Now that there's (MORE!) timetraveling, can we travel back in time and kill "Lotus"? Specters of Rails Updated

[(PSN)spotscat]

I too think we should put the tenno inside the frames.

[BornWithTeeth]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)spotscat said:

I too think we should put the tenno inside the frames.

Ok.

 

Do you think that this would improve gameplay, or do imagine it having no change on mission by mission gameplay?

Do you think it should have a mechanical effect on how the game works?

 

Are your reasons based on lore (i.e. "I think that the Tenno would be more powerful if they were physically inside the Warframes, as being physically present would allow them to deploy their Void powers to far greater effect than before,") or would you rather the Tenno be inside the 'frames because that would just be cooler to you?

[(PSN)spotscat]

Just now, BornWithTeeth said:

Ok.

 

Do you think that this would improve gameplay, or do imagine it having no change on mission by mission gameplay?

Do you think it should have a mechanical effect on how the game works?

 

Are your reasons based on lore (i.e. "I think that the Tenno would be more powerful if they were physically inside the Warframes, as being physically present would allow them to deploy their Void powers to far greater effect than before,") or would you rather the Tenno be inside the 'frames because that would just be cooler to you?

It just kinda made the game less exciting for me :/. Like when I died before in missions then came back it seemed like I was some sort of immortal divine being. Now all the frames are just puppets, going down doesn't really matter and it makes no sense to me that you can just pop out of the frame mid mission when "you" are actually in the liset. I don't really need a mechanical reason it just kinda broke immersion and disappointed me when I found out all my frames were puppets. 

[Littlerift]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)spotscat said:

I too think we should put the tenno inside the frames.

The Tenno are a finite resource, there were only perhaps a few hundred found on the Zariman and it's very likely that some have died since then. If the Tenno were in the Warframe then they would already be extinct.

The truth is that the Tenno have never been inside the Warframe, and that there has never really been anything that implies that the Tenno were inside the Warframe. The fact that Ordis refers to the Warframe and the Operator separately, the fact that one Tenno can control multiple types of Warframe, the fact that there are many of each type of Warframe in the universe, etc. The only thing I can remember that was a red herring is the Ascaris device and Lotus stating that it's too close to your spine to remove while it's active. However, that can easily be explained as the Lotus deliberately misleading the Tenno, as she later states that the realisation of what he is drove the Stalker insane.

[(PSN)spotscat]

1 minute ago, Attley said:

The Tenno are a finite resource, there were only perhaps a few hundred found on the Zariman and it's very likely that some have died since then. If the Tenno were in the Warframe then they would already be extinct.

The truth is that the Tenno have never been inside the Warframe, and that there has never really been anything that implies that the Tenno were inside the Warframe. The fact that Ordis refers to the Warframe and the Operator separately, the fact that one Tenno can control multiple types of Warframe, the fact that there are many of each type of Warframe in the universe, etc. The only thing I can remember that was a red herring is the Ascaris device and Lotus stating that it's too close to your spine to remove while it's active. However, that can easily be explained as the Lotus deliberately misleading the Tenno, as she later states that the realisation of what he is drove the Stalker insane.

Yeah sure but it still kinda made it lame for me. If there was a mission to kill your operator but keep the whole school abilities as just passives I wouldn't even hesitate.

[DeathMavrik]

16 hours ago, RevivedEdgeLord said:

Kill "Lotus"?

I will ready the red hot promethium bath so we may wash away this heresy 

For the Em...err....lotus 

Edited March 1, 2016 by DeathMavrik

[BornWithTeeth]

19 minutes ago, Attley said:

The Tenno are a finite resource, there were only perhaps a few hundred found on the Zariman and it's very likely that some have died since then. If the Tenno were in the Warframe then they would already be extinct.

 

It's probably more like several thousand though. There were, and are, enough Tenno to form multiple clans, found multiple Great Schools, and have thriving artificers with their own design culture (re: Boar, Boar Prime, Dragon Nikana, etc.)

[Littlerift]

24 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

It's probably more like several thousand though. There were, and are, enough Tenno to form multiple clans, found multiple Great Schools, and have thriving artificers with their own design culture (re: Boar, Boar Prime, Dragon Nikana, etc.)

