he is facing, stopping at the location of his crosshairs at the time of casting. Decoys last until killed or 10 / 15 / 20 / 30 seconds elapse and have x10 the health, shields, and armour of Loki. Each additional Decoy reduces the amount of time all active Decoys have left by 1. Decoys will draw enemy fire, unless they cannot see or reach the Decoy. Loki can swap places with a decoy if Loki holds the casting button while targeting them. Decoys will utilize parkour/maneuvers if required to get to their destination and will wall cling indefinitely if that is their destination. Decoys deal 1 damage to enemies while Loki is firing at them, confusing the enemy as to which Loki is the real one. Costs 25 energy. BONUS: Decoys will copy your idle animations and emotes. Trick: Loki spins enemies in an area around, confusing them. Loki spins enemies in a 2 / 2.5 / 3 / 4 / 5m radius around from his target, causing them to face the opposite direction of their current position and apply a stack of Trick. Stacks of Trick apply a 3% accuracy loss for 5 / 7 / 9 / 12 seconds, stacking up to 50% loss of accuracy. While Trick is applied to an enemy, they are able to deal damage to their allies. Trick benefits from an ability combo counter, which will increase the base amount of accuracy loss. Costs 25 energy. Imitate: Loki copies the last ability his target used, allowing himself to use it. If it is an ally’s ability, it will utilize both Loki’s and his ally’s mods. If it is an enemy ability, it will factor in Loki’s mods as well as the enemy’s level. You may hold up to 4 abilities, tap to switch and hold to cast. A fifth slot is available, but only to clear out all currently held abilities. Costs 75 energy. Deja Vu: Loki releases a wave of energy, affecting all enemies within 15 / 20 / 25 / 30m. After 5 seconds all affected enemies return to their position from when Deja Vu was cast. Any timer that was on them apart from Deja Vu timers will revert to what they were when Deja Vu affected them. Such as if a Slash status had 3 seconds left, upon being teleported by Deja Vu, the Slash status will return at 3 seconds. Costs 100 energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rorgal_Sina Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 What's wrong with Loki's current setup tho? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiusa Posted February 16, 2016 Author Share Posted February 16, 2016 What's wrong with Loki's current setup tho? Decoy is used only as a means to use Switch Teleport. Switch Teleport is only used as a means to troll or to switch with your Decoy to your desired location. Invisibility isn't that bad but for a Warframe that's advertised as "desired by advanced players" it really doesn't help. Radial Disarm wouldn't be a problem if enemies had different AI or mechanics or SOMETHING aside from just a barely functional glow-stick. That falls into a problem on its own but still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sormatte Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Are you going to buff his survivability stats? Cause it seems like he will be very dependent on allies to survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accelerator-EN- Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 His current skill is good imo and invis does help in spy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiusa Posted February 16, 2016 Author Share Posted February 16, 2016 Are you going to buff his survivability stats? Cause it seems like he will be very dependent on allies to survive. Decoy's beefed up stats should help out with that, if not there's always his natural high speed or Trick to reduce enemy accuracy. His current skill is good imo and invis does help in spy It's not about whether they're "good" or not, or whether they help in a certain mission type or not. It's about how outdated he is and how bland his kit is while being advertised as a Warframe that "advanced players" would enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sormatte Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Decoy's beefed up stats should help out with that, if not there's always his natural high speed or Trick to reduce enemy accuracy. It's not about whether they're "good" or not, or whether they help in a certain mission type or not. It's about how outdated he is and how bland his kit is while being advertised as a Warframe that "advanced players" would enjoy. If he is going to be reliant on decoy to keep himself alive, I assume that it will draw most if not all of the enemies aggro? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiusa Posted February 16, 2016 Author Share Posted February 16, 2016 If he is going to be reliant on decoy to keep himself alive, I assume that it will draw most if not all of the enemies aggro? That's how it's supposed to work anyway, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sormatte Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 That's how it's supposed to work anyway, isn't it? Well, they might have to rework enemy AI for that to take effect, most of the time they end up still shooting where I was even though I went invis after casting decoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratego89 Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 I'll start by saying that I do not like Loki how he is now. His ST and decoy could definitely be combined- good thinking on that one. Invisibility is way too overpowered- but it's not he skill's fault really. I need reworking in a way that tones it down but still lets it function how it is meant to. Trick is an interesting suggestion that could maybe work for his new 2 to replace ST (ST is his current 3, iirc. But invis should be moved up there to reflect how powerful it is). Imitate would create a lot of problems and just in general be clunky to use and OP if you manage to use it right (or when squads get together to abuse game mechanics *cough* draco *cough*). Don't really like the suggestion of Deja Vu. That would be better for the time frame people so desperately want, and even then it's... questionable at best. TL;DR Yes Loki could use some TLC. Yes decoy/ST should be one skill. No I don't like the other ideas. No invisibility should not totally go away- simply be altered in a way that doesn't make it all powerful (ivara has energy drain and slowed movement. Ash's smokescreen I believe will someday inevitably become an actual smokescreen that you throw that fills up a room with accuracy reducing smoke... please DE?