Bullet Jump? Really?

[(PSN)ShiroPhyla]

I was never interested in Warframe pvp, but finally decided to give it a try one day (happened to be after parkour 2.0) and my oh my, this is what makes me think that the devs dont play the game. There is no way that -everyone- who works at Digital Extremes could miss the blatant brokenness of unlimited bullet jump in every direction spam in pvp. Bullet jump is abused to no end, simply prolonging matches needlessly. 

Not to mention that i saw an ember cast World on Fire and just abuse bullet jump flying around 2 enemies untill they were dead. 

Edited February 25, 2016 by (PS4)ShiroPhyla

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

How is it broken exactly?

[Cyborg-Rox]

This is why overall movement and mobility is set to 0.9 by default on every Warframe in PvP.

Also, you think hitting someone bullet-jumping everywhere is hard? Try hitting someone while bulletjumping everywhere.

Yeah, there's a trade-off.

[AEP8FlyBoy]

Yeah, there may need to be a limit set on the amount of bullet jumps you can use per minute or so... Or just a small cooldown after each one. Like 5 seconds or so...

Nothing big is needed, but I do understand you when you say it is annoying... Because it totally is.

[Nighttide77]

Well...this isn't the first thread asking for things to be slowed down...as there were also threads asking things to be sped up and normalized across the board...

[rockscl]

bullet jump is broken please remove it and allow only latron prime

 

Spoiler

nah its fine, this is the best patch mobility wise

 

Edited February 25, 2016 by rockscl

[Loxyen]

I know what you mean, but it has gotten way better then it was some months before. The mobility is pretty good actually. Evenso I haven't seen any bulletjump macro user around lately. (pc)

[Phasedragon]

If controllers can't

7 hours ago, Cyborg-Rox said:

This is why overall movement and mobility is set to 0.9 by default on every Warframe in PvP.

Also, you think hitting someone bullet-jumping everywhere is hard? Try hitting someone while bulletjumping everywhere.

Yeah, there's a trade-off.

Well, you can get up to 1.2 mobility if you use frames that are squishy, a mod that makes you even more squishy, and a mod that lowers your max energy to 50 so you can't rely on powers much at all anymore. With these mods, you have to rely on your weapons alone and if someone does manage to hit you, it won't take long.

 

Another thing to keep in mind is that OP is from PS4, which has difficulties with aiming on controllers. This might sound rude, but removing/slowing down the one thing that makes this game so unique because controllers can't keep up is ridiculous. Even then, there are a few people who can keep up even with controllers and on PC, USoulz being one of them.

Edited February 26, 2016 by Phasedragon

[Lordricker]

2 hours ago, AEP8FlyBoy said:

Or just a small cooldown after each one. Like 5 seconds or so...

small cooldown of 5 seconds!? that would feel like an eternity

[AEP8FlyBoy]

16 hours ago, Lordricker said:

small cooldown of 5 seconds!? that would feel like an eternity

Like I said... just throwing ideas around. :D

[(PSN)Musashi_Orboro]

Bullet Jump is Broken? Really?

Warframe's PVP is a fair bit different from the PVE. players aren't going to just stand around and let you blast them. They tend to fight back.

I'm sorry, but if you can't hit someone who is spamming bullet jump in conclave, then I feel really bad for you. Players that just bounce around the whole time tend to be the easiest kills.

Edited February 26, 2016 by (PS4)Musashi_Orboro

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

On 2/25/2016 at 2:43 PM, (PS4)ShiroPhyla said:

I was never interested in Warframe pvp, but finally decided to give it a try one day (happened to be after parkour 2.0) and my oh my, this is what makes me think that the devs dont play the game. There is no way that -everyone- who works at Digital Extremes could miss the blatant brokenness of unlimited bullet jump in every direction spam in pvp. Bullet jump is abused to no end, simply prolonging matches needlessly. 

Not to mention that i saw an ember cast World on Fire and just abuse bullet jump flying around 2 enemies untill they were dead. 

Yup bullet jump will be the reason why this won't get any popular than it already is. It's not fun chasing anyone down.

[Zerga-08]

15 minutes ago, (PS4)AllOrNothinDays said:

Yup bullet jump will be the reason why this won't get any popular than it already is. It's not fun chasing anyone down.