 

I still don't see 1000 Tenno surviving the Old War if they're in their Warframe. Mirage was undoubtedly one of the most powerful Tenno of all - her standard model's lore involves her destroying a fleet on Sentients while Rhino Prime was captured by two Orokin after going on a rampage, and Mag Prime ran headlong into a gunline and presumably died, and yet she still died in the end. 

And given that the Tenno were the Orokin's ultimate weapon it's not surprising that they heavily invested in them.

 

P.s. how the hell do you delete a quote box in the new forums?

Edited March 1, 2016 by Attley

[Mak_Gohae]

16 hours ago, Kontrollo said:

This is clearly not a time machine, but rather alternate versions of the same structures. Know the difference, be enlightened.

 

Tough luck I guess, but the Lotus is here to stay.

Never said anything about time machines and the page doesnt say anything about alternate versions but different timelines.

So, im not the one that should be enlightened, here.

16 hours ago, YasaiTsume said:

I think the way the Time Bubbles work is that they "warp" the player into another dimension where the Moon Base was not yet damaged.

Then maybe when the Time Bubbles wear off, they force the player back into their current dimension.

I think of it like.... taking a deep breath and going underwater for a minute. 

And people can start studying this and looking for ways to use them.

16 hours ago, firelordzx5 said:

Kill the Lotus, Kill the Tenno, the Sentients wins in the end or if not,

 

Kill the "lotus" and all that happens is that you kill the "lotus".

Do remember that the Orokin won the war against the Sentients and that's why they had to switch to spy tactics.

If some one goes back in time and reveals all the spy games that means the Sentients would be completely wiped out from the solar system.

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the Tenno can't rule. they are warriors for a porpuse, if the tenno rules, then war sparks between clans and everything else is caught in between, we'll end worse than the grineers or even the corpus or infested

Good, so there would actually be a conflict that would be the excuse of us doing missions.

We would be the only "good" tennos left trying to bring back the glory days. Fighting against the technology Torpus clan and cares mostly about money, and against the heavily militaristic Trineer clan.

 

Quote

DE never suggeted that the Tenno were INSIDE the frame, we just interpreted it that way. :P

16 hours ago, motorfirebox said:

Replace "always" with "never" and you've got it exactly right!

OMG, people are already this deep in the revisionist history, here?

WOW!

At all points up until the cosmetic dumps were added, DE made it clear that Warframes were armor you wore. This is the reason why they were saying this was going to drive some people nuts.

The very first dev diary calls them exo-suit, power suit, please. Nova was originally a frame recently created by that ended up being edited out. I guess now we know why, because if she was new then the Tenno would know they are not inside.

Like i said in a previous post, the option for you to keep your gamer kids would be available, some sort of time displacement, whatever, but let's not go this far and say that DE always knew and never game you the idea of what warframes are.

I mean, the freaking NAME OF THE GAME!

That's the best part in all of this.

 

 

[BornWithTeeth]

2 minutes ago, Attley said:

 

I still don't see 1000 Tenno surviving the Old War if they're in their Warframe. Mirage was undoubtedly one of the most powerful Tenno of all - her standard model's lore involves her destroying a fleet on Sentients while Rhino Prime was captured by two Orokin after going on a rampage, and Mag Prime ran headlong into a gunline and presumably died, and yet she still died in the end. 

And given that the Tenno were the Orokin's ultimate weapon it's not surprising that they heavily invested in them.

 

P.s. how the hell do you delete a quote box in the new forums?

Hit Ctrl and right click to get options for deleting quote boxes.

 

 

Also, I'm firmly on the side of the way things are. I don't think the Tenno were ever inside the 'frames, nor should they be in the future.

[SilentCircle]

17 hours ago, Magneu said:

Why do people keep hating on the Lotus??

Because she's insane?

She couldn't get children on her own any longer so she decided to make entire Tenno "race" her children. Then she wiped their memory so they wouldn't know any better. That's psycho stuff in my book.

[Littlerift]

17 minutes ago, Mak_Gohae said:

OMG, people are already this deep in the revisionist history, here?

WOW!