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKKILLA Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Passive: Trickster’s Gambit Loki can always perform finishers from behind. Loki also goes through enemy units when sliding or performing any parkour move. Decoy: Loki sends out a hologram of himself in the direction he is facing, stopping at the location of his crosshairs at the time of casting. Decoys last until killed or 10 / 15 / 20 / 30 seconds elapse and have x10 the health, shields, and armour of Loki. Each additional Decoy reduces the amount of time all active Decoys have left by 1. Decoys will draw enemy fire, unless they cannot see or reach the Decoy. Loki can swap places with a decoy if Loki holds the casting button while targeting them. Decoys will utilize parkour/maneuvers if required to get to their destination and will wall cling indefinitely if that is their destination. Decoys deal 1 damage to enemies while Loki is firing at them, confusing the enemy as to which Loki is the real one. Costs 25 energy. BONUS: Decoys will copy your idle animations and emotes. Trick: Loki spins enemies in an area around, confusing them. Loki spins enemies in a 2 / 2.5 / 3 / 4 / 5m radius around from his target, causing them to face the opposite direction of their current position and apply a stack of Trick. Stacks of Trick apply a 3% accuracy loss for 5 / 7 / 9 / 12 seconds, stacking up to 50% loss of accuracy. While Trick is applied to an enemy, they are able to deal damage to their allies. Trick benefits from an ability combo counter, which will increase the base amount of accuracy loss. Costs 25 energy. Imitate: Loki copies the last ability his target used, allowing himself to use it. If it is an ally’s ability, it will utilize both Loki’s and his ally’s mods. If it is an enemy ability, it will factor in Loki’s mods as well as the enemy’s level. You may hold up to 4 abilities, tap to switch and hold to cast. A fifth slot is available, but only to clear out all currently held abilities. Costs 75 energy. Deja Vu: Loki releases a wave of energy, affecting all enemies within 15 / 20 / 25 / 30m. After 5 seconds all affected enemies return to their position from when Deja Vu was cast. Any timer that was on them apart from Deja Vu timers will revert to what they were when Deja Vu affected them. Such as if a Slash status had 3 seconds left, upon being teleported by Deja Vu, the Slash status will return at 3 seconds. Costs 100 energy. The one Frame thats not needed of buffs in fact, when the heck will he get a Nerf? All these Nerf Exalted Blade Nerf Hysteria Nerf Bladestorm Threads but when will Loki get a nice lil Nerf? If I recall He is the most Vital and Important Frame in Warframe and has the most utility and great invisibility. This Frame is Near Perfection I see him as the Hidden Poster Boy and Favored By a World of people. Question, why is Excalibur the alleged Posterboy when Loki is a Statue in Dojo? Let that sink in........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKKILLA Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 I kinda like this, its actually about Ruining Loki instead of Buffing him, No more Invisibility, Radial Disarm, This sounds Great +1 to Nerfing Loki :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EX-Zanki Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 You know.. that sounds like an entire different warframe to me... maybe some of your stuff can be used when creating a new one... having said that... a warframe is not only it's looks but its powers and stats... About that "desired by advanced players" sentence... i gotta say... its very subjective and should not be used as an excuse for a rework.. or more like it seems...a complete change... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TennoSimons Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 I think any attempt to get a Loki rework off the ground that removes invisibility will be a non-starter. With that said, I really like your ''imitate'' move. I would totally get behind that as an augment for switch teleport. Also like your proposed passives. And I like your idea for decoy. But the rest of it I personally could do without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swizzybeatzjamz Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 This is amazing rework for loki. So many people are blinded by his effectiveness and forget that this is a game and your supposed to have fun. Lokis kit is effective but boring. This rework really focuses on his trickster theme and it is amazing regardless of what anyone says. Bravo good man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autongnosis Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 I think there are some nice idea there except for the ultimate that would be (imho) a really bad breeding ground for exploits .-. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Aquarii Ptosi Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 (edited) Honestly most of lokis techs just need a revamp not a rework. To say invis is bad is just stupid. Loki pretty much is only utilized for invis an disarm. So he's only even really needs range an duration. I'd probably suggest this... Decoy being able to cast multiple Decoysthat move and act like nekros shadowz the number dmg an durability based of off Power strnght(cap them at about 5ish?) they have a noise arrow effect so enemies because more hostile tword them rather allies and yourself. While retaining their explosion on death. Switch teleport Allow him to teleport anywhere just when he does he has a radial burst that acts like shockwaves knocking enemies down. Aside from that invis is fine and so is disarm. Half of your passive was good the other half is just op. No he should not get free finishers just because he's invisible. I'd say maybe while he's invisible let him phase through enemies that'd be cool. But that'd be it as Loki is already pretty strong. As for ppl that call frames like him squishy..... Quick thinking? Lol Edited February 16, 2016 by (XB1)Aquarii Ptosi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chroia Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 (edited) Imitate: So a squad of 4 Lokis would be a Blue Mage Group? ----- Always rear-finishers is a bandaid. Finishers in general need a retooling. Noclip parkour is interesting. Decoy is nice. Might actually make it useful. The problem is "unless they cannot see or reach the Decoy" doesn't seem to exist in the current AI, afaik. I mean, be in a squad, have enemies alerted then go invis and scout. The enemies will be stalking towards your teammates, aiming in a straight line at them through 6 walls and from 60+ meters away. Trick is interesting, but suffers from the usual limitations of a very reactionary active defensive ability. *Door opens* *Ohshi~ Scorch/Ballista/Tech/Bombard/Napalm/etc.!