Right, you should just stare at them and have them die, rather than work for your kill. :v

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

14 minutes ago, Zerga-08 said:

Right, you should just stare at them and have them die, rather than work for your kill. :v

It's one thing you go back and forth, entirely another to wittle someone down and watch them bullet jump around when the tools at their disposal make it more than possible to engage then flee and actually encourage this behavior. I've seen this go on repeatedly and it's not fun getting someone down and having to then chase after them where you're more likely to get tunnel vision and picked off.

 

If you enjoy that kind of play, that's fine. I don't. 

[Lordricker]

On 2/27/2016 at 8:20 PM, (PS4)AllOrNothinDays said:

It's one thing you go back and forth, entirely another to wittle someone down and watch them bullet jump around when the tools at their disposal make it more than possible to engage then flee and actually encourage this behavior. I've seen this go on repeatedly and it's not fun getting someone down and having to then chase after them where you're more likely to get tunnel vision and picked off.

 

If you enjoy that kind of play, that's fine. I don't. 

 

Sounds like you are having trouble finishing people

I know this may sound weird but im comparing LoL with warframe for a sec.

when i started LoL i had the most difficult time with excatly what you said here, you engage, they get low hp then run and you cant catch them. Well thats part of the learning curve figuring out how to kill them when they are at low hp or figuring out how to finish them off before they realize they are in trouble.

Same applies to warframe, if you are always stuck chasing someone around the map then try a different strategy to prevent such long chases

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

4 hours ago, Lordricker said:

 

Sounds like you are having trouble finishing people

I know this may sound weird but im comparing LoL with warframe for a sec.

when i started LoL i had the most difficult time with excatly what you said here, you engage, they get low hp then run and you cant catch them. Well thats part of the learning curve figuring out how to kill them when they are at low hp or figuring out how to finish them off before they realize they are in trouble.

Same applies to warframe, if you are always stuck chasing someone around the map then try a different strategy to prevent such long chases

That's not my trouble. My problem is the game encourages/rewards you for using this sort of mobility that just doesn't work in these sort of games because it requires skill a very small group of people can take to rather easily. Otherwise there would be tons of games like this out there. On top of that, I'm talking about playing this game with a controller as I play it on the PS4, I imagine the experience is totally different if I had a mouse. 

Take Capture the Cephalon for example. Matches are reduced to people grabbing it and running around the map until both sides are doing it and chasing someone isn't fun for me at least.

One of their big problems is the engine wasn't built for pvp in mind and it also has to deal with both console and pc. 

[-InV-igo95862]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)AllOrNothinDays said:

 

Take Capture the Cephalon for example. Matches are reduced to people grabbing it and running around the map until both sides are doing it and chasing someone isn't fun for me at least.

 

That's not a problem of mobility but the mode itself.

[Nighttide77]

35 minutes ago, (PS4)AllOrNothinDays said:

That's not my trouble. My problem is the game encourages/rewards you for using this sort of mobility that just doesn't work in these sort of games because it requires skill a very small group of people can take to rather easily. Otherwise there would be tons of games like this out there. On top of that, I'm talking about playing this game with a controller as I play it on the PS4, I imagine the experience is totally different if I had a mouse.

Soz...because WF PvP requires a skill set unlike in other more popular games, it should be toned down to be more like other games? Personally, I see the mobility as a feature, not a downside. Some enjoy CoD, some enjoy CS:GO, others TF2. Each has a different flavor, and if you don't like that one flavor, you can try another...like an ice cream shop with generous sampling.

Of course saying a double chocolate fudge ice cream can use a little less chocolate is up to the customer.

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

12 minutes ago, -cS-Nighttide77 said:

Soz...because WF PvP requires a skill set unlike in other more popular games, it should be toned down to be more like other games? Personally, I see the mobility as a feature, not a downside. Some enjoy CoD, some enjoy CS:GO, others TF2. Each has a different flavor, and if you don't like that one flavor, you can try another...like an ice cream shop with generous sampling.

Of course saying a double chocolate fudge ice cream can use a little less chocolate is up to the customer.

There's a reason popular games work the way they do, why they don't have a lot of games with this sort of speed and agility because only a handful of people are able to play them. It becomes a downside when you're only playing against the same handful of people/can't find any matches because said handful of people aren't on.

As for your line about how it is up to the customer, what happens if you don't have any customers or hardly any to even justify continuing to work on this mode in the first place? There's a reason not a lot of people play the pvp in this game. 