At all points up until the cosmetic dumps were added, DE made it clear that Warframes were armor you wore. This is the reason why they were saying this was going to drive some people nuts.

The very first dev diary calls them exo-suit, power suit, please. Nova was originally a frame recently created by that ended up being edited out. I guess now we know why, because if she was new then the Tenno would know they are not inside.

Like i said in a previous post, the option for you to keep your gamer kids would be available, some sort of time displacement, whatever, but let's not go this far and say that DE always knew and never game you the idea of what warframes are.

I mean, the freaking NAME OF THE GAME!

That's the best part in all of this.

 

Back then there wasn't really any lore, and nothing he says there is actually wrong. The Warframe is an exosuit, it's just not worn by the Operator but by something else. 

 

This is what I don't understand about the 'I want to play as the Warframe not the Operator' crowd. You do play as the Warframe, nothing about the gameplay has changed at all, all that has changed is that we now know that the Warframes are not fully independent and rely on the Operator for much of (but not all) of their motions. My assumption as to why they decided to distinguish between the Operator and the Warframe is partly to explain how one Tenno can be multiple different frames with different body-types and sexes, and also to embellish the Samurai-esque feel of the Tenno with the implication that certain Warframes are more akin to Ronin. Stalker, for example, would seem to be a Warframe that discovered the truth about itself and went awol on its Operator.

 

And as for Nova, the reason we have newer and older Warframes is because the Orokin were constantly searching for new ways to use the Void powers of the Tenno to fight the ancients. The Tenno don't have specific abilities, each Warframe doesn't match a single Tenno, instead the Tenno have a rather ambiguous set of powers concerning the Void and the Warframes are designed to channel those powers in specific ways - the earliest Warframes all built on powers the Tenno naturally exhibited (read Ember Prime's Codex) and the newer ones are built more to fulfil specific roles rather than enhance what the Tenno can already do.

[Eidolon_Slayer]

1 hour ago, DeathMavrik said:

I will ready the red hot promethium bath so we may wash away this heresy 

For the Em...err....lotus 

For the Empress Lotus.

[MagPrime]

3 hours ago, (PS4)gamerpie12 said:

Besides you dont want to get stuck in that big ball of wibbely-wobbely timey-wimmy stuff right?

 

But yeah OP, you seem to have taken the concept of changing rooms and maybe added on a bit too many hopes...  Even if it was time travel it is only "void" related time travel and only affects objects sent there, and only small rooms at that.  Last I checked most of the solar system hasn't been to the void.

I'm okay with being stuck there if David Tennant is with me. :X

[Noioiy]

Why do you wanna kill Lotus?

 

If you go back in time and kill lotus you're changing the future too. No lotus = no one there to wake you up from the cryosleep.

 

Don't think that's a bad idea?

[folklore504]

2 hours ago, DeathMavrik said:

I will ready the red hot promethium bath so we may wash away this heresy 

For the Em...err....lotus 

For once servants of the Corpse God, we have mutual interest in protecting the Lotus.  Grandfather nurgle would be quite sad if the lotus died. 

[Plushy]

Do I get free noggles for it? If not then I don't feel like it. 

[(PSN)Lowk721]

1 hour ago, SilentCircle said:

She couldn't get children on her own any longer so she decided to make entire Tenno "race" her children. Then she wiped their memory so they wouldn't know any better. That's psycho stuff in my book.

Pretty sure that was either the second dream the apparently Margulis put them into or an effect of cryosleep. If she was the one who wiped there memory when they remembered after being awoken they probably would have said something.

Also she is a perfect fit for the Tenno, who else but an insane person would stand by a race murderous mutants?

[AcceI]

I'm all for any ideas that rids me of the second dream scenario, Lotus, and that damn Ordis that's on my ship.

[Mak_Gohae]

20 hours ago, Drasiel said:

No lotus, no sentients, no space kids, old empire run by the elite warrior class... this idea tastes suspiciously of Rome and it's praetorian guards. That ended well right?

What does actual events have to do with fictional ones?

Quote

From a story perspective I much prefer where this one is wandering. I rather like the twists this game has taken on the classic "dude in super suit" space odyssey. As far as "as de always suggested" all the current in game lore can actually be taken both ways. Which is either a lucky coincidence or surprisingly good pre planning.