* *Cas-dead* Also, unless Trick affects enemy AI, friendly fire won't matter much as they won't target them. Imitate: Sounds awesome. Sounds either too good or completely useless. Sounds like it'll require a lot of code and art support. I don't see how Deja Vu would be useful, even aside from the computational costs it would incur. There's a reason that similar abilities (like the DotA Weaver's Time Lapse ability) is self only. And it's a completely different genre. I'm not sure how well it would translate into a horde-mode PvE TPS. tl;dr - I like the direction, but more refining in needed, either to it or to enemy AI. Edited February 16, 2016 by Chroia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeonNemesis Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Look if you want this kind of frame just suggest it as a new one, but Loki is fine. Each time I take a look at these threads it seems it's not about balance, it's about changing frames just because. The fact that random frames appear in the forums all the time as "needing" balance or rework shows that ppl are not searching for balance but rather using it as an excuse to make random experiments or to shape a frame the way they want it to be. I'm not even sure what he is supposed to do with those abilities Decoy is an half decoy switch teleport expect weaker that both, if you want to place your decoy behind lasers you can't because he runs through it, so your switch teleport is useless, your switch teleport is also almost useless as you need decoy to arrive there and you need to guide the hologram, I'm sure enemies will be kind enough to stop shooting you to let you place the hologram in the right place so you can escape when being under fire. Trick what is supposed to be the use of this? Wasting your whole energy to give your enemies 50% reduced accuracy? Enemies are with their backs turned to you for the passive finisher? Turning around for enemies seems such a strenuous task... Copying abilities of teammates? Really? Look guys I have this frame that has 3 useless skills plus the ability to copy 1 of your abilities, because, it's not like you already have that ability... It's only possible usage outside of the realm of completely useless would be copying Eximus abilities. And the ulti is a... position reset? Oh look it reset proc stacks, now we can kill enemies with procs by extending them a few more seconds. And they go back to where they where 5 seconds ago... for what exactly? It will have some minimal utility on infested, a very poor one, and probably in the troll area, but what will it work against grineer, corpus, corrupted and sentients? Pick the worse frame in warframe no matter which one you think he is and he's god tier next to this, the only thing kind of ok in this Super-nerf is the abilities copy which makes zero sense relying on things your teammates can already do. Couple this with the destruction of a well though frame that is fine at the moment. Let that sink in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necr0Ra1se Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 I sorry but what most of your ideas are garbage....no offence. Loki is fun and powerfull as it is....he don't need any rework r buff\nerfs.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necr0Ra1se Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 It's not about whether they're "good" or not, or whether they help in a certain mission type or not. It's about how outdated he is and how bland his kit is while being advertised as a Warframe that "advanced players" would enjoy. Sorry again but you said bullS#&$...As loki player i don't have any problems with his "outated" thing....All his powers work great even after 2 years.... All buffs\rework is about to bust some old frames that lost their role in the group or was P2W....and you want to Nerf a good frame becouse you think he is outdated? How about a good buff For volt instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-dicht.Amducias- Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vantooth Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 May I suggest to never use a dark font again? It took me 10x more concentration (and time) to read it. Night theme user, cause you know my poor eyes hate bright. Deja vu seems... useless. I mean I really can't see any situation it would be useful. Radial Disarm fit him, just make it so the weapons drop on the ground and they try to recover them after a few seconds giving you a chance to shoot them. Imitate is useless solo since there's no way you can copy non-tenno ability. I don't think warframes trickster's need something like this. Trick is nice and the best part imo, except what's with the wanna-be radiation proc? Just outright make it radiation or a accuracy debuff. I think having some kind of imitation cloak/copy appearance would be better than his current invisibility. For example you copy a grineer Lancer, for all effect enemies believe your are a grineer lancer (making you invisible) If you start attacking them, they can then target you. While it is on you get a bonus to EVASION like on the drift mod which decrease enemy accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimCorsair Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Rough ideas, to be sure, but it's a solid start to making Loki actually feel like the trickster he should be, rather than an alternative to Limbo when you want to troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
----Fenrir---- Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) Don't touch what isn't broken. Loki's set is one of the best and he is useful in any mission type. There are a lot of frames that almost no one plays with mostly useless or outdated skills. Loki is not one of them. Passive: Trickster’s Gambit Loki can always perform finishers from behind. Hell no! Finishers are really annoying and pointless for anything but really high level enemies. Nothing worse than coming up behind a huge group of trash mods ready to slaughter them all with your melee weapon in 2 or 3 hits only to watch your warframe start a slow single target finisher! Edited February 17, 2016 by ----Fenrir---- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now