[Naftal]

We need more mobility, not less. After reducing the max mobility by 0.4 from 18.3 the game has been so damn slow.

[Nighttide77]

32 minutes ago, (PS4)AllOrNothinDays said:

There's a reason popular games work the way they do, why they don't have a lot of games with this sort of speed and agility because only a handful of people are able to play them. It becomes a downside when you're only playing against the same handful of people/can't find any matches because said handful of people aren't on.

As for your line about how it is up to the customer, what happens if you don't have any customers or hardly any to even justify continuing to work on this mode in the first place? There's a reason not a lot of people play the pvp in this game. 

I think the general reason why Warframe players don't do WF PvP is because they don't believe "a PvE game should have PvP" and that PvP in general is cancerous and a well of vileness.

We've had more than plenty of such players express that opinion here and other parts of the forum.

In my experience, I keep finding many different players to play against. There are a few names here and there that are common and others that stand out, but I usually find new names very often. I wouldn't say that the number of players playing or trying WF PvP is lacking, but only growing as more improvements are made to make it enjoyable.

As well, the extra movement is choice, and players whom take advantage of moving a lot also generally suffer in accuracy. Unlike some high mobility players, I've been experimenting with high EHP setups across the board and focusing on shooting more than double jumping. Unless I'm going up against highly skilled players, I'm finding that the high mobility greatly negatively impacts their aim. Mobility as a playstyle choice is nice, rather than the game telling you how best to play.

DE's business practice wouldn't invest funds into a mode or anything that doesn't have enough demand. Long before PvP 2.0 there was plenty of interest in PvP to even go so far as to create Dark Sectors before all the exploits and imbalance were ironed out. There have also been plenty of mobility changes since 2.0 that DE can see how the general population responds to varying levels of mobility, including stats on frames most commonly used. I'm pretty sure if DE believed the game needed to be less mobile they would have data to support that decision and subsequently act upon it.

Edited February 28, 2016 by -cS-Nighttide77

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

15 minutes ago, -cS-Nighttide77 said:

I'm pretty sure if DE believed the game needed to be less mobile they would have data to support that decision and subsequently act upon it.

I couldn't disagree with that more since even they don't appear to know what direction they want to go with the changes they've made. All you have to do is look at how balanced some frame abilities are. Clearly DE employees at some point or still even do think Oberon's ultimate makes perfect sense to have in a game like this and that's the sort of judgement you're working with here.

[Nighttide77]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)AllOrNothinDays said:

I couldn't disagree with that more since even they don't appear to know what direction they want to go with the changes they've made. All you have to do is look at how balanced some frame abilities are. Clearly DE employees at some point or still even do think Oberon's ultimate makes perfect sense to have in a game like this and that's the sort of judgement you're working with here.

Balance is a continuous work in progress, and the PvP is still in quite some development. We are still without a couple frames, and tons of weapons. If DE wanted, they could decrease the damage of Oberon's ult and made it more for utility than what it is, now. I'm sure there is some reasoning behind it, and/or they'll be getting around to it, as they have addressed other things over time like with Ember's ult.

If you aren't confident in the PvP team then that's how you feel, and maybe others feel the same. That doesn't mean that the team doesn't have a vision or set goals for further growth. Since Warframe is primarily a PvE game, tho, I am pretty sure balance changes and the full vision for PvP will not come as fast as most people would desire.

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

7 hours ago, -cS-Nighttide77 said:

Balance is a continuous work in progress, and the PvP is still in quite some development. We are still without a couple frames, and tons of weapons. If DE wanted, they could decrease the damage of Oberon's ult and made it more for utility than what it is, now. I'm sure there is some reasoning behind it, and/or they'll be getting around to it, as they have addressed other things over time like with Ember's ult.

As a player of PVP. Do you even need to see Oberon use that move more than once to know it doesn't work in this sort of game?

[Lordricker]

Actually its pretty clear what the devs are trying to do. They are trying to add all the weapons and frame into pvp. I believe that has been mentioned a few times. Unfortunatly this makes the balancing process rather difficult.

Also id say that the mechanics of pvp have less to do with pvp popularity than the problems peer to peer connections cause. If a brand new player joins a match and has 5 host migrations then are disconnected then i doubt they will have much interest in trying another match 

CtC is a very broken game mode, the whole point is to run from people so if thats what your playing then i understand your annoyance with mobility bu the other game modes you will lose if you play like that.