Please, you think these people that have retcon several things for 3 years kept on suggesting you wear the frame covering up the kids? Come on, Sheldon would've spoiled it a long time ago.

 

20 hours ago, Attley said:

I'm afraid this idea has to go in the bin marked 'stupidest ideas in history'; without the Lotus the Sentients would have wiped out the Tenno and would currently dominate the Origin System.

The Orokin won the war against the sentients. Where do you get the idea that the Sentients would win if the Tenno dont have the "Lotus"?

20 hours ago, Kao-Snake said:

You know? At this point, I believe this gif applies to this idea.

 

Yes, i would like to beat "Lotus" with my Ex prime and a skana like this gif shows.

20 hours ago, (PS4)Lowk721 said:

Lotus isn't in charge. She hasn't been since she had to wake the Tenno up. She's a guide, informant, and organizer. Think of her more like your publicist. She tells you current events and introduces you to some people you might want to work with. Most of it tends to be optional.

 

A "guide" telling us to kill politicians, doctors, and archaeologist.

[BornWithTeeth]

3 minutes ago, Mak_Gohae said:

 

A "guide" telling us to kill politicians, doctors, and archaeologist.

The Lotus doesn't actually force you to do anything. At all. In any way. At. All.

 

If you wanted to log into Warframe and just kick about in your Clan Dojo, enjoying the gardens or the obstacle course, or staring into the blissful tranqulity of spess from the Observatory, you could. Or you could go and have fun in the Conclave in the Relays. Or you can perform Spy, Deception, or Sabotage missions without hurting anyone by performing them with perfect stealth. 

 

Please indicate exactly how the Lotus forces you to do anything.

[Littlerift]

6 minutes ago, Mak_Gohae said:

The Orokin won the war against the sentients. Where do you get the idea that the Sentients would win if the Tenno dont have the "Lotus"?

 

The Tenno managed to defend the Origin System from a single Sentient attack, with the support of billions of Dax Soldiers (whatever they are). They then subsequently, due to manipulation by a Sentient, slaughtered the upper echelons of Orokin society and caused the downfall of the empire.

Now, it depends when you go back and kill the Lotus, but all of them are bad.

 

- If you somehow kill her before she arrives in the Origin system then the Sentients would simply said another infiltrator, and it's very unlikely that the next infiltrator would have had the same turn of heart Natah had. Thus, the Tenno all commit seppuku and the Sentients take over the system.

- If you kill her after she has encouraged the Tenno to kill the Orokin but before she hides the Reservoir then when Hunhow was awakened he would have been able to destroy the Reservoir with all of the Operators inside and thus destroyed the Tenno. The Tenno wouldn't have been able to defend it even if they had all been awake, as Hunhow could easily have signalled to the Tau system and then just waited for another wave of Sentient fleets that, without the Orokin's billions of disposable soldiers, the Tenno would not have been able to defeat. 

 

And so your only hope is to kill her after she has hidden the Reservoir but before she has placed the Warframes in cryosleep, and frankly if you do that then you're just living on borrowed time until the Sentients send another wave of attackers who can overwhelm the Tenno. Currently, if the Sentients do send another wave to finish the Old War (if Hunhow decides to act rationally and stop trying to get revenge against Natah) then the only hope the Tenno have of surviving is in the Lotus's intimate knowledge of the Sentients.

[Eidolon_Slayer]

22 hours ago, JesterTheNight said:

You kill Lotus, you kill all of us, we were saved by her.

Not quite, but I know what you'd do to her.  ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[(PSN)Lowk721]

33 minutes ago, Mak_Gohae said:

A "guide" telling us to kill politicians, doctors, and archaeologist.

The same people who either help or try themselves to enslave, dissect, vivisect, and straight up just murder Tenno. I wonder why the person whose very existence is pretty much defined by the Tenno would offer those suggestions. 

[Toppien]

On 29/2/2016 at 5:03 PM, RevivedEdgeLord said:

Kill "Lotus"?

 

KILL ALL THE SENTIENT!!

KILL NATAH!!